Pakistan in Australia

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

We will watch Shoaib Malik's fortunes for the remainder of the summer with interest!

Ha! I didn't see any evidence of major "cannons" bulging out, nor would it make any difference. I'm no fashion cop but with the other players wearing sleeves he stood out, as he tends to do often. I just reckon those things can look a bit dicky and it's probably intended for when they're working out, though I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Healy mentioned in an interview after the game that the weather freshened up late, but again I don't think that really matters.

Perhaps you should save your naked men stories for the other forums you subscibe to, LtD!!!

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

Who cares about Watson, let him be a total ****er, its better to focus on a great player and a great person, Cameron White, what a superstar. The perfect innings and he will shine now he has finally been given a chance to bat for more than 5 overs and with another batsman still at the crease and more to come behind him

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

Who cares about Watson, let him be a total ****er, its better to focus on a great player and a great person, Cameron White, what a superstar. The perfect innings and he will shine now he has finally been given a chance to bat for more than 5 overs and with another batsman still at the crease and more to come behind him

At least one Victorian did something right. The other two put Australia behind the 8 ball at the teams worst ground. 274 is a good score, and I can't stand seeing Siddle (a Test bowler, with bad average, bad economy rate and bad strike rate for 12 matches) out there frustrating himself because everyone hammers him everywhere. I'm starting to doubt that he is 'unlucky'. Nobody can get so many edges that go straight to the ground, over the top or through the slip cordon. It can't be coincidental, he just can't get wickets, he goes for expensive overs. I've seen over the years fully fledged Australian bowlers of many years and games get dropped for having shorter runs of bad form. Then McKay is the same, never has he looked comfortable playing for Australia in any form. If Victoria is doing so well domestically, why do they keep offering up duds? Just my opinion, of course, but it's frustrating me.

Well done White.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

At least one Victorian did something right. The other two put Australia behind the 8 ball at the teams worst ground. 274 is a good score, and I can't stand seeing Siddle (a Test bowler, with bad average, bad economy rate and bad strike rate for 12 matches) out there frustrating himself because everyone hammers him everywhere. I'm starting to doubt that he is 'unlucky'. Nobody can get so many edges that go straight to the ground, over the top or through the slip cordon. It can't be coincidental, he just can't get wickets, he goes for expensive overs. I've seen over the years fully fledged Australian bowlers of many years and games get dropped for having shorter runs of bad form. Then McKay is the same, never has he looked comfortable playing for Australia in any form. If Victoria is doing so well domestically, why do they keep offering up duds? Just my opinion, of course, but it's frustrating me.

Well done White.

McKay bowled well, took wickets but got a bit of stick at the end

As for Siddle, well I think more blame would go on Australias no1 spinner who is alot more experienced and got absolutely smashed as well as dropping a bloody sitter off Siddles bowling

Its one thing to say its not just bad luck when edges go wide and the dumb fast bowler at third man lets it get past him for 4, but the amount of dropped catches that Siddle has had off his bowling this season would be quite high

But maybe you should be asking how ****ing poor must be the other domestic teams be if they make them look so good? I dont suppose we could ever offer up someone as good as the QLDer who can bat for a full 20 overs in a T20 and not even make 50

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

McKay bowled well, took wickets but got a bit of stick at the end

As for Siddle, well I think more blame would go on Australias no1 spinner who is alot more experienced and got absolutely smashed as well as dropping a bloody sitter off Siddles bowling

Its one thing to say its not just bad luck when edges go wide and the dumb fast bowler at third man lets it get past him for 4, but the amount of dropped catches that Siddle has had off his bowling this season would be quite high

But maybe you should be asking how ****ing poor must be the other domestic teams be if they make them look so good? I dont suppose we could ever offer up someone as good as the QLDer who can bat for a full 20 overs in a T20 and not even make 50

I really like McKay until he came into the team. Since then he has really let my thoughts on him down. Everything is short and easy to put away. Don't know if it is just pressure or something, but he has really not looked right. Even his action has looked different to what I have seen in the past. 3 wickets is good... until you look at his economy rate. It's lucky Australia were able to chase that down at the Gabba.

Yes the drops are high for Siddle, but that doesn't mean he has been bowling well. For his Test form people say he was unlucky and performed better. I think instead of averaging 60 he would have averaged around 40. He would have a drop or a streaky edge off his bowling, get angry, then wayward overs commenced.

What I was saying with Victoria is that surely you guys are sending the wrong players to the team? White has been the only one since Warne that has impressed me. And yet you have a formidable team domestically. A bit strange.

Hopes has a great T20 record and an even better ODI record. Then again you can't use stats for a player like him. People won't notice him till he's gone. Could have used him tonight with the ball badly, then what happened if Hussey got out just before White? White soon later would get out, Haddin has a problem with getting away at the start of an innings, then we are down to three not so reliable bats. It would have taken only one more wicket and Hopes could have scored 5 runs to win. Happens over and over. The amount of N.O.s with Hussey has proved wins or losses.

