Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've looking for a slider video tutorial mate. Any chance of u doing one? ur tutorials are awesome.

which slider? lol

we had a discussion about the slider a week or so back and there were at least 4 variations among the handful of us who discussed it alone!! let alone how many other potential variations there are.

personally i bowl mine with the "around the loop" method. whereas a turn my 90 deg leg break through 90 degrees so that it spins over the top for a top spinner, i do the exact opposite for my slider. its tricky to get the wrist to go there, i cant bowl it consistently over 22 yards, but i can over about 16 yards.

then there are many other methods. one involves holding the ball with the normal leg spin grip, but instead of flicking the wrist across the ball you drag your hand down the back of it, much like a seamer would bowl. the seam is scrambled and it just skids through low. this is how Shane Warne describes his slider.

then there is another variation on this where you turn the seam so that instead of being side on to the wicket it points down the wicket, and you are basically just bowling a seam up delivery but slowly and trying to disguise it. also you backspin it harder than a seamer would. Shane Warne also used this method according to a masterclass he did during a lunchbreak at the Ashes coverage of the final test at The Oval this year.

another variation is similar to the first Shane Warne slider, but you jam your middle finger behind the ball, bowl it just like a leg break but flick your middle finger out to impart back spin.

im sure those arent the only variations of the slider in circulation either!! Adil Rashid often looks to bowl a conventional leg break but with the seam turned 90 degrees (so it points down the wicket) so that the turn on the ball doesnt do anything off the wicket and it just goes straight without the bounce of an overspun delivery. but the hand during delivery looks exactly the same as a leg break. to the batsman it would appear as a poorly presented seam position, but off the pitch it behaves very differently to a leg break.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've got no immediate intentions on doing a Slider video clip, but I'll get there eventually. It's one of my weaker deliveries so I'd be talking about with not a lot of real experience. I reckon Jim's done a good job describing it here anyway - this one is mine (From Jim's lis)...

then there are many other methods. one involves holding the ball with the normal leg spin grip, but instead of flicking the wrist across the ball you drag your hand down the back of it, much like a seamer would bowl. the seam is scrambled and it just skids through low. this is how Shane Warne describes his slider.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've got no immediate intentions on doing a Slider video clip, but I'll get there eventually. It's one of my weaker deliveries so I'd be talking about with not a lot of real experience. I reckon Jim's done a good job describing it here anyway - this one is mine (From Jim's lis)...

then there are many other methods. one involves holding the ball with the normal leg spin grip, but instead of flicking the wrist across the ball you drag your hand down the back of it, much like a seamer would bowl. the seam is scrambled and it just skids through low. this is how Shane Warne describes his slider.

if i can find some time this week where the weather is fine and the wind isnt too strong, and i can then also find some form with my bowling, i might try and make some vids. ive been meaning to anyway, but when im having a good day i can get my "round the loop" slider to come out quite consistently. i also want to get some videos so i can figure out how fast my bowling is (who needs a speed gun when youve got slow motion across a known distance )

 

[abdul qadir junior]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

which slider? lol

we had a discussion about the slider a week or so back and there were at least 4 variations among the handful of us who discussed it alone!! let alone how many other potential variations there are.

personally i bowl mine with the "around the loop" method. whereas a turn my 90 deg leg break through 90 degrees so that it spins over the top for a top spinner, i do the exact opposite for my slider. its tricky to get the wrist to go there, i cant bowl it consistently over 22 yards, but i can over about 16 yards.

then there are many other methods. one involves holding the ball with the normal leg spin grip, but instead of flicking the wrist across the ball you drag your hand down the back of it, much like a seamer would bowl. the seam is scrambled and it just skids through low. this is how Shane Warne describes his slider.

then there is another variation on this where you turn the seam so that instead of being side on to the wicket it points down the wicket, and you are basically just bowling a seam up delivery but slowly and trying to disguise it. also you backspin it harder than a seamer would. Shane Warne also used this method according to a masterclass he did during a lunchbreak at the Ashes coverage of the final test at The Oval this year.

another variation is similar to the first Shane Warne slider, but you jam your middle finger behind the ball, bowl it just like a leg break but flick your middle finger out to impart back spin.

im sure those arent the only variations of the slider in circulation either!! Adil Rashid often looks to bowl a conventional leg break but with the seam turned 90 degrees (so it points down the wicket) so that the turn on the ball doesnt do anything off the wicket and it just goes straight without the bounce of an overspun delivery. but the hand during delivery looks exactly the same as a leg break. to the batsman it would appear as a poorly presented seam position, but off the pitch it behaves very differently to a leg break.

lol i mean the slider that warne and jenner bowl. The top spinner gone wrong and the thumb facing the bowler rather than the batsmen. Its in the video " warnes 5 spin deliveries" ( on bbc website).

