Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

im trying to learn an off-spinning flipper. i cant figure out the round-the-loop wrong'un at all, my arm just wont go there yet, il have to keep with that for the long term, keep bowling toppers and try to just move my wrist around that little bit extra. that might take years though, il just have to stick at it.

the flipped off break seems like the easy way to have a wrong'un in my armoury in the shorter term, also i can potentially have full control of the spin angle from 100% overspin round to 100% backspin, meaning i can bowl a wrong'un in every possible guise from big turning to big bouncing to skidding through. it makes more sense to me to have a delivery like that at club level than a carefully disguised round-the-loop version. how regularly do you face a batsman that knows your game well enough to be confident judging deliveries out of your hand? id imagine most batsman are completely baffled by EVERY delivery, even the "easy" to read leg break lol. unless you bowl a long spell against them and they get settled i doubt any batsman at club level would learn a leg spinners game to the point he could pick the rather different wrist angle as an off break. even if they spotted the variation, theyd have no idea what it was going to do.

the only real issue im having is that the ball comes out slightly angled off the seam because of the nature of my action. its got awesome revs, perfect seam balance, its just that the seam doesnt touch the floor! it still turns back in about 6" off of the side of the ball, if i could land it on the seam it should turn huge.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;361139 said:
Personally I've got a ball like this and I just have it higher in the fingers and whip the front arm down a lot faster. My mystery ball spins away like a little off-spinner, but I quite like the fact that it does that.

Higher in your fingers as in the tips of your fingers, or further in the palm?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;360550 said:
is this "off-spinning flipper" the same as your gipper? do you get much success with it and doesn't if hurt like hell to bowl. it looks like it should?

The 'Gipper' as I named it is actually one of Grimmetts obscure balls described in his book 'Taking Wickets' from 1930. Grimmett named it the 'Wrong wrong un' and as the name suggests it looks like a wrong un but instead of spinning from off to leg its breaks like a Leg Break. Grimmett gave up it as far as we can make out, but I persevered with it ignorant of the fact that anyone had ever bowled a ball like it. The conclusion is much the same as any variation it's good very slow and loopy, but if It's pitched up the full 22 yards at speed it loses some of it's turn off the wicket. It's not easy to bowl either and like my other flippers it's a bit flat in flight so I don't use it that much.

Whereas your Off-spinning Flipper Grimmetts first incarnation of the Flipper that's bowl out of the front of the hand so it looks like Leg Break, but instead of spinning the ball in the wrist spinners usual manner using the 3rd finger and wrist the spin is imparted using the click of the fingers. See - YouTube - Clarrie Grimmett Flipper Wrist spin bowling A of all of the Flipper variations I've found this to be the hardest to bowl because the wrist has to be facing forwards and the flick forcing the ball out of the front of the hand with off-spin. It's very difficult but then too are all of the Flipper variations.


I have to say to anyone reading this that if you're under 16 you're advised not to even attempt the bog standard Flipper as it stresses your body in way that can cause long term problems.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

By the way did you ever see Kaneria bowling live with Essex Dave? He might join the forum and get a hang of Macca's mystery ball.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;360604 said:
im trying to learn an off-spinning flipper. i cant figure out the round-the-loop wrong'un at all, my arm just wont go there yet, il have to keep with that for the long term, keep bowling toppers and try to just move my wrist around that little bit extra. that might take years though, il just have to stick at it.

the flipped off break seems like the easy way to have a wrong'un in my armoury in the shorter term, also i can potentially have full control of the spin angle from 100% overspin round to 100% backspin, meaning i can bowl a wrong'un in every possible guise from big turning to big bouncing to skidding through. it makes more sense to me to have a delivery like that at club level than a carefully disguised round-the-loop version. how regularly do you face a batsman that knows your game well enough to be confident judging deliveries out of your hand? id imagine most batsman are completely baffled by EVERY delivery, even the "easy" to read leg break lol. unless you bowl a long spell against them and they get settled i doubt any batsman at club level would learn a leg spinners game to the point he could pick the rather different wrist angle as an off break. even if they spotted the variation, theyd have no idea what it was going to do.

the only real issue im having is that the ball comes out slightly angled off the seam because of the nature of my action. its got awesome revs, perfect seam balance, its just that the seam doesnt touch the floor! it still turns back in about 6" off of the side of the ball, if i could land it on the seam it should turn huge.