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

I really like McKay until he came into the team. Since then he has really let my thoughts on him down. Everything is short and easy to put away. Don't know if it is just pressure or something, but he has really not looked right. Even his action has looked different to what I have seen in the past. 3 wickets is good... until you look at his economy rate. It's lucky Australia were able to chase that down at the Gabba.

Yes the drops are high for Siddle, but that doesn't mean he has been bowling well. For his Test form people say he was unlucky and performed better. I think instead of averaging 60 he would have averaged around 40. He would have a drop or a streaky edge off his bowling, get angry, then wayward overs commenced.

What I was saying with Victoria is that surely you guys are sending the wrong players to the team? White has been the only one since Warne that has impressed me. And yet you have a formidable team domestically. A bit strange.

Hopes has a great T20 record and an even better ODI record. Then again you can't use stats for a player like him. People won't notice him till he's gone. Could have used him tonight with the ball badly, then what happened if Hussey got out just before White? White soon later would get out, Haddin has a problem with getting away at the start of an innings, then we are down to three not so reliable bats. It would have taken only one more wicket and Hopes could have scored 5 runs to win. Happens over and over. The amount of N.O.s with Hussey has proved wins or losses.

Siddles average was 43 for the summer so you admit he was unlucky now

As for McKay, judging him totally on 3 ODI matches, not close together when he has taken 6 wickets? I have always maintained McKay is often expensive, yet he takes wickets, bit like Lee in that regard, I also wonder about Pontings captaincy of 2 over spells all the time, how is he supposed to settle into a rythym? But he will only get better, started off slowly for Victoria yet always took wickets, the low economy rate games with a bag of wickets will start coming if they show faith and they probably will. When Johnson returns they will likely send Siddle off for a rest

As for Hopes, maybe, but a player who offers a little bit of everything will always be droppable, he bowls little medium pacers and if he gets spanked like he did against England, then Australia is ****ed, a true strike pace bowler is more likely to bounce back and you cant start picking a player at no8 for his batting, Hauritz is more than capable, Johnson will be back even though his bowling isnt very reliable and Siddle and McKay are more than handy tailenders, Australia never would have lost that game once White got to about 90, it was safe from then on

As for Victoria, the key to the success is blokes like Hussey, Rogers, Hodge, McGain, Nannes and Harwood, all players overlooked at International level or given the odd chance here and there then dropped again, hopefully Nannes will be back by the end of the summer in Australian colours

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

Good stuff from the Australians, 270 odd was always going to be an attainable target on a true wicket with a short straight boundary.

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

I think we have both made our points, eddie, so only time will tell what the selectors think.

Good stuff from the Australians, 270 odd was always going to be an attainable target on a true wicket with a short straight boundary.

270 is always a dangerous target. The Gabba is the one ground in Australia that the team struggles at. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember hearing not too long ago that the Test average first innings score there is 310 (compared to the 540 of Adelaide, 420 of Sydney), the lowest in the country for the past ten years and the ODI score is around 220 over this decade.

Plus the Pakistanis have a good bowling line up, and they have more waiting in the wings that could do the job as well.

All it would have taken is White to get out below 20, which is likely, a player can't score a 50 every game, and the Pakistanis would have had them. Look at the rest of the scorecard, not very convincing. Normally in an ODI you are looking for 3 or 4 reasonable scores, not one big one and one notable not out. I guess it doesn't matter how you make the runs though, as long as you get them.

 

[Kram81]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

I mean, FFS, imagine slamming a guy for wearing a sleeveless shirt in Queensland during summer.

Exactly, I wear a singlet out here all summer because it's comfortable when it's **** ing hot, not to be a hero or something..

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

The thing with pointing out the singlet was because he was 'out of uniform'. He wasn't working out at the time, and is innapropriate dress when you come out of the change rooms to shake hands with the opposition, especially when everyone else is dressed in either playing garment or representative shirt. Just pointing out the obvious difference he was who stood out among the team.

Even then, though, it's not something that should be discussed afterwards... it is a shirt after all.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

I think we have both made our points, eddie, so only time will tell what the selectors think.



270 is always a dangerous target. The Gabba is the one ground in Australia that the team struggles at. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember hearing not too long ago that the Test average first innings score there is 310 (compared to the 540 of Adelaide, 420 of Sydney), the lowest in the country for the past ten years and the ODI score is around 220 over this decade.

Plus the Pakistanis have a good bowling line up, and they have more waiting in the wings that could do the job as well.

All it would have taken is White to get out below 20, which is likely, a player can't score a 50 every game, and the Pakistanis would have had them. Look at the rest of the scorecard, not very convincing. Normally in an ODI you are looking for 3 or 4 reasonable scores, not one big one and one notable not out. I guess it doesn't matter how you make the runs though, as long as you get them.

Sure, I agree, it is a dangerous target, but as Bill Lawry said, it was probably only par for the wicket. It had great carry and pace and Pakistan had two spinners who were always going to be relatively ineffective on that surface.

The only danger was if Pakistan came out and ripped us to shreds under lights because the ball always decks around more in that first 15 over period under lights at the Gabba. Back in 04/05 the Windies went through us at the Gabba under similar circumstances but rain washed the game out.