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

lol i mean the slider that warne and jenner bowl. The top spinner gone wrong and the thumb facing the bowler rather than the batsmen. Its in the video " warnes 5 spin deliveries" ( on bbc website).

thats the "round the loop" version that i use, which is actually probably one of the least common versions. its also the hardest to bowl. i can bowl all of the other ones, but they arent as effective. ive never heard Shane Warne talk about this variation, whenever he talks about sliders he refers to the more simple versions like running your fingers down the back of the ball. maybe this is a secret delivery he doesnt want to share but Jenner does anyway?

the biggest issue ive found with the more simple sliders is that club level batsmen dont fall into traps very easily. unless you are getting every single leg break to turn big and then suddenly one doesnt they just dont fall for it. every batsman ive bowled at so far has looked to always play deliveries like they are straight (maybe because most of them dont turn), and then adjust to ones that turn (more often than not, anything that turns decently causes problems though in this situation). apart from one who didnt so much fall into a trap as he just got overly confident, tried to smash me for 4 and the ball turned less and he inside edged it onto his stumps. but generally batsmen EXPECT the ball to go straight on. i guess they figure club bowlers arent Shane Warne, so what are the chances of them turning it like him lol.

the round the loop slider however, as demonstrated by Jenner, is an immense delivery even against a batsman playing straight. it will always cause problems because its so violent in its actions.get it right and it almost stops on the pitch, jumps up violently then straight down again. get it slightly wrong it comes out as a huge turning leg break instead! when you get it right id imagine it will be great for making batsmen mistime their shots and place simple catches to the close fielders, or even the bowler!! i reckon its best used against aggressive batsmen that are trying to slog you straight (scooped up catching opportunities) or sweep onto the leg side (LBW or top edge catches)

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

That's the difficult one, that's the Big Leg Break gone wrong, it's described in Philpotts book the Art of Wrist Spin. Basically what you're doing is you're trying to spin the ball back in towards yourself using the basic leg break flick technique. So as you've said it's the same as the Top_Spinner but instead of flicking the ball forward towards the batsman you flick it inwards towards yourslef but you then release it and it slides out of the back of your hand with back spin.

I've just uploaded 'The Mystery Ball' video on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egstYb4Oz70

From the Flipper Blog http://spinbowling-flipper.blogspot.com/

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

awesome, the cricket captain phoned earlier and im playing again at the weekend either all of the regulars are too busy playing football, or my lacklustre performances have somehow impressed (tbh i think right now my batting is my strongest point, its quite ridiculous. im becoming a batsman that bowls a bit, despite spending every minute of my practice on my bowling lol)

so hopefully i can find some rhythm this time, and maybe get a bit more luck.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What kind of figures are you getting with your batting then? I just looked you're beating me already. I'm dog crap useless at batting but it sounds like I might go for your approach. I seem to get bowled when I'm trying to do things by the book whereas if I bat like an englishman playing against Australia in a one day match I do slightly better and get the ball on the bat with some aggression!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

awesome, the cricket captain phoned earlier and im playing again at the weekend either all of the regulars are too busy playing football, or my lacklustre performances have somehow impressed (tbh i think right now my batting is my strongest point, its quite ridiculous. im becoming a batsman that bowls a bit, despite spending every minute of my practice on my bowling lol)

so hopefully i can find some rhythm this time, and maybe get a bit more luck.

I didn't get a match this weekend as our blokes couldn't be bothered to turn up for a game - as you say maybe footballs on thier agendas and they play in the morning and are too knackered to play a game of cricket in the afternoon?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Warne learnt the philpott backspinning topspinner (slider) from Bob Simpson.

Jenner helped Warne develop several other different "sliders" later .

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What kind of figures are you getting with your batting then?

18 in my first match batting at 7 for the Sunday 2's playing against the Sunday 1's. one other guy hit 24, no-one else made double figures for our side.

then on Sunday i scored 19 for the opposition who were short of players against my own clubs Sunday 2's. this time i 3rd highest scored for the team and discovered i cant bat against anyone even moderately quick lol. all my runs come off spinners and slower seam bowlers.

so my average thus far is 18.5 which im guessing probably isnt too shabby for a club friendly 2nd XI. im due a low score, ive got by on more than my fair share of luck thus far.

its amazing that it has to be said, but im staggered by bowlers not aiming to hit the stumps with every delivery at club level!! the number of times batsmen just completely miss the ball and it goes through harmlessly to the keeper. even as a leg spinner im aiming to hit the stumps most deliveries, its just harder to do when the ball is moving around corners and not in straight lines. as a seamer it should be easy.

