Virendersingh.berthwal
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
U had asked the same yesterday...he had mentioned a name.
U had asked the same yesterday...he had mentioned a name.
Wrist Spin Bowling
- Thread starter someblokecalleddave
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someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Hold both hands out in front of you and flick the ball from one hand to the other putting spin on it and catch it. That's you bog standard leg break action and it's what you should be doing all the time using apples, oranges, golf balls etc sitting in class, on the train etc. Now with the same flick action instead of spinning the ball across in front of your body - flick the ball so that it spins backwards into your chest so that you catch it as it almost hits your chest. So you use an outstreched arm and flick the ball back into yourself (Not from one side to the other) inwards. The affect is that you put backspin on it. It's that backspin wrist action that will mean your piddly little Leg Break will now become a big F**k Off monster of a Leg Break if you can master the action. Philpott - He's the Man!!
Added 3 minute(s) and 18 second(s) later...
To get the book go on
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Art-Wrist-Spin-Bowling-Peter-Philpott/dp/1861260636/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215643594&sr=1-3[/ame]
or
[ame]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Wrist-Spin-Bowling/dp/1861260636/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215643684&sr=1-11[/ame]
Ripping-LegBreak;27095 said:
Hold both hands out in front of you and flick the ball from one hand to the other putting spin on it and catch it. That's you bog standard leg break action and it's what you should be doing all the time using apples, oranges, golf balls etc sitting in class, on the train etc. Now with the same flick action instead of spinning the ball across in front of your body - flick the ball so that it spins backwards into your chest so that you catch it as it almost hits your chest. So you use an outstreched arm and flick the ball back into yourself (Not from one side to the other) inwards. The affect is that you put backspin on it. It's that backspin wrist action that will mean your piddly little Leg Break will now become a big F**k Off monster of a Leg Break if you can master the action. Philpott - He's the Man!!
Added 3 minute(s) and 18 second(s) later...
To get the book go on
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Art-Wrist-Spin-Bowling-Peter-Philpott/dp/1861260636/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215643594&sr=1-3[/ame]
or
[ame]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Wrist-Spin-Bowling/dp/1861260636/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215643684&sr=1-11[/ame]
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
If you're in the UK, you can find a link to the Philpott book [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1861260636?&camp=2486&linkCode=wey&tag=simplycricket-21&creative=8882"]here[/ame].
I got my copy the other day (along with about 10 other books) and I'm slowly making my way through it, although I'm trying to finish a couple of others first.
It looks pretty decent though and the main thing that has come through so far is that the author is passionate about wrist spin, which is a good thing.
From having a glance through the book, I reckon I've picked up a key, but oft overlooked tip and that is to try and be fluid in your action. Too stiff and it's just not going to happen.
Basit770;27173 said:
If you're in the UK, you can find a link to the Philpott book [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1861260636?&camp=2486&linkCode=wey&tag=simplycricket-21&creative=8882"]here[/ame].
I got my copy the other day (along with about 10 other books) and I'm slowly making my way through it, although I'm trying to finish a couple of others first.
It looks pretty decent though and the main thing that has come through so far is that the author is passionate about wrist spin, which is a good thing.
From having a glance through the book, I reckon I've picked up a key, but oft overlooked tip and that is to try and be fluid in your action. Too stiff and it's just not going to happen.
Ripping-LegBreak
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
ok that under arm things confusing, so if i want to bowl a big leg break my wrist cocks back naturally with the whole palm facing the batsmen, so im going round the ball not over it?
ok that under arm things confusing, so if i want to bowl a big leg break my wrist cocks back naturally with the whole palm facing the batsmen, so im going round the ball not over it?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah round the ball sounds like you're on your way. I think some of the others need to chip in here if they've read the book and made sense of it. As I've said I've bowled the wrong un one too many times and no matter what I do the ball comes out of the back of my hand seemingly every single time and spins from off to leg - so I can't bowl Leg Breaks. But after reading the book I followed all the instructions, stopped bowling wrong uns and went through all the procedures and for a couple of days was able to bowl leg breaks BIG. My recollection was that at the point of releasing the ball yes the palm of my hand but more of the outer side of my hand was facing the batsman as it came over my head because of the amount of spinning inwards (Backwards) that generated was what put the massive side/back spin on the ball ensuring that it turned in BIG.
