Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

just been watching the ashes coverage, and during lunch they ran a leg spin masterclass with Shane Warne!!

he was out on the wicket with Nasser Hussain presenting and he had Max Waller and Will Beer, 2 young county leg spinners with him to pass on some of his advice.

firstly, Shane Warne hasnt lost his touch at all! he still gets it turning big. the 2 youngsters were getting small amounts of turn, but fairly good accuracy on the few deliveries they bowled. neither of them has a wide range of variations, which is probably a good thing as it means they are obviously focussing on their leg breaks. they both had a wrong'un, but in fairness looking at their wrong'un and also Warnes, and how little it turned, i can bowl one with the same amount of turn when i go too far with my top spinner. so thats reassuring for me.

they also had a slider each, but its not what i think of as a slider (or how i bowl it), neither is Warnes. he doesnt use his leg break action turned inside out, he just slides his fingers over the back of the ball.

he then showed them the flipper and they both tried it, Will Beer was landing them well, he said he was planning to add the flipper over the winter. Max Waller wasnt so good, but if youve never bowled one before thats hardly suprising.

the rest of the masterclass was just words of Warne wisdom. some of it i had heard before (how to generate drift and dip for example - his response was to spin the ball hard), some of it was new and useful. he spoke about bowling around the wicket and why you would want to, and that was a very interesting insight. one thing in particular he said is that if youre bowling to a right hander from your normal position, then you go very wide on the crease over the wicket,the batsman has to turn to face you, and this closes his stance up. you then go round the wicket but its important to go as wide on the crease as you can for the biggest change in angle. the batsman then automatically has to open up his body to face your delivery, even more so if you drift the ball away further! this can then square the batsman up and make him vulnerable to the turn.

he said about not over using variations. he said his leg break was his best delivery, so he liked to use it as much as possible, then throw in a very occasional variation. the only time he used the variations more was if a batsman was playing his leg break comfortably and he would throw the wrong'un in more often to plant some seeds of doubt.

he also said some things about field placements. spin bowling is all about rhythm, and it takes time to find it. so its not a great idea to have close fielders in your opening overs as it puts pressure on you. if youve got the close fielders in and you dont find your rhythm instantly then a few runs might get hit, and then the captain will withdraw the fielder, and this sends a message to the batsman that he is on top. on the other hand, if you start with a ring field restricting the singles whilst you find your rhythm, THEN bring in the bat-pad or silly point, etc then you as the bowler have the momentum. youve got the batsman struggling and then youre piling the pressure on his shots.

finally the other thing i can remember is he spoke about how he developed his superb control of his deliveries, e.g. his accuracy. he said that he just used to practice for hours and hours with his brother. he basically supported the much-stated principle of learn to spin the ball hard, and then just practice by bowling every spare hour you get and the accuracy will come. he sort of said that spinning is the talent that not everyone is born with or can acquire, and once youve got that talent you have to make use of it by just practicing.

it was quite a useful 15 minute insight. for anyone who missed it youve missed out on a useful masterclass, not so much in technique but in tactics and mental method. ive got it recorded on Sky+ (apart from the first 2 mins because it didnt start recording properly), but i dont know if its possible for me to transfer that to the internet. we will have to see if anyone else sticks it on youtube in the coming days.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;362054 said:
I know this is off topic slightly, but in reposnse to an earlier posting by Jim.




Jim here's something you might want to have a look at

"The viewing figures tell the story plainly. For the final Oval Test which sealed England's great Ashes victory in 2005, Channel 4's free-to-air coverage averaged just short of 3m people, and a triumphant 7.2m peak in the final quarter of an hour when the Test was won. On Sunday, Sky's Oval coverage attracted an average of 856,000 viewers, and a peak, at 5.45pm, of 1.9m - remarkable for pay TV cricket, but not a great chunk of the nation".

This is a small section from here England's glorious Ashes win makes the case for cricket to be on free-to-air TV | David Conn | Sport | guardian.co.uk

as a subscriber of Sky though the viewing figures dont concern me too much, thats a problem for the ECB. as a viewer, id rather have watched state of the art Sky coverage than have to make do with a cheap terrestrial offering.

the figures are potentially one sided as well. firstly, the Ashes were much earlier in the year this time around, in peak holiday and wedding time no less. couple that with the Formula 1 on BBC at the same time, as well as a pair of football matches on Sky Sports at the same time. there is much less to do in September, not forgetting that the kids are back at school so nobody is away on holiday or quite as busy with other commitments.

