someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Sounds bad, what did you do and what does that mean exactly?
Sounds bad, what did you do and what does that mean exactly?
Wrist Spin Bowling
- Thread starter someblokecalleddave
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someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
It could easily be something as simple as this. I have to concentrate massively in order for everything to go smoothly, if I don't concentrate and focus on what I'm doing it just doesn't happen.
Ripping-LegBreak;348492 said:
It could easily be something as simple as this. I have to concentrate massively in order for everything to go smoothly, if I don't concentrate and focus on what I'm doing it just doesn't happen.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I have not heard back from Mr Mallett yet, I gave him a bit of homework if he follows up and reads the 1948 book closely, he may even have trouble getting it if he has not got a copy, I should have sent him a copy of plate 14. He might also think I am some nut who doesn't know what I am talking about or checking out my theory and its implications ,perhaps even how it relates to his book.
Why is it important? well two reasons it involves a slight rewriting of cricket history in relation to the invention and use of the "flipper" by Clarrie Grimmett.
Secondly Grimmett is saying the "flipper" is a useful backspinner to employ very occassionally, more as a change of pace, in the hope of maybe getting a popped up catch, whereas his "mystery ball" that he wreaked so much damage with especially lbw was the reverse; a topspinner, or perhaps more correctly overspinner. If you can disguise it there must be some future in it for the legspinner. It behaves almost the opposite to the flipper it loops out and up drops incredibly then kicks off the pitch with more venom than the "flipper". and the best thing is the bounce is a lot lower than the conventional topspinner so is a lbw ball. In fact until Grimmett legspinners very rarely got lbw in the old days because of bounce and umpires gave batsman benefit in nearly all lbw appeals ( the stumps were slightly shorter till circa 1932 also)
I have not heard back from Mr Mallett yet, I gave him a bit of homework if he follows up and reads the 1948 book closely, he may even have trouble getting it if he has not got a copy, I should have sent him a copy of plate 14. He might also think I am some nut who doesn't know what I am talking about or checking out my theory and its implications ,perhaps even how it relates to his book.
Why is it important? well two reasons it involves a slight rewriting of cricket history in relation to the invention and use of the "flipper" by Clarrie Grimmett.
Secondly Grimmett is saying the "flipper" is a useful backspinner to employ very occassionally, more as a change of pace, in the hope of maybe getting a popped up catch, whereas his "mystery ball" that he wreaked so much damage with especially lbw was the reverse; a topspinner, or perhaps more correctly overspinner. If you can disguise it there must be some future in it for the legspinner. It behaves almost the opposite to the flipper it loops out and up drops incredibly then kicks off the pitch with more venom than the "flipper". and the best thing is the bounce is a lot lower than the conventional topspinner so is a lbw ball. In fact until Grimmett legspinners very rarely got lbw in the old days because of bounce and umpires gave batsman benefit in nearly all lbw appeals ( the stumps were slightly shorter till circa 1932 also)
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I empathise with you. I saw mishra the other day.He is a very good indian leg spinner currently playing in the IPL. He had a small flick of the wrist, but the most important seemed to be the knob like turning of the ball by the fingers in an anticlockwise manner. He mainly bowls small legbreaks, with the seam pointing to first slip. Having said that he has a beautiful wrong one, that is effortless.Hope that helps a bit.
Ripping-LegBreak;348492 said:
I empathise with you. I saw mishra the other day.He is a very good indian leg spinner currently playing in the IPL. He had a small flick of the wrist, but the most important seemed to be the knob like turning of the ball by the fingers in an anticlockwise manner. He mainly bowls small legbreaks, with the seam pointing to first slip. Having said that he has a beautiful wrong one, that is effortless.Hope that helps a bit.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
The book still does not seem to be available on amazon or play.com sadly.
macca;348493 said:
The book still does not seem to be available on amazon or play.com sadly.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
That would be a great idea. Maybe get a foreword from philpott or warne. It is true it is surprising that so little is available on the net on leg spin and its variation. We had never heard of this new topspinner that Macca was explaining. It is surprising that you do not even find the distinction between the small and big leg break, something that seems so basic to a quality spinner. Even benaud and jenner never commented on this. I wonder whether the wings to fly goes into these details. And Macca in the course you went to, did they ever delve into thes basics?
