Subbies 2011/12

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westland said:
It's the players that spill the beans.This season, within weeks of a club with which I am connected having appointed a paid player, I was asked by members of an another club whether it was true Joe Blow was being paid $X's. The figure quoted was spot on. The fact the existing system lacks transparency means the only way you can bring the matter to the attention of the authorities is by dobbing in the offending club. That is unAustralian and you may risk being 'run out of town'. I have no intention of being a martyr!
I want a system that is transparent and, that over time, should provide an evening- out of the competition.
The final sentence of your first post on this subject reads 'And the massive floggings will continue across all grades'. It is the present untransparent system that is the root cause of this unsatisfactory state of affairs.
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I think you have added "plenty" to what has been, for the most part, a good discussion, both for an against.

I am yet to run into a player, both team mate and opponent who has "gobbed off" about the bucks he was on. And I think for the most part, the figures bandied about are highly inflated.

What are your thoughts on the two tier competition that was origin of these posts?

As far as the Lions being the biggest "flouters" is concerned, I just hope that is not true. Melton have won just about everything in the comp. over the last 4 years and surely that "title" deserves to be retained by the big three in the South/East on the basis of nearly 40 years of quality "flouting."
 
I have definitely already said all I wish in respect to the player points system.
If there is a history of serial underperformance by a number of clubs it makes sense to consider a two tier competition. I notice from previous posts some suggestions on composition have been put forward. It will not surprise that I would like it to operate under the player points system and a promotion relegation system. That is, a similar model to the VTCA's. I throw in the thought that it may become an easier 'sell' if the annual dividend is no more. What is there to attract the serial underperformers from considering staying in the subbies if no more money is forthcoming when, by contrast, the VTCA may offer a model better suited to their needs? Your thoughts please.
We live in challenging times for local community cricket but, sadly, I don't think CV has the resources to meet them and it will be left entirely to each club to deal with them as it sees fit.
 
Piston Broke said:
No scores from Werribee v Willy,anyone know what happened?
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Both teams agreed prior to the start of day 2 to not play on with the extreme heat as the result had already been decided and neither side had a chance of making finals. As it turned out however, if Werribee were able to reverse the outright they would have been only 1 point out of the finals. Could come back to bite them on the rear.
 
Surprising YWL,would have thought there was a lot of cricket to be played in that game especially given the state of the wicket at Chirnside Park?
Would that be the 1st time the heat rule's been invoked beside Black Saturday?
 
Piston Broke said:
Surprising YWL,would have thought there was a lot of cricket to be played in that game especially given the state of the wicket at Chirnside Park?
Would that be the 1st time the heat rule's been invoked beside Black Saturday?
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Yes Piston that is correct, and it wasn't that hot. Incredible really that 22 blokes train for 6 months and then don't want to play!
 
B&G OCC said:
Yes Piston that is correct, and it wasn't that hot. Incredible really that 22 blokes train for 6 months and then don't want to play!
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I suppose, now the precedent has been set by these clubs, they would not object if their curators down tools on hot days. It was bloody hot on Friday too. I'll bet there would have been a hue and cry by these mamby pambies if they had fronted up Sat only to be told the pitch had not been prepared due the curator observing the heat rule on Friday! There are Council rules too re heat and, if curators were to strictly observe them, cricketers would either have to make the pitch themselves at times or miss a day's cricket. Times have changed guys -- nowadays, don't give Councils reason to withdraw from pitch preparation. Many already have. The Yarraville boys tell me they have to fork out more than $12k per season in curating fees plus have to fuel, maintain and, when required, replace the machinery. Sunshine are also fully resposible for pitch preparation and you don't need me to tell you where these two clubs are on the ladder.
 
Piston Broke said:
Surprising YWL,would have thought there was a lot of cricket to be played in that game especially given the state of the wicket at Chirnside Park?
Would that be the 1st time the heat rule's been invoked beside Black Saturday?
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i think it had to do alot with the wicket and surrounds........council decided to lay new grass around the square for footy season in turn there was a lot of soft wet sand lying around...wicket was a touch damp too due to the works.....what i was told so dont quote me on it!!!........isnt the 1st time in that area cricket has been put back by footy.......
 
weapons05/06 said:
i think it had to do alot with the wicket and surrounds........council decided to lay new grass around the square for footy season in turn there was a lot of soft wet sand lying around...wicket was a touch damp too due to the works.....what i was told so dont quote me on it!!!........isnt the 1st time in that area cricket has been put back by footy.......
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YWL was in no doubt it was due to both teams agreeing prior to the start of day 2 not to play due to extreme heat. I guess what really counts is what the umpires wrote in their reports. If I was a member of the subbies executive I would want to read them.
 
westland said:
YWL was in no doubt it was due to both teams agreeing prior to the start of day 2 not to play due to extreme heat. I guess what really counts is what the umpires wrote in their reports. If I was a member of the subbies executive I would want to read them.
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willy 6 werribee 0......who cares what the umpires wrote.......

it wasnt extreme......i would be quite happy to play 80 overs in that......
 
Looks like weather may play a big part in shaping this years final series, quashing the hopes of Coburg and Ivanhoe in the NW group, Broady finding themselves in the right place at the right time. The same goes for Mt Waverley and Brighton in the SE, looks like another Caulfield v Malvern final, just at the opposite end of the finals series.
 
westland said:
YWL was in no doubt it was due to both teams agreeing prior to the start of day 2 not to play due to extreme heat. I guess what really counts is what the umpires wrote in their reports. If I was a member of the subbies executive I would want to read them.
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What makes you think the umpires tell the truth or write what actually happened? Like most paperwork wouldn't you write what you think they want to hear?
 
