The Serious Discussion Thread.

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Grier said:
When will they learn?
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The hard way only and that applies to both Trump's cronies and all his voters but it's to be feared that subsequent generations will have to clean up after them. And then yesterday will indeed go down in history but in a different way than Trump believes.
 
Trump said God had saved him from an assassin's bullet for him to save America. 🙄

Trump chants "Drill baby, drill" with his crowd joining in. That will allow Global Warming to rise faster with other Global leaders joining in no doubt following the agenda of self interest and stuff the planet. If the US ignores GW, that legacy will certainly affect future generations as you said Thomas. History will look darkly at the stupidity of Trump, the worst ever Potus.
We've already passed the 1.5C rise in GW since pre industrial times. Twice the amount of Co2 in the atmosphere since pre-industrial too.
"Burn baby, burn".... 🔥 ... look at LA.

I guess it makes sense that the wealthiest of peoples are the most selfish.
 
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Grier said:
"Burn baby, burn".... 🔥 ... look at LA.

I guess it makes sense that the wealthiest of peoples are the most selfish.
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a) Another excellent pun and applicable not only to LA but to the whole planet.

b) So true that wealth is of enormous importance to people and, thus, to societies. Once accumulated, the odds are poor that people let their property go again, no matter what consequences this attitude would entail. If we look at the developing countries, we can watch the same upward social mobility among the middle classes followed by a status anxiety as described by Alain de Button in his same-titled book. This observation is actually a platitude since our national poet Goethe didn't think highly of people's foresight as early as in the 19th century and, even earlier, Madame Pompadour had expressed the same: „Après nous le déluge!“. Peter Sloterdijk , a philosopher who I often have trouble understanding, suspects that: "The carefree, the careless, the uninhibited of today celebrate no party between St. Moritz, Dubai and Moscow at which the Marquise's winged word would not be in the air." They know only too well that there's no such thing as a free lunch. But this the-devil-may-care attitude prevails for it seems to be inherent in the human race. A bridge will only be crossed when they get to it.

It is too bad that climate protection is being voted against all over Europe and in the Western World as a whole, and all the densely populated countries will follow suit. The underlying reason is, as you say, peoples' selfishness rooted in the anxiety of the people to lose their status. Trump and right-wing populism embrace this attitude, popularise it, and translate it into day-to-day politics. That's why he's so popular and lots of people hang on his every word.
 
looker-on said:
a) Another excellent pun and applicable not only to LA but to the whole planet.

b) So true that wealth is of enormous importance to people and, thus, to societies. Once accumulated, the odds are poor that people let their property go again, no matter what consequences this attitude would entail. If we look at the developing countries, we can watch the same upward social mobility among the middle classes followed by a status anxiety as described by Alain de Button in his same-titled book. This observation is actually a platitude since our national poet Goethe didn't think highly of people's foresight as early as in the 19th century and, even earlier, Madame Pompadour had expressed the same: „Après nous le déluge!“. Peter Sloterdijk , a philosopher who I often have trouble understanding, suspects that: "The carefree, the careless, the uninhibited of today celebrate no party between St. Moritz, Dubai and Moscow at which the Marquise's winged word would not be in the air." They know only too well that there's no such thing as a free lunch. But this the-devil-may-care attitude prevails for it seems to be inherent in the human race. A bridge will only be crossed when they get to it./'
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looker-on said:
It is too bad that climate protection is being voted against all over1Europe and in the Western World as a whole, and all the densely populated countries will follow suit. The underlying reason is, as you say, peoples' selfishness rooted in the anxiety of the people to lose their status. Trump and right-wing populism embrace this attitude, popularise it, and translate it '1into day-to-day politics. That's why he's so popular and lots of people hang on his every word.
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So eloquently said Thomas with a very clear perspective.
Your knowledge of Philosophers is deep. I Kant match you. 😄

I still can't quite understand how most of America's voting population have put their faith in Trump, a mere man with many, many obvious flaws. Still, I guess the USA got what they wanted.
Let's watch how this dark comedy unfolds. Aready there are tensions about and within Trump's cabinet minions. Even speculation he and Musk may. have a spat. Stay tuned. 💔

Also, the Russians are still fighting a gory new type of warfare despite Trump's promise to end it in 24 hours. Buffoons are full of hot air.''
 
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Grier said:
Also, the Russians are still fighting a gory new type of warfare despite Trump's promise to end it in 24 hours. Buffoons are full of hot air.''
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😡 My take is the Kremlin hawkes are putting pressure on mad Vlad to win or end the war going on what he has been quoted. "My Russia is suffering" or words to that effect. He may even be willing to concede some annexed land to avoid bringing more soldiers home in body bags. But does he give a STUFF FOR ALL THE GRIEVING MOTHERS? Not a word since he invaded, that I have read.
 