someblokecalleddave;348490 said:
That would be a great idea. Maybe get a foreword from philpott or warne. It is true it is surprising that so little is available on the net on leg spin and its variation. We had never heard of this new topspinner that Macca was explaining. It is surprising that you do not even find the distinction between the small and big leg break, something that seems so basic to a quality spinner. Even benaud and jenner never commented on this. I wonder whether the wings to fly goes into these details. And Macca in the course you went to, did they ever delve into thes basics?
gundalf7
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
it is interesting to see how obsessed grimmett got over his bowling, i doubt many retiring players today even consider picking up a ball regularly once they are 50+. Yeah I do bowl a sort of reverse flipper that has the same sort of effect and keeps low like a flipper but is quicker off the surface like a toppie, though I just bowl it like a flipper with the same grip but just click my fingers in the opposite direction to normal. Its useful-ish as a surprise ball after alot of leg breaks.
it is interesting to see how obsessed grimmett got over his bowling, i doubt many retiring players today even consider picking up a ball regularly once they are 50+. Yeah I do bowl a sort of reverse flipper that has the same sort of effect and keeps low like a flipper but is quicker off the surface like a toppie, though I just bowl it like a flipper with the same grip but just click my fingers in the opposite direction to normal. Its useful-ish as a surprise ball after alot of leg breaks.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Some bowlers seem to have the topspinner as their natural delivery which is ok, some though it becomes their stock ball( keery o keefe for instance) which is a worry.
When my son seems locked on topspinner we do a lot of work , especially the day before and the morning of the match bowling over a short distance and checking the seam to make sure we are legspinning, doing lots of underarm and roundarm legspin, short distances. Also what works for him, and this is slightly counter to wrongun syndrome theory, is bowling a fair few wronguns in a row the day before even though he might not bowl one if he gets less than 4 overs bowling in the innings, and that seems to help get away from topspinning as well, I dont know why but it seems to help suppleness of the wrist.
I notice if we do this before the game he usually has his sidespin back, it might only work for him but it definately does.
Ripping-LegBreak;348492 said:
Some bowlers seem to have the topspinner as their natural delivery which is ok, some though it becomes their stock ball( keery o keefe for instance) which is a worry.
When my son seems locked on topspinner we do a lot of work , especially the day before and the morning of the match bowling over a short distance and checking the seam to make sure we are legspinning, doing lots of underarm and roundarm legspin, short distances. Also what works for him, and this is slightly counter to wrongun syndrome theory, is bowling a fair few wronguns in a row the day before even though he might not bowl one if he gets less than 4 overs bowling in the innings, and that seems to help get away from topspinning as well, I dont know why but it seems to help suppleness of the wrist.
I notice if we do this before the game he usually has his sidespin back, it might only work for him but it definately does.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
You have to wonder why he kept going untill ,they reckon, well into his 80,s.
Did you work out the reverse flipper or did someone show you gundalf, it is like Dave discovering the gipper by himself, Mallett says that Grimmett saw great potential for the gipper ( ''wrong wrogun" he called it ) right until the end of his life and could still bowl it in his 80,s !
You have to wonder why he kept going untill ,they reckon, well into his 80,s.
Did you work out the reverse flipper or did someone show you gundalf, it is like Dave discovering the gipper by himself, Mallett says that Grimmett saw great potential for the gipper ( ''wrong wrogun" he called it ) right until the end of his life and could still bowl it in his 80,s !
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Wings to Fly may eventually become a reality this Sunday as I've got my first game with Grays & Chadwell - this is the game where we're fielding 4 Leg Spinners and one off spinner!
Wings to Fly may eventually become a reality this Sunday as I've got my first game with Grays & Chadwell - this is the game where we're fielding 4 Leg Spinners and one off spinner!
gundalf7
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
nah it was complete accident really, i remember hearing somewhere when I started leg spin that a flipper was like clicking your fingers and for a long while I thought what I was bowling was the flipper as it behaved similarish lol, but it turned out i'd been clicking my fingers the wrong direction, it got my first wickets with leg spin for my club and uni last year both bowled so it is pretty effective. Its been ages since i've really bowled it as my arm ball seems to have taken the place of a quicker ball at the mo.
nah it was complete accident really, i remember hearing somewhere when I started leg spin that a flipper was like clicking your fingers and for a long while I thought what I was bowling was the flipper as it behaved similarish lol, but it turned out i'd been clicking my fingers the wrong direction, it got my first wickets with leg spin for my club and uni last year both bowled so it is pretty effective. Its been ages since i've really bowled it as my arm ball seems to have taken the place of a quicker ball at the mo.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Macca, it sounds as though you're attaching a lot of Merit to this back-spinning Top-Spinner? It's as though you suspect it's a ball worth pursuing?
