Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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someblokecalleddave said:
Good net session tonight and it's looking like I've got a wrong un and a top-spinner for this season...
http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/warm-weather-in-uk-early-season-training.html
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You can't beat confidence to help you bowl better. I remember bowling a couple of wrong uns in the winter nets a month or two ago and they were about as perfect as you can get them. I have to say, getting a batter with a wrong un is probably the most satisfying way to pick up a wicket.

I've never tried bowling with a big bucket of balls. I usually use 7 or 8, but I came to the conclusion some time ago that it is better to use just the one ball. Sometimes, it's just too much messing about to have to go and collect the same ball, so I will use 7 or 8. But ideally, there will be a batter there and I'll use the same ball over and over again. Each ball feels different in your hands and my feeling was that using loads of different balls just messes with your grip and release.
 
I am a leg spin bowler who gets a lot of drift which means it slides down leg very often, what should I do to control my drift( I am a big turner of the ball)
 
Chino#21 said:
Just start the ball wider on the off side. Or experiment with going around the wickets. If I were a right handed leg spinner I'd be bowling around the wickets all the time.
It is very helpful if you can drift the ball a lot, particularly from around. You bowl the ball towards off; the batsman plants his foot for the cover drive; the ball drifts late and pitches outside leg; and he is in one of the most comical positions in cricket. Another would be the batsman closing off entirely to cut a googly that has pitched on off stump, or leaving it.
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but sometimes it doesn't drift
 
Robert Walker said:
I am a leg spin bowler who gets a lot of drift which means it slides down leg very often, what should I do to control my drift( I am a big turner of the ball)
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Generally speaking, a pro legspinner would just look to get a bit more overspin on the ball and convert some of that sideways movement into dip. The problem with that is that if you are not a very experienced legspinner or if your action isn't very, very solid and dependable you can mess up your action.

So, if you don't want to work on getting your hand coming over the ball to get a bit more overspin, you just simply have to aim the ball outside off-stump. It's not a bad thing if the ball lands outside leg-stump and turns back into the batter. You can set a field with a bat-pad for that and have someone at cow corner and deep midwicket if the batter is looking to slog sweep the fuller ball on or just outside leg-stump (of course, you can leave that area open if you want the batter to try the slog sweep - just have your midwicket ready for the top edge).

I get reasonable bit of drift. Not a huge amount, but enough. The problem I have is that batters who get used to me will leave a lot of balls on line. They gamble on the ball always turning away so that anything landing on off-stump or just outside, they leave or cut. I do now bowl a topspinner/wrong un but it's still a bit of a work in progress. Quite often, I will try to land the ball on middle-stump, if the turn is consistent, and make the batter play. If I got a lot of drift, it would make life a little easier because it's not so comfortable for the batter to leave a ball on leg-stump.
 
Cleanprophet said:
Generally speaking, a pro legspinner would just look to get a bit more overspin on the ball and convert some of that sideways movement into dip. The problem with that is that if you are not a very experienced legspinner or if your action isn't very, very solid and dependable you can mess up your action.

So, if you don't want to work on getting your hand coming over the ball to get a bit more overspin, you just simply have to aim the ball outside off-stump. It's not a bad thing if the ball lands outside leg-stump and turns back into the batter. You can set a field with a bat-pad for that and have someone at cow corner and deep midwicket if the batter is looking to slog sweep the fuller ball on or just outside leg-stump (of course, you can leave that area open if you want the batter to try the slog sweep - just have your midwicket ready for the top edge).

I get reasonable bit of drift. Not a huge amount, but enough. The problem I have is that batters who get used to me will leave a lot of balls on line. They gamble on the ball always turning away so that anything landing on off-stump or just outside, they leave or cut. I do now bowl a topspinner/wrong un but it's still a bit of a work in progress. Quite often, I will try to land the ball on middle-stump, if the turn is consistent, and make the batter play. If I got a lot of drift, it would make life a little easier because it's not so comfortable for the batter to leave a ball on leg-stump.
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CP, have you got a pure Top-Spinner? They're so easy to develop if you're prepared to change your grip a little and use the technique I use, I've also found that using this grip I'm able for the first time in 3 or 4 years to bowl decent turning wrong-un.
 
Robert Walker said:
but sometimes it doesn't drift
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But that's awesome. I can't remember the exact quote but I think it was Wayne Daniel who said something like, "let the batsman negotiate the ball". i.e., if you are giving the ball a chance to do this or that, it's the batman's problem working out exactly what it is going to do.
 
boogiespinner said:
But that's awesome. I can't remember the exact quote but I think it was Wayne Daniel who said something like, "let the batsman negotiate the ball". i.e., if you are giving the ball a chance to do this or that, it's the batman's problem working out exactly what it is going to do.
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I always say to batters, that I'm giving some advice to, that they need to "happen" to the ball rather than allow the ball to "happen" to them. In other words, be proactive. I see batters, mostly young batters, staying in their crease to a spinner and just trying to react to what the ball does. At times, you see them struggling against a ball that is too short and should be smashed away.