the other huge contributing factor is that last time around the final match went to the 5th day. everyone knew that there would be a result one way or another on that day. this time around it was the 4th day and Australia had looked very good with the bat at the end of day 3. lots of people were already talking on Sunday about "England have lost it again, Australia are too good", etc without even giving it a chance. plus youve also got the lessened excitement this time because England had already won the Ashes 4 years earlier. prior to 2005 it had been 18 years in coming.

so im not sure those figures give anything like a balanced comparison. sure, its very clear that a fair number of people were unable to follow the cricket because they dont have Sky. but at the same time, there are still plenty of people that do. and i would rather watch it on Sky than anything else, as would many customers, hence why Sky paid the money to buy the coverage. its all well and good saying "it should be on terrestrial, why have the ECB allowed it to end up on Sky", but where were the BBC/C4/ITV/C5 when the bidding was being done to buy the rights? the ECB are all about the money, if you want to contest their reasons for selling the Ashes to Sky until 2013 then also ask why T20 is now dominating cricket at the expense of the full length game!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

doctortran;361355 said:
Hi all! I'm new to posting at these forums, but I have been reading every few months when I need some reassurance that there is another leg-spinner out there learning the craft too. You've been a great help.

Anyway I thought I'd make some suggestions. I went through this problem for a while and I think I might know what's going on.

Three things
1) Front foot should be pointing straight down the wicket. But you might have a different action. Try front leg pointing to 11 or even 10 o'clock - anywhere pointing on the off side might work. Also notice where your chest is... the concept of pointing your front leg relies on the premise that your chest moves too. Summarising - think about your front leg, be rigid with your front leg, but not with your upper body.

2) Back foot should be pointing to the off side - 3 o'clock to even 12 o'clock for the flipper. Warney has it at about 2:30.

3) Finally - where is your front leg in comparison to your back leg? Forget now where your feet are pointing. Think of where you place your front leg. Is it straight in front of your left leg? Or is it to the right, so you can spin over your front leg? In theory bowling over your front leg moves it more to off - where as having one leg directly in front of the other is used to bowl around the legs. This is where I had my problem.

Hope this helps!

im not entirely sure where my feet point, because its not something ive ever really analysed in depth. its something il have a look at, as well as chest position. with regards foot placement, ive varied it quite a lot. ive tried putting my front foot across to the leg side, so that it forces me to rotate more, i probably find this the most successful for getting the ball onto the off side. ive also tried feet in a straight line, and front foot on the off side opening by body up. the latter is the least accurate of all the methods, but none of them are particularly consistent. i need to find a method that works well and i feel comfortable with and then just practice it to find rhythm.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I subscribed to sky sports for the length of the ashes test series and cancelled it on Monday. Which means it cost me about £30 quid for the five tests plus some footy that was on a good handful of pro40 games. In all I'd say I got value for money.

The coverage on sky is first class no one can deny that but Channel 4 did a great job last time around and technology has come along way in a short space of time hence sky being even better this time around.

It's sad to admit but football dominates the media’s thoughts throughout the year even during an ashes summer. Cricket simply doesn't have the same draw as football for the terrestrial channels to compete with the money offered by sky.

Whether we like it or not cricket appears to be a minority sport in England and I think we may all just have to get used to it being on sky.

I would say though that the amount of county championship coverage is rubbish. I can’t see why there is no match of the day type program for this on terrestrial television. Is it any wonder that people haven’t been able to have a good look at someone like Adil Rashid.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I only saw about 5 minutes of the masterclass. I think there was no co-ordination between what warne was trying to show and the camera work.

Their googlies did not turn much, and warnies was nearly worse than mine. Beer seems to have good accuracy, and spun it more than I had seen him in a one dayer. Waller seemed very excited and is not as accurate. I was surprised that someone at county level ie Waller did not know how to bowl a flipper! I am aghast that he seemed to have no idea of this ball. What was impressive was the speed with which they, especially warne bowl. Mine are really pies in comparison. The thing that impressed me most though was the fast turn, and this is where I suspect a strong wrist action comes into it. I would get more turn but one that is slower off the pitch, which as grimmett says is no good i am afraid. Interesting to see the turn without a batsman though.The slider, to be fair Warne showed the jenner backspinner, but then seemed to have another one that looks like a leg cutter. It looks like what Kaneria calls his flipper on you tube. All in all the part I saw was good, but dissapointed by the poor camera work

Oh, and it was funny to see hussein try to flick a flipper, I thought he used to dabble in some leg spin himself.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I reckon we should call it quits on this conversation as it's off subject a bit and maybe carry it on elsewhere? Although I'm happy to leave it at that.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've had a rather disappointing time in terms of my wrist spin recently. Unfortunately, in addition to my inconsistent accuracy, I have gained a rather undesirable consistency; I can now hardly ever turn the ball properly.