Macca, it sounds as though you're attaching a lot of Merit to this back-spinning Top-Spinner? It's as though you suspect it's a ball worth pursuing?
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
But when you had a session with jenner/philpott inthe past, i do not remember which one did they go into detail on this? And how about trying to get your son's coach interested in this forum?
macca;348503 said:
But when you had a session with jenner/philpott inthe past, i do not remember which one did they go into detail on this? And how about trying to get your son's coach interested in this forum?
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Good luck. Will it be the sunday seconds?
someblokecalleddave;348501 said:
Good luck. Will it be the sunday seconds?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
You're wetting my appetite for this ball with your recent posts. I have tried it, I spent 1/2 an hour messing around with it a few weeks back. I got the Top-Spin and it turned like an off-spinner. The line was difficult, but getting the distance didn't seem a problem. Maybe I'll re-visit it again? In the short term though I'm more interested in looking at the nuances of different combinations of finger use with the back-spinning Flipper.
You're wetting my appetite for this ball with your recent posts. I have tried it, I spent 1/2 an hour messing around with it a few weeks back. I got the Top-Spin and it turned like an off-spinner. The line was difficult, but getting the distance didn't seem a problem. Maybe I'll re-visit it again? In the short term though I'm more interested in looking at the nuances of different combinations of finger use with the back-spinning Flipper.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
By the way, Warne got three wickets in 4 overs today in the IPL. Sadly did not see the match.
Also the aussies have not selected any wrist spinner, so no Casson or McGain sadly. Only Katich will get the odd over it seems or maybe white but I doubt he will make the test side unless there are loads of injuries. He will play the shorter version. Any way his stock delivery is the non turning leg break.
By the way, Warne got three wickets in 4 overs today in the IPL. Sadly did not see the match.
Also the aussies have not selected any wrist spinner, so no Casson or McGain sadly. Only Katich will get the odd over it seems or maybe white but I doubt he will make the test side unless there are loads of injuries. He will play the shorter version. Any way his stock delivery is the non turning leg break.
Ripping-LegBreak
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Hi guys, remember i posted last week that my legbreaks weren't turning i think i know why, today i got someone to analyse my bowling and they said the seam was rotating straight, this confused me because i have never ever attempted to bowl a topspinner so how could my legbreaks be turning into toppies?
Hi guys, remember i posted last week that my legbreaks weren't turning i think i know why, today i got someone to analyse my bowling and they said the seam was rotating straight, this confused me because i have never ever attempted to bowl a topspinner so how could my legbreaks be turning into toppies?
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
My wife is a published and translated author and she said the thread could make a book and she hasn't even seen it. But I said we haven't got a name to sell a book but you never know we might end up with a foreward from Ashley Mallett.
someblokecalleddave;348490 said:
My wife is a published and translated author and she said the thread could make a book and she hasn't even seen it. But I said we haven't got a name to sell a book but you never know we might end up with a foreward from Ashley Mallett.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Your wrist has moved round or maybe it's not coming of your 3rd finger with any fizz? Do you give it a big flick with the wrist or is yours more of a drag off the 3rd finger leg break?
Your wrist has moved round or maybe it's not coming of your 3rd finger with any fizz? Do you give it a big flick with the wrist or is yours more of a drag off the 3rd finger leg break?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah I think so, but the team sounds like it's loaded with 1st team batsmen as well. As far as I know the oppo is going to be announced tonight and whether it's at home or away, it'll be interesting with all those spinners, by the sounds of it we're opening with Leg Spinners and then the change will be Leg Spinners! Maybe if there's a lefty in there they'll have Wayne our Off-spinner in earlier?
sadspinner;348506 said:
Yeah I think so, but the team sounds like it's loaded with 1st team batsmen as well. As far as I know the oppo is going to be announced tonight and whether it's at home or away, it'll be interesting with all those spinners, by the sounds of it we're opening with Leg Spinners and then the change will be Leg Spinners! Maybe if there's a lefty in there they'll have Wayne our Off-spinner in earlier?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Bad move this - I've been giving this a go tonight and now have knackered a muscle in my forearm!
someblokecalleddave;348313 said:
Bad move this - I've been giving this a go tonight and now have knackered a muscle in my forearm!
