Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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Cleanprophet said:
For most of the last 3 or so years, I think about 90% of my practice has been on my own and just that 10% bowling to a batsman. I'd use a target maybe half of the time (I used to use a little bit of bat grip that was cut open so that it was a little strip about 5" wide and 10" long).

I had a game today and it went reasonably well. It was sunny but not really warm. I had that problem of very dry hands and was struggling to really grip the ball, but I was able to cope with that, for the most part. My match figures were 4 wickets for 66 runs from 10 overs. I was a bit shocked when I saw, at the end, that I went for 66. It felt more like half that. In fairness, we had 4 or 5 players who's more athletic days are behind them, so the fielding was not very good at all. I can remember three times a ball went to one of the lesser fielders on the boundary only to see them totally mess it up and allow a four where there should have been no more than a single. There was one moment where the slip fielder had dropped about 10 yards because his back was a bit sore and he didn't fancy standing up in the slips. The ball was edged towards him, it bounced in front of him and went past him for a four. So, there was a good 13 runs right there that shouldn't have happened and a wicket I missed out on. There was also a couple of drops, but I expect a few now given that the fielding is so weak (not to mention a blatant edge to the keeper that wasn't given by the umpire). Could easily have been 6 or 7 wickets for 50 runs. We only had 10 players and the boundary rope is ridiculously short, so going for 4-5 an over is probably not too bad.

As for the wickets. The opposition were quite aggressive and swinging at most deliveries. I opted to bowl it quite slowly (45mph to 50mph, but most around the 45mph mark). None of the batters showed any signs of using their feet, so I was able to keep it at that pace for 4 or 5 balls in the over with just the odd one or two 50mph and quicker. The first wicket was quite full and went straight through the gate, clean bowling the batter. The other 3 were much more satisfying. They were all on a good length, on or just outside off-stump and getting the outside edge to the keeper for one and the other two to first slip (once I'd ensured he actually got into slip and not stood back 10 yards!).

All in all, I was very happy with how it came out and the control. Most overs I was able to put together a good series of deliveries with no bad deliveries. I bowled one full toss and there were a couple that were a touch wide of off-stump and that was it. I bowled a few topspinners and one or two wrong uns. One of them was just a touch too wide and the batter edged it for four. That topspinner really does have to be on the stumps or very, very tight to off-stump - unless the batter is looking to play legside for most of his scoring. Any width and you are simply bowling something that you regular slogger can score off.

I lost count of the number of play and misses I bowled. I'd say somewhere between 40% and 50% were a play and miss. It's quite good fun to see the batters really struggle to play it. In fact, when I came in to bat I heard one of the fielders saying "let's give him a taste of his own medicine!". The spinner who was bowling however was bowling these horrible 35mph moon balls. Terrible stuff. I only got to face one of his deliveries before getting out at the other end to their best bowler. He was by no means a good bowler, just a decent medium pace bowler who bowled a good line. I found myself pushing at a back-of-a-length ball that was just outside off-stump and I got an edge that was smartly taken by 2nd slip. I should have been leaving it or cutting. Not playing straight to it. That's just asking to get out. It did cross my mind that I seem to have 2 or 3 drops off my bowling as standard and yet the fielders never seem to drop my edges when I'm batting! But, the four wickets did compensate for the batting failure.
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Nice work mate! For the first game with all those cock ups, I'd be happy to come away with 4 with a strike rate of 16.5. I certainly can't moan too much about people dropping catches or not putting in the effort to save fours or get to a ball that's in the air for a couple of minutes, our 4th XI is made up of kids and blokes that are a little long in the tooth, I'm happy that they're there making up the numbers so that we can have a game, so when that kind of thing happens I just smile wryly to myself, I'm not one of those that expects a 14 year old boy or a bloke in the over 40's age bracket to sprint around, dive and catch like Herschell Gibbs or Paul Collingwood. Although I do try that myself!
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Nice work mate! For the first game with all those cock ups, I'd be happy to come away with 4 with a strike rate of 16.5. I certainly can't moan too much about people dropping catches or not putting in the effort to save fours or get to a ball that's in the air for a couple of minutes, our 4th XI is made up of kids and blokes that are a little long in the tooth, I'm happy that they're there making up the numbers so that we can have a game, so when that kind of thing happens I just smile wryly to myself, I'm not one of those that expects a 14 year old boy or a bloke in the over 40's age bracket to sprint around, dive and catch like Herschell Gibbs or Paul Collingwood. Although I do try that myself!
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Yeah, I'm happy with the four wickets. Overall, I bowled very well and the four wickets, along with clear edge that wasn't given and two drops, were testament to that. I'm just as pleased with the fact that I bowled very few poor deliveries. Although, I would say I bowled at about 80% for most balls I bowled - mainly due to a combination of my hands being far too dry to actually really rip the ball and the fact that the batters put no pressure on me to really rip it. I probably bowled about only 5 or 6 balls that were anywhere near flat out. It just showed to me that if you get your length right, you can bowl comfortably within yourself. That balance is crucial. When you bowl flat out it is tougher to hit a consistent line and length. Equally, bowl too much within youself and it is too easy for the batter to get after you. I think I got the balance just right on Sunday. In the past, I've tried to bowl at 100% when it probably wasn't needed - trying to bowl the perfect ball rather than do what is needed.