The point about batsmen reading the ball out of the hand - I honestly think that maybe 1 in 100 might have a crack at it, but the other 99 wouldn't have a clue as to what you're bowling, they wouldn't even know a wrong un from an Elephant let alone tell a Wrong Un from a Top-Spinner!

If you can bowl the bog standard Flipper I'd honestly try and bowl the Top-Spinning flipper. This is a lovely looking ball and one that I can bowl very accurately and with pace, it dips nice and swings off the seam as well, but the bit you may be interested in is that you only have to vary the angle of the wrist and it'll turn like a small wrong un so might well be worth a look at. It's a killer to learn and you have to 'Break your wrist in' as such and endure some real pain for some weeks as your muscles and tendons toughen up to enable you to bowl it. It helps if before you start to throw it over the 22 yards you spin the ball like it all the time when your standing around a la Philpotts advice, that way you ease into it and the trauma of bowling it to the wrist is lessened.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;361142 said:
Higher in your fingers as in the tips of your fingers, or further in the palm?

Out of the palm, higher into the fingers and very orthodox 2 fingers up 2 fingers down.

Just looked at my clubs bowling stats http://www.gandccc.webeden.co.uk/cgi-bin/download.cgi they've just been updated for the 1st time in weeks and it looks like I've got some work to do if I'm going to maintain them this weekend or improve them. Don't know who I'm playing so it should be interesting.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;360607 said:
The point about batsmen reading the ball out of the hand - I honestly think that maybe 1 in 100 might have a crack at it, but the other 99 wouldn't have a clue as to what you're bowling, they wouldn't even know a wrong un from an Elephant let alone tell a Wrong Un from a Top-Spinner!

If you can bowl the bog standard Flipper I'd honestly try and bowl the Top-Spinning flipper. This is a lovely looking ball and one that I can bowl very accurately and with pace, it dips nice and swings off the seam as well, but the bit you may be interested in is that you only have to vary the angle of the wrist and it'll turn like a small wrong un so might well be worth a look at. It's a killer to learn and you have to 'Break your wrist in' as such and endure some real pain for some weeks as your muscles and tendons toughen up to enable you to bowl it. It helps if before you start to throw it over the 22 yards you spin the ball like it all the time when your standing around a la Philpotts advice, that way you ease into it and the trauma of bowling it to the wrist is lessened.

ive been practicing my flipper action for as long as ive been practicing my leg break action (e.g. about 3 years before i even bowled a delivery, just messing around spinning a cricket ball between my hands). actually delivering it is harder, but i can always get it to spin, accuracy is the major concern for my normal flipper. turning the normal flipper inwards creates a back spinning off break, which is fairly easy to do. the top spinning variation is what ive been working on, because the seam is easier to present upright, the back spinning version i find the seam is angled as i described above. it just needs a ton of practice, as with everything!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;361148 said:
By the way did you ever see Kaneria bowling live with Essex Dave? He might join the forum and get a hang of Macca's mystery ball.

Saddo, I've never seen Essex play, it's a bit too expensive for me and I've got very little time what with all the practicing I do! Yeah come on Danish get on the forum and gives us some guidance and ideas please?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;360604 said:
im trying to learn an off-spinning flipper. i cant figure out the round-the-loop wrong'un at all, my arm just wont go there yet, il have to keep with that for the long term, keep bowling toppers and try to just move my wrist around that little bit extra. that might take years though, il just have to stick at it.

You'll have to let us know how you get on with this, I'll be interested to know how you get on.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;361150 said:
Saddo, I've never seen Essex play, it's a bit too expensive for me and I've got very little time what with all the practicing I do! Yeah come on Danish get on the forum and gives us some guidance and ideas please?

I did not like his idea of the flipper much though on that you tube video though. Yes, I am sorry for you, hard life having holidays and practicing. Sounds like a dogs life to me.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;360607 said:
The point about batsmen reading the ball out of the hand - I honestly think that maybe 1 in 100 might have a crack at it, but the other 99 wouldn't have a clue as to what you're bowling, they wouldn't even know a wrong un from an Elephant let alone tell a Wrong Un from a Top-Spinner!