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Sounds like your attack will have loads of variation. Many legspinners but all so different. Tell your w/keeper to get ready for the stumpings from the word go as their plan will be to put you off your line early.
someblokecalleddave;348511 said:
Sounds like your attack will have loads of variation. Many legspinners but all so different. Tell your w/keeper to get ready for the stumpings from the word go as their plan will be to put you off your line early.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I have not been following for the last few days. I have no idea what this is all about. Are you referring to something like jenners slider here, or is it as though you are bowling the slider ie with the pinky pointing at the batsmen but instead of backspinning(like the slider), you like bowl a flipper towards yourself while bowling it forward? Sounds confusing.
someblokecalleddave;348311 said:
I have not been following for the last few days. I have no idea what this is all about. Are you referring to something like jenners slider here, or is it as though you are bowling the slider ie with the pinky pointing at the batsmen but instead of backspinning(like the slider), you like bowl a flipper towards yourself while bowling it forward? Sounds confusing.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah that'd be interesting and no doubt useful as a vehicle to get it noticed. One of the criticisms you could aim at Philpotts book is that it's limited in it's images and the way that they have the potential to help explain some of the theories and techniques. I was thinking tonight walking home from work that it wouldn't be that difficult to produce images that show in stages the ball being released from the hand with most of these varitaions that we speak about showing the direction of the spin and the seams position.
macca;348510 said:
Yeah that'd be interesting and no doubt useful as a vehicle to get it noticed. One of the criticisms you could aim at Philpotts book is that it's limited in it's images and the way that they have the potential to help explain some of the theories and techniques. I was thinking tonight walking home from work that it wouldn't be that difficult to produce images that show in stages the ball being released from the hand with most of these varitaions that we speak about showing the direction of the spin and the seams position.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
No this is the flipper with the hand turned inwards so you flip it towards yourself thus giving it top-spin.
No this is the flipper with the hand turned inwards so you flip it towards yourself thus giving it top-spin.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
What is the use though? The actual topspinner will have more topspin, as all the energy in the ball is directed forwards towards the batsman. On the other hand this ball seems to have you bowling a flipper towards yourself, while bowling it forward, so there is loss of forward momentum, I presume it will be slower in the air but will be slower, and I also suspect that there will be an element of offspin. But these are presumptions, and i will need to do it on the field of battle to confirm.
So, the advantages of this would be that the batsman will not read it as a topspinner, and a possible element of offspin( a pseudo wrong one). The disatvantages would be, slower in the air and more risk of bowling on the wrong line/length/wide. Or am I wrong?
someblokecalleddave;348481 said:
What is the use though? The actual topspinner will have more topspin, as all the energy in the ball is directed forwards towards the batsman. On the other hand this ball seems to have you bowling a flipper towards yourself, while bowling it forward, so there is loss of forward momentum, I presume it will be slower in the air but will be slower, and I also suspect that there will be an element of offspin. But these are presumptions, and i will need to do it on the field of battle to confirm.
So, the advantages of this would be that the batsman will not read it as a topspinner, and a possible element of offspin( a pseudo wrong one). The disatvantages would be, slower in the air and more risk of bowling on the wrong line/length/wide. Or am I wrong?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah I will do, I don't think there'll be a fight for that end as I'll probably bowl with my mate 'The Wizard' and I'm fairly certain as I recall he likes the wind behind him, I'm not sure that he realises the benefits of bowling into the wind and I don't think he has a Top-Spinner or the level of control over his Leg Break to vary it to introduce the Top Spin and make it dip. So I should be okay.
Yeah I will do, I don't think there'll be a fight for that end as I'll probably bowl with my mate 'The Wizard' and I'm fairly certain as I recall he likes the wind behind him, I'm not sure that he realises the benefits of bowling into the wind and I don't think he has a Top-Spinner or the level of control over his Leg Break to vary it to introduce the Top Spin and make it dip. So I should be okay.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Just to go to basics , as these variations are making my head and not ball spin, would I be right in stating:
Leg break: Back of hand faces the face on delivery for the small leg break.
Topspinner: Back of the hand faces the sky and eventually faces the batsman
Googly: Back of the hand faces the sky and eventually the ground.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Just to go to basics , as these variations are making my head and not ball spin, would I be right in stating:
Leg break: Back of hand faces the face on delivery for the small leg break.