Luckily though, I think I've identified the problem as pushing the ball out of my hand, rather than rolling it out with my fingers and wrist in the correct manner, as I seemed to make some progress on this during my last net session. Thus, it is not quite all doom and gloom on the bowling front(plus my square turning off-breaks are providing quite the consolation).
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

cool, they have stuck the video on the website, thats good news for anyone that missed it. i agree that the camera work wasnt great, i dont think we missed much though, they barely bowled any deliveries. the more interesting aspect was the verbal insight from Warne into spin bowling. his youtube video from the Ashes in Australia in 2006/07 is far better for the technical aspects of his bowling.

with regards Beer and Waller and not knowing variations, id imagine that is the product of the way they have learnt their trade. they have both come through county academies from a young age, and have learnt whatever they have been taught. they are now first teamers and probably left more to their own devices, so now they can ply their trade. im not sure on the specific history of Warne, but i wouldnt bet against him being similar, i doubt he had the full range of variations at the age of 20 either. i think at the level these guys play at its essential to have the leg break absolutely nailed before you even consider anything else. its a different class of batsman compared to club level which ultimately id imagine is where all of us are at? (i dont know the background on everyone else in this thread, so i cant comment for sure).

id imagine its easy for a good club leg spinner to watch a video like that and say "is that all they can do? i can bowl a better legbreak than that and ive got all the variations as well!! how comes they play county and i dont?". maybe there is more to it than that, or maybe leg spin is still so misunderstood by coaches that a specialist leg spin bowler stands little chance of getting anywhere unless they are either a batsman as well, or were recruited into a county academy from a young age for displaying an overall ability in cricket, and have then been allowed to develop their leg spin speciality from within. ive heard about a couple of decent young leg spinners at club level who are on the perimeter of the county radar and have represented their county at youth level. they are also excellent seam bowlers, and excellent batsmen within their age group as well though!! if they were JUST a leggie, would anyone even give them a second glance? who knows.

i know that ive got zero experience and very poor consistency and accuracy, so its not something that affects me. but its something i could see bothering and hindering bowlers that are at a higher level than my own and still playing club cricket. i wonder how far down the club cricket ladder counties look for potential players? or if they ever even bother with players that are past youth level?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;362060 said:
as a subscriber of Sky though the viewing figures dont concern me too much, thats a problem for the ECB. as a viewer, id rather have watched state of the art Sky coverage than have to make do with a cheap terrestrial offering.

My comment is as on ousider and will stop at that, as it is completely off topic. In my opinion the above comment is very egoistic and egocentric. People have priorities in life and some may not afford buying out a susbscription. It is as though you are saying people who are unemployed have no right to eat as they do not have money. Certain events that are of public interest eg the final of the world cup, a deciding series in the ashes etc should by law be free to air and legislated for.It is not fair that less affluent people have no right to see the events, while the richer can. But after all the society is that way as long as I am ok, f'""k you jack. Thank god there is the net and alternatives can be found. I am sorry but these people are parasites and just interested in getting richer not in enhancing the general population's culture. Apparently even the times on line is going to be against payment. I think in conclusion, certain events of national interest should be aired free to air. I prefer seeing something of a slightly inferior quality that is accessable to many, then something in very high tech that is seen by a very small minority. The people with a subscription can obviously see all the test matches in the world but the ashes, I think should be free to air.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;362074 said:
I've had a rather disappointing time in terms of my wrist spin recently. Unfortunately, in addition to my inconsistent accuracy, I have gained a rather undesirable consistency; I can now hardly ever turn the ball properly.

Luckily though, I think I've identified the problem as pushing the ball out of my hand, rather than rolling it out with my fingers and wrist in the correct manner, as I seemed to make some progress on this during my last net session. Thus, it is not quite all doom and gloom on the bowling front(plus my square turning off-breaks are providing quite the consolation).

We all seem to go through these phases, a great session or two, then another that goes downhill. I always start bowling underarm again, to see what i am doing to get it to turn and then move overarm again. I think once we see the ball turn we get greedy and try too hard.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;361441 said:
they also had a slider each, but its not what i think of as a slider (or how i bowl it), neither is Warnes. he doesnt use his leg break action turned inside out, he just slides his fingers over the back of the ball.
.

So this is just like bowling a seam up delivery but with the seam and fingers like our normal grip?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;362074 said:
I've had a rather disappointing time in terms of my wrist spin recently. Unfortunately, in addition to my inconsistent accuracy, I have gained a rather undesirable consistency; I can now hardly ever turn the ball properly.

