Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;343280 said:
The better book if you can get it is " Grimmett On Cricket" and in that plate 12, 13 and 24, plus his writing says what we call a flipper wasn't his preferred way of delivering his "mystery ball" but rather he liked to bowl it the other way up as the topspinner! He says this way it makes more pace off the wicket after pitching, whereas he reckons the flipper loses pace in comparison. You would think it would be easier for the batsman to pick but perhaps by then it was too late for him to do much.
I could email some scans of the photos and text if you want.
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Yep - this is the one I've been mucking around with today and it looks promising.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Bowling out the captain was a good career move by berthwal. The captain might not have liked it , but he wont forget it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca can you e mail the plates if you can to ebellia@maltanet.net

Thank you

And what do you mean he did not get pace off the ground with the backspinner. It definitely, skids off the ground faster than a topspinner or leg break. Even philpott stated that every good aussie leg spinner had a good backspinner to be really successful, and also the technique was as guarded as a state secret.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I get great pleasure out of bowling my captain out who's a Chinaman bowler and our all time biggest wicket taker over a season and also doesn't go for many runs. But I have realised that he tends to bowl at the last 5 and puts me and the others to bowl spin at the openers and middle order! But - yeah it's good to bowl out someone quite easily who should know what you're doing and has played cricket for over 20 years and have them say "Dave I can't play your balls - I don't know whether they're off breaks or leg breaks or whether they're going bounce or skid".
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;343647 said:
And what do you mean he did not get pace off the ground with the backspinner.
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I know it doesn't sound quite right as everyone describes the flipper as picking up pace, but Grimmett clearly believed his upside down flipper, if I could call it that, with topspin or overspin picked up pace off the wicket, compared to what we call the flipper with backspin or underspin. Both deliveries are relatively fast and low-bouncing. Pre Warne I think Philpott believed the back-spinning top-spinner was a better delivery to have under your belt than a flipper, and he reckons Benaud bowled this slider very often, sometimes up to half his deliveries!
Grimmett doesn't mention that delivery but does describe an outside of the hand slider that Warne used, which is like the delivery kids develop themselves sometimes as their first variation by going " I know what I'll do, I'll come in and pretend to bowl a leggie and at the last second I'll release a seamer.
Of course plate 14 and a lot of what else Grimmett said might be part of the state secret, and only got revealed by slow motion camera work!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just had a good 12 overs on my practice wicket bowling Leg Breaks and Top Spinners. The Leg breaks were turning well and on a good line and length generally - even got a bit cocky and threw few down the Leg side that turned in and hit the stumps!

Wrist Spin Bowling
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

In terms of speed, its crucial to push the ball out of the hand with the whole face of the ball facing towards the batsmen, using a wrist flick whilst pushing the ball out the hand it shud catch the 3rd finger and spin rapidly at a flatter trajectory, although still spins up thanks to the 3rd finger.

i bowl my leg breaks at around 40-45mph and googly at 35-40mph although as gundalf said these club speed guns are not accurate and i could be faster or slower lol.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Great news about Adil Rashid making the initial England squad. Over the last few years England seem to be doing more to turn out legspinners than Australia.

My young bloke had another great bowling spell at indoor cricket tonight. He took 3 wickets in his two overs, two of them caught and 1 stumping. For indoor cricket he bowls lots of dot balls. Last week he was bowling just about all topspinners, this week nearly all leg-breaks.

I was comparing his bowling to a couple of other young leggies and the big difference is my son really spins the ball fast usually with a perfect rotation, whereas the others kids are still only rolling it, they are flicking their wrists O.k but not using their fingers enough, and the seam is wobbly and the spin slow.