Topspinner: Back of the hand faces the sky and eventually faces the batsman
Googly: Back of the hand faces the sky and eventually the ground.
Correct me if I am wrong.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I'm doing some work on the Leg Break section of my Wrist Spin blog. I've had some success with the Proper Leg Break tonight and I'm anticipating being able to write about it with some knowledge in the near future and thought I need to write an introductory section for beginners. Have a look. I'm wondering if it's too much like Philpotts?
If you're new to bowling the Leg Break and you're not having a great deal of luck with it here's a few suggestions that may help you get on your way with it.
One of the main things that you need to come to terms with is the fact that all wrist spin bowlers bowl their leg breaks in different ways meaning that their grips are similar but at the same time varied. The basic grip is the 2 fingers up crossing the seam with the finger tips on the seam and more importantly the 3rd (Ring finger) placed on the seam. How much involvement your thumb has in the grip is something that you'll discover in time, but initially it's involvement in most peoples cases is minimal. How hard you grip the ball again is a personal thing, but you're probably best to grip it so that it feels secure in the hand but fairly relaxed. Some people grip it really hard and others like myself grip it very loosely. Again all these variations will change as you learn how to bowl and spin the ball.
Now you've got to learn to spin the ball. Holding you hands out in front of yourself with the ball in your right hand with your grip with the palm facing up throw the ball from the right hand to the left by turning the wrist over the top of the ball and spinning the ball as you do so using the 3rd finger. See youtube clip ******* Now do this all the time whenever you can, use tennis balls, cricket balls, apples, oranges, cubes - anything just as long as you're using your wrist and this action to impart spin on the object. Do this night and day every day and everywhere you can so that the action becomes embedded as a remembered reflex.
Once you're getting the hang of it and can do it with a degree of control let the ball drop to the floor and observe what happens. As you stand and face forwards the dropped ball with it's over-spin should now bounce off to your left quite acutely depending on how much spin you're putting on it. This is a the basis of a Leg Break ball.
I'm doing some work on the Leg Break section of my Wrist Spin blog. I've had some success with the Proper Leg Break tonight and I'm anticipating being able to write about it with some knowledge in the near future and thought I need to write an introductory section for beginners. Have a look. I'm wondering if it's too much like Philpotts?
If you're new to bowling the Leg Break and you're not having a great deal of luck with it here's a few suggestions that may help you get on your way with it.
One of the main things that you need to come to terms with is the fact that all wrist spin bowlers bowl their leg breaks in different ways meaning that their grips are similar but at the same time varied. The basic grip is the 2 fingers up crossing the seam with the finger tips on the seam and more importantly the 3rd (Ring finger) placed on the seam. How much involvement your thumb has in the grip is something that you'll discover in time, but initially it's involvement in most peoples cases is minimal. How hard you grip the ball again is a personal thing, but you're probably best to grip it so that it feels secure in the hand but fairly relaxed. Some people grip it really hard and others like myself grip it very loosely. Again all these variations will change as you learn how to bowl and spin the ball.
Now you've got to learn to spin the ball. Holding you hands out in front of yourself with the ball in your right hand with your grip with the palm facing up throw the ball from the right hand to the left by turning the wrist over the top of the ball and spinning the ball as you do so using the 3rd finger. See youtube clip ******* Now do this all the time whenever you can, use tennis balls, cricket balls, apples, oranges, cubes - anything just as long as you're using your wrist and this action to impart spin on the object. Do this night and day every day and everywhere you can so that the action becomes embedded as a remembered reflex.
Once you're getting the hang of it and can do it with a degree of control let the ball drop to the floor and observe what happens. As you stand and face forwards the dropped ball with it's over-spin should now bounce off to your left quite acutely depending on how much spin you're putting on it. This is a the basis of a Leg Break ball.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah some of that. It has off-spin attributes but possibly the key thing is that it doesn't look like a top-spinner. A top spinner is a pretty obvious ball and I reckon if anything the back-spinning Flipper may look like a Slider so if you're trying to read it you may expect that because it's coming out of the back of the hand it's going to be back-spinning and skid in low whereas it potentially dips and then jumps up and on to you?
But I'm not pursuing it certainly not this season as both times I've tried it I've injured myself.
Yeah some of that. It has off-spin attributes but possibly the key thing is that it doesn't look like a top-spinner. A top spinner is a pretty obvious ball and I reckon if anything the back-spinning Flipper may look like a Slider so if you're trying to read it you may expect that because it's coming out of the back of the hand it's going to be back-spinning and skid in low whereas it potentially dips and then jumps up and on to you?