If you can bowl the bog standard Flipper I'd honestly try and bowl the Top-Spinning flipper. This is a lovely looking ball and one that I can bowl very accurately and with pace, it dips nice and swings off the seam as well, but the bit you may be interested in is that you only have to vary the angle of the wrist and it'll turn like a small wrong un so might well be worth a look at. It's a killer to learn and you have to 'Break your wrist in' as such and endure some real pain for some weeks as your muscles and tendons toughen up to enable you to bowl it. It helps if before you start to throw it over the 22 yards you spin the ball like it all the time when your standing around a la Philpotts advice, that way you ease into it and the trauma of bowling it to the wrist is lessened.

just the other day I was talking to a really experienced batsman and told him I thought that my leg break and wrong'un were very obviously different and easy to pick. basically the advice I got was that batsmen watch the ball and the poisition of my wrist or the high of my arm is something that most (not all) wouldn't have time to notice. at higher levels then maybe some but even then not all notice these things.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;361152 said:
I did not like his idea of the flipper much though on that you tube video though. Yes, I am sorry for you, hard life having holidays and practicing. Sounds like a dogs life to me.

Yeah it's hard work!

No I didn't like his Flipper explanation either, in fact I reckon he wouldn't know a flipper if it slapped him round the face and his vid looks like his Mum shot it - YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling the flipper
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yep that's my experience, I was speaking to a bloke in my team who's played cricket all his life 30 + years and he's one of our old first team bats and he was saying he didn't have a clue what I was doing and it was really difficult to pick me out of the hand. That is in part due to the fact that 99% of the time they'd only ever be looking at either off-spin (Finger spinners) or Leg-spin (Leg Breaks) you've got remember if it hadn't been for Warne (Me included) very few of the people that are bowling now would never have bowled spin and prior to Warne the chances of you coming across a spinner that bowled more than either Leg Breaks or Off-spin (Finger spin) were less than finding a colony of Dodo's living in a house at the end of your street. Even now there are so few people that bowl wrist spin and those that do rarely get beyond bowling a Leg Break, so how is a batsman ever going to learn through experience what the variations look like? It just doesn't happen.

Every thing is stacked in our favour, all you've got to do is learn to bowl a very good leg break and I'm talking line and length primarily and then maybe 2 variations and I seriously believe you're looking at potentially being the best wicket taker in your team. The reason it doesn't happen is that blokes haven't got the patience and the commitment to put in the hours and the years to get it right and they're cast aside by their captain/team in the process of learning their trade as such. That's why it's essential to take on board that you have got to go it alone in most cases, bowl on your own till you've got your leg break together and then get a spell and prove yourself. If it don't happen it's back to the drawing board!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;361130 said:
Still a legbreak. just less flight and faster.

ive discovered a delivery like this, more by accident than anything else. i can bowl it on demand now, its pretty much exactly as you describe - flat in flight but faster to the bat. it still turns well though. i reckon it could work well in conjunction with an "arm ball", one that is the same but doesnt turn at all. bowl the straight one, then bowl what looks to be exactly the same but with turn and it might find an edge.

i can do a similar thing with my flipper, but less consistently. if i keep it flat it is LOADS faster than anything else i bowl, probably up around the 60mph mark if i had to estimate. and then the backspin gets it zipping through and staying low off the bounce. might be good for LBW's.

someblokecalleddave;361119 said:
Ahhh now I see and I suppose you've tried bowling your delivery with your foot pointing straight down the wicket or to the off-side or where-ever it's needed to theoretically correct it and you've tried the 'stand start' a la' Beau Casson in the David Freedman clips? I take it you use your leading arm to point in the direction you want the ball to go as well?

ive tried pretty much everything lol. my leading arm isnt very controlled, maybe that is something i should look to improve. it always does the same thing, but i dont actually know what it does, it just kinda flaps around in front of me. i dont get my whole arm high, i have it bent, but i get my elbow up in front of my face, arm pointing backwards. thats how i got told to bowl when i was about 12 and they showed us the absolute basics at school. that and the brush your ear with your bowling arm thing. 10 years or so later and most stuff i see says to disregard both points lol. a little knowledge is a dangerous thing it seems, especially in a sports teacher at school!!

