Wrist Spin Bowling

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Re our wickets - I'm of the impression that they get worse, they almost become powdery so you're almost bowling into a sandy consistency! That's what Grays was like last year, no-one could get the ball to bounce.

Tell them to get the heavy roller on to compact it, and get the areas of rough to bowl onto. But it is agreed if there is practically no bounce that is a problem, possibly bowl flippers and toppies to confuse them with the minimal bounce change. By the way, if the bounce is so low how do batsmen hit the ball. It must be with the toe ends as i think the sweet spot is usually higher up on the bat unless it is made for the subcontinent.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Could be true because before i was forcing the ball out of the hand which prompted greater potential for the ball to turn now it seems a nice, gentle flick out of the hand, nice and easy. I think i should go back to my old method by uncocking a stiffly cocked wrist at point of delivery which gave the ball alot of momentum. . The reason i changed was because my new grip has made the googly easier to bowl and easier for me to control deliveries too.

That's an interesting approach and something I tried last weekend (the unfurled cocked wrist approach) and it did work to some extent. It's all these slightly different approaches that all seem to have some benefit that I'm trying to work through in order to establish one good technique that I'm happy with. Hopefully I'll get it at some point.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I think Warne had the flipper before the backspinner as shown in the jenner video. Bob Simpson showed him how to bowl it, and Simpson called it Philpotts backspinning topspinner. Philpott says Benaud bowled this delivery very often sometimes up to half his deliveries! and it was a better ball than Benauds flipper.

Did you ever see warne though bowl the backspinner, I do not recall seeing any on you tube, so probably was not a big wicket taking delivery. If you can find one can you post the link please. Jenners is the only one I have seen, it seems to be quite easy for him though maybe he had to have many takes before he got it right(becoming nasty)

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

See! It's all too much! Now Macca's coming up with his "Traffic Cop" Finish which also works for me, none of the commentators on the tele know whether they're coming or going - it's information over-load!!!! Cor blimey!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just looked at Jenners vid again as you're talking about it and it looks do-able but at this juncture what with me saying I'm going to take Grimmetts advice and concentrate on three deliveries I'll steer well clear of it. I reckon if there's any Aussies out there that are looking in but not contributing and there obviously is because we get so many views on this thread - it's you lot that should be giving this a go as you're in your closed season and letting us know how you're getting on and upload your vids on youtube?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Also today Afridi (pakistani leg spinner/bighitter), took 3 wickets for about 18 off 4 overs in a 20/20 game.

I could watch him play all day that guy. whenever he has the bat or the ball the game comes alive.

Ponting did a masterclass a couple of weeks ago on channel 9 and they asked him why Afridis' wrongun was causing so much trouble for the Aussie Batsmen. Ponting said it is just that bowlers from Pakistan and India are better bowlers of that particular delivery.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Tell them to get the heavy roller on to compact it, and get the areas of rough to bowl onto. But it is agreed if there is practically no bounce that is a problem, possibly bowl flippers and toppies to confuse them with the minimal bounce change. By the way, if the bounce is so low how do batsmen hit the ball. It must be with the toe ends as i think the sweet spot is usually higher up on the bat unless it is made for the subcontinent.

They just have to pick the best one of the 3 or 4 that are there, but this is more of an issue right at the end of the season and maybe fairly unique to our wicket as the council maintain it so badly. We've got a roller and use it all the time. With regards the bats - yeah it's hit almost on the toe when it gets this bad.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca your Traffic Cop technique does that include the flick and if so does the flick precede the final Traffic cop position so that the ball leaves the hand in the traffic cop mode. In which case I'd imagine the flick would come about through starting with the cocked wrist? Or does the arm come over in the Traffic cop position and the flick happens at the point of release with the wrist ending up flicked post release?

I've just watched the Mark Richards/Warne vid again and he goes from a cocked wrist to a the traffic cop position. So that's something I might revisit as that's what I was trying at the weekend and had some success.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Did you ever see warne though bowl the backspinner, I do not recall seeing any on you tube, so probably was not a big wicket taking delivery. If you can find one can you post the link please. Jenners is the only one I have seen, it seems to be quite easy for him though maybe he had to have many takes before he got it right(becoming nasty)

I like that - that's funny!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Maybe i should not have said traffic cop, it is just an exaggerated position I force on my young bloke practising the leg break against the wall and making sure he has his palm facing the batsman, it comes at the end and wouldn't apply to actual bowling but I suppose you could do it as practise over 22 yards.