Luckily though, I think I've identified the problem as pushing the ball out of my hand, rather than rolling it out with my fingers and wrist in the correct manner, as I seemed to make some progress on this during my last net session. Thus, it is not quite all doom and gloom on the bowling front(plus my square turning off-breaks are providing quite the consolation).

is it possibly worth you trying to bowl top spinners for a while to regain the spinning action? i find that if i cant get the ball to spin particularly well, if i bowl top spin (or just leg breaks with lots of overspin) it forces the fingers to come over the ball and forces you to spin the ball. then go back to the normal action and your fingers remember what they should be doing again. its something that has worked for me on a couple of occasions, most notably when im playing after a very dry spell of weather (e.g. the last 2 or 3 weeks here in England) where the ball is getting very dusty and dry (and thus slippery) and im struggling to grip it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;361499 said:
I only saw about 5 minutes of the masterclass. I think there was no co-ordination between what warne was trying to show and the camera work.

Their googlies did not turn much, and warnies was nearly worse than mine. Beer seems to have good accuracy, and spun it more than I had seen him in a one dayer. Waller seemed very excited and is not as accurate. I was surprised that someone at county level ie Waller did not know how to bowl a flipper! I am aghast that he seemed to have no idea of this ball.

Oh, and it was funny to see hussein try to flick a flipper, I thought he used to dabble in some leg spin himself.

See I told you, these people as are most wrist spinners absolutely clueless beyond, the Leg Break, Wrong Un and Top-spinner, they've never read a book in thier lives and they'd never lower themselves to go on-line and look at what's on offer and no doubt their coaches probably tell them never to look at all the crap that's on-line because we're a bunch of clueless Gerbils! (And maybe we'd undermine what they're saying)?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;362076 said:
We all seem to go through these phases, a great session or two, then another that goes downhill. I always start bowling underarm again, to see what i am doing to get it to turn and then move overarm again. I think once we see the ball turn we get greedy and try too hard.

I was told by a bloke at nets that one of my big problems was trying to bowl the ball of the century every ball. I think turn looks lovely but shouldn't be the focus. Warne says that turn doesn't get wickets unless you have decieved them in flight in the first place.

I would often start an over with a big'un just to let the batsman know I had one and then use smaller variations of pace and flight to try and get a wicket. I remember talking to a bloke who was the non striker during an over like that after a game and he said that he saw me bowl a big'un and started worrying about the turn and how he was going to play it before he'd faced a ball.

I guess it's as handy a ball to make a statement with as it is taking wickets with!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;361511 said:
So this is just like bowling a seam up delivery but with the seam and fingers like our normal grip?

essentially, yeh. you hold it with our normal grip but drag your hand down behind it. personally id call it an arm ball, my idea of what a slider is is VERY different. Warne even said that sometimes he would hold the ball cross seam, so then it is literally a low speed seam delivery with more backspin.

my idea of a slider is a genuine back spinner delivered using the round-the-loop method. its tough to bowl it straight though, maybe impossible? im not far enough into using it yet to know if it has a purpose as a straight on delivery, possibly not. most times it will turn, sometimes VERY sharply. but the fact i never know what its going to do means the batsman has no chance lol
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;362075 said:
My comment is as on ousider and will stop at that, as it is completely off topic. In my opinion the above comment is very egoistic and egocentric. People have priorities in life and some may not afford buying out a susbscription. It is as though you are saying people who are unemployed have no right to eat as they do not have money. Certain events that are of public interest eg the final of the world cup, a deciding series in the ashes etc should by law be free to air and legislated for.It is not fair that less affluent people have no right to see the events, while the richer can. But after all the society is that way as long as I am ok, f'""k you jack. Thank god there is the net and alternatives can be found. I am sorry but these people are parasites and just interested in getting richer not in enhancing the general population's culture. Apparently even the times on line is going to be against payment. I think in conclusion, certain events of national interest should be aired free to air. I prefer seeing something of a slightly inferior quality that is accessable to many, then something in very high tech that is seen by a very small minority. The people with a subscription can obviously see all the test matches in the world but the ashes, I think should be free to air.

just as my response, and as with the rest of you, this is the last thing il say on it as we are off topic (if we want to carry on then maybe a new thread is worth creating, i think the conversation has probably reached its end though)...

i dont disagree that major sporting events should be free to air. i also dont disagree that having the Ashes on terrestrial TV would have benefited the overall public as a whole. but on the other hand, we pay a subscription to Sky and have done for many years, and in return they provide us with the programs that we want to see and in the highest possible quality. watching the Ashes in high definition was excellent, it really adds another dimension to the game when you can see the rotation of the seam in flight from the long distance camera!! id have had no qualms about it being shown on Sky AND terrestrial, that would have benefited everyone and is probably the way it should be, it often is with world cup football coverage. Sky would still have had the same viewing figures, as everyone with Sky would most certainly have viewed on Sky! but the whole country could have also participated for free. but at the same time Sky would have lost out on new subscriptions from people that wanted to see the Ashes, so its swings and roundabouts. the ECB are the only guilty party in all of this. they have made it very clear in recent years that all they care about is money, if its not TV rights then its T20 matches. just look at the Stanford Millions, what a farce that was.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;361510 said:
That's good news, I caught a glimpse of it just as we went out to field today, I need to have a look as I bowled terrible today Wrist Spin Bowling: Shocking 6-0-61-2 but then there is a big list of excuses on the blog. I can kiss my nice stats goodbye after this!