We've had this discussion on here before and I'm the first to put my hand up and say "Whoa - I'm no expert"! But loads of people were at odds with this as a technique to get the ball to turn BIG and seemed to not get it at all. I think if you already bowl a half decent Leg Break and Philpotts book only serves to confuse you - especially this spinning in towards yourself aspect - leave it, stick to what you do (Especially if you're taking wickets). I think it takes "obsession" to take on board what he's saying and apply it to your bowling. Fortunately I do "Obsession" and it's a part of my character. Come Oct when most UK cricket players are pulling on their football/Rugby boots I'll return to Philpotts book once again and will spend the whole of this winter following the instructions page by page, technique after technique, ball after ball, hour after hour in all weather conditions until I can bowl the BIG leg Break. If you haven't got the dedication and passion I think the book may do more to disillusion you? I think when he's talking about practicing he's talking every day for hours and hours with total concentration not just here and there.
Ripping-LegBreak;27213 said:
Yeah round the ball sounds like you're on your way. I think some of the others need to chip in here if they've read the book and made sense of it. As I've said I've bowled the wrong un one too many times and no matter what I do the ball comes out of the back of my hand seemingly every single time and spins from off to leg - so I can't bowl Leg Breaks. But after reading the book I followed all the instructions, stopped bowling wrong uns and went through all the procedures and for a couple of days was able to bowl leg breaks BIG. My recollection was that at the point of releasing the ball yes the palm of my hand but more of the outer side of my hand was facing the batsman as it came over my head because of the amount of spinning inwards (Backwards) that generated was what put the massive side/back spin on the ball ensuring that it turned in BIG.
We've had this discussion on here before and I'm the first to put my hand up and say "Whoa - I'm no expert"! But loads of people were at odds with this as a technique to get the ball to turn BIG and seemed to not get it at all. I think if you already bowl a half decent Leg Break and Philpotts book only serves to confuse you - especially this spinning in towards yourself aspect - leave it, stick to what you do (Especially if you're taking wickets). I think it takes "obsession" to take on board what he's saying and apply it to your bowling. Fortunately I do "Obsession" and it's a part of my character. Come Oct when most UK cricket players are pulling on their football/Rugby boots I'll return to Philpotts book once again and will spend the whole of this winter following the instructions page by page, technique after technique, ball after ball, hour after hour in all weather conditions until I can bowl the BIG leg Break. If you haven't got the dedication and passion I think the book may do more to disillusion you? I think when he's talking about practicing he's talking every day for hours and hours with total concentration not just here and there.
Ripping-LegBreak
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
after reading his book i was more devoted to legspin as today for the first time i practiced 4 hours in the nets, i was getting turn and bounce still with the over spiner. Dave this is my natural release. The whole palm faces the batsmen then i flick my hand and third finger over the top of the ball so my thumb faces the slips. If i try any variation i lose my rhythm. Today my accuracy was good. i practiced minor variations as philpott mentioned like the angle of crease, and varied my pace. I found if i want to bowl quicker i use my shoulder more. theres one thing i like about philpott in the book. he recommends if u find the slingy round arm action comfortable then use it. But my coach condems this action but i think the round arm action is good for me as im short for my age and it helps me to follow through.
after reading his book i was more devoted to legspin as today for the first time i practiced 4 hours in the nets, i was getting turn and bounce still with the over spiner. Dave this is my natural release. The whole palm faces the batsmen then i flick my hand and third finger over the top of the ball so my thumb faces the slips. If i try any variation i lose my rhythm. Today my accuracy was good. i practiced minor variations as philpott mentioned like the angle of crease, and varied my pace. I found if i want to bowl quicker i use my shoulder more. theres one thing i like about philpott in the book. he recommends if u find the slingy round arm action comfortable then use it. But my coach condems this action but i think the round arm action is good for me as im short for my age and it helps me to follow through.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Shane Warne and Terry Jenner say the same thing in roundabout ways too. If you've got a way of bowling and it works and you take wickets keep it, Philpott talks about several bowlers from the past that have all sorts of weird techniques and run ins and as you've said - he says not to worry about that, as long as you can give the ball that big flick and make it turn off the pitch and place it on a line and length you're going to take wickets. It's a brilliant book and once the winters here I'm going to try once again to try and get the Leg Break back! Good to hear you're bowling well - and look after your shoulder!