From my point of view, I like seeing batters be reactive. As you say, once the ball leaves my hand it's down to the batter to negotiate it.

someblokecalleddave said:
CP, have you got a pure Top-Spinner? They're so easy to develop if you're prepared to change your grip a little and use the technique I use, I've also found that using this grip I'm able for the first time in 3 or 4 years to bowl decent turning wrong-un.
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I do. Although I can't bowl it on demand. That's to say, I'll often bowl it whilst trying to bowl the wrong un. It's fine with me because sometimes it will turn into the batter, sometimes it will go straight on and now and then it ends to turning away like a leggie. I was bowling some topspinners in the nets on Thursday and was very happy with them. I need to get my arm through nice and quick. I tend to bowl the wrong un (or attempted wrong un as it usually is) with a slower arm because I'm uncertain of the release. In fact, I find that the slower arm makes it more likely for me to not get the release right. The quicker arm tends to help me to force the hand into the wrong un release position. Not to mention of course, that the arm should be the same speed for all deliveries so it's something I should be doing. It's just that instinct, where I feel I will make a horrible mess of it if I try to really rip a wrong un/topspinner, that I need to overcome.

It's great to see that hard spun topspinner really spit up at the batter.
 
Chino#21 said:
That makes sense, but in a way I actually like it more when batsmen try to "happen" to the ball. That way they make misjudgements, but if the ball "happens" to them they can be very irritating to bowl to.
I'm playing a friendly match later on, the club's youngsters vs old players. The pitch is still wet but it looks like it will dry out and become a hard, slightly sticky pitch. So far I think it will offer a lot of turn for my side-spinning deliveries and much less to over-spinning deliveries. Backspinners should skid on but that will depend on how dry it gets. I hate pitches that make the ball do things it really shouldn't be doing. Not that you can say that a certain amount of movement is "correct" for a delivery, it's just my idea of what the ball should do. I want a 90 degree side-spinner to turn more than all the other angles of spin; 45 degrees in between with bounce; top spinner straight on with the most bounce; backspinner straight on with the least bounce; undercutter straight on with low bounce. Some surfaces make these deliveries do the exact opposite of this.
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There are pro's and cons to the batter waiting for the ball and the batter going at the ball. I quite like it when the batter comes at the ball. Really, all spinners should really enjoy the batter coming at the ball. I know what you mean about those batters who sit in the crease and wait for the ball. If you drop it just a touch short, they are all over it. You've just got to get fielders on the drive and pitch it nice and full to them and do your best to not drop anything short - unless you push one through nice and quick.

We had a game yesterday that was supposed to be 3rd team against the Friendly XI. I played for the Friendly XI and the 3rd team had quite a few young players in there and it was one of these farce games that is 7-a-side or 8-a-side, can't remember the numbers exactly. By the time I came on to bowl, the 3rd team were 3 or 4 wickets down and it was only the youngsters left to bat. I was bowling to one youngster who could only have been about 4ft tall, with his junior pads on and junior bat. I was bowling within myself to him and it soon became clear that, although a little chap, he was actually a decent little batter. He managed to pull a couple off his legs (being so short, a length ball was sitting up nicely for him), including a wrong un that was on legstump and allowed him to work it onto the legside. He picked up 3 or 4 runs off my bowling (I probably bowled about 10 balls to him and he handled most reasonably well). Not sure how many overs I bowled. Probably only about 4 or 5 overs. I didn't get a wicket and went for about 14 or 15 runs. I did bowl a ball I'd been working on throughout the winter and it was pretty decent. The quick slider and actually grips a decent bit. The batter was pre-meditating a bit of a slog towards mid-wicket/cow corner and he had to react quick, just about managing to jam his bat down on the ball. It was very, very close to getting him LBW or bowled. He was one of the older players (about 15yo) and he can play a bit.

Ultimately, I didn't get a great deal out of that bowling spell. A bit disappointing really. I did go into the nets after the game and had a bowl and it was coming out quite nicely. I was ripping the ball as hard as I could and landing it on a line and a length quite consistently. We have a home game next Sunday. Hopefully that ends up a proper 11-a-side and I get to a bowl a good number of overs. The one thing I still struggle with it getting some rhythm going early in my bowling spell. I'm getting better at it. In the past I could go 5 or 6 overs before I had enough rhythm going to really rip it as hard as I can. But it still takes about 2 or 3 overs for me to have the confidence to spin it hard. I have to be spinning it hard in that first over.
 
boogiespinner said:
Arthur Mailey shamelessly confessed to using resin to help his grip, I wouldn't blame him. It's not like ball-tampering.
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I have the opposite problem but, ultimately, the same effect. My hands are too dry. They don't sweat very easily. On a day that's not very warm and on a day that is windy, my hands are bone dry. It's difficult to grip the ball and really rip it. Of course, I can and do wet my fingers by licking them or wiping them on my head - if I'm sweating. But it's not ideal because my hands still dry out by the time I release the ball. If the ball is a little wet or if I'm sweating quite a bit, the feel and grip on the ball is perfect. I'd estimate that I only ever my find myself in that position one in every five games.

