Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Adil Rashid. There's been a lot of stuff in the press about this bloke just recently here in the UK. There are some that claim he is a key contender to take Flintoffs crown as Englands next great all-rounder and in the Times today even Warne was on the case bigging him up in front of Stuart Broad as Englands Flintoff replacement. The only thing is there's so little out there about these blokes that it's not that easy to get a sense of how good they are. Who are the up and coming Leg Spinners at the moment and is there such a thing as the top 10 Leg Spinners? Let's have some names.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article6802109.ece
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/columnists/shane_warne/article6808518.ece
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;363627 said:
That Jack Pollard book was republished three times over three decades and each edition is different. Dooland writes a chapter in one edition and gives his ideas on legspin and explains his flipper. The quote above was by John Gleeson.

As you know in the perverse language of legspin sometimes any ball that goes straight on gets called a topspinner. Philpott can even call a backspinner a topspinner and we know what he is talking about.

Benaud learnt the backspinning flipper from dooland. I cant find any evidence he bowled the other "flippers".
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So, it seems the more you look into the Flipper the more confusing the picture becomes unless you go right back to the beginning with Grimmett? Do you think it's relatively safe to say that the only person at first class level that ever bowled the Top-Spinning Flipper was in fact Grimmett?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;361934 said:
Has anyone ever tried this ball. Looks very much like the carrom ball. Anyway should be a good straight ball CRICKETNDTV.com - Cricket Unlimited
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Looks good in the nets there in the way that it simply doesn't bounce. I didn't know Ian Pont was a spin guru as well. I haven't tried it but as you say it kind of looks like the Iverson Gleeson ball. I may give it a whirl but I'm really focusing on 4 deliveries at the moment -

Std Leg Break
The Big Muvver (AKA the Biggun).
Top-spinning Flipper
Wrong Un

Although I feel I'm neglecting my once loved Top-Spinner and I felt as though I could have used it on Sunday, but I've bowled it so little in the last 2 months I didn't trust myself to give it a go. I'm obviously not practicing enough!!!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hi, this is my first post on here, there's been some interesting stuff on this thread.

I've had a little go with that knuckle ball that goes straight. It's OK i think, but you have to a bit crafty with the grip. If you run up with your middle finger behind the ball the batsmen will know something's up. I did it changing grip at the last second and it's not too hard.

The problem with it is that it doesn't spin very much, so doesn't skid on as much as a flipper or slider. Nor does it land fuller than expected, like the flipper or slider, because of the lack of backspin. It's fun though, and if it can be disguised well it could be useful...

Dave, this topspinning flipper sounds interesting, does it behave much differently than a normal topspinner?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

big spin;361958 said:
Hi, this is my first post on here, there's been some interesting stuff on this thread.

I've had a little go with that knuckle ball that goes straight. It's OK i think, but you have to a bit crafty with the grip. If you run up with your middle finger behind the ball the batsmen will know something's up. I did it changing grip at the last second and it's not too hard.

The problem with it is that it doesn't spin very much, so doesn't skid on as much as a flipper or slider. Nor does it land fuller than expected, like the flipper or slider, because of the lack of backspin. It's fun though, and if it can be disguised well it could be useful...

Dave, this topspinning flipper sounds interesting, does it behave much differently than a normal topspinner?
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I find that I'm more accurate with it and can bowl it a lot faster than my normal Top-Spinner, but at the same time I can easily toss it up loopy and have it dip. I generally seem to be using it as a faster on the stumps approach, I can normally just change from bowling my leg Break straight into this with no problem, whereas with my orthodox top-spinner as on Sunday I feel a bit cagey about bowling it with confidence. The other thing is with this ball it swings and then breaks like a small off-spinner. I've not taken any wickets with it as it's a variation and I've not generally bowled it in games till very recently. It's Grimmetts 'Mystery Ball' he invented the Flipper and applied the 'Round the loop' theory to the Flipper and of the 4 basic Flipper variations this is the one he preferred, rejecting the back-spinning flipper that Benaud went on to hijack and claim as his own, the same ball we see Jenner and Warne demonstrating frequently. Grimmetts Top Spinning Flipper I'm beginning to agree is the better of the 4 flipper variations.

BigSpin - yeah join in mate, let us know how you bowl your stuff, as we're all looking to learn stuff on here and any insights and advice is always appreciated.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I can imagine it looks strange coming out, would definately confuse the batsmen. I don't think i would be able to bowl it well. My arms pretty low so i can get a lot of side spin, but can't get my wrist round far enough for a googly, and it sounds like you'd have to get your wrist all the way round for a topspinning flipper.

