Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Have not tried bowling when merry, Im paranoid that I will get a tough caught and bowl chance and taking one on the nose!
When I first started bowling legspin about 5 years ago I actually bowled the back spin leg break like the one you mentioned ( I was trying to copy Shane Warne) as my natural delivery. But in the off season forgot how to do it because of the "spin towards yourself" action. I then turned into a side spin leg spinner but never spun it as much as the back spinner. Having now rediscovered it a few months I can agree that it turns much more then my side spin or top spin leggie but turns really slow. Still it is a real buzz to turn it that much.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

When I attempt to bowl my topspinner it invariably comes out as a topspun leg break. However when I hold the ball with seam facing the batsman and my fingers on the smooth part of the ball, it comes out as a toppie or even googly - weird eh? Anyone else find this?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

My Top spinners come out as Half Decent Wrong Uns. I'm not that fussed at the minute as I'm hoping as the Leg Break comes together it'll correct itself?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

A wrong un is better then a toppie IMO so once your get the leggie sorted you all set
;-) Did you try start your right arm above your head and then rotaing your arm 360 before realease (ala Shane Warne) that might help give your leggie more zip.

I would say thought that its good to know HOW you are spinning the ball rather then just bowling it. I made that mistake and "forgot" how to bowl a big leg break for 5 years! I could not get it right between then for some reason until reading Philpott's book. Now my "natural" leggie is side spinner but I want to get back to the back spin leg break as that is the one that can turn square!

Im off, 12am. Cheers.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

dodgylegspinner;322461 said:
Did you try start your right arm above your head and then rotaing your arm 360 before realease (ala Shane Warne) that might help give your leggie more zip.
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How do you mean? Is this standing practice drill - if so where did you see/read this?

I've uploaded footage of me bowling the Gipper now - YouTube - The Gipper Wrist Spin Bowling have a look at the hand position and grip. What I'll have to do is shoot some footage of me explaining it and showing it close up, I'll try and do that in the next few weeks.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

oo if tht ball was straight you woulda had him dave,
atm the ball looks pretty sound and if i saw a bowler holding it like tht i would hav no clue wats next.
i think it would work well as a surprize ball to catch batsmen offguard.

ONLY constructive critism i could say is that beware of your flight and length as if the batmen used he's feet he cuda smacked it on the full, but if that ball was pitched alil shorter it would b even more deadly!

lol i am going to go try this ball now.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah - it definitely looks weird and once you've bowled it a few times the bat will obviously see it coming from the obvious grip and arm contortion and know full well that it's going to turn to slips. But It is possible to bowl it straight with more bounce, but I'm more interested in the longer term in disguising/hiding the grip hoping that as the arm comes over it looks like a wrong un - because then it'll turn the opposite way.

The flight and length - as this ball is a variation ball, it's really only to be used every now and then in amongst the stock ball, hence the reason I'm trying to get the Leg Break sussed.

I've uploaded a couple of others as welll now...

YouTube - Leg Break

YouTube - The Wrong Un Wrist Spin Bowling
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

That leg break was great dave, it was a shame that batsmen was just waiting for you on the backfoot cos if he was on the front foot that wuda caused problems. But thats when i was impressed because then i watched the googly video and it was pitched perfectly for sum1 hu was playing on the back foot and totally fooled the batsmen.

Also your leg break turned abit and i looked and the seam position was superb for a leg break and now all you have to do it vary its length speed etc..
and the googly turns huge which is great:)

Only constructive critism i have it that if you look at ur follow thru with the googly ur roate 180 degrees which gets you a great length and gd turn, whilst your leg break you dont half rotate as much if i was a batsmen thats the thing i would pick up to tell if your bowling a googly or legbreak. hope that helps.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'll have a look at that.

Is the leg coming over and round that you're talking about? This is something my coach is talking to me about he says that the rotation should be 180 degrees no matter what I'm bowling and that if there's any requirement to up the power this should be through the shoulders rather than through the lower part of the body? I'm currently trying to correct it so that when I bowl I stay along an imaginary line. That's interesting in that you as a batsman would look at that as a way of seeing if I'm bowling the Leg break or the Wrong un, I'd have though that the ball would have been more or less at your feet by the time I've finished the rotation?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah - it's not one that I would bowl on a consistent basis. It's mixed in with some of the others. As you say it's at the moment it's not disguised in any way and if your were to bowl it the bat would soon see the grip and think - Ah this is the one that goes like a leg break... So Later I'll have to try and disguise it. I'm not sure that as the arm comes over whether it looks as though you're about to bowl a Wrong Un or not - but if it did that would obviously be useful as it goes the opposite way! It's still very much in development. I've uploaded some others now - Wrong Un and a bit of a Leg Break...
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;322708 said:
I'll have a look at that.