We spend countless hours just spinning it to each other, trying to really get some revs on it, somewhere between roundarm and overarm over a few yards. It really toughens up his spinning finger, in fact the reason he works on his flipper sometimes is to give his third finger a break.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;343647 said:
Macca can you e mail the plates if you can to ebellia@maltanet.net

Thank you

And what do you mean he did not get pace off the ground with the backspinner. It definitely, skids off the ground faster than a topspinner or leg break. Even philpott stated that every good aussie leg spinner had a good backspinner to be really successful, and also the technique was as guarded as a state secret.
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Saddo are you trying this as well? I think this refers to his process of learning the Flipper, he wasn't happy with the fact that the backspin stalls the ball, hence he turns it around for this forward spinning flipper?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Great to hear about your son and how promising he sounds. You are taking the right approach by helping him and using the techniques set out by philpott re the under arm and round arm approach, Unfortunately due to work i can only practice for 1 hour a week, and i jump straight to the 22 yards which is not ideal.

I know i being a bit daring to ask, but what grip, and what does grimmett say about how to bowl the small and big legbreak? I might have missed it if it was in an earlier post as i cannot follow the site everyday.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

leggielaw;343650 said:
In terms of speed, its crucial to push the ball out of the hand with the whole face of the ball facing towards the batsmen, using a wrist flick whilst pushing the ball out the hand it shud catch the 3rd finger and spin rapidly at a flatter trajectory, although still spins up thanks to the 3rd finger.

i bowl my leg breaks at around 40-45mph and googly at 35-40mph although as gundalf said these club speed guns are not accurate and i could be faster or slower lol.
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Man that's fast!!!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Let's hope my son Joe engages with his bowling in the same way that your son has. He's pretty good with it all, he's alway up for a short spell of bowling, but as yet I've not been able to get through to him that he needs to be spinning the ball from hand to hand like I do all of the time, but I think it'll come in time. The local estate kids joined me for a game today, but my kids had gone out with their Mum so missed out. I reckon once the games get going with the rest of the kids off the estate, my boys ethusiasm should increase? I reckon too that one day Joe (the little-un) will just copy me and start spinning the ball himself.

Other than that I've just had a good net session with my team and for the first time ever I opted to bowl against the 1st team bats as opposed to the 2nd team bats. Wow - that was different! I had to really think and be tactical, but did succeed with all of them one by one. The only thing is - it's not like a real game situation where you can build the pressure or vice versa because you're rotating between 4 other blokes, but it's certainly a lot more challenging and it's where I'll be next week rather than the 2nd team players. More info and descriptions on my main blog at Wrist Spin Bowling
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;344198 said:
Great to hear about your son and how promising he sounds. You are taking the right approach by helping him and using the techniques set out by philpott
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Yes that underarm, round arm, overarm routine to another spinner or up against the wall. We only do 20 minutes and not every day but most days all year, like a musician does scales. Best way to teach or unteach a wrongun, as you already know.
My son has been bowling legspin now for 4 years, but we never do long sessions, maybe 20-40 minutes, and not every single day. We might have 6 weeks off all year where we dont do any cricket. But legspin is one branch of the game that you have to keep up all year, everyone one else can knock off cricket for the winter and play football, but I reckon legspinners can't afford to.
Check your email later, Im trying to send some stuff.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

leggielaw;343650 said:
In terms of speed,
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One thing about speed and legspinners is history shows the taller the legspinner the faster he bowls. I reckon every legspinner if he is using his fingers, wrist ,hips and shoulders fully, always appears faster in the middle facing him than from the boundary.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Children dream of dads like you. I know you know this but be careful not to allow him to bowl over the whole 22 yards as probably he is not strong enough.

Woolmer in his book states that the ideal pitch length for different ages is:

7-10 years 15 yards
10-13yrs 18 yards
14 yrs up 22 yards.

Also he stresses to leave the natural action unless, there is something very wrong or there being a risk of injury.And also practice to be in short bursts as you do and being fun games.