to back this strange and ridiculous phenomenon up... there is a kid that plays at my club, ive practised with him in the nets a few times now, both of us just bowling. hes very good, and bowls left arm seam up, pretty fast as well, and every delivery is at the stumps. because hes a left armer this means that to right handed batsmen (just about everyone at club level it seems) the ball is aimed at their legs. a few of the other kids were having a discussion about how weird his bowling is because he always bowls at their legs. and this confuses them....

how the hell else should he be bowling?!?!? in the nets he hits the stumps (against batsmen) more than any other bowler ive seen. they miss, he hits. its simple. yet so baffling at the same time to most people, its really bizarre. on Sunday i witnessed the best bowler for the team i was playing for (technically the opposition) bowl wonderfully. nobody could score runs off him. but he took no wickets. contrast this with a guy that had a stuttering run up, a really weird action, and nowhere near the same kind of pace and movement. he started badly and was bowling all over the place, but he came back on later and he took 3 wickets because he bowled straight at the stumps near enough every ball.

i think too many kids and young adults watch too much international cricket and see bowlers zipping the ball 6-12" outside off stump at 95mph. unfortunately for club cricketers the batsmen rarely have the technique to play straight drives, so anything outside off stump gets smashed away into the offside or gets missed completely. people arent finding perfect upright edges to the slips!

sorry ive gone off on a little bit of a tangeant there, back to leg spin lol...

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

No that's interesting to hear, I'd have though anyone from the Top order down to about number 7 would have just flicked the ball off the legs - but maybe that only applies to slower balls (Spinners)?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

No that's interesting to hear, I'd have though anyone from the Top order down to about number 7 would have just flicked the ball off the legs - but maybe that only applies to slower balls (Spinners)?

right arm over is coming in towards the legs from outside off stump though, if its in-swinging then even more so, and most opening bowlers seem to get the ball swinging to some extent.

so its not so much on the legs, it would be hard to simply flick it onto the leg side (and very risky), most good players seem to look to play straight and capitalise on anything loose. a left armer to a right handed batsmen would be different, ive not seen the guy i mentioned bowl in a match yet.

against spin its so much slower that you can attempt to play it anywhere. youve got time to do so, its just a question of judgement on what is there to be hit, and what is going to get you out lol.

the issue for a leg spinner is that to hit the stumps we either have to pitch inline with middle for small turn, or outside leg for big turn. if it doesnt turn then its leg side and easy to score off of. but if you play it safe and bowl inline with the stumps and it turns big then it ends up wide of off and is equally as easy to smash. UNLESS, the length is in that uncertain couple of feet where the batsman has no idea if he should play or leave, front foot or back foot, defend or attack. and then it doesnt seem to matter lol.

i was about 3" off of bowling someone around their legs at the weekend, i pitched it wide (through inaccuracy as opposed to intention), they got squared up by drift and ended up stepping across the stumps slightly trying to tuck a shot to somewhere around the square to fine leg region, missed and the ball turned back in big. it was on that uncertain length though. otherwise it would have got creamed!!

i think length is the most crucial aspect of spin bowling. bowl on the right length and the line doesnt seem to matter so much. batsmen will try and hit ANYTHING from a leggie ive found. it can be 2 feet outside leg stump, theyll still swing at it lol. the number of wides ive been spared by over-exuberant batsmen would probably double my runs conceded!!

 

[The Edge Of Willow]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I've had a couple of good net sessions over the last week. My spin is returning. I am now turning my leg-breaks as much(although not as often) as my ripping off-breaks. The difference with getting the release right is quite noticeable; I can really feel it fizz when I get it right.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i think length is the most crucial aspect of spin bowling. bowl on the right length and the line doesnt seem to matter so much. QUOTE]

That is the big advantage of legspin in particular dont you think?. You can be a bit more off target with your line than any other type of bowling as long as you get the length right first.

Of course you have to work towards controling both line and length but as I said before, Grimmett did stress length over line as the first goal.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i think length is the most crucial aspect of spin bowling. bowl on the right length and the line doesnt seem to matter so much.

That is the big advantage of legspin in particular dont you think?. You can be a bit more off target with your line than any other type of bowling as long as you get the length right first.

