Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

We still haven't heard back from the club about the gradings from the trials last week. The selector said he would inform us last week but so far nothing.

That makes me suspicous that the team he picked last sunday will have been changed somewhat by the time it is released.

It doesn't really matter to us what team we make. But you probably notice that in the early years the young legspinner will do better bowling against the better batsmen because the weaker batsmen cant even get the bat on the ball and the bounce often sees the ball jump the stumps when they miss.

I would not be too worried as long as he plays regularly and enjoys it at his age. The worst thing in my opinion and experience in coaching youth soccer is keeping them interested in what they are doing while having fun. I think at that age they should develop the basic skills as you have been patiently doing. The games should be competitive but fun,as they have to still develop physically , as you are aware any growth spurt may result in problems with their action/co-ordination. This may frustrate them, and they may quit the the sport for another. So in my humble opinion, the important thing is developing his basic skills and having fun. Good luck.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo - see if you can use this link as you're only in Malta it may be possible? There's a section about 3/4 of the way through where Simon Hughes analyses Rashid's Leg Spin in a fair bit of depth. Demand Five | watch Cricket On Five

Sadly it only works in the UK, not really fair is it? What where the general comments? I am sure they were salivating. Knowing Schofield was the last leggie, it would not surprise me. By the way, Boycott sounds pompous, but I find him one of the best analyst on the airwaves.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Next video has just gone up - this is Variation 2 - only different in that it uses 3 or 4 fingers a la Clarrie Grimmett. Not a big variation, but I never thought to consider it till I saw the first images of Grimmett sent to me by Macca. I find this gives me a lot more spin and control and had the addition of swing. YouTube - Flipper Variation No 2 Four finger version

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

We get lots of free advise in the nets from total strangers. One old bloke told us yesterday that there were only 4 things you had to know in cricket, batting or bowling and they are; Backfoot, frontfoot, legside, offside. How is that for keeping it simple?

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

By the way does anyone know the distance between the batting crease and the stumps on the opposite side. Are my calculations right at about 18.9 metres?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Sadly it only works in the UK, not really fair is it? What where the general comments? I am sure they were salivating. Knowing Schofield was the last leggie, it would not surprise me. By the way, Boycott sounds pompous, but I find him one of the best analyst on the airwaves.

Gutted! What does Hughes say?..... Well, he came across as very enthusiastic, he bowled well with good figures and slowed the run rate right down but didn't take any wickets. There was some slo mo shots of his hand - Leg Breaks, Sliders and Wrong Uns - all of which looked orthodox and as expected. His approach and delivery for me looks very odd slightly Grimmett-esque I'd say, he kind of looks bent over in the way that grimmett does, but it's smooth. Hughes was pointing out that he was accurate and not giving the bats any width. They had a impact diagram showing where all the balls landed and they were generally to the off-side as I recall with 90% landing between 4 and 5 yards short of the stumps. One slightly shorter and handful in the 3 yard zone and one right under the stumps.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

We get lots of free advise in the nets from total strangers. One old bloke told us yesterday that there were only 4 things you had to know in cricket, batting or bowling and they are; Backfoot, frontfoot, legside, offside. How is that for keeping it simple?

You mean he is simple?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

We get lots of free advise in the nets from total strangers. One old bloke told us yesterday that there were only 4 things you had to know in cricket, batting or bowling and they are; Backfoot, frontfoot, legside, offside. How is that for keeping it simple?

Was he drunk?

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Gutted! What does Hughes say?..... Well, he came across as very enthusiastic, he bowled well with good figures and slowed the run rate right down but didn't take any wickets. There was some slo mo shots of his hand - Leg Breaks, Sliders and Wrong Uns - all of which looked orthodox and as expected. His approach and delivery for me looks very odd slightly Grimmett-esque I'd say, he kind of looks bent over in the way that grimmett does, but it's smooth. Hughes was pointing out that he was accurate and not giving the bats any width. They had a impact diagram showing where all the balls landed and they were generally to the off-side as I recall with 90% landing between 4 and 5 yards short of the stumps. One slightly shorter and handful in the 3 yard zone and one right under the stumps.