where is the video you are referring to? i swear ive seen it once, and have never been able to find it again. might be worth me having a look at for some ideas.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

If a good batsman faces a legspinner enough they will learn to pick the flipper out of the hand. Grimmett knew this and was very secretive with what he was up to.
What always amazed me about Warne was how much he could spin the ball using both conventional legspin as well as the completely different method used to finger click a flipper. He was the best at both styles.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;361238 said:
where is the video you are referring to? i swear ive seen it once, and have never been able to find it again. might be worth me having a look at for some ideas.

It's here YouTube - David Freedman legspin coaching video I reckon this is the best video resource on the internet with regards to Wrist Spin, there is so many little things in here to note and make use of and this was very instrumental in me regaining my Leg Break.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;360618 said:
If a good batsman faces a legspinner enough they will learn to pick the flipper out of the hand. Grimmett knew this and was very secretive with what he was up to.
What always amazed me about Warne was how much he could spin the ball using both conventional legspin as well as the completely different method used to finger click a flipper. He was the best at both styles.

Honestly Macca if you talk to club cricketers over here they've got no concept of what's going on when they're facing a spin bowler and the same applies to the blokes that bowl spin. I think at club level the coaching just isn't up to it, the more experienced coaches and bowlers will know about Leg Breaks, Top-Spinners and Wrong Uns, but it's an exceptionally rare day when you sit down with a club player be it a batsman or a bowler who will know what a Flipper is and be able to explain it let alone describe it and recognise it coming out of the hand!

Macca do you know how much training Warne would have done during the height of his career?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;360618 said:
If a good batsman faces a legspinner enough they will learn to pick the flipper out of the hand. Grimmett knew this and was very secretive with what he was up to.
What always amazed me about Warne was how much he could spin the ball using both conventional legspin as well as the completely different method used to finger click a flipper. He was the best at both styles.

I think I said in an earlier post Warne was a freak (in a good way). A natural ability to spin the ball massively, combined with an almost perfect action in all of it's aspect. Add the fact that until his later career he was able to bowl 6 good deliveries almost every over and you have a pretty amazing bowler. I think warnes lack of poor balls is why Mcgill didn't get a look in when warne was available as he did bowl at least one bad ball an over (he was still a world class spinner though).
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;361238 said:
ive tried pretty much everything lol. my leading arm isnt very controlled, maybe that is something i should look to improve. it always does the same thing, but i dont actually know what it does, it just kinda flaps around in front of me. i dont get my whole arm high, i have it bent, but i get my elbow up in front of my face, arm pointing backwards. thats how i got told to bowl when i was about 12 and they showed us the absolute basics at school. that and the brush your ear with your bowling arm thing. 10 years or so later and most stuff i see says to disregard both points lol. a little knowledge is a dangerous thing it seems, especially in a sports teacher at school!!

Hi all! I'm new to posting at these forums, but I have been reading every few months when I need some reassurance that there is another leg-spinner out there learning the craft too. You've been a great help.

Anyway I thought I'd make some suggestions. I went through this problem for a while and I think I might know what's going on.

Three things
1) Front foot should be pointing straight down the wicket. But you might have a different action. Try front leg pointing to 11 or even 10 o'clock - anywhere pointing on the off side might work. Also notice where your chest is... the concept of pointing your front leg relies on the premise that your chest moves too. Summarising - think about your front leg, be rigid with your front leg, but not with your upper body.

2) Back foot should be pointing to the off side - 3 o'clock to even 12 o'clock for the flipper. Warney has it at about 2:30.

3) Finally - where is your front leg in comparison to your back leg? Forget now where your feet are pointing. Think of where you place your front leg. Is it straight in front of your left leg? Or is it to the right, so you can spin over your front leg? In theory bowling over your front leg moves it more to off - where as having one leg directly in front of the other is used to bowl around the legs. This is where I had my problem.

Hope this helps!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

do most people have there front foot pointing down the wicket in delivery?