Shane Warne and Terry Jenner say the same thing in roundabout ways too. If you've got a way of bowling and it works and you take wickets keep it, Philpott talks about several bowlers from the past that have all sorts of weird techniques and run ins and as you've said - he says not to worry about that, as long as you can give the ball that big flick and make it turn off the pitch and place it on a line and length you're going to take wickets. It's a brilliant book and once the winters here I'm going to try once again to try and get the Leg Break back! Good to hear you're bowling well - and look after your shoulder!
Virendersingh.berthwal
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
ZZA,
The books refers something to which ur coach does not agree.
This will put u in spot of bother so my advise is to listen to ur coach and practice but when u practice try the different skills to do a self analysis about that particular delivery.
The book should gide u to the basics of spin bowling and not confuse u.
If u have a natural bowling action and getting accuracy and wickets then stick to it...only minor adjustments can be made as u practice on and on.
Dave,
I am surprised and sad to read that ur leg spin is not coming easily.I would presonally advise to start the leg spin straight away instead of waiting till October.If their is diffculty in practice then start "Spot Bowling" with the tennis ball first.
From that work ur hands and fingers movement and when u r confident then start with the Cricket ball.
U have prepared wicket to practice.
Overall "Spot Bowling" is the best way to develop ur bowling skills and then u can have a batsmen to play against ur spin bowling.
ZZA,
The books refers something to which ur coach does not agree.
This will put u in spot of bother so my advise is to listen to ur coach and practice but when u practice try the different skills to do a self analysis about that particular delivery.
The book should gide u to the basics of spin bowling and not confuse u.
If u have a natural bowling action and getting accuracy and wickets then stick to it...only minor adjustments can be made as u practice on and on.
Dave,
I am surprised and sad to read that ur leg spin is not coming easily.I would presonally advise to start the leg spin straight away instead of waiting till October.If their is diffculty in practice then start "Spot Bowling" with the tennis ball first.
From that work ur hands and fingers movement and when u r confident then start with the Cricket ball.
U have prepared wicket to practice.
Overall "Spot Bowling" is the best way to develop ur bowling skills and then u can have a batsmen to play against ur spin bowling.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Virender, I'm devastated that I can't bowl effective Leg Breaks. As I've said on here so many times I can bowl virtually every other delivery (Supposedly all the difficult ones) but the basic Leg Break alludes me. I can bowl a unique ball I call the "Gipper" which is a variation of the basic flipper but with my arm and wrist contorted so that the ball comes out of the hand spinning towards off from being pitched down leg and it turns massively sometimes. If I had some kind of way of video-ing it I would, but I haven't.
http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2008/04/leg-spin-new-variation-gipper.html
http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2008/04/rain.html
Although I've been practicing with this variation since early in the year, it's still in the development stages and I'm not quite at a stage where I feel confident to use it in a match. But it's potentially a replacement for the Leg Break.
But saying that I would still love to bowl the stock ball Leg Break and be good at it. But I know it's going to take starting over as Philpott suggests right from the start and working from the beginning to recover it. All the time I'm playing games at the weekend I need to be able to bowl well in order to keep my place in the team, so that means continuing to bowl Wrong Uns, Top Spinners, Doosra's, Flippers etc. It's going to take weeks of practice to get the Leg Break back and therefore I've got to wait for the season to finish in order that I don't ever have to bowl wrong uns and top spinners again so I can concentrate fully on recovering the Leg Break.
Virendersingh.berthwal;27308 said:
Virender, I'm devastated that I can't bowl effective Leg Breaks. As I've said on here so many times I can bowl virtually every other delivery (Supposedly all the difficult ones) but the basic Leg Break alludes me. I can bowl a unique ball I call the "Gipper" which is a variation of the basic flipper but with my arm and wrist contorted so that the ball comes out of the hand spinning towards off from being pitched down leg and it turns massively sometimes. If I had some kind of way of video-ing it I would, but I haven't.
http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2008/04/leg-spin-new-variation-gipper.html
http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2008/04/rain.html
Although I've been practicing with this variation since early in the year, it's still in the development stages and I'm not quite at a stage where I feel confident to use it in a match. But it's potentially a replacement for the Leg Break.
But saying that I would still love to bowl the stock ball Leg Break and be good at it. But I know it's going to take starting over as Philpott suggests right from the start and working from the beginning to recover it. All the time I'm playing games at the weekend I need to be able to bowl well in order to keep my place in the team, so that means continuing to bowl Wrong Uns, Top Spinners, Doosra's, Flippers etc. It's going to take weeks of practice to get the Leg Break back and therefore I've got to wait for the season to finish in order that I don't ever have to bowl wrong uns and top spinners again so I can concentrate fully on recovering the Leg Break.