Cheers, so that would make it 1 to 1.5 metres in front of the batting crease in metric? Sounds very full, no wonder it does not seem to spin, the batsman smothering all the spin. That is why I am wary to state that they do not turn it much. When we practice without a batsman, the ball has 3 further metres to get to the stumps and so the amount of turn we get is amplified. The advantages and disadvantages of having or not having a batsman.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Most of them were in the region of about 1.75 metres. Which to me seems a bit short. I'm assuming the difference between the likes of us bowling that kind of length is the speed and possibly the ramifications of being dismissed whilst your being watched by a whole nation. No doubt it's so much faster with far more pronounced dip and the ever present fact that it might turn away from the face of the bat. I know at club level if I bowled that kind of length with that kind of minimal turn off the pitch the bat would just rock back on the back foot and see that it's put over the boundary. We're always told to pitch up under their noses.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Here's the Off-spinning Flipper YouTube - Flipper Variation No 3 The Off Spinning Flipper

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim do go and watch these matches or are they covered on SKY?

covered on Sky. Essex are on again mid week, so another Kaneria display. they seem to be following the leggies lately, theres been at least one playing in about the previous 6 televised matches!!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Most of them were in the region of about 1.75 metres. Which to me seems a bit short. I'm assuming the difference between the likes of us bowling that kind of length is the speed and possibly the ramifications of being dismissed whilst your being watched by a whole nation. No doubt it's so much faster with far more pronounced dip and the ever present fact that it might turn away from the face of the bat. I know at club level if I bowled that kind of length with that kind of minimal turn off the pitch the bat would just rock back on the back foot and see that it's put over the boundary. We're always told to pitch up under their noses.

id slightly disagree and say that most club batsmen in the NETS would rock up onto the back foot and smash it over the boundary. in a match situation many would probably still try it. however it only takes the tiniest misjudgement and youre losing your wicket. international players value their wickets a lot more highly. im not sure that many batsmen would be considering the ramifications of getting out from a public perspective, if they are then they need to sort their heads out. Kevin Pietersen springs to mind. it should never occur to you what public opinion will be IMO whilst you are playing a sport. you should play for yourself and your team, no-one else.

i watched a batting technique video the other day, and Ricky Ponting is talking about practising in the nets. its all what youd expect, but one bit of wisdom i found particularly interesting was him saying that he plays in the nets like hes in a match. he envisages fielders, he has his same rituals, he tries to play his way in steadily like hes building an innings, and he protects his wicket at all costs.

contrast that with a club batsman and most couldnt care less if they get out, theyd rather go after some runs. its all about who scored the most runs in the bar afterwards. the guy who stayed in for 2 hours and kept things steady at a 30% strike rate whilst a few others tumbled for low scores doesnt get a mention.

personally i love aggressive batsmen with average or bad technique. every leg spinner should! i think that most club batsmen struggle to play shorter balls that turn more than they struggle to play full ones. the full ones probably take more wickets though and force more errors, the shorter ones just dont go for runs, within reason. by shorter im talking 4-6 feet in front of the batsman, whereas a full delivery would pitch 2-3 feet in front. small margins.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Last one from me I'm out of here now got to be up at 5am to go to a boot sale! YouTube - Flipper Variation No 4 Clarrie Grimmetts 'Wrong Wrong Un'

 

[water_boy]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

This post is not about leg-spin bowling. But I was wondering how the County selection works in England. Because I have heard that it is very much a lot different to state cricket in Australia

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

This post is not about leg-spin bowling. But I was wondering how the County selection works in England. Because I have heard that it is very much a lot different to state cricket in Australia

how does it work in Australia? just out of curiousity.

im not 100% sure on how it works in England. i know that when i was at school a few of the guys i played with represented at county youth level. im not sure how they got picked for that, i think there are probably county scouts who search for good young players in the youth sides at county-based clubs, and in school sides. then lots of players represent the county in various sides and at training sessions, and the very best players get taken on into the academy. theres a guy at my club who was playing for county, as far as i am aware he was picked for county and played and trained exclusively with them, not alongside a club. but for some reason he didnt like that setup so he plays club cricket now in both the colts and mens teams, but hes still an U15 player really. il try and find out off him how it works.