The fielding thing is something I'm getting used to. I can't help but get a bit annoyed when an easy catch goes down. I am getting better at not showing that annoyance however. Like your team, we often have a few youngsters and a few older blokes playing for us. It's a question of getting those better fielders in those positions were the catches are most likely to be (mid-wicket, deep-mid wicket, long-off and the slips). I had a young kid at mid-wicket and he dropped a pretty easy catch, so I've learned to have the better catches in that sort of position. The problem I have is that there's probably only about 3 players (other than me) who can catch and one of them is the keeper!
 
I've got two catchers that I put at mid off and mid on - a father and son combo, they're good, they run miles and really put the effort in to catch the ball and pull off some pretty amazing catches. There's a few others that are kind of 50/50 with their success rate and probably about 5 including me unfortunately that put down skiers especially.
 
Another practice tonight with younger son Joe. We move a car mat around the wicket and try and land the ball onto the mat, it's a good drill, depending on how wide of the stumps the mat is the more you have to spin it. I'm beginning to realise there are so many ways to subtly bowl your leg break and vary what it does, more spin, less spin, more over spin, side spin and all this around your stock ball. At the moment everything feels like it's coming together very nicely pre-season.
 
Dave that sounds great and if Joe is there with you, hopefully his 'spin journey', if he decides to go down that path, will benefit from that. Its difficult to get that sort of subtle knowledge into younger players without them going through all the trial and error, I still think they need a bit of that but the sooner they appreciate what to use and when to use it the better. How many times have you heard coaches say 'you don't need all the variations' yet you see players spend hours and hours on this variation and that (often at the cost of their stock ball) well, hopefully you can now see what we were on about :) Best of luck for the season.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Another practice tonight with younger son Joe. We move a car mat around the wicket and try and land the ball onto the mat, it's a good drill, depending on how wide of the stumps the mat is the more you have to spin it. I'm beginning to realise there are so many ways to subtly bowl your leg break and vary what it does, more spin, less spin, more over spin, side spin and all this around your stock ball. At the moment everything feels like it's coming together very nicely pre-season.
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Nice one Dave. I'm with you on the subtle variations. I have a stock legbreak, a flighted more side spinning one, and a faster one, and coupled with changing position on the crease - seems enough to confuse most batsmen. If its a really good batter I'll try the googly aswell. Are you captain again this year?
 