Ripping-LegBreak
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
dave did u lose your leg break, or you just cant bowl one. Theres some ppl who try to bowl leg spin but they bowl big googlies lol they just cant bowl leg breaks. Kind of funny when people think legspin is an easy art.
dave did u lose your leg break, or you just cant bowl one. Theres some ppl who try to bowl leg spin but they bowl big googlies lol they just cant bowl leg breaks. Kind of funny when people think legspin is an easy art.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I started off with it and could always do it and was okay. All the time I was unaware of what a Wrong Un was everything was fine and then I decided that I'd learn how to bowl wrong uns. Initially I couldn't do it, but then I became obsessed with the idea of being able to and I spent weeks and weeks trying to get it, completely neglecting the Leg Break. After months I sussed it and then realised I couldn't bowl my leg breaks anymore. I didn't realise that this was a common feature of learning the wrong un and just thought it was a temporary thing. It's not. It seems if you bowl primarily Wrong Uns it's the case that you can't just simply revert back to being a good Leg Break bowler, you either do one or the other. Therefore the advice is if you're learning the wrong un YOU MUST STILL CARRY ON BOWLING LEG BREAKS and the consensus is that it's a very high % of Leg Breaks and very few wrong uns.
I think it's to do with training your brain to do something that's difficult (The wrong un) you can do it so much that you then put down a physical response and reflex that's stored by your brain as being the natural and correct way and it feels right. So then when you try and do the opposite the leg break it doesn't happen. Philpott towards the end of the book writes about this saying how common it is amongst Leg Break bowlers that bowl the wrong un too much when learning it like i did. He says the only way you can correct it is start at the very beginning and re-learn the Leg Break. I've done it once - http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2008/05/good-leg-break-day.html
But straight after I reverted back to bowling primarily wrong uns and lost it again. Hence the reason I'll be doing nothing over the winter apart from re-learning bowling Leg breaks. It will happen!
I started off with it and could always do it and was okay. All the time I was unaware of what a Wrong Un was everything was fine and then I decided that I'd learn how to bowl wrong uns. Initially I couldn't do it, but then I became obsessed with the idea of being able to and I spent weeks and weeks trying to get it, completely neglecting the Leg Break. After months I sussed it and then realised I couldn't bowl my leg breaks anymore. I didn't realise that this was a common feature of learning the wrong un and just thought it was a temporary thing. It's not. It seems if you bowl primarily Wrong Uns it's the case that you can't just simply revert back to being a good Leg Break bowler, you either do one or the other. Therefore the advice is if you're learning the wrong un YOU MUST STILL CARRY ON BOWLING LEG BREAKS and the consensus is that it's a very high % of Leg Breaks and very few wrong uns.
I think it's to do with training your brain to do something that's difficult (The wrong un) you can do it so much that you then put down a physical response and reflex that's stored by your brain as being the natural and correct way and it feels right. So then when you try and do the opposite the leg break it doesn't happen. Philpott towards the end of the book writes about this saying how common it is amongst Leg Break bowlers that bowl the wrong un too much when learning it like i did. He says the only way you can correct it is start at the very beginning and re-learn the Leg Break. I've done it once - http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2008/05/good-leg-break-day.html
But straight after I reverted back to bowling primarily wrong uns and lost it again. Hence the reason I'll be doing nothing over the winter apart from re-learning bowling Leg breaks. It will happen!
Basit770
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I am confuzzled :S. I just heard about the different kinds of leg breaks and about overspin n side spin. Why don't shane warne or terry jenner mention these in their videos?? Can someone please explian the difference between these 2 balls and how to bowl each one.
Thanks!
I am confuzzled :S. I just heard about the different kinds of leg breaks and about overspin n side spin. Why don't shane warne or terry jenner mention these in their videos?? Can someone please explian the difference between these 2 balls and how to bowl each one.
Thanks!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Because those videos are primarily aimed at young kids and people that are just starting out. Just listen to what Warne says at the end of the Mark Nicholas interview at the Gabba - 5.48 into the interview Warne says "Children trying to bowl Leg Breaks" and then again at 7.47 he says "And for the Dads watching try and give them lots of encouragement and try and get them to spin the ball".
Whereas the Philpott book is a lot more indepth. In those videos it would be far too much to start talking about the fact that there are so many variations of the 5 basic variations. They're just starters guides.
