Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

[Jim2109]

i played indoor again last night, and actually got a bowl this time. one over near the end in a game that we were pretty much set to lose, but better than nothing. for some reason the captain of the league indoor side never bowls me, i think maybe he underestimated my bowling, especially as hes never seen me bowl in a match.

anyhow, last week i got fed up of not getting a bowl and just making up the numbers, especially after he ran me out first ball when i came in to bat lol. so i said this week i would only play if i got a bowl. we are rooted to the bottom of the table having lost every game, and are completely outclassed in our league. so it makes no difference whether i bowl badly or not, because we are almost certain to lose either way lol.

so i got my over. they needed about 16 runs to win off of 2 overs, with probably their 2 best bats at the crease (both had retired and come back in) with 2 or 3 wickets in hand. first ball ripped and got sliced to point who almost took the catch, it was a good effort but he couldnt hold it, stopped any runs though. next ball was a dot. then i think they hit a single. then i got no balled for a ball that crossed the no ball line by about 6", it was a total joke. i told the umpire what i thought about it. and in the end that incorrect no ball probably cost us the match! then i think i went for 3 runs off the last ball. i didnt bother looking at my figures, but i think i went for about 9 runs. which indoors is a good over. they needed 9.67 runs per over to win the match. then we lost with 2 balls left in the last over, so that incorrect no ball was very costly!

at least my bowling was solid, and the captain said so. im playing again next week (ive got 3 matches back to back on sunday night, then a league game on monday night lol) and i reckon theres a good chance il get 3 overs this time!

the game on after ours had a leggie playing. i saw him bowling warm up deliveries before their fielding innings and he was turning the ball massively. so i hung around and watched. he was playing against the best team in the league, all of their players play ECB premier league, so theyre pretty good! he got a wicket with his first ball (the best batsman no less!!), and caused problems pretty much every delivery. i think he ended up with 2 or 3 wickets and they won the match easily, and batsmen were edging him all over the place. it was pretty impressive stuff, but he didnt look like he gave the ball that much of a rip by comparison to my own action. it makes me wonder sometimes how i can have days where i just cant turn the ball much, yet this guy turned it every delivery. i need some slow motion video to see whats happening out of the hand, because theres got to be something going on in matches. when i warmed up prior to the match i was turning the ball huge! but i was also bowling with a lot more energy, so i think maybe i ease off too much in matches for fear of bowling a bad ball.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Yips and Rollers? The bloke not ripping it may have been a Roller rather than a ripper?

 

[GoldenArm]

Yips and Rollers? The bloke not ripping it may have been a Roller rather than a ripper?

Yips! i think this is a very very common cause of bad match bowling. its not exactly full blown yips of course, but a very mild form of it which can you can only be rid of by having total confidence in what you are doing. hard to achieve but not impossible. much harder for us at our age without the precociousness of youth. its not even a case necessarily of practising non stop. obviously you have to do that for a long while to get good enough in the first place and then retain that level but mostly I think its just about relaxing and enjoying the cricket without putting too much pressure on yourself, but at the same time you need to retain that focus and desire to win and to do well. I believe bruce lee called it emotion content in Enter The Dragon! one for the movie buffs or you can just chant this maxim to yourself: WWKMD what would Keith Miller do!

 

[chippyben]

haha sorry, i didnt mean to be so critical lol. a few of the leg breaks looked very good. one of the videos i noticed that you dropped a little short, and the wrong'uns are the wrong line, but youve only just acquired that delivery so pinpoint accuracy probably isnt high on the priority list at present. the backspinner length just jumped out at me straight away, and i know from experience how it gets punished if you drop it short. and since youre mid-season thats quite a relevant point, as you might use one of those deliveries in a match sometime soon. i still drag mine short quite a lot if i get the delivery all wrong, but as long as you aim to flight it youll get it somewhere close when it comes out right.

i dont know if those white circles on the pitch are markers, or just leaves or marks on the ground, but it looks like landing the ball in and around those marks is probably about the right length for your bowling. when you land it there on a leg stump line and turn it past off stump that is going to cause batsmen no end of trouble.

can you upload one of the videos in realtime instead of slow motion? would be interesting to get an idea of your pace from a batsmans perspective. i quite like the behind-the-stumps video angle, its not something ive done with my own bowling yet. next time im up the nets il have a camera behind the stumps as well getting a batsmans perspective. i might even get a batsman to wear one on his helmet, that would be even better!!!