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Trump has threatened Russia and Ukraine, too presumably, with hi taxes, tariffs and sanctions if Putin refuses to strike a deal to end the war in Ukraine.
"It's time to 'MAKE A DEAL.' NO MORE LIVES SHOULD BE LOST!!!"

Now this I agree with. Well done Trump using your power for something humane and sensible.
 
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President Donald Trump claimed in part two of a televised interview that the nearly three-year-old war between Russia and Ukraine that started when Moscow’s forces kicked off an invasion in 2022 was the fault of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s failure to preemptively capitulate before Russian troops began their attack.

Whatever this bloke says is controversial and rubs somebody up the wrong way. Ever occur to you Mr wannabe dictator, that the Ukranians are a proud people and were prepared to defend their homeland and NOT capitulate to a tyranical aggressor..
 
Richie said:
President Donald Trump claimed in part two of a televised interview that the nearly three-year-old war between Russia and Ukraine that started when Moscow’s forces kicked off an invasion in 2022 was the fault of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s failure to preemptively capitulate before Russian troops began their attack.

Whatever this bloke says is controversial and rubs somebody up the wrong way. Ever occur to you Mr wannabe dictator, that the Ukranians are a proud people and were prepared to defend their homeland and NOT capitulate to a tyranical aggressor..
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He's a nasty blithering idiot with the rubbish that comes out of his mouth.
He even tries to justify leaving WHO saying they mucked up the Covid response. That from a fool who suggested injecting people with disinfectant! He's no genius, he's just so stupid he doesn't know he's stupid.
 
Grier said:
I still can't quite understand how most of America's voting population have put their faith in Trump, a mere man with many, many obvious flaws.
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It is, indeed, beyond a lot of people's grasp, Terry, and not only in the US but in other countries with a growing right-wing populist movement as well. The reasons for this reach from one dominant reason to a combination of several ones. For some people one issue, e.g. immigration, is so significant that it makes every other thought unimportant. Others may not like Trump as a person, but vote for him nonetheless.
As I said in my previous post, there is a lot of anxiety among certain sections of the population that their well-earned but still modest prosperity may be endangered. In their endeavour to make sense of this situation they feel tempted to accept a simple explanation offered in the past and also today by politicians that immigrants will take away their jobs. This tale has often been told but it hasn't lost its appeal. In the US it's predominantly the white male population without a college degree living in rural areas of the fly-over states who find this scapegoating approach convincing. Those men see themselves as losers who can't feed a family any more and suffer from a lack of dignity and self-respect. They argue that life in the old days was better and more normal. Gas was cheap, their wages were above average, there were no gender politics, men could be men, gun laws were lax, life was affordable and the environment didn't send a bill, environmental protection was unknown, people were devout believers and ardent church-goers for whom abortion was no issue. All that had allegedly been called into question by a new generation of educated politicians and scientists living in the big cities and opening the borders for immigrants.
And then this fair-haired guy came along who was a self-made billionaire, talked and behaved like their buddies in the local diner, didn't mince his words, and keeps telling them that they were right and the establishment was wrong. It was all hoaxes and fakes and he promised them cowboy-like leadership which would include thumping his fist on the table whenever necessary. They didn't take offence that he had no manners and pulled out of contracts. For them, Trump is authentic. His voters weren't looking for competence, professionalism, and erudite language used by a black woman who promised that she knew those chauvinistic guys like Trump inside out and would show them up, but for a proven money- and deal maker who could cope with the wicked dictators of the world. Economic success was ascribed to Trump, economic problems, however, to Biden/Harris.
 
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looker-on said:
e.g. immigration, is so significant that it makes every other thought unimportant.
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Nail on the head Thomas. The current socialist govt here has an open door immigration policy with hundreds of thousand pouring into our country since they came to power. I think they almost doubled the previous administration figures. Betting too a good percentage would not be skilled professionals. The Opposition Liberals will seal govt at the upcoming election if they cut a swathe thru immigration.
 