Where did you find that stuff that Grimmett said? I had a look to get hold of his books, but you have to pay a few hundred pounds to a cricket memorabilia collecter!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

big spin;361964 said:
Yeah I can imagine it looks strange coming out, would definately confuse the batsmen. I don't think i would be able to bowl it well. My arms pretty low so i can get a lot of side spin, but can't get my wrist round far enough for a googly, and it sounds like you'd have to get your wrist all the way round for a topspinning flipper.

Where did you find that stuff that Grimmett said? I had a look to get hold of his books, but you have to pay a few hundred pounds to a cricket memorabilia collecter!
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One of his books 'Taking wickets' comes up every now and then on antique book websites and I think they get simultaneously listed on Amazon (About 30 quid). You just have to keep looking around and they turn up. The rarer 'Tricking batsmen' is far more difficult to get hold of. There's some bits of it in the new Bob Woolmer cricket book, but not a lot. There's probably more in this thread than anywhere else on the internet about Grimmett as we're pretty impressed with his contribution to the game.

Yeah the grip and wrist angle for the Top Spinning flipper is dead awkward and it'll cause you grief if you're looking to bowl it, it'll take a couple of weeks spinning it out of the fingers hand to hand going through the pain barrier as your muscles and tendons get used to the new action, but you get there eventually. I don't know how far back you've read through the thread but some of the big name spinners like Ashley Mallett and Jenner both claim that it's physically impossible to bowl 22 yards. It's not.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

big spin;361958 said:
Hi, this is my first post on here, there's been some interesting stuff on this thread.

I've had a little go with that knuckle ball that goes straight. It's OK i think, but you have to a bit crafty with the grip. If you run up with your middle finger behind the ball the batsmen will know something's up. I did it changing grip at the last second and it's not too hard.

QUOTE] My son came up with that exact same delivery a few months back. Like you say hard to disguise but it has possibilities as a variation.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I know this is off topic slightly, but in reposnse to an earlier posting by Jim.

Jim2109;361889 said:
.

there has been some criticism on this thread of Sky Sports showing the Ashes coverage. on the other hand, as a subscriber to Sky, i wouldnt have wanted it any other way. BBC arent bad for their camera work, in fact they are up there with the best in the world. but ITV, C4 and C5 are cheap, i watch football matches on ITV and the picture quality is awful, the commentary is awful, the overall coverage is just of a poor standard. watch it on Sky and its in High Definition, money is no object when it comes to getting the best commentators and pundits possible, the analysis, replays, insight, even down to the lunch time articles are absolutely spot on. its a pleasure to watch, i can sit there all day listening. if it was on terrestrial television that wouldnt be the case if there was a slow batting partnership and nothing exciting was happening.

!
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Jim here's something you might want to have a look at

"The viewing figures tell the story plainly. For the final Oval Test which sealed England's great Ashes victory in 2005, Channel 4's free-to-air coverage averaged just short of 3m people, and a triumphant 7.2m peak in the final quarter of an hour when the Test was won. On Sunday, Sky's Oval coverage attracted an average of 856,000 viewers, and a peak, at 5.45pm, of 1.9m - remarkable for pay TV cricket, but not a great chunk of the nation".

This is a small section from here England's glorious Ashes win makes the case for cricket to be on free-to-air TV | David Conn | Sport | guardian.co.uk
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;362054 said:
I know this is off topic slightly, but in reposnse to an earlier posting by Jim.




Jim here's something you might want to have a look at

"The viewing figures tell the story plainly. For the final Oval Test which sealed England's great Ashes victory in 2005, Channel 4's free-to-air coverage averaged just short of 3m people, and a triumphant 7.2m peak in the final quarter of an hour when the Test was won. On Sunday, Sky's Oval coverage attracted an average of 856,000 viewers, and a peak, at 5.45pm, of 1.9m - remarkable for pay TV cricket, but not a great chunk of the nation".

This is a small section from here England's glorious Ashes win makes the case for cricket to be on free-to-air TV | David Conn | Sport | guardian.co.uk
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as a subscriber of Sky though the viewing figures dont concern me too much, thats a problem for the ECB. as a viewer, id rather have watched state of the art Sky coverage than have to make do with a cheap terrestrial offering.

the figures are potentially one sided as well. firstly, the Ashes were much earlier in the year this time around, in peak holiday and wedding time no less. couple that with the Formula 1 on BBC at the same time, as well as a pair of football matches on Sky Sports at the same time. there is much less to do in September, not forgetting that the kids are back at school so nobody is away on holiday or quite as busy with other commitments.