I had always had it at an angle but this made me loose balance in the delivery which effected accuracy. I've recently changed to the foot pointing at the target and I'm able to stay upright and pivot easier but it does feel a little strange and forced. I was just wondering what others do and if this is orthodox. Either way I'll persist as I'm getting good results. I'm hoping I'll get used to it in time.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;361339 said:
Saddo do you have SKY and watch the Ashes? If not can you access this Demand Five | watch Cricket On Five, Season 2009 - episode 23, England v Australia - 5th Test - Brit Oval - Day 3 Macca might want to look away not that I'm saying the outcome is a foregone conclusion - this is the Ashes after all!


No I do not have sky but see bits and pieces elsewhere. Unfortunately, that link does not work outside the uk. I am an independent viewer, but prefer the underdogs usually ie england. I have a feeling the autralians will still win it as the wicket is playing well despite it being described as a minefield, and the fact that there will be no cloud cover, so no swing. It will have to take something special by swann to win them the match or some cutters by broad or collingwood. You poms were called pu****s by langer after all!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;360716 said:
do most people have there front foot pointing down the wicket in delivery?

I had always had it at an angle but this made me loose balance in the delivery which effected accuracy. I've recently changed to the foot pointing at the target and I'm able to stay upright and pivot easier but it does feel a little strange and forced. I was just wondering what others do and if this is orthodox. Either way I'll persist as I'm getting good results. I'm hoping I'll get used to it in time.

mine sort of points at the target. it actually points more towards about a foot outside leg stump. and strangely enough the ball typically goes in that direction, no matter how much i open my chest out or adjust my arm. you might just be onto something here!!! il have to try point it at off stump and see what happens.

i had a practice today in the nets bowling to my brother. for anyone who remembers my first posts on here i was bowling at my brother all the time when i started before i bowled by myself (about 6 weeks ago). he used to slog every ball all over the place and i could never beat him with the ball. we were both bored today so had a play at the nets, 95% of my deliveries were well bowled in everything except for line (they all had plenty of spin), i kept pitching it leg side. but he was struggling to play me big time! trying to play me off the back foot all the time when the ball was pitched up to be driven (he cant drive. at all), which resulted in lots of cramped up shots, lots of balls going skywards without any distance on them (easy catches), lots of edges when he tried to get forwards, i bowled him a couple of times and came close a few more. what a difference 6 weeks makes!

my sideways off spinning flipper is getting better, i bowled one absolute peach inline with off and it came back in 8-12" and absolutey zipped through and gave my brother a dead leg lol, it hit him in the thigh, the lack of back spin means it still bounces nicely! i think it could be a more useful delivery than a googly. it comes back in MORE because its easier to generate large amounts of spin. it also zips through at a lower trajectory. so the batsman has less time to adjust to it, so its almost always going to find a pad in front of the stumps, or the stumps themselves if its bowled well.

finally, ive got my release and revolutions on the ball spot on now. the ball absolutely rips most times, it doesnt always turn off the pitch (but then i supposed thats the nature of spin bowling, sometimes it just doesnt. 99% of what commentators called Warnes flipper or slider were actually just big leg breaks that skidded on when you watch the slow motion shots lol). the one thing they almost always do though is to drift and dip. sometimes pretty big! i had a couple move at least 18" today. and one of my off-spinning flippers drifted IN (i know, it should have gone the other way surely?) in the most bizarre fashion. it was gently drifting as soon as it left the hand, then about halfway down the pitch it drifted really big, like the wind had suddenly caught it, except there was nothing more than a gentle breeze, and then did what i expected off the pitch. it was strange for sure, i couldnt repeat it lol. the seam wasnt upright though, it came out angled, so maybe that had a part to play.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

just been watching the ashes coverage, and during lunch they ran a leg spin masterclass with Shane Warne!!

he was out on the wicket with Nasser Hussain presenting and he had Max Waller and Will Beer, 2 young county leg spinners with him to pass on some of his advice.

firstly, Shane Warne hasnt lost his touch at all! he still gets it turning big. the 2 youngsters were getting small amounts of turn, but fairly good accuracy on the few deliveries they bowled. neither of them has a wide range of variations, which is probably a good thing as it means they are obviously focussing on their leg breaks. they both had a wrong'un, but in fairness looking at their wrong'un and also Warnes, and how little it turned, i can bowl one with the same amount of turn when i go too far with my top spinner. so thats reassuring for me.