Richie said:
Partly, did he not inherit much of his wealth from his fathers real estate business.
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Yes, he did but they are convinced that he also made enough money himself which allows him to be independent. What they appreciate most is that he doesn't want to get paid as POTUS which is in contrast to other presidents, Obama in particular but it also applies to Clinton. He did not get rich because he'd been president as those predecessors but before he took office.
 
looker-on said:
It is, indeed, beyond a lot of people's grasp, Terry, and not only in the US but in other countries with a growing right-wing populist movement as well. The reasons for this reach from one dominant reason to a combination of several ones. For some people one issue, e.g. immigration, is so significant that it makes every other thought unimportant. Others may not like Trump as a person, but vote for him nonetheless.
As I said in my previous post, there is a lot of anxiety among certain sections of the population that their well-earned but still modest prosperity may be endangered. In their endeavour to make sense of this situation they feel tempted to accept a simple explanation offered in the past and also today by politicians that immigrants will take away their jobs. This tale has often been told but it hasn't lost its appeal. In the US it's predominantly the white male population without a college degree living in rural areas of the fly-over states who find this scapegoating approach convincing. Those men see themselves as losers who can't feed a family any more and suffer from a lack of dignity and self-respect. They argue that life in the old days was better and more normal. Gas was cheap, their wages were above average, there were no gender politics, men could be men, gun laws were lax, life was affordable and the environment didn't send a bill, environmental protection was unknown, people were devout believers and ardent church-goers for whom abortion was no issue. All that had allegedly been called into question by a new generation of educated politicians and scientists living in the big cities and opening the borders for immigrants.
And then this fair-haired guy came along who was a self-made billionaire, talked and behaved like their buddies in the local diner, didn't mince his words, and keeps telling them that they were right and the establishment was wrong. It was all hoaxes and fakes and he promised them cowboy-like leadership which would include thumping his fist on the table whenever necessary. They didn't take offence that he had no manners and pulled out of contracts. For them, Trump is authentic. His voters weren't looking for competence, professionalism, and erudite language used by a black woman who promised that she knew those chauvinistic guys like Trump inside out and would show them up, but for a proven money- and deal maker who could cope with the wicked dictators of the world. Economic success was ascribed to Trump, economic problems, however, to Biden/Harris.
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Well written and explained Thomas. Thanks.

"Those poor and ignored fly over states".The Repubicans ensconced themselves with them also due to the archaic electoral college voting system. Australia has had its own shenanigans too. Yes, Trump worked hard to gain those rundown states promising them everything with God's blessing. I wonder how the working poor will feel when prices and inflation rise when Trumps Tariffs kick in. Trump will blame others naturally. 😇
 
Richie said:
Nail on the head Thomas. The current socialist govt here has an open door immigration policy with hundreds of thousand pouring into our country since they came to power. I think they almost doubled the previous administration figures. Betting too a good percentage would not be skilled professionals. The Opposition Liberals will seal govt at the upcoming election if they cut a swathe thru immigration.
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Our illegal Immigrant influx is mild compared to America and Europe. We have a geographical advantage being a remote island continent but we do get queue jumpers, agreed Craig and less under our stricter conservative coalition.
A PM (?) In waiting Lord Voldamorte Dutton would be tougher and heartless for sure.
Interesting is that most of our illegal immigrants arrive here by plane as tourists, students, ...
But that's just a segment of the big picture. With our ageing population, a low birth rate, a lack of skilled people, we do need immigrants to keep things running smoothly. . . They also bring their wealth.
I do not like the queue jumpers. In her later years my eldest and highly qualified sister wanted to join us, her family in Australia. She was refused due to age and health. We all graciously accepted the ruling.
However sadly, with gobal warming and wars, many are fleeing though necessity.
 
Richie said:
Live Putin Conference!!
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I watched it all the way through with some jumping but did not find the point at which he exploded over what precisely? Where is it in the video? Who is he talking to? Journalists from various countries?

Apart from that, my comment is this:
Germany is not sovereign? True, gas is supplied to East European countries like Hungary and Slovakia. The one still operational pipeline has never been used for them: that's the logic, Mr Putin. He's right about the cost of LNG but it shows how furious he inwardly is about the fact that Western Europe does not take his gas any longer.
True, the Russian economy is resilient but he failed to say why: because it's a war economy only and will collapse once the war is over.
 
looker-on said:
Harry Potter fan? :)
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A little bit. Poor Peter has a hair issue that made him look like Voldermorte.
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looker-on said:
How do they get in at airports with all their security checks?
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We do ok and tonight I'm watching our "Border Force" tv series. All fairly current stuff and the numbers of violators is a strong and ongoing strem. Bio security for our fragile eco system, drugs, drugs, drugs, illegal wannabe migrants, student and tourist overstayers, hate preachers, ... it goes on no doubt.
 
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looker-on said:
True, the Russian economy is resilient but he failed to say why: because it's a war economy only and will collapse once the war is over.
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Spot on Thomas. He must've been dreading Ukraine cutting off his gas pipeline. Surprised Zelensky waited this long. Has Germany found an alternate gas source yet and who else is no longer taking Russian gas?
 
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