the other huge contributing factor is that last time around the final match went to the 5th day. everyone knew that there would be a result one way or another on that day. this time around it was the 4th day and Australia had looked very good with the bat at the end of day 3. lots of people were already talking on Sunday about "England have lost it again, Australia are too good", etc without even giving it a chance. plus youve also got the lessened excitement this time because England had already won the Ashes 4 years earlier. prior to 2005 it had been 18 years in coming.

so im not sure those figures give anything like a balanced comparison. sure, its very clear that a fair number of people were unable to follow the cricket because they dont have Sky. but at the same time, there are still plenty of people that do. and i would rather watch it on Sky than anything else, as would many customers, hence why Sky paid the money to buy the coverage. its all well and good saying "it should be on terrestrial, why have the ECB allowed it to end up on Sky", but where were the BBC/C4/ITV/C5 when the bidding was being done to buy the rights? the ECB are all about the money, if you want to contest their reasons for selling the Ashes to Sky until 2013 then also ask why T20 is now dominating cricket at the expense of the full length game!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I subscribed to sky sports for the length of the ashes test series and cancelled it on Monday. Which means it cost me about £30 quid for the five tests plus some footy that was on a good handful of pro40 games. In all I'd say I got value for money.

The coverage on sky is first class no one can deny that but Channel 4 did a great job last time around and technology has come along way in a short space of time hence sky being even better this time around.

It's sad to admit but football dominates the media’s thoughts throughout the year even during an ashes summer. Cricket simply doesn't have the same draw as football for the terrestrial channels to compete with the money offered by sky.

Whether we like it or not cricket appears to be a minority sport in England and I think we may all just have to get used to it being on sky.

I would say though that the amount of county championship coverage is rubbish. I can’t see why there is no match of the day type program for this on terrestrial television. Is it any wonder that people haven’t been able to have a good look at someone like Adil Rashid.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I reckon we should call it quits on this conversation as it's off subject a bit and maybe carry it on elsewhere? Although I'm happy to leave it at that.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've had a rather disappointing time in terms of my wrist spin recently. Unfortunately, in addition to my inconsistent accuracy, I have gained a rather undesirable consistency; I can now hardly ever turn the ball properly.

Luckily though, I think I've identified the problem as pushing the ball out of my hand, rather than rolling it out with my fingers and wrist in the correct manner, as I seemed to make some progress on this during my last net session. Thus, it is not quite all doom and gloom on the bowling front(plus my square turning off-breaks are providing quite the consolation).
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;362060 said:
as a subscriber of Sky though the viewing figures dont concern me too much, thats a problem for the ECB. as a viewer, id rather have watched state of the art Sky coverage than have to make do with a cheap terrestrial offering.
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My comment is as on ousider and will stop at that, as it is completely off topic. In my opinion the above comment is very egoistic and egocentric. People have priorities in life and some may not afford buying out a susbscription. It is as though you are saying people who are unemployed have no right to eat as they do not have money. Certain events that are of public interest eg the final of the world cup, a deciding series in the ashes etc should by law be free to air and legislated for.It is not fair that less affluent people have no right to see the events, while the richer can. But after all the society is that way as long as I am ok, f'""k you jack. Thank god there is the net and alternatives can be found. I am sorry but these people are parasites and just interested in getting richer not in enhancing the general population's culture. Apparently even the times on line is going to be against payment. I think in conclusion, certain events of national interest should be aired free to air. I prefer seeing something of a slightly inferior quality that is accessable to many, then something in very high tech that is seen by a very small minority. The people with a subscription can obviously see all the test matches in the world but the ashes, I think should be free to air.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;362074 said:
I've had a rather disappointing time in terms of my wrist spin recently. Unfortunately, in addition to my inconsistent accuracy, I have gained a rather undesirable consistency; I can now hardly ever turn the ball properly.

Luckily though, I think I've identified the problem as pushing the ball out of my hand, rather than rolling it out with my fingers and wrist in the correct manner, as I seemed to make some progress on this during my last net session. Thus, it is not quite all doom and gloom on the bowling front(plus my square turning off-breaks are providing quite the consolation).
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We all seem to go through these phases, a great session or two, then another that goes downhill. I always start bowling underarm again, to see what i am doing to get it to turn and then move overarm again. I think once we see the ball turn we get greedy and try too hard.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;362074 said:
I've had a rather disappointing time in terms of my wrist spin recently. Unfortunately, in addition to my inconsistent accuracy, I have gained a rather undesirable consistency; I can now hardly ever turn the ball properly.