Sounds like you do this too as a drill or concept as well. I found three more famous legspinners last night, Captain Mainwaring, Seargent Wilson and Private Pike, Walmington On Sea, Home Guard. They all had googlies as well!

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just looked at Jenners vid again as you're talking about it and it looks do-able but at this juncture what with me saying I'm going to take Grimmetts advice and concentrate on three deliveries I'll steer well clear of it. I reckon if there's any Aussies out there that are looking in but not contributing and there obviously is because we get so many views on this thread - it's you lot that should be giving this a go as you're in your closed season and letting us know how you're getting on and upload your vids on youtube?

Yes it looks easy but could never get down to getting it right. I agree with you, macca and the great grummet. When I get round to practising, I am concentrating for 99 per cent of the time on the leg break. Today it was quite windy and in the air you could see the ball changing trajectory. I also used more pivot on the left leg, pivoting on the tip of my toes. It turned more. Unfortunately I have had a bad knee for the last months that hampers too many pirouttes on my left leg.

Also I agree that people who follow this thread, who probably have more experience than us, should come forward and share their views, and experiences, we are very curious to hear from them.


By the way any practice today dave,or did work eat out much of your time? And how are your fingers and chest? God that ball hurts especially if like me you have never played before your late 30's

 

[gundalf7]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

to be fair dave it is about finding something that works for you as different things work for different people. My action used to be awful but switched to a pretty orthodox action and now it seems to have settled on something halfway in between and i'm bowling better than I have for as long as I can remember. Just practice and experiment till you find what works.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The best thing about the slider that jenner demos is if it comes out wrong you get a big leg break, but it wouldn't make a stockball as it turns wide but slow, but will often be the last delivery that stops turning if you know what I mean.

Mc Gill was a good bowler of that ball, he did not use a flipper. I have seen Warne bowl it especially early on in his career. But post shoulder op not so much. I have seen footage of Benaud bowling it. Bob Simpson bowled it so did Jimmy Higgs, Doug Ring of course, I think it was originally called the skimmer which describes its behavour off the pitch whereas slider describes its path to the batsman.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Sounds like you do this too as a drill or concept as well. I found three more famous legspinners last night, Captain Mainwaring, Seargent Wilson and Private Pike, Walmington On Sea, Home Guard. They all had googlies as well!

No you've lost me with this one mate? (Dads army reference).

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

No I was at work till 9pm tonight and I seem to have suffered at the weekend from the game and I'm generally worn out all over bodily. (Might be the beginnings of swine flu or something)!!!? The chest is sore to touch, but there's no bruise as far as I know, there's not enough flesh. the ball hit dead centre in the manubrium Google Image Result for http://www.daviddarling.info/images/rib-cage.jpg and there's no meat there at all. The fingers are okay they've recovered already they just got severely pinged. A bloke in his early 40's died in Cornwall 2-3 years ago from a similar accident and he was a fit and healthy bloke, but it hit him in the centre further down. I sure wont be volunteering to field at short extra cover in the future with any real enthusiasm!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Just found it - This is an excellent DVD for Dads army fans. Firstly, and most importantly the quality of the picture is high. Secondly they have chosen a good selection of episodes. I have two regrets: that they had to show the episode which showed John Le Mesurer (Wilson) after he had suffered a stroke and they did not include the episode on the cricket match which is a classic. However, hopefully this will be remedied in the future. Please re-issue more episodes on DVD.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The best thing about the slider that jenner demos is if it comes out wrong you get a big leg break, but it wouldn't make a stockball as it turns wide but slow, but will often be the last delivery that stops turning if you know what I mean.

Mc Gill was a good bowler of that ball, he did not use a flipper. I have seen Warne bowl it especially early on in his career. But post shoulder op not so much. I have seen footage of Benaud bowling it. Bob Simpson bowled it so did Jimmy Higgs, Doug Ring of course, I think it was originally called the skimmer which describes its behavour off the pitch whereas slider describes its path to the batsman.