Is the leg coming over and round that you're talking about? This is something my coach is talking to me about he says that the rotation should be 180 degrees no matter what I'm bowling and that if there's any requirement to up the power this should be through the shoulders rather than through the lower part of the body? I'm currently trying to correct it so that when I bowl I stay along an imaginary line. That's interesting in that you as a batsman would look at that as a way of seeing if I'm bowling the Leg break or the Wrong un, I'd have though that the ball would have been more or less at your feet by the time I've finished the rotation?
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yes by the time i see the end of ur action the wrong un would b at my feet, but im nt looking at the completion of the action, just the incompletion of the leg break if tht makes sense. And yes im basically saying what your coach has said and it looks like your on the way to solving it anyway.

i tried the glipper today and it turned abit lyk a googly lol i must be flicking it wrong sumhow lol oh well ill keep trying it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Look at my current Avatar - that's what the batsman sees as the arm reaches vertical - I think as the arm goes over the it may twist round even further with the seam pointing towards Mid wicket, the spin is then imparted so the ball spins anti clockwise. (I think that's how it happens)? As I said I'll have to video it in slow motion.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

looks good dave , gipper looks funny as you run up could probablly disguise it better. wrong'un really looks good, unfortunately i'm gonna be out of action for a fair while with a strain in my joint of my spinning finger
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Cheers Gundalf, yeah I'll be looking at making it so that it's not so obvious as you run up in the future. In the short term I've got other priorities -

1. The rotation of the leg in the delivery stride it's a lot more than 180 degrees.
2. The Leg Break - getting it consistent and to turn more.
3. Increasing the aggression through the follow through.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

When bowling a leg break, where should I pitch it? I am a fan of pitching it on middle stump, but should i put it on off or leg?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave, read through a lot of your work and it's extremely thorough.

I watched your youtube videos with interest, and (for what its worth), thought that the keys to you improving were as follows:

  • Front Arm: Your arm, whilst positioned relatively well, seems to be generally used for decorative purposes. I feel that it really needs to be pulled back into your body as it is brought down, rather than away to the side. The reason for this will be explained at the end.
  • Approach to the crease: It appears that you are going through the motions in terms of your movement through the crease. The use of momentum through the crease to generate the velocity of the ball will save wear on your shoulder. Your current speed is not going to be sufficient against a high calibre of opposition as you're simply giving them too much time to get to the pitch of the ball. Without becoming "warne-centric" it is interesting to note the manner with which he tended to explode towards the end of his run-up and approach of the crease. The key to not draggind down the delivery with the increase of momentum is to ensure that you don't stop at any point in the action, and for gods sakes, make sure that your right leg does some work!
  • Follow through: The most underrated part of a leg spinners action. It is important to remember that your arse has an extremely important roll to play if you want to get dip and zip off the pitch. Personally, I have found that a great way to ensure this occurs is to try and kick your right bum cheek with the back of your right foot as you deliver. The difference this has created in my personal experience is extremely noticable, so if done correctly you'll definitely realise it!

Anyway mate, I hope this helps. I'm of course still learning myself, but these are some of the more important points that I've been taught by various coaches over the years.

Best of luck.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Gatorlad - Cheers Bloke, this is very much appreciated. I was thinking about some of this stuff today at work. Last night I was watching Warne on a Ashes 2007 DVD and remembered that my run in/walk in used to be described as being Warnesque and it so obviously isn't any more! In fact this evening working on some fielding practice indoors with my younger son I was practicing it (The Warne way) to see if I could get any sense that it added to the explosion through the crease. One of the big criticisms of my team mates is that my bowling just isn't fast enough - so it's something I need to work on.

I've looked back at my videos and my leading arm and compared them with the Beau Casson clips that I've been using to learn this stuff with and from my uninitiated point of view I can't see a great deal of difference with where it ends up, but that's not to say that I don't think it's an issue, as I know full well that the 'Whip' action that my own teams captain uses when he bowls is massively faster than mine and I can also see this in Warne and Casson's bowling examples.

I like the point you make about saving the shoulder by speeding up the movement through the crease a la' Warne. But I'm lost on your last point about kicking my arse - again looking at the Beau Casson clip YouTube - David Freedman legspin coaching video I've noted that at 4.09 into the clip he's doing the explode through the crease follow through drill and at this point he does almost kick his arse - is this where you mean?