TonyM said:
Dave that sounds great and if Joe is there with you, hopefully his 'spin journey', if he decides to go down that path, will benefit from that. Its difficult to get that sort of subtle knowledge into younger players without them going through all the trial and error, I still think they need a bit of that but the sooner they appreciate what to use and when to use it the better. How many times have you heard coaches say 'you don't need all the variations' yet you see players spend hours and hours on this variation and that (often at the cost of their stock ball) well, hopefully you can now see what we were on about :) Best of luck for the season.
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It's taken me a season or two to start to get a handle on how to actually bowl legspin - and I knew all along what I had to do. It still took a year or so to really get that knowledge because you only really get that by playing in matches. A lot of it is instinct. At the weekend, I had an instinct to bowl it slower to some batters and quicker to a couple of other batters (who both edged the ball to slip and got out). You can spend so much time working in the nets, focusing on bowling a really good looking legspinner. Of course, you have to do that. But really good looking legspinning deliveries don't often get wickets and they can get smashed out the park. Sometimes you can bowl a subtle variation of a legspinner that isn't spot on, but it does the trick because it catches the batter out (maybe because it is flighted more or is quicker or wider or whatever). I bowled 4 or 5 absolute beauties on Sunday, but all they did was pitch on middle-leg, square the batter up and carry to the keeper. They were too good for the batter to do anything with and, being a legspinner, simply turned and missed all the good stuff! And that's the point. In the nets, I'd have thought "perfect. Absolutely spot on!" and try to repeat it over and over again. That's fair enough, but it's not likely to get many wickets. It will help you get on top of a batter and maybe induce an error from him later on. It's just about recognising that a delivery like that is not the be-all and end-all. It is simply a tool in your kitbag which should be used to set the batter up.
 
Hi guys,

Nice to see some leggies perfecting the art. It's so hard trying to focus on accuracy with this kind of bowling.
 
TonyM said:
Dave that sounds great and if Joe is there with you, hopefully his 'spin journey', if he decides to go down that path, will benefit from that. Its difficult to get that sort of subtle knowledge into younger players without them going through all the trial and error, I still think they need a bit of that but the sooner they appreciate what to use and when to use it the better. How many times have you heard coaches say 'you don't need all the variations' yet you see players spend hours and hours on this variation and that (often at the cost of their stock ball) well, hopefully you can now see what we were on about :) Best of luck for the season.
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Yeah Joe's there with me 90% of the time and he's a very different bowler to both me and Ben - bit of a Gary Sobers bowling all sorts, sometimes in the same over! He bowls good medium pace with an good off-cutter and varies his length loads. Then he'll bowl offies at different speeds, flight and loop and then when you think you've found a solution to his offies, he bowls a super fast arm ball, I can't play him at all!!! He even bowls the odd leg break in amongst it all. He takes no notice of me and does it his way, I think his plan is to bowl like his brother - seam up, this summer, but un-like Ben he has listened in small bits and he bowls with his fingers run down the back of the ball and produces in-swingers in amongst his off-cutters. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on in Ben's GCSE absence.
 
Billywhizz said:
Nice one Dave. I'm with you on the subtle variations. I have a stock legbreak, a flighted more side spinning one, and a faster one, and coupled with changing position on the crease - seems enough to confuse most batsmen. If its a really good batter I'll try the googly aswell. Are you captain again this year?
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No, thankfully, I was out voted. Some of them did propose that I would be, but the vote went in favour of the proper captain, seems he was up for it this year. Word is that we've got a lot more players this year, so he's going to be able to select half decent teams and not go out with 6 small boys and 5 old blokes, hence the reason he stood for the position. It'll be interesting to see how we do as we somehow managed to stay in the league albeit at the bottom. The small boys are all a lot bigger this year, so even if they are an integral part of the team, which for me isn't an issue at all, they will make an impact this year - run faster, hit the ball with a lot more confidence and power and bowl faster and with more spin!
 