You should try getting a PhD on cricketing history Macca. I never saw a clip with MacGill bowling it, but mast admit that I only saw him live in the windies last year, all the others from older clips. He did have a great wrong one though. Never saw any footage of Benaud except one I had posted here a few weeks back. I know he had taken part in an MCC video in the 80's demonstrating something on leg spin, but have never seen the clips.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Believe it or not my 11 year old knows nearly every line of dialogue from nearly every episode as well as "It aint half hot".


Fred Trueman gets a game for the wardens team, remember ? My son has the box set and it is always sad to see John Le Mesurier so ill at the end. He had a beautiful bowling action in the episode. I have seen every show countless times , that is sad also I suppose.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

No I was at work till 9pm tonight and I seem to have suffered at the weekend from the game and I'm generally worn out all over bodily. (Might be the beginnings of swine flu or something)!!!? The chest is sore to touch, but there's no bruise as far as I know, there's not enough flesh. the ball hit dead centre in the manubrium Google Image Result for http://www.daviddarling.info/images/rib-cage.jpg and there's no meat there at all. The fingers are okay they've recovered already they just got severely pinged. A bloke in his early 40's died in Cornwall 2-3 years ago from a similar accident and he was a fit and healthy bloke, but it hit him in the centre further down. I sure wont be volunteering to field at short extra cover in the future with any real enthusiasm!

Oh so you are brushing up on your anatomy too. Yes the only game I had , I fielded at shortish midwicket, but on delivery moved slowly to deeper midwicket, stopped a fullblooded drive and thought I would pick pieces of my bones from the grass. Maybe you should try silly point, no wonder it is called silly.

And regards the flu, look out for any suspicious fever and contacts that have been abroad. I am dreading working at my hospital. Lets hope for the best.

 

[mr bojangles]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hey guys

I've been reading this thread with real interest.

I started playing cricket again after a 12 year break (I'm now 35) and have started turning out regularly for my local club. I've always played as an opening batsman and that's the position I'm filling at the moment.

However - the one thing the team has been lacking is a spin bowler of any description. I'd never really bowled anything other than eminently hittable military medium before but the captain asked me if I could 'reinvent' myself as a spinner.

I started off bowling off-spin in the nets and managed to develop a reliable delivery with a bit of loop and occasional turn. The problem with this was that - while it was reasonably effective at containing batsmen - there was nowhere near enough variation or turn to get wickets. Any half-decent batsman could get the measure of my bowling within a couple of overs.

So I turned to leg-spin. Having never bowled a leg-spinner in my life until this year I am most definitely on a sharp learning curve but the 'addiction' mentioned elsewhere in this thread has really kicked in. Rather than thinking about my batting I've been obsessed with my bowling for the last couple of months - every cricketing thought at the moment is leg-spin, leg-spin, leg-spin.

So, after two months of almost constant practice, I now have a servicable leg-spin delivery (primarily driven by fingers rather than wrist) which turns more than my off-spinners but is still far from Warne-eque (a foot or so of turn on a normal wicket). My strength is not so much my spin but my accuracy - I seem to be able to hit a reasonable length most of the time so I'm not giving away too many easy runs.

I had my first competitive league game last weekend and top scored in a closely fought loss but I actually derived far more pleasure from my bowling figures - 3 for 31 off 12 overs (With two stumpings - oh, the satisfaction of seeing them stranded halfway down the crease!!).

Next game is tomorrow and I'm already getting excited about the chance of bowling again!!

Anyway - a few questions for you guys:

(1) It seems that the more 'off side' my deliveries the less turn I get. If I stray down the leg side I can get quite a lot of turn (i.e. spinning from a foot outside leg to hit middle) but if I bowl the same delivery outside off the turn is minimal. The temptation is to bowl a leg-side line but this proves pretty easy to hit. Is this something others have experienced - any tips for why this might be happening?

(2) I am nowhere near developing a googly so I occasionally throw in the occasional orthodox off spin ball as a variation. Is this 'cheating'? Should I bite the bullet and work on a googly or is it OK to vary off/leg spin in this way?

(3) My only variation is a backspinning delivery - where my palm faces the batsman and I let the ball run along my fingers spinning it backwards in the delivery. The result is a flatter ball with less bounce and can be effective if delivered correctly (which is not often!!). What else should I be working on? Are there any other 'easy' to learn deliveries I can add to my armoury while still very much a new kid on the leg-spin block?

