Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Had only two overs to bowl this weekend as one of our matches was rained out. In the other game, we scored 246 and the other team was shot down by our seamers - I believe it was 30/6 and then they struggled on until 45/8. But the seamers were doing all the bowling until then. But then a tailender stuck it out with one of their batsmen and I saw the skipper getting frustrated. But he didn't give me a bowl until they reached a 95. Then I got my first over. First ball a gentle loosener that turned and was called a wide. Second ball driven to cover for a single, third ball, similar delivery, but bowled with a few more revs on it and got an edge to a wide slip. that was the end of that. Then an irritating no:11 came in who wouldn't play at any delivery at all.
I tried one googly that pitched a little too far outside off to trouble him, had an lbw shout turned down on a topspinner, and I tried to fire one straight at the wicket and ended up giving 5 wides. Basically, I tried too hard and lost my plan. I composed myself enough to get back the next over with a set plan, But, with partnership broken, the other bowler cleaned up the last wicket and I had figures of 2-0-9-1.
So, three wickets in 3 games that I bowled if not for the 3 drop catches, I'd've had 6. One last game in the league stages this sunday - if we win that, we go through to play-offs in this tournament. We are already through to play offs in the other one. So, I'm looking at potentially 7 matches(optimism :)) before the season ends.

Anyway, I'm glad I've gained a little bit more of my skipper's confidence enough for him to look at me as wicket taking option. I guess the only reason I don't get bowled sooner is because he is an inherently defensive captain who looks to stem the flow of runs before he gets the wickets.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

macca;406354 said:
50 wickets eh. You've still got it gundalf. You look like you have slowed down a bit through the air since last time i checked your vids last season?

I like how you aren't afraid to give the ball some air on those clips

Have you got more runs than wickets this year?
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thanks macca, yeah i've got just about twice the runs to wickets this year, improved alot with the bat this year, though not getting any chances really to do anything, only bat if we are 100-9 or needing a stupid amount of runs per over.

Hoping to be an all rounder by a couple of years time, a bit of work on technique during the winter and should be pretty decent by next season.

Had a shocker again on sunday with 4 over for 40, when my action goes i'm really awful, could do with getting my economy rate down as well as its about 5 an over for the season(its more like 3.5-4 an over when i bowl well). Been having awful weather of late and lost the last 2 league games without a ball being bowled, should still have 6 games left this year hopefully.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I had a go in the nets tonight trying to get that back leg up and round off a negligible run-up. I didn't have the camera rolling so I don't know exactly what was going on but it felt like I was doing the right things - quite often I followed through so much I went straight into the side netting. I found I was bowling much quicker with no great loss of spin, but lacking control and couldn't get the whole action to gel. Also I seemed to be bowling very flat. Anyway, it looks a promising avenue so that'll be my starting point and then I'll gradually try to work it all together between now and the start of next season. Not sure if I'll be playing again this year, and even if I did I'd be unlikely to get a bowl.

btw, the Beau Casson video seems to have disappeared - what exactly were the drills it demonstrated?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Spiderlounge;406493 said:
I had a go in the nets tonight trying to get that back leg up and round off a negligible run-up. I didn't have the camera rolling so I don't know exactly what was going on but it felt like I was doing the right things - quite often I followed through so much I went straight into the side netting. I found I was bowling much quicker with no great loss of spin, but lacking control and couldn't get the whole action to gel. Also I seemed to be bowling very flat. Anyway, it looks a promising avenue so that'll be my starting point and then I'll gradually try to work it all together between now and the start of next season. Not sure if I'll be playing again this year, and even if I did I'd be unlikely to get a bowl.

btw, the Beau Casson video seems to have disappeared - what exactly were the drills it demonstrated?
Click to expand...

Yeah you're right, it's gone. The video was uploaded by an Aussie calling himself John F Cook. John is/was a blogger as well, but I can't seem to find his blog. If I could find his blog I'd contact him to find out why he's taken the video off and see if there was any way that he'd consider reinstating it.