Nets tonight again and another night of the sloggers being completely un-done by my top-spinners. Looking good and there's a sniff of a chance that I might get a game this Saturday.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Nets tonight again and another night of the sloggers being completely un-done by my top-spinners. Looking good and there's a sniff of a chance that I might get a game this Saturday.
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If the topspinner is ripped a fair bit, then the dip that you get really does cause all manner of problems to sloggers. Essentially, any batter with slack techniques will struggle when the ball isn't on the length they expect it to be on. They premeditate, plant their feet and get ready to swing. So any ball that dips on them will result in a miss-hit a lot of the time. It's those batters with quick feet who cope with topspinners well, but very few batters (even at high club level) use their feet well.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Can't wait to hear how you get on in the 4XI game, let's hope you get a few overs! Our match tomorrow was cancelled, I reckon that's down to the football tomorrow Chelsea v Arsenal, the opposition couldn't get a team together. Our first league match isn't for another 2 weeks yet. Fingers crossed there may be an inter-club match next weekend a mixture of 3rd and 4th XI players, will have to wait and see.
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Ive played 2 matches for the 4th XI since my last post and alltogether i got 5 wickets from 11 overs in those two games, im suite happy with that... Im only a bowler but my u15a coach asked me to bat 3 from now on , this is a big responsibility as the highest ive aver batted is 9 :eek: but very excited to take this responsibility and hopefully ill get runs.
 
When i was playing back in France, i only practised batting on synthetic football pitches , so the ball didnt come on to the bat so i had loads of time after the bounce to play my shots, even our pitches were only 3 inch grass mowed to 1 inch and they were "prepared" the same day or weird mats. I could used to batting on the synthetic, because thats where i batted the most, when I played on our mediocre attempted pitches, it came on slightly faster so I didn't bat exceptionally....

So pace bowlers like my brother didn't seem very fast when I played him on the synthetic, but on Wednesday I faced my brother, who didn't change his bowling, in the nets, and oh my god he seemed fast, he bowled me a couple of bouncers as well....

I now have to kind of learn to bat all over again, with this new pace, which seems impossible because I don't have enough time...
 
shahidpak said:
Ive played 2 matches for the 4th XI since my last post and alltogether i got 5 wickets from 11 overs in those two games, im suite happy with that... Im only a bowler but my u15a coach asked me to bat 3 from now on , this is a big responsibility as the highest ive aver batted is 9 :eek: but very excited to take this responsibility and hopefully ill get runs.
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Exceptionally good start well done mate! Batting, just take your time get in and then play your shots and see how it goes.
 
Question time

1.Do guys believe in the that a spinner must possess Tall skinny or Short fat fingers, along with strong shoulders in order to give good flick ?
2. Do you believe that revs give you more turn? I used to bowl "leg spin" in my highschool with very little revs but the ball still spun pretty well. Now I rip the ball hard as i can. But how come I was able to spin big with very little revs ?
 
Thivagar said:
Question time

1.Do guys believe in the that a spinner must possess Tall skinny or Short fat fingers, along with strong shoulders in order to give good flick ?
2. Do you believe that revs give you more turn? I used to bowl "leg spin" in my highschool with very little revs but the ball still spun pretty well. Now I rip the ball hard as i can. But how come I was able to spin big with very little revs ?
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There's no doubt that a legspinner's fingers are a major part of his ability to put revs on the ball. I'm not sure about the length of the fingers aspect of it. But the strength of the fingers is a big factor. I would imagine that longer fingers give more control and they would give more leverage on the ball, which would give the potential for revs. But, it is simply down to the strength of the fingers. Some people will have naturally stronger fingers but all spin bowlers will strengthen their fingers through doing a lot of bowling.