Any help much appreciated guys.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

At last I've had an explanation regarding the selection process which was honest and blunt. We're rammed with so many good players that the first team players have had to join the 2nd team to get a game and the likes of me have have been shoved off the bottom into a potential 3rd team. My ex captain has said that in the next week or so the 3rd team should be shaping up to become a regular team and I'll be back in action then. So I suppose they're sorting fixtures and what have you at the moment and hopefully I'll be back in the game? In the meantime I've potentially got a game on Saturday so I'll have to speak to 'The Boss' but I'm feeling a bit ropey at the minute as I've come down with a cold or something.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Believe it or not my 11 year old knows nearly every line of dialogue from nearly every episode as well as "It aint half hot".


Fred Trueman gets a game for the wardens team, remember ? My son has the box set and it is always sad to see John Le Mesurier so ill at the end. He had a beautiful bowling action in the episode. I have seen every show countless times , that is sad also I suppose.

Do you know what I've been watching Dads Army since I was 6 or something, but I don't ever recall seeing the cricket one! It's being re-run on the tele at the moment and I've seen a few recently, but to be honest I've never been a tele watcher so it's probably slipped past me decade after decade, I'll have to keep an eye out for it.

Aside from that have you noticed how inactive this website is? As I've just logged on it's only you and me on here! They reckon a few they had a figure of 2000 + people online at one time back in 2007? What were they doing - giving away cricket bats or something on that day?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Re our wickets - I'm of the impression that they get worse, they almost become powdery so you're almost bowling into a sandy consistency! That's what Grays was like last year, no-one could get the ball to bounce. I think your 1975 was in fact 1976 when we had at 30 degrees + for over a month? We've had better since there was a brilliant summer a few years back when we had our hottest day of 38 degrees and most sun but it was scattered across the summer rather than concentrated in one big continuous run of sunshine like 76.

I have heard Jenner say that all the talk of English wickets being no good for legspin is bullshit, but he would say that, as it suits him to keep them on a never ending and exspensive search to find one. He cites how successful Warne and Grimmett were, but they were two of the greatest bowlers in history.

Dooland and Benaud amongst others did well and first class pitches are better than the rest, but gee you might find it hard going bowling early in the season. Warne struggled early in the season in England the couple of times he played league cricket there before he was famous. They reckon he used to struggle to get a game in club cricket in Melbourne early in their season with new wickets weekly.

When and if it turns to a dust bowl you may do as good as anyone else, but man, you need that bounce and wind.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hey guys

I've been reading this thread with real interest.

I started playing cricket again after a 12 year break (I'm now 35) and have started turning out regularly for my local club. I've always played as an opening batsman and that's the position I'm filling at the moment.

However - the one thing the team has been lacking is a spin bowler of any description. I'd never really bowled anything other than eminently hittable military medium before but the captain asked me if I could 'reinvent' myself as a spinner.

I started off bowling off-spin in the nets and managed to develop a reliable delivery with a bit of loop and occasional turn. The problem with this was that - while it was reasonably effective at containing batsmen - there was nowhere near enough variation or turn to get wickets. Any half-decent batsman could get the measure of my bowling within a couple of overs.

So I turned to leg-spin. Having never bowled a leg-spinner in my life until this year I am most definitely on a sharp learning curve but the 'addiction' mentioned elsewhere in this thread has really kicked in. Rather than thinking about my batting I've been obsessed with my bowling for the last couple of months - every cricketing thought at the moment is leg-spin, leg-spin, leg-spin.

So, after two months of almost constant practice, I now have a servicable leg-spin delivery (primarily driven by fingers rather than wrist) which turns more than my off-spinners but is still far from Warne-eque (a foot or so of turn on a normal wicket). My strength is not so much my spin but my accuracy - I seem to be able to hit a reasonable length most of the time so I'm not giving away too many easy runs.

I had my first competitive league game last weekend and top scored in a closely fought loss but I actually derived far more pleasure from my bowling figures - 3 for 31 off 12 overs (With two stumpings - oh, the satisfaction of seeing them stranded halfway down the crease!!).

Next game is tomorrow and I'm already getting excited about the chance of bowling again!!

Anyway - a few questions for you guys:

(1) It seems that the more 'off side' my deliveries the less turn I get. If I stray down the leg side I can get quite a lot of turn (i.e. spinning from a foot outside leg to hit middle) but if I bowl the same delivery outside off the turn is minimal. The temptation is to bowl a leg-side line but this proves pretty easy to hit. Is this something others have experienced - any tips for why this might be happening?