Most spinners I see have the problem of sweaty hands and the ball being slippy because of that. On a wet day, it can be a nightmare.

Chino#21 said:
Quite coincidentally I was bowling to the exact type of batsmen you described. They just hung back in the crease and hook anything full or short with power. I got hammered - 1/32 in 4. They scored 185 in 27 overs. It was one of those days when the ball feels like a watermelon. I couldn't grip it at all; it felt much larger than normal balls and only every third ball came out of my hand as it should. I hate these situations because there really isn't anything that I can do besides bowl flat and hope I land the ball on a good length, which I didn't. These large, slippery balls have been a problem for me before; every time I feel one I know it is going to be a bad day for bowling. One backspinner that I bowled bounced twice. It was supposed to be spun out of the hand from left to right and down the back of the ball, but it got so stuck in my hand that it came out like an off spinner! Every time I loosened my grip to prevent this I ended up bowling a full toss.
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It's no fun when you have a game like that. Really, you just have to try and bowl it quicker. Not flat and quick, but just work on being able to bowl your normal legspinner with more pace. That just takes time and work. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time and work. That's why legspin is the most difficult thing you can do in cricket.
 
First game this Sunday a friendly - weird mix of players, 1st, 3rd and 4th team players, old blokes and my two sons. Kind of surprised all three of us were selected, but it may have been because we all signed up for it and perhaps there some kind of football event happening that I'm oblivious to?

Update Friday night - Gutted, game called off as the opposition couldn't get a team together.
 
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Ive played my first two matches this season for my new club, the first match, i got smashes for 16 because the ball was new and u couldnt get a grip, the second match i arrived late and so i only bowled 1 over for a wicket, today im playing a 4xi match.
 
shahidpak said:
Ive played my first two matches this season for my new club, the first match, i got smashes for 16 because the ball was new and u couldnt get a grip, the second match i arrived late and so i only bowled 1 over for a wicket, today im playing a 4xi match.
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Can't wait to hear how you get on in the 4XI game, let's hope you get a few overs! Our match tomorrow was cancelled, I reckon that's down to the football tomorrow Chelsea v Arsenal, the opposition couldn't get a team together. Our first league match isn't for another 2 weeks yet. Fingers crossed there may be an inter-club match next weekend a mixture of 3rd and 4th XI players, will have to wait and see.
 
Chino#21 said:
Yesterday I got the award for best second team bowler of the season. Very unexpected as I was quite inconsistent with the ball in some matches. Overall I had 17 wickets in 9 games @17, strike rate of 18, best of 6-35. Together with school cricket my stats are:
25 wickets @15
6 Caught, 8 Stumped, 6 Clean bowled, 5 LBW.
4 Left handers, 21 Right handers.
5 Googly wickets, 1 Backspinner wicket.
10 Maidens.
25 Wides.
I'm happy with these numbers but I'd like to be a bit more economical and focus more on accuracy and bowling with more over spin, particularly when the ball is wet or slippery. Luckily I have 6 months to work on this before next season.
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Good work! A strike rate of 18's not bad. Nice that you've got five there with Googlies. I've got a Googly this season I reckon, my bowling's coming together quite nicely at the moment, had a good session today practicing.
 
Chino#21 said:
Thanks! Yeah I got a bit lucky with the googlies, bowled two great ones to left-handers though.
Do you normally bowl to a batsman during practice sessions? I crave practices without batsmen, they only get in the way and I really don't know what to focus on if someone is batting and expecting me to "give him practice". If I have 3 cones to aim for and it's only me bowling I can work on accuracy, variations, plans and spinning the ball. With a batsman the only thing I'm trying to do is getting him out, after which he is still there just whacking everything and claiming everything as a six. I don't understand how anyone can practice properly that way. As far as I can recall Peter Philpott also said that net sessions with batsmen are bad for your bowling.
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I was thinking about this today - it's a bit of a conundrum... Wednesday nights we now have outdoor nets and anyone that has any ability with the bat just looks to smash you into the next county, which to be honest is pretty tedious. It's obvious that given a match situation they wouldn't carry that approach into the game because normally you've got them within a few balls, but they still insist on batting like that! I suppose it's a challenge for us in those situations to come up with a solution to their approach or still carry out our own plans and see what they do in response and whether it seems that it's likely to work. With regards to Phillpot, I can't recall for certain, but Grimmett for definite would very rarely bowl against any batsmen and hated doing so. He would argue that for one it gives them to opportunity to work out how to play spin generally, but what he hated was the fact that it gave them the opportunity to have a look at his bowling. He knew, even if they were his mates in the Aussie team, he would at some point face them in domestic games and he always wanted to win and beat them no matter who they were. He hated batsmen.