I don't know which bit of my internet writing you're following whether it's this or my blog, but your comments are appreciated and I'll certainly have a look at the points you've raised and I'm sure all the lads on here who are trying to learn this will take noted too and consider your points. The thing I like about all of your comments and it's something I've commented on before is that none of it relates to spinning the ball and the wrist. The other aspects to wrist spin bowling such as all the points that you've made I feel are far more important to learners than the ability to bowl a whole bagful of variations. I only wish that I had this input when I started out 3 years ago!

Cheers for the comments and I'd appreciate it if you would clarify the point regarding kick your arse!!!

Dave
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Check this link out - this has got some very interesting grips one of which looks and sounds pretty much like Mendis's Carrum Ball - Google Image Result for http://www.planetnz.com/palmheads/images/grips2_2.jpg

Also in there is a mention for the knuckle ball (baseball pitch). I've used the Knuckle ball myself - it's weird un that seems to come out fast and seemingly has it's own peculiar characteristics. (all this after I've said about not obsessing about grips and wrist angles etc)!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;323542 said:
Gatorlad - Cheers Bloke, this is very much appreciated. I was thinking about some of this stuff today at work. Last night I was watching Warne on a Ashes 2007 DVD and remembered that my run in/walk in used to be described as being Warnesque and it so obviously isn't any more! In fact this evening working on some fielding practice indoors with my younger son I was practicing it (The Warne way) to see if I could get any sense that it added to the explosion through the crease. One of the big criticisms of my team mates is that my bowling just isn't fast enough - so it's something I need to work on.

I've looked back at my videos and my leading arm and compared them with the Beau Casson clips that I've been using to learn this stuff with and from my uninitiated point of view I can't see a great deal of difference with where it ends up, but that's not to say that I don't think it's an issue, as I know full well that the 'Whip' action that my own teams captain uses when he bowls is massively faster than mine and I can also see this in Warne and Casson's bowling examples.

I like the point you make about saving the shoulder by speeding up the movement through the crease a la' Warne. But I'm lost on your last point about kicking my arse - again looking at the Beau Casson clip YouTube - David Freedman legspin coaching video I've noted that at 4.09 into the clip he's doing the explode through the crease follow through drill and at this point he does almost kick his arse - is this where you mean?

I don't know which bit of my internet writing you're following whether it's this or my blog, but your comments are appreciated and I'll certainly have a look at the points you've raised and I'm sure all the lads on here who are trying to learn this will take noted too and consider your points. The thing I like about all of your comments and it's something I've commented on before is that none of it relates to spinning the ball and the wrist. The other aspects to wrist spin bowling such as all the points that you've made I feel are far more important to learners than the ability to bowl a whole bagful of variations. I only wish that I had this input when I started out 3 years ago!

Cheers for the comments and I'd appreciate it if you would clarify the point regarding kick your arse!!!

Dave
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Glad to hear it!

The arse kicking was indeed demonstrated at that point in the clip. I didn't word it very well at all did I? haha

Its more of a process to ensure that your leg never becomes lazy. If the back leg is doing its job, your whole upper torso will be generating momentum towards the target. When the back leg isn't being used correctly, I find that the loss in momentum leads to me overcompensating in terms of the amount of velocity that has to be created through my shoulder alone.

The level of perfection required when releasing our deliveries in order to land them in a relatively good area is extreme already, so why make one shoulder carry all the load, as well as remember to give the ball a big rip with that hand?

It's a lose, lose scenario, as although you may land one every now and then, you will always be cursed with the ball that you drag down short, or overcompensate for, and push it out towards the leg side, usually in the form of a rank full toss.

So, after all that, trying to kick your bum is simply a means to avoid laziness through the crease.

Let me know if I haven't quite explained that well enough.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;322708 said:
I'll have a look at that.

Is the leg coming over and round that you're talking about? This is something my coach is talking to me about he says that the rotation should be 180 degrees no matter what I'm bowling and that if there's any requirement to up the power this should be through the shoulders rather than through the lower part of the body? I'm currently trying to correct it so that when I bowl I stay along an imaginary line. That's interesting in that you as a batsman would look at that as a way of seeing if I'm bowling the Leg break or the Wrong un, I'd have though that the ball would have been more or less at your feet by the time I've finished the rotation?
Click to expand...

I disagree strongly with the bolded part.

And as for the straight line part, I fail to see the benefit ?

Obviously there shouldn't be a right angle style follow through, but some element of a fade off the pitch is the dogma that I've always been fed!
 
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