(2) I am nowhere near developing a googly so I occasionally throw in the occasional orthodox off spin ball as a variation. Is this 'cheating'? Should I bite the bullet and work on a googly or is it OK to vary off/leg spin in this way?

(3) My only variation is a backspinning delivery - where my palm faces the batsman and I let the ball run along my fingers spinning it backwards in the delivery. The result is a flatter ball with less bounce and can be effective if delivered correctly (which is not often!!). What else should I be working on? Are there any other 'easy' to learn deliveries I can add to my armoury while still very much a new kid on the leg-spin block?

Any help much appreciated guys.

Good Bloke! It sounds like you're not doing too bad at all and the results you got in that game sound like the stuff I dream about! (1) This sounds as though you're unintentionally compensating in some way, maybe because you're bowling I'm assuming at the off-stump there's an instinctive tendency to hold back somehow so that the ball goes straight and has a chance of hitting the stumps? Where as with you leg side pitching ball you're really ripping it because you want it to turn and hit the stumps and therefore you're giving it your full committment? With regards the ball on the leg side, there are loads of players that like the ball on the legside and they'll track it in and deal with it quite easily, I think Macca might have some suggestions with regards what to do with this, I'm not sure but if you can vary the bounce and still retain the same spin you'll give yourself more scope to take wickets?

(2) Not sure about the ethical aspects of being on this thread and mentioning *inge* S*****g? : ) But yeah eventually it makes sense to learn the Wrong Un. I'm assuming you've looked at the link here below at my Blog and read about the Wrong un/Googly Syndrome? It's for real and it's something you need to be aware of otherwise you'll end up like me! My advice before you try the Wrong Un is addressed next.

(3) The easy learn ball is the Top - Spinner and it is such a good ball and it's the next step on the 'Round the loop' theory. I'd focus on this next and keep an eye on your Leg Break and see if it has any impact on that. You might then find your Leg Break suddenly takes on new attributes e.g. it may turn less but dip more when you bowl a ball that is somewhere in between your Leg Break and your Top Spinner? So go for the Top Spinner next and learn to get that ball dipping.

I noticed that you derive your spin off the fingers. How's your grip - is it loose and do you start with the cocked wrist and then open and straighten the hand as you release?

 

[Ripping-LegBreak]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hey guys, i just came back from cricket training for the first time in a year, I was surprised to see i was hitting a consistent length and line around middle and offstump but there was one problem which confused me. I was giving it a rip like i always did, last season. But the ball didin't turn, I had my follow through, pivot all going right but the ball just went straight on. Anyone else had this kind of problem with losing their turn on the first day back to training ? Is this just a temporary problem. I know i wasen't bowling topspinners because i have always concentrated on the legbreak for the past 2 yrs of bowling legspin. So if someone can tell me why this has happened and tell me if this is just a temporary problem which will be sorted out by it self. I am left with a sore third finger without the satisfaction of the generation of spin being observed..

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hey guys

I've been reading this thread with real interest.


(1) It seems that the more 'off side' my deliveries the less turn I get. If I stray down the leg side I can get quite a lot of turn (i.e. spinning from a foot outside leg to hit middle) but if I bowl the same delivery outside off the turn is minimal. The temptation is to bowl a leg-side line but this proves pretty easy to hit. Is this something others have experienced - any tips for why this might be happening?

(2) I am nowhere near developing a googly so I occasionally throw in the occasional orthodox off spin ball as a variation. Is this 'cheating'? Should I bite the bullet and work on a googly or is it OK to vary off/leg spin in this way?

(3) My only variation is a backspinning delivery - where my palm faces the batsman and I let the ball run along my fingers spinning it backwards in the delivery. The result is a flatter ball with less bounce and can be effective if delivered correctly (which is not often!!). What else should I be working on? Are there any other 'easy' to learn deliveries I can add to my armoury while still very much a new kid on the leg-spin block?

Any help much appreciated guys.

I know several bowlers or part time bowlers/ batsmen who have re-invented themselves as legspinners around my local area over the years successfully. Most young blokes into cricket here get at least shown how to bowl a legbreak, but other than that these would be mainly pretty much complete beginners to start with, but a lot of cricket under their belts, which helps enormously of course.

You sound like you have got some control over line and length, but it is not as easy to do with legspin as with simple seam bowling is it?