Interestingly he states that professor heinrich magnus was sought for help by the prussian army in 1850 to study the trajectory of artillery shells. He noticed that rotating artillery shells deflected in the direction opposite to that of their spin (drift). Then he enters the physics of it all that I know you know by heart.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

leggielaw;343657 said:
im small, around 5ft 9 so i guess its easier for me to get flight with faster delieveries.
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That makes since, Grimmett made use of the same thing, even though he generally falls in the short/slow catergory he was by all accounts deceptively faster than what he appeared. Also he made the ball spin fast which is often different from making it turn a long way.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

next week cricket season is starting and i haven't practiced for 8-9 months and being a legspinner do you guys think i have lost my legbreak in that time or legspinners just lose accuracy?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;343439 said:
This article is interesting in that two leg spinners were playing together, in the same game, and yet they bowled a completely different line. Warne around or outside leg stump due to his leg break,MacGill at or outside offstump as I presume he used his googly frequently. So two leg spinner, different strengths and different lines. Though I believe philpott advices middle or middle and off stump line for mere mortals. Cricinfo - A masterclass in legspin bowling
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The biggest problem with young spinners is they try to bowl Warnes line. Big, big mistake.The very occassional ball down there is ok especially if the batsman is a bit sus. I reckon just as you should err on the side of full length over short, so should kids err in favour of offside over leg. And have a traditional legspinners field to bowl to.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

if ur a natural leg spinner it shouldnt take long to get ur line and length back, but if your not then it will take longer.

i just found out grimmet bowled fast/medium before converting to legspin which i also did, i guess we both viewed the magnificent art of leg spin and took it up, i took leg spin up at 15 and now pushing for my county team at age 17 :) guess we're naturals:p
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;343664 said:
Mention of the wrong wrong one at the end here. Wisden - 1999 - The history of mystery



Received plates macca thanks again
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Maybe I should go back to using it, I've left it a bit this year because of it's lack of speed and the fact that it's obvious if you know me -what I'm about to bowl. Maybe I should drop calling it the Gipper and give it it's proper name?

While I'm at it I just want to note that my thumb is suffering at the 1st joint down from the nail through bowling all the Flipper variations, I've been going at it so much with the Backward flipper and the Grimmett flipper I'm over-doing it physically, so I'll have to ease up.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Same i took up legspin at the age of 15 aswell, Im 16 now so im not that experienced yet but i do have a decent stock legbreak and i remember the first time i bowled legspin, It was very satisfying watching the ball zip to the left as a result of the graceful mechanism of the wrist. This season im hoping to develop my legspin skills further by hoping to create some variety, I have known to accidently bowl the sidespinner which happened like once in 50 balls. So i hope i can further understand my action better and go from there. Can i ask are you, do you have a front on action or a side on action, For me im inbetween but my hips and shoulders are in line so basically everythings going toward middlestump which is my natural line.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Do you agree that the grimmett plates show the following without being privvy to the actual text

plate 10: leg break/doosra
plate 11: offspinner
plate 12: topspinner
plate 13: backspinner
plate 14: topspinner quite similar to plate 12

They all seem to be with a leg break grip, funnily enough contrary to warne/jenner with an important input from the thumb. I do not seem to see any flippers reverse or normal here if you look closely.

What are your ideas, and I was pleased to see that he practiced them for twelve years to perfect them. So till I am 50 I should suss them as someone says on this site.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I do not think I am the ideal person to give advice but...

Ripping leg break, forget the past, go out if you are during your holidays and practice. You are young and have the time to improve. As all coaches say concentrate on your bread and butter leg break. If you are capable spin it hard, then try for accuracy. Buy the book by philpott and follow it religously.

Leggie law you are lucky to have the talent, but remember that talent without long hours practising and experimenting is not enough.If you were ever coached or have some tips, please share them here as everyone young and old is interested on this thread.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Well I had a pretty poor net practice yesterday. Sprayed them everywhere.

Pitched most balls a yard or two short. Mistimed the release and pivot both ways, sending some way outside off-stump and others way down leg-side.

