WHAT HAPPENED

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Grier said:
⏳No, not the 5th crusade Craig.
That started 5 years later 🕰 and continued on for a while.

This one occurred in just one year, 1212 and not recognised by the then pope but by another pope by inference later on. 🤔

This Crusade was another failure and started in France and Germany and then other Christian European countries joined in with a fervour of Religiosity.... Italy, Spain, ...

The aim was again to free Jerusalem from the Muslims.

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That is a Knights Templar, the religious order that led some early crusades. They were also heretics and murderers.
 
Grier said:
⏳No, not the 5th crusade Craig.
That started 5 years later 🕰 and continued on for a while.

This one occurred in just one year, 1212 and not recognised by the then pope but by another pope by inference later on. 🤔

This Crusade was another failure and started in France and Germany and then other Christian European countries joined in with a fervour of Religiosity.... Italy, Spain, ...

The aim was again to free Jerusalem from the Muslims.

View attachment 2995
Click to expand...
That sounds like the so-called Children's Crusade. Does it not?🤔
 
Hi Craig,

you did mention Jerusalem but this crusade never got to the city. It was an abject failure. 😵
 
Richie said:
Never heard of it. But Thomas had so top work old chap.
Was it actually led by children, no wonder the then Pope did not sanction it.
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I didn't know the exact year but that the pope ignored it and didn't approve it, respectively, rang a bell. The pic of the armoured knight may have been a bit misleading, though, but fits in with the myths surrounding the event.
 
looker-on said:
I didn't know the exact year but that the pope ignored it and didn't approve it, respectively, rang a bell. The pic of the armoured knight may have been a bit misleading, though, but fits in with the myths surrounding the event.
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Sorry if my dinkum crusader pic was a red herring.🥴

I thought these would be a dead giveaway:

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A stupid tragedy that really happened with many of the mob of children dying or enslaved. Religious fervour seeping into the psyche of the gullible children, including some young adults too.

Was the cause of the Childfen's Crusade an example of disinformation? 🤫 Primative social media ??
 
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Grier said:
A stupid tragedy that really happened with many of the mob of children dying or enslaved. Religious fervour seeping into the psyche of the gullible children, including some young adults too.

Was the cause of the Childfen's Crusade an example of disinformation? 🤫 Primative social media ??
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I'd agree but would add that poverty and the poverty movements were another driving force behind them. Think of religious orders like the Franciscan Order that were founded as a reaction to the wealthy clergy and upper classes in general. On the secular side there were a lot of countermovements which included the so-called Children's Crusade, which was made up of the poor, the elderly, young people, women, and members of the lower clergy, who were committed to the idea of poverty.

I had said "so-called" since reliable sources are extremely weak. There are no eyewitness reports at all. If one understands the wording used at the time in a broader sense, it was not just children but servants, shepherds, and maids, even prostitutes and pickpockets. In fact, one has to imagine a colourful troupe of the down-and-out or deplorables as Hillary Clinton would call them. The growth of the rich medieval cities had given rise to an impoverished and rootless rural lumpen precariat.
Disinformation? I'm not sure if it was that intentional. It was a mixture of translation errors and taking advantage of the fact that the idea of the children's crusade had grown into a legend that is still powerful today which accounts for various trivial literary attempts at fictionalization. A potential cash cow for many.
The participants in all the children's crusades must have felt: If the adults don't want to take the future into their own hands, i.e. failed crusades, why not the children with all their “power of innocence”? To my mind, this is the true core of the children's crusade narrative. If you like, Greta Thunberg revived it with her call for a school strike to improve the environment as the star of a new “children's crusade”, including an appearance at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
 
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This Childrens Crusade came as a big surprise to me as early this year I watched the entire Crusades saga from 1095 to 1292, almost two centuries and found nothing on the CC. Yes religious fervor Thomas, which was no doubt instilled into them by their fathers and probably grand fathers too. Same as those ISIS nutters did to their sons and even their wives. Religious fervor can be extremely dangerous.
 
looker-on said:
I'd agree but would add that poverty and the poverty movements were another driving force behind them. Think of religious orders like the Franciscan Order that were founded as a reaction to the wealthy clergy and upper classes in general. On the secular side there were a lot of countermovements which included the so-called Children's Crusade, which was made up of the poor, the elderly, young people, women, and members of the lower clergy, who were committed to the idea of poverty.

I had said "so-called" since reliable sources are extremely weak. There are no eyewitness reports at all. If one understands the wording used at the time in a broader sense, it was not just children but servants, shepherds, and maids, even prostitutes and pickpockets. In fact, one has to imagine a colourful troupe of the down-and-out or deplorables as Hillary Clinton would call them. The growth of the rich medieval cities had given rise to an impoverished and rootless rural lumpen precariat.
Disinformation? I'm not sure if it was that intentional. It was a mixture of translation errors and taking advantage of the fact that the idea of the children's crusade had grown into a legend that is still powerful today which accounts for various trivial literary attempts at fictionalization. A potential cash cow for many.
The participants in all the children's crusades must have felt: If the adults don't want to take the future into their own hands, i.e. failed crusades, why not the children with all their “power of innocence”? To my mind, this is the true core of the children's crusade narrative. If you like, Greta Thunberg revived it with her call for a school strike to improve the environment as the star of a new “children's crusade”, including an appearance at the World Economic Forum in Davos.
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You're more learned than me on this history Thomas. I appreciate your perspectives and speculations which I've taken on board. Including the fog of history. Thanks.

Poor "Poor" people as you mentioned and not just children.
The stories about tragedies like this one hopefully acted as a lesson for those times, and even these times 🤔 with our brain washed kids addicted to social media.

Your turn I guess. 🙂
 
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Grier said:
The stories about tragedies like this one hopefully acted as a lesson for those times, and even these times 🤔 with our brain washed kids addicted to social media.
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So true. I'm being reminded of DH Lawrence's adage "Trust the tale, not the teller", something that our kids may still have to fully grasp and tell apart. Seems like a tall order if you look at how many of them cling to the coat-tails of their influencers in the asocial media.
 
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