I will have a go at answering your questions but I am by no means an expert so dont take this as gospel.

(1) The more you are straying down the leg the more side-on you are becoming this helps spin and importantly drift, but this is a hard line to bowl. You could call this the Warne line and as a stock line it is usually reserved for a big fast accurate spinner,they are rare. Warne bowled an off stump line until Bobby Simpson changed it to leg stump and it is a bit like the chicken and the egg ,he was a big spinner who needed to bowl this line and soon as he did Simpson noted his spin and drift grew even more because he had to get more side-on to bowl it. Your observation gives a clue how to get more spin without straying too much down the legside except occasionally on purpose.

(2) Well as a running joke they are all chuckers, but you can get away with that style, it only works against weak batsmen as a rule. I wouldn't worry about the googly too much at all yet. Legbreak, topspinner and a straight one should do you a couple of seasons in the match situation. Pretend and let it be well known you have a googly of course, and you may get a small one accidently by reaching too far for the topspinner. If you get any sort of offbreak in a game in this way, play this up to everyone on both teams and the umpires as your wrongun, if it takes a wicket the job is done and your reputation as wrongun bowler is born without you having to go to the trouble and learning how to bowl it! See how devious you become as a legspinner. You have to , so much is stacked against you.

(3) Probably the easiest variation is this one you describe, used by Mc Cool, Holland and Warne. In itself this ball is completely harmless and if you bowled it as a stock ball you would be murdered it is only when it is added occassionally to the leg- break- topspinner mixture that it becomes deadly.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

As Macca has said above (I'm not knowledgable on this) it could be because the wickets are still green and damp and haven't been rolled much yet? Or have you been practicing Wrong Un's too much lately?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

My young blokes indoor coach and captain want him to bowl leg stump or even outside as he is getting way too much turn. One ball he bowled last night looked like it pitched outside the wide leg mark and beat the bat passing the off wide mark. But the ump allowed that one but pinged him for a wide on one that looked legit. Maybe the turn impressed him and he payed it on that alone. It certainly elicited a few gasps from those that haven't seen him bowl before.

When he started the indoor season he was locked on to topspinner and was getting them with drop and bounce but all the work on his leggie and backspinner have got him really turning it indoors now. He has learnt the lesson that line has to vary according to how much spin you are getting.

His normal modus operandi outdoors in a game is middle and off line, my preference for him to stray on the off and the full . Legbreaks and topspinners with small but fast turn. Not really trying to clean bowl the batsman every ball.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What do we all reckon to having periods when you don't practice for a good few days? I've said before that if you get frustrated with your bowling and you seem to be in a rut there might be some value in taking a break so that you come back to it with a slightly different approach.

I bowled exceptionally bad on Sunday. It maybe that I bowled a solid three hours in two stints on Saturday and I may have just been knackered or didn't have a warm up before bowling? But Since Sunday I've virtually not been near a ball and then tonight I picked up a ball while I was watching England taking apart the Windies and was flicking it while I was watching the tele. Then I noticed that I was holding the ball slightly differently with an exaggerated emphasis on the 3rd and fourth finger with the up fingers almost not touching the ball and it seemed to be flicking really well.

So I've just been outside and thrown the ball over a shortish distance and really got it to turn big with a big flick and it felt really promising. I also seemed to be bowling my Flippers really fast as well and yet I'm Ill (Got a crappy cold). I've potentially got a game on Saturday but I don't know if I'm up for it with this cold and that's after waiting so long to get a game. There's no justice is there!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

How quickly has your son come on with his bowling, what was he like say 2 years ago and what's been the key to his success?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hey guys, i just came back from cricket training for the first time in a year, I was surprised to see i was hitting a consistent length and line around middle and offstump but there was one problem which confused me. I was giving it a rip like i always did, last season. But the ball didin't turn, I had my follow through, pivot all going right but the ball just went straight on. Anyone else had this kind of problem with losing their turn on the first day back to training ? Is this just a temporary problem. I know i wasen't bowling topspinners because i have always concentrated on the legbreak for the past 2 yrs of bowling legspin. So if someone can tell me why this has happened and tell me if this is just a temporary problem which will be sorted out by it self. I am left with a sore third finger without the satisfaction of the generation of spin being observed..

