Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Four)

Top Contributors
Thanks for all the positive comments. Ive been working very hard on my action and bowling a lot of hours so its satisfying to see the improvement.
Putting the target up to 9feet is helping with dropping short.
Macca we don't get to play on turf in our league which is a shame. The last time I played on turf was over in England in 2005 so Ive had no experience bowling leggies on turf.
I agree it doesn't look good bouncing the ball, its a bad habit Ive developed. I even bounced it when I bowled in a game!!
I find I don't steady myself enough at times and have to slow myself down . Well spotted
Its funny you mention my practised action because I reckon I probably bowled more overs as a kid than just about anyone going around. My summers were spent bowling endless overs at a single stump in the backyard. I once bowled 50 overs in one session when I was about 10 and hit the stump 49times. I was dissappointed I didnt get 50. I was pretty quick when I was young and now I look back and regret that I had no real coaching at all as a junior. My old man new nothing about cricket and junior coaches were more child minders than coaches. The last year is the first time Ive looked at technique with my bowling.
I wish I had started out as a legspinner and practiced as much as a did when I was young.

A few things I have been doing recently that have helped my action is keep side on til my front foot lands. Previously I was opening up my hips before the foot landed. Also Im not stepping across my self as much. Lastly the thing that has improved my action the most is posture, standing tall through the whole action. Keeping the left shoulder high and not dropping it when the arm comes down and tucks into the ribs. This automatically got me up onto my toes and I felt a marked difference in the power I get pivoting. I still have the problem of racing ahead with the right arm at times but its not as bad as it was.
 
Antipodean said:
I've finally got around to uploading a video of my action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsTVI7cEI28

Have a look and see what you think of it.
Click to expand...

Did changing your wrist position get any results with getting more turn? I'll let others comment on your action as I'm not really qualified although I might chip in with some suggestions from my own experiences that may or may not work. Your action looks better than mine when I started.
 
Yeah, tried out a few of the suggestions. Tried to get the hips to drive through and get the arm down a little bit. Also, tried a slight change in wrist position and got some really good results. Went from not turning it at all tonight at the nets to getting it spinning quite sharply.

Also, had my first go at bowling the flipper tonight. One out of the ten I bowled came out alright (line and length, and with the audible finger click) and I can really see the value of mastering this delivery. Stayed nice and low and crashed into middle stump about 3/4's of the way up.

Long way to go but I'm feeling pretty optimistic after tonight's session. Thanks for all the suggestions guys.
 
Antipodean said:
Yeah, tried out a few of the suggestions. Tried to get the hips to drive through and get the arm down a little bit. Also, tried a slight change in wrist position and got some really good results. Went from not turning it at all tonight at the nets to getting it spinning quite sharply.

Also, had my first go at bowling the flipper tonight. One out of the ten I bowled came out alright (line and length, and with the audible finger click) and I can really see the value of mastering this delivery. Stayed nice and low and crashed into middle stump about 3/4's of the way up.

Long way to go but I'm feeling pretty optimistic after tonight's session. Thanks for all the suggestions guys.
Click to expand...

Good to see your getting some turn. Its funny how often our perception and the actual reality of what the wrist is doing can be so different. Go to the extremes of what your wrist can do and you may see some really odd results.
I have only ever played around with flippers a few times. I found them extremely difficult to bowl and put it in the too hard basket as I don't think I'll ever be able to land it consistently. If you can get it though go for it!
My main variation is the backspinner. I can bowl it more accurately although its not as good as a flipper but is still a good ball.
 
the flipper spin isnt so hard as the accuracy of the delivery. mine swing round corners, so even if you get the length right and release it on the right line, its a total lottery as to where it ends up when it gets to the batsman! they have a tendancy to start out on off stump and end up miles outside leg lol. adjust to outside off stump and then they have a tendancy to go straight and miss off by miles. so i dont put too much work into the flipper at the moment. i tend to use it occasionally in matches just on the off chance i land one right. if it goes wrong then so be it, but if it goes right then it might get me a wicket.

i occasionally bowl a bit of seam up in the nets just for fun, and to show the seamers how easy it is lol. with all my gym work ive suddenly found a ton of extra pace. even my leg breaks can be bowled very quickly now, but my seam deliveries are swinging big and decent pace. i might end up a medium-fast opener next season at this rate haha!!
 
chippyben said:
A few things I have been doing recently that have helped my action is keep side on til my front foot lands. Previously I was opening up my hips before the foot landed. Also Im not stepping across my self as much. Lastly the thing that has improved my action the most is posture, standing tall through the whole action. Keeping the left shoulder high and not dropping it when the arm comes down and tucks into the ribs. This automatically got me up onto my toes and I felt a marked difference in the power I get pivoting. I still have the problem of racing ahead with the right arm at times but its not as bad as it was.
Click to expand...