ive heard you say it yourself before that the figures count for nothing. ignore them. your team was obviously outclassed from what you have said, and you were the only one capable of taking any wickets.

and looking at the score card, and its hard to make out exactly what it says, but it seems like your first over went for 19 and your last for 25? take those 2 out of the equation and youd have been 4-0-17-2, which would have been more in keeping with the economy of the other bowlers, but again, you were the only one to take wickets!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;362080 said:
I was told by a bloke at nets that one of my big problems was trying to bowl the ball of the century every ball. I think turn looks lovely but shouldn't be the focus. Warne says that turn doesn't get wickets unless you have decieved them in flight in the first place.

I would often start an over with a big'un just to let the batsman know I had one and then use smaller variations of pace and flight to try and get a wicket. I remember talking to a bloke who was the non striker during an over like that after a game and he said that he saw me bowl a big'un and started worrying about the turn and how he was going to play it before he'd faced a ball.

I guess it's as handy a ball to make a statement with as it is taking wickets with!

As Macca says we all have down phases where it just doesn't happen. It might be lack of practice, over-practice on one specific ball that means you neglect the rest. It may be things like Bio-rythmns or just the fact that you're Knackered. The thing is you'll come back to it in a few days especially if you ease up for a few days and you'll be fine again I'm sure. You understand what you should be doing but it's just a case of you can't see the wood for the trees.

Yeah I'm liking the tactic of bringing out the Biggun early just to let them know there's a chance of it being used and then returning to your bread and butter Leg Break.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Nice one with the Sky on demand link - I'm watching it now and there's some good stuff here, how long is it left available for non-sky'ists like me?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

We had a good session yesterday, we had a hit out in the middle and not in the nets and I had my son bowl at a good young batsman for an hour.

This kid was very good off the back foot but anything pitched up and spinning he found a problem. anything a fraction short he pulled or cut with power.

My young blokes bowling plan A is simple, he starts off with a big legbreak, that can pitch anywhere from way outside leg or off stump as long as it spins big. Then he bowls a few accurate legspinners on the stumps followed by a topspinner. Lately he bowls a slider sometimes instead of the topspinner.

I bowled some off spin which the kid played very good, but he could not handle my legspin which had too much bounce for a little guy.

An England win in the ashes is a great thing for cricket, thousands of English kids will want to be Stuart Broad rather than some footballer. (The constant heading of the football can lead to brain damage I am sure of that after hearing footballers interviewed). Crowd behaviour at cricket is also a great advertisement for the game.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I witnessed the 'Fizzing Ball' phenomenon on Sunday. I've never had anyone bowl it at me before. The bloke was bowling Chinaman Wrong Uns so they were being pitched wide of my off-stump and going away from the bat. The blokes action was really unorthodox and looked slightly Grimmett-esque. It wasn't that obvious that he was doing anything incredible with his arm, wrist or hand but you could hear the ball fizz as it went past. How the hell do you get it to spin that fast, I reckon I can spin the ball pretty well but it never fizzes!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;361514 said:
essentially, yeh. you hold it with our normal grip but drag your hand down behind it. personally id call it an arm ball, my idea of what a slider is is VERY different. Warne even said that sometimes he would hold the ball cross seam, so then it is literally a low speed seam delivery with more backspin.

my idea of a slider is a genuine back spinner delivered using the round-the-loop method. its tough to bowl it straight though, maybe impossible? im not far enough into using it yet to know if it has a purpose as a straight on delivery, possibly not. most times it will turn, sometimes VERY sharply. but the fact i never know what its going to do means the batsman has no chance lol

That slider from the loop is a great backspinner. It was originally called the skimmer by doug ring who showed it to benaud.

Simpson showed warne how to bowl it but warne and jenner developed another '"slider" that is actually the first variation the legspinner used before the wrongun and perhaps even the topspinner. Grimmett also bowled this simple slider as a variation and describes it in his books.

If you can get the doug ring slider straight it is an lbw special, a little off line and it will spin on any surface albeit slowly sometimes.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;361520 said:
We had a good session yesterday, we had a hit out in the middle and not in the nets and I had my son bowl at a good young batsman for an hour.