I suspect though that David Freedman may have asked him to remove it because it may have been perceived as having a negative impact on his business rather than a positive one? The premise of the video was that it was promoting David Freedmans coaching business. The business model seemed to be that you video'd yourself bowling from 1 or 2 angles and then you'd send your vids to David Freedman. He'd then super-impose your video over the video of Beau Casson and edit it. He'd send you back a video with your action and Cassons compared in slow motion with commentary as to where you were going wrong and what it was that you'd need to work on. In addition it looked as though there was a load of extra footage of Casson and Freedman showing you a whole range of drills and technical things to look at, try and explore. John F Cooks clip was obvioulsy a shortened version of something that may have been 30 minutes to an hour long. But the bits that John F Cook had included in the 9 minute edited clip were in my opinion exceptionally important and of a very good standard with regards the commentary.

Maybe so good that rather than explore signing up and paying for the same service, most people that saw it like me, derived so much info from the 9 minute clip that there was no way that you'd part with your dollars or pounds for the other missing info?

I'd love to know why he has taken it down?

I may consider copying the drills that were demonstrated and make my own version as they were useful.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

i went to the local cricket centre yesterday for an indoor net session with one of the other players from my club. hes about the same age as me, probably the best all round cricketer at the club, and a pretty quick seam bowler. so we had an hour and a half with a mixture of just bowling at stumps, then bowling at each other, then 30 mins on the bowling machine to finish up with some useful batting practice (and i wanted to use it to knock my new bat in a bit before introducing it to proper cricket balls).

the importance of this being that when the other guy was batting and i was bowling at him, i bowled probably 30 balls, of which there were probably 4 or 5 not so good ones, and the rest were on the money, of which half went straight and half turned nicely!

of the 4 or 5 not so good balls, we are talking about balls that strayed marginally leg side and went straight, or were a bit wide outside off stump, or a bit short. nothing horrendous, no drag downs. and the wide ones outside off were hit straight through cover, and would probably have only been singles or 2's.

when i got the ball to turn it was doing all sorts, and i was landing it consistently on a very good length. bearing in mind this guy is also one of the best batsmen at the club with a very solid technique and excellent footwork, and in what was essentially 5 overs of bowling, probably only would have scored 10-15 runs. and i had his wicket twice.

thats the most consistent ive ever been, and i am noticably improving all the time. ive added my run up back in, its now a lot longer (more like an 8 step Warne approach), and according to my speed measuring box i was bowling at 33mph. however, it under-reads quite significantly, to the tune of 10-15% (due to angularity). so im more like 37mph in real terms out of the hand. back up where i was previously, but now im accurate and turning the ball big most of the time!

ive got full control around the loop, the only delivery i dont have is the wrong'un. my flipper is still hit or miss, it swings so much at the moment to the leg side that i have to aim it about 2 yards outside off stump to get it on target!! its ridiculous how much it moves. i reckon its because i present a perfect inswing seam angle, with tons of backspin to stabilise it, so its effectively about a 45mph (since its a bit faster) inswinger. thats faster than most of the 2nd XI fast bowlers bowl lol.

i clocked my seam bowling at 46mph on the one ball i tried for a laugh. thats about 52mph in real terms. and only 12mph slower on the speed measuring box than probably the fastest bowler at the club. if i wasnt a leggie i think id easily cut it as a swing bowler. il probably develop my action a bit more in amongst my leg spin just for fun.

ive got a home game tomorrow, so hopefully i can end the season in style with a big wicket haul. last week i could have had 5 were it not for dropped catches and missed stumpings. im due some good figures on my performances for the last few weeks, so hopefully i can finally bag 3+ stylish wickets with a decent economy.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

The back-spinning flipper (If that's what you were bowling) is an interesting ball when it swings like that. Like you I find that when it happens the amount of swing that's involved is enormous. Does it swing right through the trajectory earlier than later like a leg break?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I tried a few flippers the other night for surprisingly the first time ever. The first two went way over the top of the nets, easily the worst deliveries Ive ever bowled. But the next few actually landed on the pitch and I can now see the fascination with the delivery. I guess it was like the opposite to the ordinary leg break,i.e spinning backwards with the seam pointing to the slips. It just seems to stay up and pitch further on with a little bit of drift but also it stays really low too. Definately worth dabbling with although I doubt I'll ever be able to land it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Grimmett 12 years in the perfecting, Benaud 4 years, Shane Warne a few months as far as I'm aware. If you know it's possible and there's people out there already doing it and explaining how to do it and what was once radical is now pretty much the norm it just follows that you'll be able to do if you commit to it. Just make sure you still keep bowling your leg break in between and it wont be a problem.