Luckily though, I think I've identified the problem as pushing the ball out of my hand, rather than rolling it out with my fingers and wrist in the correct manner, as I seemed to make some progress on this during my last net session. Thus, it is not quite all doom and gloom on the bowling front(plus my square turning off-breaks are providing quite the consolation).
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is it possibly worth you trying to bowl top spinners for a while to regain the spinning action? i find that if i cant get the ball to spin particularly well, if i bowl top spin (or just leg breaks with lots of overspin) it forces the fingers to come over the ball and forces you to spin the ball. then go back to the normal action and your fingers remember what they should be doing again. its something that has worked for me on a couple of occasions, most notably when im playing after a very dry spell of weather (e.g. the last 2 or 3 weeks here in England) where the ball is getting very dusty and dry (and thus slippery) and im struggling to grip it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;362076 said:
We all seem to go through these phases, a great session or two, then another that goes downhill. I always start bowling underarm again, to see what i am doing to get it to turn and then move overarm again. I think once we see the ball turn we get greedy and try too hard.
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I was told by a bloke at nets that one of my big problems was trying to bowl the ball of the century every ball. I think turn looks lovely but shouldn't be the focus. Warne says that turn doesn't get wickets unless you have decieved them in flight in the first place.

I would often start an over with a big'un just to let the batsman know I had one and then use smaller variations of pace and flight to try and get a wicket. I remember talking to a bloke who was the non striker during an over like that after a game and he said that he saw me bowl a big'un and started worrying about the turn and how he was going to play it before he'd faced a ball.

I guess it's as handy a ball to make a statement with as it is taking wickets with!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;362075 said:
My comment is as on ousider and will stop at that, as it is completely off topic. In my opinion the above comment is very egoistic and egocentric. People have priorities in life and some may not afford buying out a susbscription. It is as though you are saying people who are unemployed have no right to eat as they do not have money. Certain events that are of public interest eg the final of the world cup, a deciding series in the ashes etc should by law be free to air and legislated for.It is not fair that less affluent people have no right to see the events, while the richer can. But after all the society is that way as long as I am ok, f'""k you jack. Thank god there is the net and alternatives can be found. I am sorry but these people are parasites and just interested in getting richer not in enhancing the general population's culture. Apparently even the times on line is going to be against payment. I think in conclusion, certain events of national interest should be aired free to air. I prefer seeing something of a slightly inferior quality that is accessable to many, then something in very high tech that is seen by a very small minority. The people with a subscription can obviously see all the test matches in the world but the ashes, I think should be free to air.
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just as my response, and as with the rest of you, this is the last thing il say on it as we are off topic (if we want to carry on then maybe a new thread is worth creating, i think the conversation has probably reached its end though)...

i dont disagree that major sporting events should be free to air. i also dont disagree that having the Ashes on terrestrial TV would have benefited the overall public as a whole. but on the other hand, we pay a subscription to Sky and have done for many years, and in return they provide us with the programs that we want to see and in the highest possible quality. watching the Ashes in high definition was excellent, it really adds another dimension to the game when you can see the rotation of the seam in flight from the long distance camera!! id have had no qualms about it being shown on Sky AND terrestrial, that would have benefited everyone and is probably the way it should be, it often is with world cup football coverage. Sky would still have had the same viewing figures, as everyone with Sky would most certainly have viewed on Sky! but the whole country could have also participated for free. but at the same time Sky would have lost out on new subscriptions from people that wanted to see the Ashes, so its swings and roundabouts. the ECB are the only guilty party in all of this. they have made it very clear in recent years that all they care about is money, if its not TV rights then its T20 matches. just look at the Stanford Millions, what a farce that was.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;362080 said:
I was told by a bloke at nets that one of my big problems was trying to bowl the ball of the century every ball. I think turn looks lovely but shouldn't be the focus. Warne says that turn doesn't get wickets unless you have decieved them in flight in the first place.

I would often start an over with a big'un just to let the batsman know I had one and then use smaller variations of pace and flight to try and get a wicket. I remember talking to a bloke who was the non striker during an over like that after a game and he said that he saw me bowl a big'un and started worrying about the turn and how he was going to play it before he'd faced a ball.

I guess it's as handy a ball to make a statement with as it is taking wickets with!
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As Macca says we all have down phases where it just doesn't happen. It might be lack of practice, over-practice on one specific ball that means you neglect the rest. It may be things like Bio-rythmns or just the fact that you're Knackered. The thing is you'll come back to it in a few days especially if you ease up for a few days and you'll be fine again I'm sure. You understand what you should be doing but it's just a case of you can't see the wood for the trees.

Yeah I'm liking the tactic of bringing out the Biggun early just to let them know there's a chance of it being used and then returning to your bread and butter Leg Break.
 
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