they also had a slider each, but its not what i think of as a slider (or how i bowl it), neither is Warnes. he doesnt use his leg break action turned inside out, he just slides his fingers over the back of the ball.

he then showed them the flipper and they both tried it, Will Beer was landing them well, he said he was planning to add the flipper over the winter. Max Waller wasnt so good, but if youve never bowled one before thats hardly suprising.

the rest of the masterclass was just words of Warne wisdom. some of it i had heard before (how to generate drift and dip for example - his response was to spin the ball hard), some of it was new and useful. he spoke about bowling around the wicket and why you would want to, and that was a very interesting insight. one thing in particular he said is that if youre bowling to a right hander from your normal position, then you go very wide on the crease over the wicket,the batsman has to turn to face you, and this closes his stance up. you then go round the wicket but its important to go as wide on the crease as you can for the biggest change in angle. the batsman then automatically has to open up his body to face your delivery, even more so if you drift the ball away further! this can then square the batsman up and make him vulnerable to the turn.

he said about not over using variations. he said his leg break was his best delivery, so he liked to use it as much as possible, then throw in a very occasional variation. the only time he used the variations more was if a batsman was playing his leg break comfortably and he would throw the wrong'un in more often to plant some seeds of doubt.

he also said some things about field placements. spin bowling is all about rhythm, and it takes time to find it. so its not a great idea to have close fielders in your opening overs as it puts pressure on you. if youve got the close fielders in and you dont find your rhythm instantly then a few runs might get hit, and then the captain will withdraw the fielder, and this sends a message to the batsman that he is on top. on the other hand, if you start with a ring field restricting the singles whilst you find your rhythm, THEN bring in the bat-pad or silly point, etc then you as the bowler have the momentum. youve got the batsman struggling and then youre piling the pressure on his shots.

finally the other thing i can remember is he spoke about how he developed his superb control of his deliveries, e.g. his accuracy. he said that he just used to practice for hours and hours with his brother. he basically supported the much-stated principle of learn to spin the ball hard, and then just practice by bowling every spare hour you get and the accuracy will come. he sort of said that spinning is the talent that not everyone is born with or can acquire, and once youve got that talent you have to make use of it by just practicing.

it was quite a useful 15 minute insight. for anyone who missed it youve missed out on a useful masterclass, not so much in technique but in tactics and mental method. ive got it recorded on Sky+ (apart from the first 2 mins because it didnt start recording properly), but i dont know if its possible for me to transfer that to the internet. we will have to see if anyone else sticks it on youtube in the coming days.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;360716 said:
do most people have there front foot pointing down the wicket in delivery?

I had always had it at an angle but this made me loose balance in the delivery which effected accuracy. I've recently changed to the foot pointing at the target and I'm able to stay upright and pivot easier but it does feel a little strange and forced. I was just wondering what others do and if this is orthodox. Either way I'll persist as I'm getting good results. I'm hoping I'll get used to it in time.

No, I point mine towards leg-side to obtain maximum pivot. This is the orthodox manner. If you look at the bowling actions of international leg-spinners you will see that most of them do this. The more effective pivot allows you to get more revs on the ball.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

doctortran;361355 said:
Hi all! I'm new to posting at these forums, but I have been reading every few months when I need some reassurance that there is another leg-spinner out there learning the craft too. You've been a great help.

Anyway I thought I'd make some suggestions. I went through this problem for a while and I think I might know what's going on.

Three things
1) Front foot should be pointing straight down the wicket. But you might have a different action. Try front leg pointing to 11 or even 10 o'clock - anywhere pointing on the off side might work. Also notice where your chest is... the concept of pointing your front leg relies on the premise that your chest moves too. Summarising - think about your front leg, be rigid with your front leg, but not with your upper body.

2) Back foot should be pointing to the off side - 3 o'clock to even 12 o'clock for the flipper. Warney has it at about 2:30.