But have a ball with you as much as you can and flick it from one hand to the other all the time to develop the 'Click' muscles and get a feel for how it works and it'll lose it's waywardness and you'll be hitting the line and length in a few months.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Spiderlounge;406493 said:
I had a go in the nets tonight trying to get that back leg up and round off a negligible run-up. I didn't have the camera rolling so I don't know exactly what was going on but it felt like I was doing the right things - quite often I followed through so much I went straight into the side netting. I found I was bowling much quicker with no great loss of spin, but lacking control and couldn't get the whole action to gel. Also I seemed to be bowling very flat. Anyway, it looks a promising avenue so that'll be my starting point and then I'll gradually try to work it all together between now and the start of next season. Not sure if I'll be playing again this year, and even if I did I'd be unlikely to get a bowl.

btw, the Beau Casson video seems to have disappeared - what exactly were the drills it demonstrated?
Click to expand...

Here's the Wattacoach website from which John F Cooks video derived. If you watch the 'Example lesson' you'll hear that if you sign up you'll receive advice on 3-4 drills, so I reckon John F Cook may have uploaded to youtube the whole of his video lesson maybe? Have a look at this because there's still a few bits on this intro page that are worth a look at.

Cricket Coaching Online - Example Lesson
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Jim2109;407041 said:
i went to the local cricket centre yesterday for an indoor net session with one of the other players from my club. hes about the same age as me, probably the best all round cricketer at the club, and a pretty quick seam bowler. so we had an hour and a half with a mixture of just bowling at stumps, then bowling at each other, then 30 mins on the bowling machine to finish up with some useful batting practice (and i wanted to use it to knock my new bat in a bit before introducing it to proper cricket balls).

the importance of this being that when the other guy was batting and i was bowling at him, i bowled probably 30 balls, of which there were probably 4 or 5 not so good ones, and the rest were on the money, of which half went straight and half turned nicely!

of the 4 or 5 not so good balls, we are talking about balls that strayed marginally leg side and went straight, or were a bit wide outside off stump, or a bit short. nothing horrendous, no drag downs. and the wide ones outside off were hit straight through cover, and would probably have only been singles or 2's.

when i got the ball to turn it was doing all sorts, and i was landing it consistently on a very good length. bearing in mind this guy is also one of the best batsmen at the club with a very solid technique and excellent footwork, and in what was essentially 5 overs of bowling, probably only would have scored 10-15 runs. and i had his wicket twice.

thats the most consistent ive ever been, and i am noticably improving all the time. ive added my run up back in, its now a lot longer (more like an 8 step Warne approach), and according to my speed measuring box i was bowling at 33mph. however, it under-reads quite significantly, to the tune of 10-15% (due to angularity). so im more like 37mph in real terms out of the hand. back up where i was previously, but now im accurate and turning the ball big most of the time!

ive got full control around the loop, the only delivery i dont have is the wrong'un. my flipper is still hit or miss, it swings so much at the moment to the leg side that i have to aim it about 2 yards outside off stump to get it on target!! its ridiculous how much it moves. i reckon its because i present a perfect inswing seam angle, with tons of backspin to stabilise it, so its effectively about a 45mph (since its a bit faster) inswinger. thats faster than most of the 2nd XI fast bowlers bowl lol.

i clocked my seam bowling at 46mph on the one ball i tried for a laugh. thats about 52mph in real terms. and only 12mph slower on the speed measuring box than probably the fastest bowler at the club. if i wasnt a leggie i think id easily cut it as a swing bowler. il probably develop my action a bit more in amongst my leg spin just for fun.

ive got a home game tomorrow, so hopefully i can end the season in style with a big wicket haul. last week i could have had 5 were it not for dropped catches and missed stumpings. im due some good figures on my performances for the last few weeks, so hopefully i can finally bag 3+ stylish wickets with a decent economy.
Click to expand...

that sounded like a good session at indoor, the surface on our local indoor is great for legspin, probably the same stuff you were bowling on. Did you find it died a little off the deck or did it carry through?