Still it ended on a high note. The last ball I bowled was a beautiful drifting, vicious spinning leg-break that turned about two feet(at the stumps) off a length. Quite possibly the best ball I've ever bowled.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

make sure you have a side on action but make sure you feel natural with it.
and i did have a coach for a small period when i first began, he just watched me bowl and let me develop naturally but if i wasnt doing it right he would keep drumming in what i should be doing.
in the nets i used to practice

day1
30minutes- leg spin
10minutes- googly
30mins-legbreak
day2
30min googly
10min legspin
30min-googly
10min- leg spinday
day3
30min legspin
10minite- any variation
30min- legspin
half the session was without a batsmen then the 2nd half was with one, its important to practice at both. i find it hard to practice in winter though because i play football so i only practice once a week but soon as may comes i practice everyday sometimes hours on end.
most of what i do know dave has covered with he's great blog and this furom, im still learning everyday, and will continue to learn from this furom and books etc..
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;343884 said:
Do you agree that the grimmett plates show the following
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plate 10: gipper
plate 11: _ _ipper
plate 12: _ _ipper
plate 13: flipper
plate 14: topspinner quite similar to plate 12

I think that's right ! I will try and get you the text.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ripping-LegBreak;344308 said:
next week cricket season is starting and i haven't practiced for 8-9 months and being a legspinner do you guys think i have lost my legbreak in that time or legspinners just lose accuracy?
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I'm with Macca on this - even people that don't bowl wrist spin acknowledge it is the most difficult discipline in cricket and if you want to stay on top of the game and get your overs in a match you're going to have to come up with the goods when you start to play. That coupled with general lack of understanding and empathy from most cricket captains you're always potentially going to be the bloke that's left in the field and overlooked as a bowler?

Saying that I don't think you'll lose it, yeah you may have lost some of your abilities, but more than anything you've lost 8 or 9 months of potential practice and learning which is a real shame. In that 8 or 9 months you could have worked on a new delivery and improved your Leg Break massively. Mr Philpott would not be impressed!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;343882 said:
Maybe I should go back to using it, I've left it a bit this year because of it's lack of speed and the fact that it's obvious if you know me -what I'm about to bowl. Maybe I should drop calling it the Gipper and give it it's proper name ?
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I prefer gipper. I reckon under Bowlers Union laws if you discover a delivery by your own experimentation you can call it what you want. Some of those deliveries Warne got his hands around, like zooters and hooters....hang on hooters wasn't a delivery, but he certainly got his hands aruond some!.. anyway they were nothing new.
Grimmett, Bedser, Philpott, all say bowlers should invent and try and come up with their own solutions. But there is nothing new under the sun, and in the 1800's blokes were bowling all sorts of stuff, probably doosras and flippers and everything else.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;344300 said:
Children dream of dads like you. I know you know this but be careful not to allow him to bowl over the whole 22 yards as probably he is not strong enough.

Woolmer in his book states that the ideal pitch length for different ages is:

7-10 years 15 yards
10-13yrs 18 yards
14 yrs up 22 yards.

Also he stresses to leave the natural action unless, there is something very wrong or there being a risk of injury.And also practice to be in short bursts as you do and being fun games.

Interestingly he states that professor heinrich magnus was sought for help by the prussian army in 1850 to study the trajectory of artillery shells. He noticed that rotating artillery shells deflected in the direction opposite to that of their spin (drift). Then he enters the physics of it all that I know you know by heart.
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That's interesting Saddo, as I'm trying to get my 7 year old to bowl 17 yards and at the moment he's struggling, maybe I should shorten it till his arm gets a bit stronger. And yeah I'm a definite advocate of the short and sweet approach and as soon as he/they signs of getting fed up with it I let them go otherwise it's going to be seen as a chore.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Today i went for net practice after more than one week.
Had difficulty for the first few balls but after bowling 4-5 deliveries;i was in the rhythm and bowled superbly to the batsmen troubling them and struck gold by bowling my captain from around the wicket ball pitched on leg stump and bowled his off stump out---similar the kind of delivery mike gatting got bowled to shane warne...that was the sight to be seen...superb having be doing it on a regular basis now...i enjoy the look on the batsmen's face after that....