Those white spots are leaves but were about 9 feet from the stumps. Ive changed to trying to land it 11 feet from the stumps now. I was 12 feet before but landing a foot or two shorter than that a lot of the time. I noticed that bowling on a wet pitch and it was like a pitch map. I'm sure on turf its fuller still because of the lack of pace and bounce. Pace makes a big difference too as I was taking it pretty steady off 2 paces in those vids.
Im really only concentrating on my leg breaks and just had a bit of fun with those vids. Its very satisfying to get the wrongun turning though!

 

[chippyben]

Yips! i think this is a very very common cause of bad match bowling. its not exactly full blown yips of course, but a very mild form of it which can you can only be rid of by having total confidence in what you are doing. hard to achieve but not impossible. much harder for us at our age without the precociousness of youth. its not even a case necessarily of practising non stop. obviously you have to do that for a long while to get good enough in the first place and then retain that level but mostly I think its just about relaxing and enjoying the cricket without putting too much pressure on yourself, but at the same time you need to retain that focus and desire to win and to do well. I believe bruce lee called it emotion content in Enter The Dragon! one for the movie buffs or you can just chant this maxim to yourself: WWKMD what would Keith Miller do!

The two times I have bowled in a match I havent bowled it with anywhere near the same power I do at training. I got very nervous and it just seizes up the action. Very frustrating.

 

[chippyben]

Pretty hard for a spin bowler to develop much in junior cricket without constant work because you just dont get enough overs compared to batsmen and wicketkeepers who get many times more overs to work on skills. Pace bowlers get a few more overs as well, first crack, and a ball that suits.

If coaches and captains and other parents want to have a specialist spinner in the team that kid needs to get as many overs as possible. The policy of everbody gets a go is fine, but you dont split the wicket keeping or batting up equally by the over so why the bowling?

As the season goes on and batsmen get plenty of match practise it is no wonder so many kids pack it in as far as spin goes. You are on a hiding to nothing.

The last couple of weeks the opposition leggies have had shockers. In the first round they looked really good but they both bowled terrible 2nd time around. You have to get at least the first couple right or you are in big trouble. They obviously have not been bowling much other then in games and you might as well give up.

Sounds like your a bit frustrated at things Macca. The bowler with the best figures and most chance of getting wickets in our team is an offie but he often only gets a bowl 3rd change after some pretty mediocre medium pacers. Ive come to accept I'll have to bowl 50-100 balls in training to every 1 in a match but its pretty hard for a young bloke to keep interested doing that.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I think that's the nature of wrist spinning till you've got 4 years of it under your belt as benuad would suggests. 4 years just bowling the Leg Break should yield results and you should be able to bowl fairly well by then and get a chance each week in your club matches and hold your own producing a good strike rate. But even if you get there, you're at the mercy of your fielders as many of your wickets will probably be as a result of the fielders. You have to be pretty philosophical and have a certain temprement to be a slow bowler I reckon.

 

[shrek]

The two times I have bowled in a match I havent bowled it with anywhere near the same power I do at training. I got very nervous and it just seizes up the action. Very frustrating.

Describes exactly how I felt after being bowled the first time last season after months of practice- I was already a joke amongst my team mates (for my bowling) as they'd seen me struggle with fulltosses and long hops in practice - so I thought that if I didn't get it right, I won't be given another opportunity - I bowled a horrible over 1 ball on top of the batsmen's head called no-ball, one ball pitched in my own half, and so on,(obviously wasn't given another over in the match). But, after that incident I decided that if I was going to go down anyway, might as well do it in a blaze of glory so to speak - so even if I am bowling short, bowling full tosses, even if captain asks me to just pitch it up, I never compromised on 1) powering the action 2) putting revs on it.

Was much more successful with this approach as I at least got to bowl full spells.

 

[Jim2109]

to be fair, fast bowlers rely on fielding just as much. medium pacers even more so. it isnt the plight of a leg spinner, its the plight of any bowler in club cricket! quicks will get lots of wickets bowled or LBW (LBW is unreliable though, and not often given), but then spinners will get lots of bowled and stumped if theyre good. slip catches tend to get held more reliably than outfield catches, unless youre unlucky enough to play in a team with some decrepid old boy that fields at slip. one of the guys that fields at slip at my club is fairly old, but he takes some stunning reflex catches, just so that its clear im not being ageist lol.

if youre taking wickets regularly then youll get overs. if youre taking wickets economically then youll either open the bowling or come on first change. if youre expensive though then chances are youll only be 3rd or 4th change to try and clean up the middle order and tail if the quicks and mediums dont get the job done. which to be fair, can you really expect better in league cricket? the goal is to win games, and captains will just go with whatever they feel is best for that job. if youre not taking wickets as a leg spinner, and youre typically expensive (as most of us are), then youre always going to struggle.

of course, the number 1 most important factor is the captain. if the captain supports your bowling then youre laughing. if he doesnt like you, or your bowling, then youre less likely to get overs. and when you do, chances are youll have 9 men on the rope lol.