How did you go changing the line you were bowling? You were talking about a more off stump attack a couple of weeks ago.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

macca;407070 said:
that sounded like a good session at indoor, the surface on our local indoor is great for legspin, probably the same stuff you were bowling on. Did you find it died a little off the deck or did it carry through?

How did you go changing the line you were bowling? You were talking about a more off stump attack a couple of weeks ago.
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the surface does grip quite nicely, but its also fairly hard and bouncy. the ball certainly wasn't dying on it. its probably a lot more ideal for bowling on than real pitches, but there's still a discernible difference between a ball that lands off the seam and turns small, and ones that hit the seam and turn massively. the difference on real pitches being that the ones off-seam have a tendency to go straight on more.

my line has pretty much changed to an off-middle stump line now as well, sometimes outside off stump. it seems to be working better for now whilst i continue to search for consistency. combined with good length you can basically remove attacking shots from the batsmans options, so even if it goes straight you force defensive shots, or at worse fairly straight shots. if i had a googly it would be even better, but ive at least got my top spinner sorted now. il work on the googly over the winter, i dont think im far off figuring out what i need to do to get it.

long term i still think the leg stump and outside line is the most attacking, but youve got to be able to turn the ball very consistently to make it work, and you cant afford to bowl anything even slightly too short or wide or its very easy runs. the off stump line is more forgiving, so i can build pressure more easily, and most club batsmen have a tendency to probe at balls when they pitch on the stumps and turn away, whereas the legside line tends to turn into their legs/body more rather than go past the outside edge, so relies a lot more heavily on beating them in flight. its not that often that il rip one huge on club wickets, my average delivery will turn about a foot off a good length, so landing on middle stump with a bit of drift is perfect.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

chrisbell;407119 said:
Sounds most encouraging!:cool:
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Tomorrow at his club it's the end of season 'Fun Day' and the last chance of the year for all the younger boys to play cricket against each other, older boys and their Dads and non-cricket kids who just turn up. Because it's so informal and fun I'm hoping he might turn his Wrist over and try it out on some of them. It'l be brilliant if he does and he gets it to turn in the same way that he has been against me and that's without a seam. If he gets it to turn and he beats the bat or takes a wicket round the back of the legs which I think he could do, that'll be it I reckon, he'll be back in the fold.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I've got a really simple question but in all the coaching books and online resources I've seen I've never come across the answer:

What exactly is a braced leg?!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

I went down the nets last night and bowled absolute rubbish for an hour and a half. I get very determined when Im bowling rubbish to get back to bowling well but I think if Im not improving Im just practicing bad habits.
I was also pretty tired as I usually am after slogging away at work and I wasnt really concentrating either.
Last night I had a bit of a review of my training methods and was wondering how others train to get the best results and improvement.
I train by putting a target ball 12 foot from the stumps on middle stump. I start bowling leg breaks and trying to be rhythmical and generally keep bowling them til it starts coming out nicely (which can be a few balls or an hour!!!) Then I start going round the loop, topspinner, legbreak, big leg break bowling each one til a good one comes out then moving on. And thats about it except for maybe a few muck around balls at the end. I dont find it boring at all, in fact darkness is all that stops me each evening so its not that I need things to keep me interested its just I want things to help me improve .
I try and really remember what Im doing when Im bowling well to get a bit of a checklist for when Im bowling badly, i.e rhythm, wrist cocked, arm high, tucking elbow in etc.
I bowled very well tonight and I put it down to really visualising what I wanted to do before I bowled it.
Im not sure whether I should be bowling the big leg break in the round the loop or should just practice it purely on its own as we all know its really a different type of ball to the others and am I just confusing myself with the wrist action.
Anyway it'd be good to hear how others train and their thoughts.
 
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