But I'm not pursuing it certainly not this season as both times I've tried it I've injured myself.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Saddo was asking about Philpotts clinic and the above was his main message "spin the ball, any ball" was his main directive he used Aurthur Maileys line, he was our first great legspinner and he said " an orange spun a hundred times always tastes better"
Your blog on legspin already has the bones of an instruction manual, the photos are excellent , but that frame by frame view you mentioned would really help beginners. Perhaps a selling point of a book could be how to bowl a ball almost lost to history it seems, "Grimmetts mystery ball"
Maybe we should talk private lest someone beats us with the scoop?
someblokecalleddave;348516 said:
Saddo was asking about Philpotts clinic and the above was his main message "spin the ball, any ball" was his main directive he used Aurthur Maileys line, he was our first great legspinner and he said " an orange spun a hundred times always tastes better"
Your blog on legspin already has the bones of an instruction manual, the photos are excellent , but that frame by frame view you mentioned would really help beginners. Perhaps a selling point of a book could be how to bowl a ball almost lost to history it seems, "Grimmetts mystery ball"
Maybe we should talk private lest someone beats us with the scoop?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yep apart from - Top-spinner, back of the hand faces you and your thumb points forward at the batsman.
But your right this is all getting very complex. But I think it's dead interesting and I can't believe that there's not more information on all these subtleties to wrist spinning. The potential for variations is seemingly vast the only issue is how much life have you got to experiment with them all! I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the subject as there isn't such a thing other than Philpotts. Today at work I was talking to one of the Publishing course lecturers and she was showing me the students 'Final Major Project' work. They have to write and make a book and they get a book company to make them a short runs of books. So a 50 page book you can have about 10 copies made for 25 quid. I asked her if you were to do this, would the book then be a good vehicle with which to approach publishing companies with a view to printing the book on a commercial scale and she said yes. She used to be a big name in the group Random House and she said that she'd help me write it and get it together. So that's something to think about?
sadspinner;348488 said:
Yep apart from - Top-spinner, back of the hand faces you and your thumb points forward at the batsman.
But your right this is all getting very complex. But I think it's dead interesting and I can't believe that there's not more information on all these subtleties to wrist spinning. The potential for variations is seemingly vast the only issue is how much life have you got to experiment with them all! I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the subject as there isn't such a thing other than Philpotts. Today at work I was talking to one of the Publishing course lecturers and she was showing me the students 'Final Major Project' work. They have to write and make a book and they get a book company to make them a short runs of books. So a 50 page book you can have about 10 copies made for 25 quid. I asked her if you were to do this, would the book then be a good vehicle with which to approach publishing companies with a view to printing the book on a commercial scale and she said yes. She used to be a big name in the group Random House and she said that she'd help me write it and get it together. So that's something to think about?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah you're probably right that's the kind of thing that happens to my ideas! I'm off now we'll discuss more no doubt tomorrow.
Yeah you're probably right that's the kind of thing that happens to my ideas! I'm off now we'll discuss more no doubt tomorrow.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Saddo, I just emailed you plate 14. I thought I had but a bit mustn't have got through .I am going to reformat it to a smaller file so i well send it all then. Grimmett wanted a topspinner that did not bounce too much, he always had the umpires in his pocket, they were as mesmerised as any one else with his bowling, but untill he came along legspinners rarely got lbw.
He sees this ball as fitting into one of his main maxims; that a legspinner should gain or appear to gain pace, (because he states it is scientically impossible to do so) off the wicket most of the time, except as a rare variation and he means by that about none for two hundred and something.
The modern flipper to him doesn't, it cant with backspin, and he used that flipper rarely more as a change of pace ball along with another"slider" he describes on page 50. You would have to be observant to work out his flipper from his description, but it is obvious to modern eyes.
Saddo, I just emailed you plate 14. I thought I had but a bit mustn't have got through .I am going to reformat it to a smaller file so i well send it all then. Grimmett wanted a topspinner that did not bounce too much, he always had the umpires in his pocket, they were as mesmerised as any one else with his bowling, but untill he came along legspinners rarely got lbw.
He sees this ball as fitting into one of his main maxims; that a legspinner should gain or appear to gain pace, (because he states it is scientically impossible to do so) off the wicket most of the time, except as a rare variation and he means by that about none for two hundred and something.