 

[Jim2109]

Describes exactly how I felt after being bowled the first time last season after months of practice- I was already a joke amongst my team mates (for my bowling) as they'd seen me struggle with fulltosses and long hops in practice - so I thought that if I didn't get it right, I won't be given another opportunity - I bowled a horrible over 1 ball on top of the batsmen's head called no-ball, one ball pitched in my own half, and so on,(obviously wasn't given another over in the match). But, after that incident I decided that if I was going to go down anyway, might as well do it in a blaze of glory so to speak - so even if I am bowling short, bowling full tosses, even if captain asks me to just pitch it up, I never compromised on 1) powering the action 2) putting revs on it.

Was much more successful with this approach as I at least got to bowl full spells.

i took this approach in T20 last season. its one thing to think it and another to execute it though. when im practicing im very conscious of my action, i pretty much picture myself in the 3rd person. in a match situation i have to focus on the batsmans movements pre and post shot (to either adjust my ball before hand, or to field it after), so its much harder to focus on the action itself. i think it will slot into place again by next season, at the moment im in the middle of a strength and conditioning program, at the same time as making some huge improvements in my bowling action (but im hardly getting any practice at all to condition the muscle memory, etc), and im playing indoor matches in between lol. so there is no time to settle, and thus i think i just revert to the old trusted action in matches, whereas in net practice it works much better.

 

[macca]

Sounds like your a bit frustrated at things Macca. The bowler with the best figures and most chance of getting wickets in our team is an offie but he often only gets a bowl 3rd change after some pretty mediocre medium pacers. Ive come to accept I'll have to bowl 50-100 balls in training to every 1 in a match but its pretty hard for a young bloke to keep interested doing that.

Yeah i am on the verge of some frustration. I cant see the sense in a kid scoring 86 not out and then coming on and getting as much bowling as the specialist bowlers.

 

[macca]

It is simple maths that shows how lopsided in favour of the bat our comp is. The only part of the equation that favours the young spinner is his WK and fieldsmen get plenty of practise as the season goes on. But if all you can expect is 3 overs a week whereas a good batsman can bat 20-30 overs a week if he is good enough, then you have to put in heaps of bowling work thru the season.

2 to 3 overs is a warm-up. Last year my son got lots of 5 over spells. That is when he developed a lot.

If batsmen were restricted to 3 overs batting every week it would make it fairer for the bowlers, but it would be bad for the game because batsman wouldn't develop.

The two leggies we came up against in round 2 got absolutely smashed and their bowling fell completely to pieces. Yet in the first round they were the best bowlers.

My son went for 11 runs in his two overs against last weeks opposition, in round 1 he took 2-6 off 4 overs against them. Same batsmen. It is not his bowling going backwards, we had a good session yesterday and he was turning everything and with great seam rotation, but batsmen being more inventive and being in form from spending hours at the crease in games. If you get 10-15 mins bowling a week in matches you find it harder to compete as the season goes on.

Having said that though, i know after the 6 week break and the comp resumes my son will have them in knots again, it happens every year.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Macca, Is this a limited overs version of the game? How many bowlers do you have in a team and do their overs get divvied up fairly or is it down to the choice of the captain, coaches or selectors to make who gets however many overs in a match?

Just read back a couple of pages on the thread - sounds like you're boys playing a similar version to our under 12's where everyone gets a look in with the bowling - is that right? With ours I think when they move up to the next age groups as my older son will do in April, they start to specialise and the good bowlers start to get the lions share of the bowling with the crap bowlers being coaxed into focusing on their batting abilities. Is that the case with your system?

 

[macca]

Macca, Is this a limited overs version of the game? How many bowlers do you have in a team and do their overs get divvied up fairly or is it down to the choice of the captain, coaches or selectors to make who gets however many overs in a match?

Just read back a couple of pages on the thread - sounds like you're boys playing a similar version to our under 12's where everyone gets a look in with the bowling - is that right? With ours I think when they move up to the next age groups as my older son will do in April, they start to specialise and the good bowlers start to get the lions share of the bowling with the crap bowlers being coaxed into focusing on their batting abilities. Is that the case with your system?