Once we got through that 15 over period with only two down then you felt it was 50/50.

A few years back 270 would be a winning taret 80% of the time, but these days I reckon it is only par when you consider the powerplays. Taking the powerplay late in the innings allows teams to go all out with the field up.

Teams batting second will regularly keep wickets in hand and pace the target to allow themselves to run it down with the powerplay.

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

Exactly, I wear a singlet out here all summer because it's comfortable when it's **** ing hot, not to be a hero or something..

As Boris said, time & place, nuff said.

At least one Victorian did something right. The other two put Australia behind the 8 ball at the teams worst ground. 274 is a good score, and I can't stand seeing Siddle (a Test bowler, with bad average, bad economy rate and bad strike rate for 12 matches) out there frustrating himself because everyone hammers him everywhere. I'm starting to doubt that he is 'unlucky'. Nobody can get so many edges that go straight to the ground, over the top or through the slip cordon. It can't be coincidental, he just can't get wickets, he goes for expensive overs. I've seen over the years fully fledged Australian bowlers of many years and games get dropped for having shorter runs of bad form. Then McKay is the same, never has he looked comfortable playing for Australia in any form. If Victoria is doing so well domestically, why do they keep offering up duds? Just my opinion, of course, but it's frustrating me.

... What I was saying with Victoria is that surely you guys are sending the wrong players to the team? White has been the only one since Warne that has impressed me. And yet you have a formidable team domestically. A bit strange.

I won't disagree with you outright. Eddie has addressed your comments adequately.

Victoria aren't that "formidable", but you can't deny that in the end it helps when your best players continually don't get picked to play for Australia. Siddle, and and to a lesser extent, McKay have not been central to our bowling success. More like Harwood, Nannes, McDonald & McGain, as Eddie says, and those who have come in to fill spots. The Vics have been better since the second-string players stepped up in the past few years.

I would maintain Siddle was unlucky during the Tests. It's a different game now. He has to show he's deserving of a spot or he will become dispensible. (Nice & quick tonight!)
McKay hasn't played much, and has never been an "outstanding" player anyhow. I ask you, who else is banging the door down around the country anyway? Yes, there are others they could try, but their qualifications don't stand out either.

Ours are written off as "duds" much more readily due to the immediate bias they are subjected to from intolerant Northern state supporters. These perecptions are very subjective.

By the way, you forgot Mick Lewis.

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

Very quiet on this thread at the moment. I can only assume the blindfolds are out since no-one can bear to see Victorians doing well.
Please, allow me to indulge for once ... !

 

[eddiesmith]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

All 5 wickets have been thanks to the Victorians who apparently do nothing for the team

Things are going so well for the Victorians this weekend they may as well give White a bowl

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

I take back my words on the bowling attack... for now. A one off thing isn't going to change my opinion against a team that has a reputation for random collapses. Even then the bowling was helped out by some very good fielding in portions and some bad shot selection.

You would have to be naive to think this bowling attack is the one of the future. I see no shining lights there.

 

[gandalf]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

You would have to be naive to think this bowling attack is the one of the future. I see no shining lights there.

Bollinger? I agree though that Siddle, McKay and Hauritz aren't much to be excited about.

 

[Sober Symonds]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

You would have to be naive to think this bowling attack is the one of the future. I see no shining lights there.

The future? Since when have you had an eye on that? With all due respect, your desired line-up would be Lee, Clark, Johnson, Bracken and Hopes.

 

[gandalf]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

In the absense of a Pakistan selection thread...

I'm a bit confused as to why Imran Farhat has been left out so far. I really don't see why Kamran Akmal needs to be opening. I would suggest drop Umar Akmal (his last dismissal was an embarrasment and one which I'm not sure he will recover from this series) - put Farhat and Butt at 1 and 2 and bring Kamran down to 5 or 6

 

[Boris]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

Bollinger? I agree though that Siddle, McKay and Hauritz aren't much to be excited about.

Bollinger, yes, definitely. Hauritz I think will prove to be a little more useful come his retirement then we all thought he would be. Not going to be a great, but definitely good enough to keep his spot for a number of years. Bollinger we will see quite a bit more of.

The future? Since when have you had an eye on that? With all due respect, your desired line-up would be Lee, Clark, Johnson, Bracken and Hopes.

I would have Johnson, Lee and Bracken, but since those three aren't going to be fit at the same time and Bracken is under doubt as to being able to continue, I would put Bollinger in there. That way we have Johnson and Bollinger for a number of years and then Lee (only 4 years older than Bollinger) for the immediate plan because you know what your greatest ODI bowler almost ever is going to give you.

Lee would be played for certain if he was fit with this line up, and dare I say so would Bracken. You know something isn't quite right with your line up when you have your 'oldies' easily being able to outperform the youngsters you expect to 'blow everyone away with some stunning performances'. Even with the win tonight I haven't seen much in the way of youthful vibrance shining through.

 

[Caesar]

Re: Pakistan in Australia

Umar Akmal is quality, just because he hasn't fired in the first two games doesn't mean he should be dropped. He was their best bat in the Test series, playing with a limited-overs style.