3) Finally - where is your front leg in comparison to your back leg? Forget now where your feet are pointing. Think of where you place your front leg. Is it straight in front of your left leg? Or is it to the right, so you can spin over your front leg? In theory bowling over your front leg moves it more to off - where as having one leg directly in front of the other is used to bowl around the legs. This is where I had my problem.

Hope this helps!

im not entirely sure where my feet point, because its not something ive ever really analysed in depth. its something il have a look at, as well as chest position. with regards foot placement, ive varied it quite a lot. ive tried putting my front foot across to the leg side, so that it forces me to rotate more, i probably find this the most successful for getting the ball onto the off side. ive also tried feet in a straight line, and front foot on the off side opening by body up. the latter is the least accurate of all the methods, but none of them are particularly consistent. i need to find a method that works well and i feel comfortable with and then just practice it to find rhythm.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

W'hey I'm back in action, went to the hospital and the bloke said the dislocation is fine and that I just need to exercise the ligaments and get them back into shape. Went straight home and bowled for an hour or so and did exceptionally well, noticed that some of my balls do drift, one was pitched just wide of the off-stump, it drifted in landed just outside of Leg Stump came back in off the wicket and hit middle and off! I was Shane Warne!!! LOL!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I only saw about 5 minutes of the masterclass. I think there was no co-ordination between what warne was trying to show and the camera work.

Their googlies did not turn much, and warnies was nearly worse than mine. Beer seems to have good accuracy, and spun it more than I had seen him in a one dayer. Waller seemed very excited and is not as accurate. I was surprised that someone at county level ie Waller did not know how to bowl a flipper! I am aghast that he seemed to have no idea of this ball. What was impressive was the speed with which they, especially warne bowl. Mine are really pies in comparison. The thing that impressed me most though was the fast turn, and this is where I suspect a strong wrist action comes into it. I would get more turn but one that is slower off the pitch, which as grimmett says is no good i am afraid. Interesting to see the turn without a batsman though.The slider, to be fair Warne showed the jenner backspinner, but then seemed to have another one that looks like a leg cutter. It looks like what Kaneria calls his flipper on you tube. All in all the part I saw was good, but dissapointed by the poor camera work

Oh, and it was funny to see hussein try to flick a flipper, I thought he used to dabble in some leg spin himself.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;360734 said:
No, I point mine towards leg-side to obtain maximum pivot. This is the orthodox manner. If you look at the bowling actions of international leg-spinners you will see that most of them do this. The more effective pivot allows you to get more revs on the ball.

Towards leg-side to get more revs. That is what we do as well.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I always thought that pointing the foot leg side was the othodox way and it always felt more natural. I changed this due to the falling over problem. I had a mini session today and I'm not sure if this is the solution

can I ask when you all pivot do you go up on your toes in the delivery or in the follow through? I've looked at stills of warne and Mcgill and they seem to change constantly. warne in particular seems to have planted foot quite far into his action. I think going up on my toes earlier may help me go forward instead of to the side.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

cool, they have stuck the video on the website, thats good news for anyone that missed it. i agree that the camera work wasnt great, i dont think we missed much though, they barely bowled any deliveries. the more interesting aspect was the verbal insight from Warne into spin bowling. his youtube video from the Ashes in Australia in 2006/07 is far better for the technical aspects of his bowling.

with regards Beer and Waller and not knowing variations, id imagine that is the product of the way they have learnt their trade. they have both come through county academies from a young age, and have learnt whatever they have been taught. they are now first teamers and probably left more to their own devices, so now they can ply their trade. im not sure on the specific history of Warne, but i wouldnt bet against him being similar, i doubt he had the full range of variations at the age of 20 either. i think at the level these guys play at its essential to have the leg break absolutely nailed before you even consider anything else. its a different class of batsman compared to club level which ultimately id imagine is where all of us are at? (i dont know the background on everyone else in this thread, so i cant comment for sure).