30/30 over. If they get promoted up to div 1 they play 50/50 every other week. At u/13 everyone has to bowl at least 1 over per full innings. But some teams give everyone 2 and give the best the leftovers. Some teams give the main bowlers 5-6 overs each. A bit of both works good.

The coach offered my son extra overs if he batted down the order every week which is something we have talked about. I will get him to take him up on that. I feel bad about bringing up overs bowled with the coach. He is doing such a great job and the way he orchestrates a win every week is incredible. I will just point out why the game is so stacked against a spin bowler if he only gets a warm-up every week compared to a batsman or WK who gets ample time to be out in the middle and practise skills in a match and then gets to bowl as much or almost as much, as the main bowlers as well.

 

[Antipodean]

Hey guys, I thought I'd chip in on this thread as I'm an aspiring leg spinner too. I've only taken it up this year but have been reading this stuff for awhile and have found it very useful, especially someblokecalleddave's wrist spin blog and his youtube channel, so cheers for that Dave!I haven't delved too much into things like hip and shoulder rotation and such yet, but on a useful surface I get truck loads of spin and at home over shorter distances too. At the nets, I don't get anywhere near as much turn (for obvious reasons), but I think I'm doing pretty well for a newbie. My usual sparring partner took some videos of my bowling tonight so will post them pretty soon and would really appreciate any feedback/advice.

Cheers.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Nice one Antipodean, good to have you on-board and thanks for the comments regarding my youtube channel and blogs. Yeah it'll be good to see your vids, so yeah get 'em posted up and we'll all have a look and no doubt chip in with some advice.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

30/30 over. If they get promoted up to div 1 they play 50/50 every other week. At u/13 everyone has to bowl at least 1 over per full innings. But some teams give everyone 2 and give the best the leftovers. Some teams give the main bowlers 5-6 overs each. A bit of both works good.

The coach offered my son extra overs if he batted down the order every week which is something we have talked about. I will get him to take him up on that. I feel bad about bringing up overs bowled with the coach. He is doing such a great job and the way he orchestrates a win every week is incredible. I will just point out why the game is so stacked against a spin bowler if he only gets a warm-up every week compared to a batsman or WK who gets ample time to be out in the middle and practise skills in a match and then gets to bowl as much or almost as much, as the main bowlers as well.

How will your boy feel about batting down the order in order that he picks up more overs - does he see himself as an all-rounder and is he quite handy with the bat?

 

[chippyben]

Hey guys, I thought I'd chip in on this thread as I'm an aspiring leg spinner too. I've only taken it up this year but have been reading this stuff for awhile and have found it very useful, especially someblokecalleddave's wrist spin blog and his youtube channel, so cheers for that Dave!I haven't delved too much into things like hip and shoulder rotation and such yet, but on a useful surface I get truck loads of spin and at home over shorter distances too. At the nets, I don't get anywhere near as much turn (for obvious reasons), but I think I'm doing pretty well for a newbie. My usual sparring partner took some videos of my bowling tonight so will post them pretty soon and would really appreciate any feedback/advice.

Cheers.

I only started a year ago too but I found this forum to be a huge help especially if you can get a few videos posted. I had no idea about rotation or any bowling technique really until I started studying my and others videos. Im still very much a novice but now at least I have a better understanding of what a good action should look like thanks to the advice here.
My learning has involved lots of trial and error and no doubt a lot more to come. Also I was going nowhere until I got serious about putting in a lot of time practicing, and I practice at least 6 hours a week now.
Good luck with it, your in the right spot for good help and advice.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Yeah - none of us are experts on here as far as I'm aware, there's a couple of Aussie blokes that have got very good in-depth knowledge and some excellent advice (Doctoran and Macca) and the rest of us have just been bowling a little longer than some of the others, so we're all learners and love to hear about other peoples experiences and see your videos as we pick up stuff as well. I reckon if you're new to it and enthusiastic about, this is a good place to stumble upon, no-one takes the P**s or slags each other off like on other sites (Youtube) so get posting!

 

[macca]

How will your boy feel about batting down the order in order that he picks up more overs - does he see himself as an all-rounder and is he quite handy with the bat?

He likes to bat anywhere from 8 down to legs 11. He has a good defense and he can play most of the shots. He is a good hooker, that and the pull are his best looking shots. But we dont put much into batting anymore other than the study of batsmanship versus legspin. Trying to size up batsmans techniques looking for backfoot/frontfoot. Tophand or bottom hand player. Closed stance/ open stance that sort of thing.