Revs on the ball is one thing. Spin off the pitch is another. The spin off the pitch relies on factors in control of the bowler and some out of the control of the bowler. The pitch is, of course, the key part of how much spin there is. If you used to bowl on particularly spin friendly pitches, then you would get spin with minimal revs. Equally, if you land the ball on the seam, you will get more grip off the pitch too. You can get a spinner who puts lots of revs on the ball but hardly ever lands the ball on the seam and you can get one who puts fewer revs but always lands the ball on the seam. The latter would probably get as much spin, if not more by simply landing the ball on the seam. However, bowling with a consistent seam position has its drawbacks. At an advanced level, the batter will read what the ball is doing by watching the seam. Also, there will be a consistency of spin which a decent batter will play for. Bowlers like Brad Hogg almost always scramble the seam. It makes it impossible to read the ball from the seam and it also means an inconsistency in how the ball reacts off the pitch. If the ball lands off the seam, it will grip less and skid on more. I've faced an off-spinner who often bowls a ball that is released slightly differently so that it lands on the smooth side of the ball. It shoots on and is a very awkward ball to face. You can pick it if you watch it closely. But you can achieve that by simply bowling with a scrambled seam. A lot of spin bowlers bowl with a scrambled seam, don't realise it and get confused why some balls spin and others don't.
 
Cleanprophet said:
There's no doubt that a legspinner's fingers are a major part of his ability to put revs on the ball. I'm not sure about the length of the fingers aspect of it. But the strength of the fingers is a big factor. I would imagine that longer fingers give more control and they would give more leverage on the ball, which would give the potential for revs. But, it is simply down to the strength of the fingers. Some people will have naturally stronger fingers but all spin bowlers will strengthen their fingers through doing a lot of bowling.

Revs on the ball is one thing. Spin off the pitch is another. The spin off the pitch relies on factors in control of the bowler and some out of the control of the bowler. The pitch is, of course, the key part of how much spin there is. If you used to bowl on particularly spin friendly pitches, then you would get spin with minimal revs. Equally, if you land the ball on the seam, you will get more grip off the pitch too. You can get a spinner who puts lots of revs on the ball but hardly ever lands the ball on the seam and you can get one who puts fewer revs but always lands the ball on the seam. The latter would probably get as much spin, if not more by simply landing the ball on the seam. However, bowling with a consistent seam position has its drawbacks. At an advanced level, the batter will read what the ball is doing by watching the seam. Also, there will be a consistency of spin which a decent batter will play for. Bowlers like Brad Hogg almost always scramble the seam. It makes it impossible to read the ball from the seam and it also means an inconsistency in how the ball reacts off the pitch. If the ball lands off the seam, it will grip less and skid on more. I've faced an off-spinner who often bowls a ball that is released slightly differently so that it lands on the smooth side of the ball. It shoots on and is a very awkward ball to face. You can pick it if you watch it closely. But you can achieve that by simply bowling with a scrambled seam. A lot of spin bowlers bowl with a scrambled seam, don't realise it and get confused why some balls spin and others don't.
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Thanks for the insight. I'm a pretty bad batsmen, I willingly bat last at the nets. By the time i come on all my team mates who are in their late 20s and earlu 30s are tired so most of theme switch to Off spin bowling. I used to hate facing spin because it requires lot of footworks and wrist work. After facing lot off break bowlers and learning how seam affects spin, drift and dip I have become a good player of spin. Even if I don't play a particular ball well I'll know exactly where the ball will land and how much it will turn. Does scrambled seam dip more ? If yes how much compared to a Top-spin leg break ? I have very short, skinny fingers and I always find it difficult to grip when attempting to scramble the seem. I adjust the amount of turn I get by simply pointing the seam either towards the batsmen or away towards slips, gully and etc. Here comes the issue, when I bowl with the seam pointing towards 1st slip or in between 1st and WK, the ball dips more, which i totally understand. When I bowl with the seam facing towards third man, or more across the ball drifts in towards the righty much more than I wanted and turns big. My question is, is it normal to spin big with ball also drifting big or is there away to make the ball not drift but get big turn ?
 
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