This kid was very good off the back foot but anything pitched up and spinning he found a problem. anything a fraction short he pulled or cut with power.

My young blokes bowling plan A is simple, he starts off with a big legbreak, that can pitch anywhere from way outside leg or off stump as long as it spins big. Then he bowls a few accurate legspinners on the stumps followed by a topspinner. Lately he bowls a slider sometimes instead of the topspinner.

I bowled some off spin which the kid played very good, but he could not handle my legspin which had too much bounce for a little guy.

An England win in the ashes is a great thing for cricket, thousands of English kids will want to be Stuart Broad rather than some footballer. (The constant heading of the football can lead to brain damage I am sure of that after hearing footballers interviewed). Crowd behaviour at cricket is also a great advertisement for the game.

Yeah I've been discussing this with people today and I think that the Ashes has gone pretty much un-noticed by Joe Public. The majority of SKY subscribers here in the UK would be football fanatics and today and yesterday the kids and their Dads would either be out on the fields practicing or watching the football on the tele as the season has just started - even at our club they were flitting between watching the Ashes and football. Sky is expensive over here and what with there being no coverage other than 3/4 of an hour at 7.15 in the evening I've noticed that the Ashes has pretty much passed everyone by apart from cricket fans and players whereas in 2005 it was on real tele and everyone could watch it for free and they did. The atmosphere around the ashes then was mental, whereas this year it's been discreet to say the least. I think in chasing Murdoch's Aussie Dollar the ECB have done themselves a dis-service, as you say with terrestrial coverage there may have been 100's of thousands of kids that may have gone out and bought a bat and a ball tomorrow or in the coming weeks, but the sons of Football loving Sky owners wouldn't have even been aware of it let alone watched it and been inspired.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;362085 said:
I witnessed the 'Fizzing Ball' phenomenon on Sunday. I've never had anyone bowl it at me before. The bloke was bowling Chinaman Wrong Uns so they were being pitched wide of my off-stump and going away from the bat. The blokes action was really unorthodox and looked slightly Grimmett-esque. It wasn't that obvious that he was doing anything incredible with his arm, wrist or hand but you could hear the ball fizz as it went past. How the hell do you get it to spin that fast, I reckon I can spin the ball pretty well but it never fizzes!

id say you get it to fizz mainly with a really poor seam position! mine fizz far more when the seam is wobbling than when they are ripped with the seam bolt upright. also a mixture of overspin and sidespin adds to the sound.

the more you disturb the air the more sound it makes, to get a 90 degree leg break to fizz is probably quite hard. i get it to happen from time to time when i really get one right. my stock leg break (with over spin) fizzes most times, it does it much more when the ball sticks in my fingers a bit though and comes out with the seam wobbling around (like a gyroscope lol). thats when i hear the proper phwwshhh noise, but it tends to be quite intermittent (kinda like the rotor blades on a helicopter). when i get it right its just a constant shhhwwwwwwssshhhhhhhhhh noise as it flights.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;361522 said:
That slider from the loop is a great backspinner. It was originally called the skimmer by doug ring who showed it to benaud.

Simpson showed warne how to bowl it but warne and jenner developed another '"slider" that is actually the first variation the legspinner used before the wrongun and perhaps even the topspinner. Grimmett also bowled this simple slider as a variation and describes it in his books.

If you can get the doug ring slider straight it is an lbw special, a little off line and it will spin on any surface albeit slowly sometimes.

Yeah - warne came across as being very open minded as to what a slider is and the blokes in the video had their own versions and Warne was accepting of it suggesting that if you've got your own way of bowling it, it's not neccesarily wrong, just different, just as long as it goes in straight and skids in - it's a slider. In which case I've got a slider.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;362090 said:
id say you get it to fizz mainly with a really poor seam position! mine fizz far more when the seam is wobbling than when they are ripped with the seam bolt upright. also a mixture of overspin and sidespin adds to the sound.

the more you disturb the air the more sound it makes, to get a 90 degree leg break to fizz is probably quite hard. i get it to happen from time to time when i really get one right. my stock leg break (with over spin) fizzes most times, it does it much more when the ball sticks in my fingers a bit though and comes out with the seam wobbling around (like a gyroscope lol). thats when i hear the proper phwwshhh noise, but it tends to be quite intermittent (kinda like the rotor blades on a helicopter). when i get it right its just a constant shhhwwwwwwssshhhhhhhhhh noise as it flights.