Yeah I bowl primarily on my own or against my sons, but where we practice there's no scope for them to hit big other than through the off-side and none of us are batsmen. So most of my practice is solitary. I was thinking today whether there are any key benefits to bowling in that way and there has to be if you set yourself goals to achieve. I think it's essential to set goals and targets otherwise you reduce the benefits of practicing in that way. Philpott for one advocates doing it with intention and to take it deadly seriously. I recall he says if it's not done with purpose it's pointless.

Currently with two weeks to go till the first league game, I'm working on a bunch of things - Top Spinner, Googly and Flipper, I might scrap the flipper though. I've just got myself a piece of flat bright yellow plastic that's heavy enough to not be blown around by the wind. It's about 14" x 10" and the intention is that I'm going to use it as a target for my Top-Spinners and Leg Breaks. I move it around and try and hit it irrespective of its position. Actually thinking about it, I've got a bit of thick canvas somewhere that's a better option as the ball still turns off of that. Another thing I do is place a set of stumps in front of the real stumps slightly outside of leg in the position where the batsman stands and try and spin the ball around the stumps that are in the way. I'll have to take some pic's and either put on my blog or put them on here. I should do some new vids, my youtube vids are old now and could do with updating.
 
For most of the last 3 or so years, I think about 90% of my practice has been on my own and just that 10% bowling to a batsman. I'd use a target maybe half of the time (I used to use a little bit of bat grip that was cut open so that it was a little strip about 5" wide and 10" long).

I had a game today and it went reasonably well. It was sunny but not really warm. I had that problem of very dry hands and was struggling to really grip the ball, but I was able to cope with that, for the most part. My match figures were 4 wickets for 66 runs from 10 overs. I was a bit shocked when I saw, at the end, that I went for 66. It felt more like half that. In fairness, we had 4 or 5 players who's more athletic days are behind them, so the fielding was not very good at all. I can remember three times a ball went to one of the lesser fielders on the boundary only to see them totally mess it up and allow a four where there should have been no more than a single. There was one moment where the slip fielder had dropped about 10 yards because his back was a bit sore and he didn't fancy standing up in the slips. The ball was edged towards him, it bounced in front of him and went past him for a four. So, there was a good 13 runs right there that shouldn't have happened and a wicket I missed out on. There was also a couple of drops, but I expect a few now given that the fielding is so weak (not to mention a blatant edge to the keeper that wasn't given by the umpire). Could easily have been 6 or 7 wickets for 50 runs. We only had 10 players and the boundary rope is ridiculously short, so going for 4-5 an over is probably not too bad.

As for the wickets. The opposition were quite aggressive and swinging at most deliveries. I opted to bowl it quite slowly (45mph to 50mph, but most around the 45mph mark). None of the batters showed any signs of using their feet, so I was able to keep it at that pace for 4 or 5 balls in the over with just the odd one or two 50mph and quicker. The first wicket was quite full and went straight through the gate, clean bowling the batter. The other 3 were much more satisfying. They were all on a good length, on or just outside off-stump and getting the outside edge to the keeper for one and the other two to first slip (once I'd ensured he actually got into slip and not stood back 10 yards!).

All in all, I was very happy with how it came out and the control. Most overs I was able to put together a good series of deliveries with no bad deliveries. I bowled one full toss and there were a couple that were a touch wide of off-stump and that was it. I bowled a few topspinners and one or two wrong uns. One of them was just a touch too wide and the batter edged it for four. That topspinner really does have to be on the stumps or very, very tight to off-stump - unless the batter is looking to play legside for most of his scoring. Any width and you are simply bowling something that you regular slogger can score off.

I lost count of the number of play and misses I bowled. I'd say somewhere between 40% and 50% were a play and miss. It's quite good fun to see the batters really struggle to play it. In fact, when I came in to bat I heard one of the fielders saying "let's give him a taste of his own medicine!". The spinner who was bowling however was bowling these horrible 35mph moon balls. Terrible stuff. I only got to face one of his deliveries before getting out at the other end to their best bowler. He was by no means a good bowler, just a decent medium pace bowler who bowled a good line. I found myself pushing at a back-of-a-length ball that was just outside off-stump and I got an edge that was smartly taken by 2nd slip. I should have been leaving it or cutting. Not playing straight to it. That's just asking to get out. It did cross my mind that I seem to have 2 or 3 drops off my bowling as standard and yet the fielders never seem to drop my edges when I'm batting! But, the four wickets did compensate for the batting failure.
 
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