Anything to do with the surface. Any other spinners doing it. Usually if it behaves like a topspinner it is. Legspinner should turn on most surfaces but not all and that is where introducing some backspin might help.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

How quickly has your son come on with his bowling, what was he like say 2 years ago and what's been the key to his success?

He started young and as soon as he could bowl overarm he was bowling legbreaks and doing a perfect mimic of Warne, but has developed his own style.

He also started playing in an older age group with the full size ball and pitch very early, which you can do here if you like but is not totally reccomended, but lots of kids do. He has always been commented on for his legspin all along really.

As he is only 11 sometimes I even things up and he bowls to me over say 18 yards with a smaller cricket ball and a bigger wicket he really makes a fool of me especially his wrongun, which he only bowls very occassionaly.

 

[Ripping-LegBreak]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yes, A couple of guys who were offspinners got their offies to turn, And I bowled one googly out of many legbreaks, and my googly turned very slightly to the right. But i had no luck with my legbreak, I was doing everything right with the seam pointing to slips and bowling with effort. There is one slight difference i made, i started to hold the ball more in the fingers than the wrist, as last season i just gave it a wrist flick with the ball in the palm, Now by using my third finger more,Could it be it has altered my wrist position slightly into being more straight?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

My 7 year old (Joe) bowls small leg breaks which I think he just does naturally with no real intention, just the fact that he uses 2 fingers up 2 down it just comes out of the hand with the ball spinning in the right direction. For the moment I'm more interested in him being accurate with his line and length and varying the speed of the delivery and flighting the ball. Which he is doing seemingly aware of the fact that it's this that gets him his wickets more than the fact that the ball turns. When he practices with me he often bowls the ball directly at the stumps but then as it hits the deck it turns and spins away to the off-side to miss the stumps which really p****s him off.

Do you think I should stick to this approach and not emphasise the need to spin the ball and let him arrive at that decision on his own, because surely at some point he's going to realise the potential to use the spin or see that people are edging it and it's being caught off of the spinning ball? What do you reckon?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

There's definitely potential for the slight change you've made to make some difference. Did you watch the cricket tonight on C5. They showed a close up of Swanns 2 balls that he took 2 consecutive wickets with. One was the arm ball and the other spun away towards Leg side, but you could hardly see any difference in the hand/fingers the only difference was in the flight of the ball. The arm ball had a scrambled seam and the Off-spinner had perfectly rotating seam albeit slow, but it still turned. The subtleties of the release were hardly discernable so your big change in grip might be having a big affect on your delivery?

 

[mr bojangles]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

(1) The more you are straying down the leg the more side-on you are becoming this helps spin and importantly drift, but this is a hard line to bowl.

(2) Legbreak, topspinner and a straight one should do you a couple of seasons in the match situation.

(3) Probably the easiest variation is this one you describe, used by Mc Cool, Holland and Warne. In itself this ball is completely harmless and if you bowled it as a stock ball you would be murdered it is only when it is added occassionally to the leg- break- topspinner mixture that it becomes deadly.

Thanks for this advice - really appreciated. In particular the answer to (1) is very interesting. As I understand your answer, the more side-on I am at delivery, the more spin is likely to be generated. But ... the more side on I am the more likely I am to shoot the ball down leg side. Whether I am side-on or front-on at delivery is something I hadn't thought about before but I think you're right - having been out in the garden chucking a few balls around I can see that the more side-on I position myself the harder it is to keep an off-stump line. Something to practice!!!

On your second point I currently only have 3 deliveries - the legspinner, the backspinner and the orthodox offspinner. I don't have a delivery with topspin but I assume that this would be the same as the legspinner but with my wrist twisted further round - i.e. with the back of my hand facing the off side at delivery. Having tried this with a training ball it seems to work in terms of the spin but is highly erratic in terms of line and length - it's a real 'close your eyes and hope' delivery. Something else to practice!!

Is the 'straight one' just a ball without any spin - if so how do you deliver it? My default would be to use the same action as an offspinner arm ball but this would presumably be very easy to spot. It may sound stupid but I can't bowl as 'straight one' using a legspin wrist position at delivery - any tips?

Anyway - I'm playing later this afternoon. I'll stick to my three deliveries for the time being and let you know how I get on.