im more curious as to how it works with adults, or if indeed it even does. say theres a player in a fairly high division at club level performing really well. but they are mid-20's, but clearly worthy of county cricket. do counties even consider bringing in inexperienced older players, or do they recruit at youth level and ignore anything beyond it? there are quite a few ex-county players that play top level club cricket once they "retire", there are some international players as well!! so its not like the standard isnt up there with county cricket.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i played another match today. we had 12 players and the opposition only had 10, so i played for the opposition to make up the numbers. didnt bother me so long as i got a bowl! as it happens it worked in my favour as i probably wouldnt have got to bat if id played for my club because they only dropped 5 wickets.

anyway, it wasnt a great day, but i ended well and im feeling more confident than i was when i started!

we fielded first, i got called up 2nd change, the only issue here was that there were 2 batsmen going very well, one of whom is apparently an ex-Derbyshire county batsman, but past his best years and not so light on his feet anymore, which i figured would work in my favour.

my first over went for 9, i wasnt bowling that well, but a couple of deliveries were spot on, one of them found an inside edge and almost hit the stumps. i bowled a couple of wides though.

next over went for 6 and was better, 1 of the runs was a wide and i had the batsman well beaten a couple of times outside off stump as the ball turned from around leg. i was struggling for length though big time.

the next over was the bad one. the captain said "one more over and we will see how it goes". it started with a wide, then a couple of 4's lol. however i found my rhythm and the 4's were unlucky. one of them was a good shot, one of them was because the captain moved my deep square leg in 10 yards figuring that nothing had gone there, so it didnt need to be right back. next ball got creamed down there for 4 past the fielder, and had he been deep it would have been a single, 2 at best!! then my last 2 balls were awesome, both dots. at that point i felt confident, i wanted 2 more overs and felt it was worthwhile but the captain took me off, which i think was a mistake as he basically wasted 25 runs. it took me 25 runs to find rhythm, and then i got taken off. oh well.

i kept nagging him for another go later on, and he said i could have a single over to fill in between bowlers. and i carried my form over. by now there were 2 kids in bat, so they werent as skilled, but theyve got quick hands and feet, so its swings and roundabouts. also i bowl at them in the nets all the time so they know what i can do lol. this over was my best over ive ever bowled thus far. no great wicket chances, maybe a possible catch if the fielder could run faster, but it went for 2 runs, and none of them were extras!! every ball was a good one, i threw in an off spinning flipper outside off stump, it didnt turn though but it stayed super low. the batsman took a huge swing and miss over the top of the ball. 6" closer to off stump and it would have been played on, inline with off stump and id have had an LBW i reckon. if i had been the captain id have then kept me on for another over, but the captain wanted a bowl himself so that was it. 4-0-27-0 were my figures, the best ive managed so far in terms of economy, so there were positives. and my last over was excellent.

then i got to have a bat. i came in at number 7, we needed 59 to win. i hit a fairly quick 19 runs, 3 boundaries included, but never felt like id got in. i swung and missed so many times lol. eventually one of the quicker bowlers had a go, not fast, maybe 60mph. but i just couldnt play him, ive never faced anything more than slow-medium pace, and i couldnt find my timing. i edged to slip and that was that. but 19 runs to follow up 18 last week, 3rd highest scorer for the team. its a good start for someone who has never even hit a ball in the nets lol

so now its back to practicing my bowling again. theres still 2 sides playing friendlies until the end of september, so i may get another game, but probably not (there were 2 sunday friendly teams and 3 saturday league teams. now there is 1 each on saturday and sunday playing friendlies. the maths is working against me on this one, as there are a lot of players that are going to be looking for games and very few places available).

so today was a good day to end up. im disappointed not to have any wickets, and disappointed i didnt get to bowl on once i found my rhythm. but the signs were good. for 8 balls in a row i had top notch consistency, which ive barely even managed in the nets before. plus i had the ball turning very well, even at the beginning when i was bowling poorly. the umpire even said "its turning very well, you just need to find your line and length". i need to find consistency between bowling sessions to retain my form. i bowled badly on Thursday at practice but found my rhythm right at the end, and couldnt find it again this morning when i had a warm up for 45 mins. which i then carried into the match and it took 3 overs to find form. once i get there things go brilliantly though.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

They shut the main thread!