Subbies for ever said:
What makes you think the umpires tell the truth or write what actually happened? Like most paperwork wouldn't you write what you think they want to hear?[/quote
]I think umpires tell the truth because they are decent honest people providing a vital service to the game. What you have said is a terrible slur on their integrity. I hope on reflection you will offer a retraction.
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westland said:
I have definitely already said all I wish in respect to the player points system.
If there is a history of serial underperformance by a number of clubs it makes sense to consider a two tier competition. I notice from previous posts some suggestions on composition have been put forward. It will not surprise that I would like it to operate under the player points system and a promotion relegation system. That is, a similar model to the VTCA's. I throw in the thought that it may become an easier 'sell' if the annual dividend is no more. What is there to attract the serial underperformers from considering staying in the subbies if no more money is forthcoming when, by contrast, the VTCA may offer a model better suited to their needs? Your thoughts please.
We live in challenging times for local community cricket but, sadly, I don't think CV has the resources to meet them and it will be left entirely to each club to deal with them as it sees fit.
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Don't be fooled, CV have plenty of dough. They wanted the Subbies grant gone as they thought their income was going to reduce significantly, however, got some sizeable chunks in which has not seen a drop in income. Need to get rid of some of the 'Fat Cats' who do nothing except draw funds from this pool.
 
westland said:
YWL was in no doubt it was due to both teams agreeing prior to the start of day 2 not to play due to extreme heat. I guess what really counts is what the umpires wrote in their reports. If I was a member of the subbies executive I would want to read them.
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I've since been told that the wicket also had a lot to do with it also. Still suprising to me that there wasn't more cricket played.
 
I hope the 'sizeable chunks' will result in CV giving favourable consideration to the subbies recent submission to it in respect to the phasing out of the grant. One of my mates says CV is full of 'refugees from the classroom' -- ie. ex school teachers are over-represented in the composition of CV's staff.
 
Well finals are upon us and the first week provides the "big one". Malvern have been spruiking for weeks how they can't wait to get their hands on Caulfield, based on their ongoing success against them over a few years, particularly in finals.

Be careful what you wish for, Roosters, because you are about to get "your arses" handed to you. Caulfield has added four quality players to last years line up.

I think you are highly optiministic if you think their last ball loss in the T20 final shows they still can't win the big ones. Cross didn't play in that game, and over the two day format, the gulf in class will be evident. I can't see that there will be any major upsets over both groups.
 
No
short & wide said:
Well finals are upon us and the first week provides the "big one". Malvern have been spruiking for weeks how they can't wait to get their hands on Caulfield, based on their ongoing success against them over a few years, particularly in finals.

Be careful what you wish for, Roosters, because you are about to get "your arses" handed to you. Caulfield has added four quality players to last years line up.

I think you are highly optiministic if you think their last ball loss in the T20 final shows they still can't win the big ones. Cross didn't play in that game, and over the two day format, the gulf in class will be evident. I can't see that there will be any major upsets over both groups.
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No wins to the Roosters over the top 3. Bowling is good, however, their batting remains brittle. If the Caulfield 1st XI plays, they beat them comfortably!
 
Super Saint said:
Don't be fooled, CV have plenty of dough. They wanted the Subbies grant gone as they thought their income was going to reduce significantly, however, got some sizeable chunks in which has not seen a drop in income. Need to get rid of some of the 'Fat Cats' who do nothing except draw funds from this pool.
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Heard that Ken Jacobs has been on the phone to a few of his old board members asking them to rethink their decision, he came out on the weekend stating it was a ludicrous idea and could mean the death of a few subbies clubs. He said they had forgotten where their roots are.
 
Piston Broke said:
How would this go for Division 1?
Altona
Melton
Williamstown
Brighton
Caulfield
Elsternwick
Malvern
Balwyn
Coburg
Kew
Plenty Valley
Box Hill
Oakleigh
Noble Park
Gives you 3 from the West and the East and 4 from the South and the North.
All the remainder go into the 2nd Division.
I've loosely based this mainly on performances over the last decade or so,now for the arguments.
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So here is the Fewster Award for this year. Its shows the anomolies that would occur if you used this award as the basis for the two divisions.
Melton 135.40
Caulfield 128.60
Oakleigh 123.40
Elsternwick 115.40
Kew 113.40
Plenty Valley 107.00
Balwyn 103.00
Brighton 98.80
Malvern 95.60
Altona 94.80
Bayswater 85.60
Werribee 85.40
Box Hill 84.80
Mt Waverley 81.60
Brunswick 76.60
Ivanhoe 75.00
Williamstown 65.40
Coburg 64.00
Noble Park 61.80
Yarraville 61.60
Croydon 60.20
Preston 58.60
Broadmeadows 56.40
Kingston Saints 50.40
Endeavour Hills 43.80
Moorabbin 41.40
Ormond 29.40
Sunshine 19.20
For instance PB has Coburg and Noble Park in his first division but they both appear in the last dozen on this years chart. Broadmeadows make the final six in North/West but finish sixth last in the table. And who would really compare Preston to Croydon? So I think this shows just how hard a two division table would be to draw up. The one positive is that Melton, Caulfield, Oakleigh and Kew all show that having a good club usually results in a good first eleven performance.
 
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