The modern flipper to him doesn't, it cant with backspin, and he used that flipper rarely more as a change of pace ball along with another"slider" he describes on page 50. You would have to be observant to work out his flipper from his description, but it is obvious to modern eyes.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
You have to have a laugh at the people that comment on youtube when you post up your vids. They're such a knowledgable bunch and full of the joys of humanity.
Here's a prime example. But before you read the comments watch the video http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-bowl-leg-spin and see how fundamentally wrong it is. Then see how peeved the respondents are. This kind of quantifies my point that there is so little in the way of useful information out there.
Have a look at this gem, another bloke trying to explain it but then seems to lose his way and demonstrates a ball coming out of the back of the hand again and a potential Wrong Un. At this point I've looked at 10 of the first websites using Google that come up when you search 'How to bowl legspin' and apart from the Jenner/Warne videos it's all very rudimentary and in many cases wrong!
Here's that bloke again Mike Whittaker on cricinfo. Not only is he a Flipper denier but he comes up with this theory relating to the Top-Spinner.....
Topsin or Overspin
First of all, lets hold it so its (invisible) axle is at right angles to us, and set it spinning so its top moves away from us and its bottom towards us (Looking from the right hand side, this is clockwise). Now lets throw it, still spinning, away from us towards a suitably attired friend (bat, pads, box, gloves...).
So, what happens when it bounces? The vertical component of its velocity reverses direction, still, just like any other bouncing ball. Its underside is moving towards us, so it will acquire velocity in a direction opposite to that, namely away from us, towards our friend. This will add to the existing horizontal component of its velocity towards him.
The result of this is that the tyre will speed up when it bounces. It will get to him faster than a ordinary, non-spinning tyre, because the component of its velocity towards him has increased, and it won't have had time to bounce as high as a result.
This is topsin. The characteristic behaviour of a topspun object when it bounces, as I hope I've just shown, is that it speeds up and seems to keep low, to 'shoot'.
The bit that I find contentious is the last line 'And seems to keep low - to shoot'
Now please correct me if I'm wrong but the Top Spinner surely rises rather than keeps low? I get very worried when I read this stuff on sites such as cricinfo because it turns my world upside down!
Here's the source http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ABOUT_CRICKET/EXPLANATION/LEGSPIN_PHYSICS.html
You have to have a laugh at the people that comment on youtube when you post up your vids. They're such a knowledgable bunch and full of the joys of humanity.
Here's a prime example. But before you read the comments watch the video http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-bowl-leg-spin and see how fundamentally wrong it is. Then see how peeved the respondents are. This kind of quantifies my point that there is so little in the way of useful information out there.
Have a look at this gem, another bloke trying to explain it but then seems to lose his way and demonstrates a ball coming out of the back of the hand again and a potential Wrong Un. At this point I've looked at 10 of the first websites using Google that come up when you search 'How to bowl legspin' and apart from the Jenner/Warne videos it's all very rudimentary and in many cases wrong!
Here's that bloke again Mike Whittaker on cricinfo. Not only is he a Flipper denier but he comes up with this theory relating to the Top-Spinner.....
Topsin or Overspin
First of all, lets hold it so its (invisible) axle is at right angles to us, and set it spinning so its top moves away from us and its bottom towards us (Looking from the right hand side, this is clockwise). Now lets throw it, still spinning, away from us towards a suitably attired friend (bat, pads, box, gloves...).
So, what happens when it bounces? The vertical component of its velocity reverses direction, still, just like any other bouncing ball. Its underside is moving towards us, so it will acquire velocity in a direction opposite to that, namely away from us, towards our friend. This will add to the existing horizontal component of its velocity towards him.
The result of this is that the tyre will speed up when it bounces. It will get to him faster than a ordinary, non-spinning tyre, because the component of its velocity towards him has increased, and it won't have had time to bounce as high as a result.
This is topsin. The characteristic behaviour of a topspun object when it bounces, as I hope I've just shown, is that it speeds up and seems to keep low, to 'shoot'.
The bit that I find contentious is the last line 'And seems to keep low - to shoot'
Now please correct me if I'm wrong but the Top Spinner surely rises rather than keeps low? I get very worried when I read this stuff on sites such as cricinfo because it turns my world upside down!
Here's the source http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ABOUT_CRICKET/EXPLANATION/LEGSPIN_PHYSICS.html
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