You obviously hear it as you bowl it - or is it that other people say they hear it as it passes them? I thought about the fact that maybe it's more obvious when the seam spins the wrong way and maybe that's what this bloke was doing as they didn't seem to be turning off the wicket much or drifting?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;361517 said:
ive heard you say it yourself before that the figures count for nothing. ignore them. your team was obviously outclassed from what you have said, and you were the only one capable of taking any wickets.

and looking at the score card, and its hard to make out exactly what it says, but it seems like your first over went for 19 and your last for 25? take those 2 out of the equation and youd have been 4-0-17-2, which would have been more in keeping with the economy of the other bowlers, but again, you were the only one to take wickets!

Yeah, I'm not that fussed, I've improved so much this year and I took the only 2 wickets in the game which is some consolation, no one else got anywhere near it whereas I dropped a bowled and caught off the middle of the bat which I nearly kept hold of and I had another ball dropped in the field off a skier. But we had one bloke who's nearly in his 60's if not in his 60's who uses a walking stick, he may as well have been sitting down, it was a lost cause from very early on and I was knackered having played in the morning. Ah well better luck in 2 weeks time I hope.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;362096 said:
You obviously hear it as you bowl it - or is it that other people say they hear it as it passes them? I thought about the fact that maybe it's more obvious when the seam spins the wrong way and maybe that's what this bloke was doing as they didn't seem to be turning off the wicket much or drifting?

i hear it as i bowl it, for as long as its in the air.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;361524 said:
Yeah - warne came across as being very open minded as to what a slider is and the blokes in the video had their own versions and Warne was accepting of it suggesting that if you've got your own way of bowling it, it's not neccesarily wrong, just different, just as long as it goes in straight and skids in - it's a slider. In which case I've got a slider.

I learned both sliders as a kid I was shown the warne slider for the same reasons that warne mentioned. when the out field is wet and the ball becomes harder to grip the backspinner can be hard to bowl so the seam up slider becomes handy. also the seam up warne slider looks more like a leg break so can be harder to pick. they both have their own advantages for example if you get the back spinning version slighlty wrong it can turn into a massive leg break.

my teacher always said that the leg break should be 95% of your deliveries but that a ball that goes straight on is a great variation to have as I was 15 at the time he said I shouldn't learn the flipper for another 3 years so these were both good deliveries to have.

it's also worth mentioning that many people who complain about their big leg break going straight on may be bowling a backspinning slider without realising it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I want to be able to do that!!!! No matter how hard I spin the ball this doesn't happen. Are you able to spin all your deliveries this much - what of your 45 degree Leg Break, surely if you're spinning that ball that much that should be giving you ludicrous amounts of turn off the wicket?

Adil Rashid gets a mention here as a real contender for the future http://www.testmatchextra.com/Blogs...loggerID=d53f001a-e39b-42de-a043-683d7e0fb9cf
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;361636 said:
it's also worth mentioning that many people who complain about their big leg break going straight on may be bowling a backspinning slider without realising it.

its pretty hard to bowl it dead straight even when youre trying to lol (the slightest amount of side spin on it, even just a few degrees of seam angle, results in a low bouncing leg break), id think to bowl it by accident is probably less likely than the ball just not taking to spin at large angles, the wrist deviation to get it straight is huge and also incredibly awkward and uncomfortable. at present i have to bowl mine with a slightly quicker arm (which isnt ideal for disguising it) just so that i can get my wrist to move through the angles it needs to without it hurting and without bending my elbow too much and "chucking" it down the pitch.

i find that a 90 degree seam has probably a 20-40% chance of actually turning, most times it will skid through. 10 degrees backwards of 90 (e.g. slight backspin) and its much more succesful as a big leg break (as many former pros state), for me it works best between 30-45 degs of over spin though. thats what turns most consistently and can still turn big. on a really rough hard wicket the big leg break would probably be deadly though.

something else ive been pondering lately, following a couple of net sessions against batsmen and also watching Graeme Swann in some depth this weekend, is bounce. i love the additional bounce of overspun leg breaks, i actually genuinely think that varying bounce could be more effective than varying turn! both in combination is obviously the perfect situation, but if anyone struggles to turn a leg break big, just bowling them small and varying the overspin seems like it could cause massive issues. you watch good batsmen playing spin and they arent too worried about the turn. so long as its pitching in line with the stumps they look to play straight, assuming that the ball will turn away from their legs and stumps, so they play straight in case it doesnt and hope that it turns past the outside edge! this is dependant on even bounce though. much the same as a batsman playing a seamer on length, you expect the ball to act consistently. if you watch one jump up at them then the shots get really ugly! edges and gloves seem to get found more often than not.