id imagine its easy for a good club leg spinner to watch a video like that and say "is that all they can do? i can bowl a better legbreak than that and ive got all the variations as well!! how comes they play county and i dont?". maybe there is more to it than that, or maybe leg spin is still so misunderstood by coaches that a specialist leg spin bowler stands little chance of getting anywhere unless they are either a batsman as well, or were recruited into a county academy from a young age for displaying an overall ability in cricket, and have then been allowed to develop their leg spin speciality from within. ive heard about a couple of decent young leg spinners at club level who are on the perimeter of the county radar and have represented their county at youth level. they are also excellent seam bowlers, and excellent batsmen within their age group as well though!! if they were JUST a leggie, would anyone even give them a second glance? who knows.

i know that ive got zero experience and very poor consistency and accuracy, so its not something that affects me. but its something i could see bothering and hindering bowlers that are at a higher level than my own and still playing club cricket. i wonder how far down the club cricket ladder counties look for potential players? or if they ever even bother with players that are past youth level?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah my pivot foot point towards the legside. One thing I do is that I step right out into the middle of the wicket YouTube - Big Wrong Un right in front of the stumps with my pivot foot, but our coach said this wasn't a good thing and that I should bowl wider of the stumps. Any thoughts on this?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;360624 said:
Macca do you know how much training Warne would have done during the height of his career?

I am not sure. He always had plenty of time as he never really had a "proper job" in his life. He worked long hours to crack the flipper.
His coaches like potter, simpson and jenner reckoned he worked hard at various periods.
When he was at his peak he was overbowled and more injury prone so he may not have done as much then.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;361441 said:
they also had a slider each, but its not what i think of as a slider (or how i bowl it), neither is Warnes. he doesnt use his leg break action turned inside out, he just slides his fingers over the back of the ball.
.

So this is just like bowling a seam up delivery but with the seam and fingers like our normal grip?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;360744 said:
I am not sure. He always had plenty of time as he never really had a "proper job" in his life. He worked long hours to crack the flipper.
His coaches like potter, simpson and jenner reckoned he worked hard at various periods.
When he was at his peak he was overbowled and more injury prone so he may not have done as much then.

I haven't got a clue what a pro cricketers training program is like, but you kind of get the impression that our lot do loads of gym work as well as actual skills practice/training. If it's anything like our pro soccer players it's not a lot, but I'd like to know how much from someone.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;361499 said:
I only saw about 5 minutes of the masterclass. I think there was no co-ordination between what warne was trying to show and the camera work.

Their googlies did not turn much, and warnies was nearly worse than mine. Beer seems to have good accuracy, and spun it more than I had seen him in a one dayer. Waller seemed very excited and is not as accurate. I was surprised that someone at county level ie Waller did not know how to bowl a flipper! I am aghast that he seemed to have no idea of this ball.

Oh, and it was funny to see hussein try to flick a flipper, I thought he used to dabble in some leg spin himself.

See I told you, these people as are most wrist spinners absolutely clueless beyond, the Leg Break, Wrong Un and Top-spinner, they've never read a book in thier lives and they'd never lower themselves to go on-line and look at what's on offer and no doubt their coaches probably tell them never to look at all the crap that's on-line because we're a bunch of clueless Gerbils! (And maybe we'd undermine what they're saying)?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;360742 said:
I always thought that pointing the foot leg side was the othodox way and it always felt more natural. I changed this due to the falling over problem. I had a mini session today and I'm not sure if this is the solution

can I ask when you all pivot do you go up on your toes in the delivery or in the follow through? I've looked at stills of warne and Mcgill and they seem to change constantly. warne in particular seems to have planted foot quite far into his action. I think going up on my toes earlier may help me go forward instead of to the side.

I think you might be agonising about the details too much? Just make sure the action feels smooth and steady, what is it that you're looking to improve through these slight tweaks?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;361511 said:
So this is just like bowling a seam up delivery but with the seam and fingers like our normal grip?

essentially, yeh. you hold it with our normal grip but drag your hand down behind it. personally id call it an arm ball, my idea of what a slider is is VERY different. Warne even said that sometimes he would hold the ball cross seam, so then it is literally a low speed seam delivery with more backspin.

my idea of a slider is a genuine back spinner delivered using the round-the-loop method. its tough to bowl it straight though, maybe impossible? im not far enough into using it yet to know if it has a purpose as a straight on delivery, possibly not. most times it will turn, sometimes VERY sharply. but the fact i never know what its going to do means the batsman has no chance lol
 
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