Enjoyed bowling and avoid batting for the same.

Unfortunately i will be out of town for work so will miss the net tomorrow and then on "Good Friday" will attend the nets.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

leggielaw;344310 said:
if ur a natural leg spinner it shouldnt take long to get ur line and length back, but if your not then it will take longer.

i just found out grimmet bowled fast/medium before converting to legspin which i also did, i guess we both viewed the magnificent art of leg spin and took it up, i took leg spin up at 15 and now pushing for my county team at age 17 :) guess we're naturals:p
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County team! Good work LL, let us know how you get on, how does your captain treat you as a leg spinner, does he give you your overs willingly and use you as an attack player or is he more inclined to use you when he's run out of ideas?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;343958 said:
plate 10: gipper
plate 11: _ _ipper
plate 12: _ _ipper
plate 13: flipper
plate 14: topspinner quite similar to plate 12

I think that's right ! I will try and get you the text.
Click to expand...

Blimey that's an ask - Plate 10 looks like the backward Flipper - the same ball as plate 14.

Plate 11, is interesting and is potentially bowled with the thumb nearest the face and the little finger the bat and then flicked with the thumb potentially? Looks very interesting.

Plate 12 looks like 11 from a different angle?

Plate 13 is the same technique as 11 & 12 but with the arm/wrist rotated 180 degrees? So would back spin?

All of these rely primarily with flicking the ball using the thumb in the Iverson Gleeson/Carumb ball way by the looks of it. Which is hell of a difficult thing to do compared with the Flipper thumb click.

Plate 14 is the backward flipper - the hand is simply turned 180 degrees so that the ball spins over itself as a top spinner and breaks like an off-break.

That's what I reckon anyway!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ripping-LegBreak;344315 said:
Same i took up legspin at the age of 15 aswell, Im 16 now so im not that experienced yet but i do have a decent stock legbreak and i remember the first time i bowled legspin, It was very satisfying watching the ball zip to the left as a result of the graceful mechanism of the wrist. This season im hoping to develop my legspin skills further by hoping to create some variety, I have known to accidently bowl the sidespinner which happened like once in 50 balls. So i hope i can further understand my action better and go from there. Can i ask are you, do you have a front on action or a side on action, For me im inbetween but my hips and shoulders are in line so basically everythings going toward middlestump which is my natural line.
Click to expand...

Ripping Legbreak - if I was you I'd try and learn the Top-spinner as it's such an easy progression and the amount of dip you can get off it with a bit of practice is amazing, you bowl it hard and it looks as though it should pitching way beyond the stumps and then it just falls out of the sky - it is such a lovely ball. From there learn the Flipper - do as Macca suggests - use a smaller a ball - tennis balls are good and just learn to give it a good click out of the fingers like this - YouTube - Clarrie Grimmett Flipper Wrist spin bowling A it'll take some time to get your accuracy line and length right but it is so worth it when you use this in combination with the Top Spinner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'd love to be able to do that! I might do it with a wrong un, but with a leg break - no chance for the moment although I did it today with a plastic ball against a kid - pitched miles wide of leg stump came across the front of him and hit the off stump bail - but I reckon it was more a lump than a spin!!!

Virender who's that spin bowler who plays for India at the moment who rotates his arm twice in his delivery, I've been doing that today and it works quite well, a mate of mine here in the UK another Indian Bloke Nakul he does that as well and he's very accurate.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

hmmm yeah i've tried the toppy a couple of times but it still came out like a legbreak due to the natural movement of the wrist to the left, I think i have a new theory. instead of my hand going over the ball on release for the toppy what if i bowl it from the back of the hand with the wrist cocked and flicking it straight without any finger involvement, i reckon it wont bounce but it'll still go straight right, with the seam vertical of course . I got this idea from the fastbowlers slower delivery with the seam vertical but coming out from the back of the hand. What do you guys think?
 
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