Added 5 minute(s) and 1 second(s) later...
Basit, have you got the book? If not you need to read it. It would take ages to try and get across what he suggests, you need to read the book from front to back and it all becomes clear -especially if you actually follow the instructions and do all the exercises that he suggests you do. It's a brilliant book and it makes you realise how complex a subject Wrist Spin bowling is and how multi-dimensional.
Because those videos are primarily aimed at young kids and people that are just starting out. Just listen to what Warne says at the end of the Mark Nicholas interview at the Gabba - 5.48 into the interview Warne says "Children trying to bowl Leg Breaks" and then again at 7.47 he says "And for the Dads watching try and give them lots of encouragement and try and get them to spin the ball".
Whereas the Philpott book is a lot more indepth. In those videos it would be far too much to start talking about the fact that there are so many variations of the 5 basic variations. They're just starters guides.
Added 5 minute(s) and 1 second(s) later...
Basit, have you got the book? If not you need to read it. It would take ages to try and get across what he suggests, you need to read the book from front to back and it all becomes clear -especially if you actually follow the instructions and do all the exercises that he suggests you do. It's a brilliant book and it makes you realise how complex a subject Wrist Spin bowling is and how multi-dimensional.
gundalf7
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
bassit over spin and top spin are the same things and it is quite easy to inter-mix them just by bowling with the wrist position between them. I've been bowling a lot more topspinners lately for practice and they are amazingly more effective if you mix them in with arm balls and flippers even on docile pitches
bassit over spin and top spin are the same things and it is quite easy to inter-mix them just by bowling with the wrist position between them. I've been bowling a lot more topspinners lately for practice and they are amazingly more effective if you mix them in with arm balls and flippers even on docile pitches
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Are you both left hand wrist spinners?
Are you both left hand wrist spinners?
Virendersingh.berthwal
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Dave,I read u r post and feel that if ur bowling variations are helping in matches then stick to it and then inthe off season u can practice the leg break and other variations.
Currently i also working on the leg spin in weekends but with a rubber ball and hopefully when the season starts in October i will be in rhytm and occured no problem for bowling.
When does the off season start and end in UK.
We have off season starting from May end till first of October.
Dave,I read u r post and feel that if ur bowling variations are helping in matches then stick to it and then inthe off season u can practice the leg break and other variations.
Currently i also working on the leg spin in weekends but with a rubber ball and hopefully when the season starts in October i will be in rhytm and occured no problem for bowling.
When does the off season start and end in UK.
We have off season starting from May end till first of October.
edladd
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Saw this today and thought it was interesting. It's from a really good blog that's worth a read anyway - http://cricketwithballs.blogspot.com/2008/07/field-for-legspinners-part-two.html
Basically this guy is explaining the field he uses for his leggies. Obviously it's specific to him, but it's interesting to see his observations on how club cricketers play spin.
Saw this today and thought it was interesting. It's from a really good blog that's worth a read anyway - http://cricketwithballs.blogspot.com/2008/07/field-for-legspinners-part-two.html
Basically this guy is explaining the field he uses for his leggies. Obviously it's specific to him, but it's interesting to see his observations on how club cricketers play spin.
Virendersingh.berthwal
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Thanks Ed for the post.
Only two fielding position he has not mentioned: Deep extra Cover and third man region considering a leg/left arm spinner.
The map can be considered as a basic field placing for leg/left arm spin and each one can change the field according to the game condition,bowling ability and batsmen's approach.
Thanks Ed for the post.
Only two fielding position he has not mentioned: Deep extra Cover and third man region considering a leg/left arm spinner.
The map can be considered as a basic field placing for leg/left arm spin and each one can change the field according to the game condition,bowling ability and batsmen's approach.
James P
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
My top spinner is my strongest variation and it's really effective after you've pushed the batsman back into his crease. Bowl it a tiny bit shorter than a leg break, the batsmans eyes will light up thinking it's a gimme but it bounces straight and a lot higher than normal and you can get a lot of edges or caught and bowled by the ball jumping up and surprising the batsman.
James P
gundalf7;27449 said:
My top spinner is my strongest variation and it's really effective after you've pushed the batsman back into his crease. Bowl it a tiny bit shorter than a leg break, the batsmans eyes will light up thinking it's a gimme but it bounces straight and a lot higher than normal and you can get a lot of edges or caught and bowled by the ball jumping up and surprising the batsman.
James P
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