Anayway elsewhere a new bloke abdul asked this - Hi everyone i'm new on here. Really like the site. I'm a wrist spinner who bowls leg breaks and wrongun's but i want more info on the flipper, slider and top spinner. My questions are:

(1) Should the wrist be cocked for a top spinner? i dont cock the wrist as i can't keep the seam straight.
(2) when i try the top spinner it bounces more but it turns slightly like a leg break. Why is this?
(3) is it essential to use the wrist for a top spinner or can i only use the fingers?

I can't bowl the flipper at all and i think i can do slider but with less control.

(4) Is there any good step by step guide to the flipper and slider? Online video?

(5) Anyone read "the art of wrist spin" by Peter phillpot? has it got a step by step guide to the slider and flipper?

(6) Is there any good coaching for wrist spin for seniors? i'm 28 now. Is there a chance terry jenner helping?

Answers appreciated.

Jim Answered with this -

1) not sure how you mean, but the wrist should be rotated around. basically youve got your leg break where the palm of your hand ends up pretty much facing your face for a 90 degree seam.

for the top spinner you rotate the wrist 90 degrees so that the palm of your hand ends up facing the batsman. you literally turn the whole action through 90 degrees. thats the easiest way i can think to explain it.

2) this is a simple one, your wrist isnt turned enough. youre still bowling with side spin, not 100% overspin. the result is that you bowl a leg break that also bounces higher. on most pitches the overspun leg break is the most consistent and effective as it will turn most consistently on surfaces that arent perfect for spin. whereas the 90 degree leg break will often skid straight through if it doesnt grip.

3) id say the wrist is essential for all of the wrist spin deliveries (hence the name lol). although different people have different techniques. use whatever works for you, but if you use your wrist in your leg breaks, then use it in your top spinner as well. just turn the whole action around 90 degrees as i described above.

4) yes there is, someblokecalleddave on here has made some excellent videos, and has literally this weekend just made a video series about the different types of flipper!!
YouTube - someblokecalleddave1's Channel

5) yes i own a copy, its a must have for anyone that bowls leg spin IMO. the explanations on how to bowl the deliveries arent particularly well described from a visual sense, and there are no illustrations. however Philpott has an "around the loop" methodology which will help you a great deal in understanding the top spinner and slider variations!! so id advise buying a copy and reading it 10 times cover to cover lol

6) what country do you live in? coaching for club level players seems fairly sporadic, the likes of Jenner and Philpott tend to coach youngsters with potential to be professional players, and do lots of seminars for pros, as well as advising at county and international level. im not sure you can get coaching from them, or that it would be particularly helpful in a short session. youll get just as much from watching the videos on youtube.

the club i play for has a good coach who seems to know how to teach leg spin. he teaches the kids primarily, but his methods look to work very well. hes the sort of coach id go to with a problem and ask him to look at my action and make suggestions. i think thats the best you can do as a leggie in England as there are so few experts here, leg spin is a relatively unknown art, prior to Shane Warne barely anyone even knew what it was lol. in other countries maybe it is different for coaching. the other problem is that leg spin is very unique to the individual, no 2 people have the same action, but can achieve the same results. so you have to learn to self analyse your bowling i think to really make progress. get some videos and post them on here, theres lots of people with very good advice.

also, have a look at the Wrist Spin Bowling threads..

Wrist Spin Bowling
Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Abdul,

The Philpott book is generally very good and a must for anyone bowling Wrist Spin. But with regards the Flipper we're pretty much convinced that Philpott was a Slider bowler when he bowled a back-spinning ball and if you read the book the section that deals with the Flipper is very confused and a bit short in comparison with the rest of his explanations and we reckon Philpott didn't use the Flipper and therefore only covers briefly with some confusion.

Have a look at my blog -

Spinbowling-Flipper

 

[abdul qadir junior]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Abdul,

The Philpott book is generally very good and a must for anyone bowling Wrist Spin. But with regards the Flipper we're pretty much convinced that Philpott was a Slider bowler when he bowled a back-spinning ball and if you read the book the section that deals with the Flipper is very confused and a bit short in comparison with the rest of his explanations and we reckon Philpott didn't use the Flipper and therefore only covers briefly with some confusion.

Have a look at my blog -

Spinbowling-Flipper

I've looking for a slider video tutorial mate. Any chance of u doing one? ur tutorials are awesome.