 

[Ripping-LegBreak]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Could be true because before i was forcing the ball out of the hand which prompted greater potential for the ball to turn now it seems a nice, gentle flick out of the hand, nice and easy. I think i should go back to my old method by uncocking a stiffly cocked wrist at point of delivery which gave the ball alot of momentum. . The reason i changed was because my new grip has made the googly easier to bowl and easier for me to control deliveries too.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

With regards the direction/aim I've always been taught that your leading arm and front pivot foot on landing should be directed at the target. So I suppose that once you're comfortable with the side on action these aspects might become the point of focus? I don't know what the others feel about this aspect of directing the ball down the off or leg-side?

With regards the top-spinner it as you say a case of rotating the wrist so that at the point of release it looks like this to the batsman - Legspin bowling: The Top Spinner Needless to say any new variation is going to require some work to get going but I'd also suggest that as you learn it you don't neglect your Leg Break and keep throwing these as well as the new variation that you're working on and this is especially true when it comes to the Wrong un. But for the moment stick with the Top Spinner as your next target.

A straight ball as a tactic is something I've never considered, not sure of it's potential and probably wouldn't fit in with my bowling as it's not particularly fast. A straight ball with back-spin 'Slider and Flipper' obviously have potential as variations, but you've already got a backspinning delivery that sounds like a slider - how does that go - does it deviate off it's line or does it go straight on?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yes, A couple of guys who were offspinners got their offies to turn, And I bowled one googly out of many legbreaks, and my googly turned very slightly to the right. But i had no luck with my legbreak, I was doing everything right with the seam pointing to slips and bowling with effort. There is one slight difference i made, i started to hold the ball more in the fingers than the wrist, as last season i just gave it a wrist flick with the ball in the palm, Now by using my third finger more,Could it be it has altered my wrist position slightly into being more straight?

You have done well coming back from a long lay off and getting your line and length straight away. That is a good sign. Maybe it is your new grip causing the problem which sounds like an improvement on the more palm grip you had.

Sometimes if you are really in full flight as a bowler , and your topspinner and legbreak are close anyway , it is hard for the you, the bowler ,to tell if your wrist is aligned properly.

Another legspinner or a coach might be able to observe you and help. You could film yourself ? Do some work in front of a mirror.

Maybe you could try exaggerating your release by bowling close against a wall and really forcing that " traffic cop " finish for the legbreak. The wall never lies and if you are releasing topspinners at it they will come straight back at 90 degrees.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

My 7 year old (Joe) bowls small leg breaks which I think he just does naturally with no real intention, just the fact that he uses 2 fingers up 2 down it just comes out of the hand with the ball spinning in the right direction. For the moment I'm more interested in him being accurate with his line and length and varying the speed of the delivery and flighting the ball. Which he is doing seemingly aware of the fact that it's this that gets him his wickets more than the fact that the ball turns. When he practices with me he often bowls the ball directly at the stumps but then as it hits the deck it turns and spins away to the off-side to miss the stumps which really p****s him off.

Do you think I should stick to this approach and not emphasise the need to spin the ball and let him arrive at that decision on his own, because surely at some point he's going to realise the potential to use the spin or see that people are edging it and it's being caught off of the spinning ball? What do you reckon?

Yeah I know what you mean. At first they cant really spin it much anyway, most of them more or less roll it rather than spin it and the ones I have seen who do spin it hard can get some real drift and spin but are usually wildly inaccurate. But those early years you can work on their overall action and accuracy more than the actual spinning but then relatively early on maybe 2-3 years? I reckon they should be encouraged to really try and spin it, almost to the expense of everything else whilst trying to maintain the accuracy, which is hard.

My kid went through the same thing about not understanding that the gameplan isn't neccessarily hitting the stumps every delivery and practising to hit the stumps from outside leg too much can cause you to bowl a bad line. Mostly they need to keep it more off stump with 5 fielders on that side. They will still bowl plenty of kids, sometimes even round their legs from balls pitched down legside by accident, or as they get better on purpose, all sorts of amazing things happen in junior cricket. But there isn't much justice for the bowlers. The best guide I reckon is their economy rate rather than wickets taken.

Around here , the first few years are rudimentary and the emphasis is on having fun and giving everyone a go and results dont matter, but quite soon it gets competitive and is played hard. What always amazes me is how good so many kids get at their cricket by about aged 12 or so. Some of them you see are so talented and knowledgable , often allrounders, it makes you think the cricket culture must be still strong out there.