Of course you have to work towards controling both line and length but as I said before, Grimmett did stress length over line as the first goal.

yeh, i think its definitely in our favour. in terms of my own bowling, my length is barely an issue, ive really got quite consistent with length. its my line that i struggle with most. but during matches its only the short balls that ever get hit for runs (and for some reason during matches i tend to bowl a better line and worse length than i do when practicing, so there tends to be 1 or 2 shorter ones per over). anything pitched up full with flight, unless it is well wide of the stumps, generally gets a dot ball. if batsmen go after my length deliveries they invariably give me wicket chances, near enough every ball!! even a foot outside off stump, if they go fishing it will find edges.

i had a good long practice today, my first on my own in a while, i keep practicing against batsmen or with other people around me at the nets which can be a distraction. ive identified yet more issues with my action and solved most of them. but for some bizarre reason i could barely spin the ball!! its usually the one thing i have nailed with complete consistency whilst my line is all over the shop. but today my line was alright, my length was very good, but i could barely generate spin. i felt like i was Adil Rashid! maybe my fingers are just tired and need resting. it was incredibly frustrating though bowling perfect line and length deliveries with a very good action, loads of drift in flight because it was quite windy, only to see them go straight on over middle stump.

i did however bowl one absolute peach of a top spinner, the best ive ever bowled. it literally bounced head height, the dip must have been ferocious!! ive managed to figure out what Philpott and Warne often say about "exploding through the crease". doing so forces me to run on straight after ive released the ball. that extension to the follow through forces more rotation of my body and in theory should generate much more spin. for whatever reason today though my fingers were the weakest link. once i can get everything working together i think my action should be the best ive had it yet by a long way.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I'm going through a crap patch at the minute which isn't helped by the fact that I didn't play on Sunday, maybe if I'd had a game I might have been able to get more of a sense where I'm going wrong. Like you at the minute my line and length seem okay it just seems I'm not turning the ball much. But.... having said that today me and another bloke at work sloped off for a long lunch break in the nets at a place called Chalkwell (2 hrs) and got some batting and bowling under our belts. This was on an artificial surface - matting over concrete and I was turning the ball there and I was forcing all sorts of errors that would have been stumpings and catches and bowled a lovely wrong un out of nowhere that hit middle stump from about a foot wide of the off-stump, so that was quite good. I'm still trying to figure out whether I've got a game this Sunday?

 

[gundalf7]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i think length is the most crucial aspect of spin bowling. bowl on the right length and the line doesnt seem to matter so much. QUOTE]

That is the big advantage of legspin in particular dont you think?. You can be a bit more off target with your line than any other type of bowling as long as you get the length right first.

Of course you have to work towards controling both line and length but as I said before, Grimmett did stress length over line as the first goal.

length is definitely the most important thing and the one thing that causes the most problems for the batsman.

My bowling since my fingers recovered seems to be going through a really weird phase where before the injury I was struggling with everything but since my bowling seems to be going through a phase where i'm turning the ball huge if anything too much, as when i beat the bat its not going to hit the stumps as i'm bowling on middle or middle and off and it seems to beat the bat everytime too with my stock leg break.

Had 3 games effectively at the weekend got called up for the saturday 1sts at the last minute as someone couldn't make it. The opposistion had an afticificial wicket, first time i've played on one this year. We only made 132 all out so had basically nothing to defend, i made a duck - my first inside edging a forward defence onto my stumps off an offie.
The bounce in the pitch was silly i only ended up bowling the over. The first ball turned a mile off the stumps and bounced chest high, the 2nd pitched on middle and ended up a foot outside the stumps after bouncing past the batsmans shoulder from a length, the keeper took it above his head. Then fielders let 2 fours through their legs off 2 sweeps and then i went to pot bowled a couple of wide balls and another wild one got smaked for four with the silly bounce. 1 over for 16 wasn't great in the end, can't say i liked bowling on the pitch and all i can really think I could have done is have bowled flat and quick.

Ended up 2 games sunday 35 overs we knocked them over for 86 in the end, our home pitch looks like its in a state of disrepair the bounce is so variable for the quicks batting is a nigh on impossible task though with the spin there is a bit of turn but not much else. Took me 4 ball to get a wicket 3 leggies with good turn beating the bat before a quicker arm ball knocked off stump out the ground. Bowled accurately for the rest of my 3 overs and 2 balls missed the stumps by incehs 5 or 6 times after beating the bat. Ended up with 4 overs 1 maiden 1-10. We got knocked over for 36 i got another duck lost my balance reaching too far forward with a defensive shot against a slow left armer and got stumped, wasn't given out by sqaure leg but walked as i knew i was out.
Didn't bowl or bat in the last game that ended a 15 over game as we finished so early took a nice catch though.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

That's that old 'Don't do it for a while' trick. When you get in a rut just don't bowl for a week or two and them come back to it and suddenly you're Englands version of Shane Warne!

 

[gundalf7]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

yeah i think sometimes you can just overdo it and you end up practicing bad habits but a break goes back to a more natural action in you muscle memory.