as something to verify my thoughts, consider Anil Kumble. he bowled with a predominantly overspun technique and is the 3rd highest wicket taker of all time. Indian pitches assisted him with bounce, and maybe practicing in nets is what is giving me the impression of bounce causing as much/more damage than turn since the wickets are as hard as concrete (literally!!). also watching the cricket at the Oval this weekend the pitch was breaking up, but underneath it was still very hard as it always is. but the club i am "playing" for produces extremely hard wickets. they also seem to break up nicely in the footholes over a couple of matches! on a soft wicket bounce might play a lesser part. Warne used to vary his overspin a great deal too, his standard deliveries were over spun leg breaks with varying turn and bounce, then he had the big leg break as an occasional variation, along with the half dozen (or more) other variations he possessed. what do other people think?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;362085 said:
I witnessed the 'Fizzing Ball' phenomenon on Sunday. I've never had anyone bowl it at me before. The bloke was bowling Chinaman Wrong Uns so they were being pitched wide of my off-stump and going away from the bat. The blokes action was really unorthodox and looked slightly Grimmett-esque. It wasn't that obvious that he was doing anything incredible with his arm, wrist or hand but you could hear the ball fizz as it went past. How the hell do you get it to spin that fast, I reckon I can spin the ball pretty well but it never fizzes!
I did not find get a chance to bowl this week. I have a net session coming week and would try your advice of holding the ball loose. I do not think I was holding the ball tight in the first place.

I guess you missed my third question, which was about the slider..... Can you shed more light on it. I have read,heard many versions of it. What do you think is the genuine version or the standard version of it?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I bowl my big leg break in the Philpot style so back towards my body. Sometimes when I try and spin it really big I can end up rolling the fingers down the back of the ball rather than flicking the wrist. this is neither a proper big leg break or a backspining slider but is a delivery that I've cocked up by trying to hard.

I think you're right in saying that if your leg break consistently doesn't turn that this is probably not the explanation. But if every once and a while it happens and you think why the hell did that happen it might be.

As for the elbow bending (chucking) when using this delivery I followed Philpot’s advice which is to hold the ball out in front of you with a straight arm and flick the ball back towards your chest. This gets the ligaments and tendons used to flicking the wrist in this position with a straight arm.

The overspun leg break can be lethal on the correct surface. Especially if you have a back spinning delivery which stays low as a variation.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;362084 said:
Where's the bloke with the blisters? What do you reckon to the advice I gave him?

http://www.bigcricket.com/forum/t58854-215/#post361953
I did not find get a chance to bowl this week. I have a net session coming week and would try your advice of holding the ball loose. I do not think I was holding the ball tight in the first place.

I guess you missed my third question, which was about the slider..... Can you shed more light on it. I have read,heard many versions of it. What do you think is the genuine version or the standard version of it?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;361636 said:
I learned both sliders as a kid I was shown the warne slider for the same reasons that warne mentioned. when the out field is wet and the ball becomes harder to grip the backspinner can be hard to bowl so the seam up slider becomes handy. also the seam up warne slider looks more like a leg break so can be harder to pick. they both have their own advantages for example if you get the back spinning version slighlty wrong it can turn into a massive leg break.

my teacher always said that the leg break should be 95% of your deliveries but that a ball that goes straight on is a great variation to have as I was 15 at the time he said I shouldn't learn the flipper for another 3 years so these were both good deliveries to have.

it's also worth mentioning that many people who complain about their big leg break going straight on may be bowling a backspinning slider without realising it.

Paulinho, sounds like you have a bloody good teacher at school teaching you cricket!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

legspinenthusiast;362264 said:
I did not find get a chance to bowl this week. I have a net session coming week and would try your advice of holding the ball loose. I do not think I was holding the ball tight in the first place.

I guess you missed my third question, which was about the slider..... Can you shed more light on it. I have read,heard many versions of it. What do you think is the genuine version or the standard version of it?

To be honest there seems to be a number of ways that people bowl the slider and it can get a bit confusing as to what a slider is. I think the bottom line is that if you can bowl a straight ball that has some backspin on it that stays straight and comes out of the hand preferably looking like a Leg Break you've got yourself a slider. There's a clip on the SKY sports website at the minute that shows Warne last weekend talking to a couple young blokes and he discusses the Slider and Warne more or less says what I've said above. Similarly people like Peter Philpott would probably support the same notion as Philpott says that you shouldn't get too hung up on your grip, if it's unorthodox but works for you - why change it?

I used to agonise over it a bit and not quite get the explanations, but having had Warne say what I've just said about it conforming to the general theory - it's therefore a Slider I can now say that I too have a slider. My own slider uses the two up two down grip as with the leg break with the seam in the usual position, but I then bowl it in the manner you would with a seam up ball e.g. dragging the two 'Up' fingers down the back of the ball giving it back-spin. Because of the seam position the ball then has a chance of landing on the seam or not on the seam and then act weirdly. I've not used it for months and months though.
 
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