What you've said here are all really good and really important fundamentals.

Keeping side on till your front foot lands is good. It stops you from opening up, or in more complicated speak... from early trunk rotation. Actually a very classic alteration to fast bowler's, spinners, and even baseball pitcher's mechanics.

Posture is huge as well. Even if only to get the upper body upright so you work the shoulder's properly. You also get better control because you have a reference point of which you can tell yourself...oh that's what happened.... i leaned too much left, or too much forward.

The shoulder's together make a long lever to propel the ball. If you don't use your left shoulder then basically any small accidental movement puts the ball somewhere you don't want it. If you use it you efficiently use your wingspan put more power into the delivery.

OBSERVATION
Looking at the video I reckon a lot of your control comes down to two things.

First thing: I could immediately see a difference when you used your left shoulder and kept it up through the delivery stride. You got more turn and you dipped it more getting it to drop.

Second thing (and more interesting): Your off side deliveries. i reckon that on these deliveries you are trying to work your back leg more. As you try to work your back leg you then start to swing the back leg a bit. Not only do you swing but you are almost overeager and your heel leaves the ground a bit quick. This sets off a chain reaction where you have early trunk rotation.... and this is why I don't neccessarily agree with pivoting... this causes offside tendencies. At least when you bowl offside you'll know that you rotated your trunk too early.

So what you should do is what you said. Keeping side on until your front foot lands. What needs to be understood... for you new readers.... is that as weight shift occurs you need that back foot grounded. As Michael Slater talks about with batting -- your power comes from weight shift. That's "sort of" really all you're doing when you bowl side on--- shifting potential energy from your right leg to your left leg and then to your arm (which is why your right shoulder should be in line leg at follow through so the transfer of energy is straight). Keeping the right foot grounded gives max surface area in contact with the ground allowing you to push off stronger and also creates more frictional force keeping you steadier. Consider 1:03 - 1:33 (some nice deliveries!)-- it almost feels like you pound the ground especially your heel with your right foot. I can imagine old Batman POW BANG as that foot lands. Then the delivery directly after 1:33 you go and bowl wider of the crease == you sort of rush through and bowl it wide of off stump. You almost have to accentuate that landing of the right foot.... actually you might incorporate the use of your left arm to help time how long you stay on your right foot.

An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT1HhHntF2o Check out 2:40-2:50. Wide outside off stump because Warney hurries too much off his right foot. Compare to the beautiful deliveries at the beginning ...
 
someblokecalleddave said:
With the Flipper, just carry a ball around with you as much as you can - sitting watching tele etc and just keep clicking it between the fingers and you'll build up the strength in your forearm and hand to really get the revs going.
See this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvix9j7IPgU
Click to expand...

I was thinking about the flipper today and how I bowl it and maybe Im bowling it wrong or at least one of the more difficult ways. I bowl mine with palm facing 2 oclock, the batsman being at 12 oclock. The result being back spin with a bit of off spin too. How do you and Jim bowl it!! Its not really something Ive thought about much. I find I can flick it out of the fingers with good revs when just tossing it to myself.
 
doctortran said:
What you've said here are all really good and really important fundamentals.

Keeping side on till your front foot lands is good. It stops you from opening up, or in more complicated speak... from early trunk rotation. Actually a very classic alteration to fast bowler's, spinners, and even baseball pitcher's mechanics.

Posture is huge as well. Even if only to get the upper body upright so you work the shoulder's properly. You also get better control because you have a reference point of which you can tell yourself...oh that's what happened.... i leaned too much left, or too much forward.

The shoulder's together make a long lever to propel the ball. If you don't use your left shoulder then basically any small accidental movement puts the ball somewhere you don't want it. If you use it you efficiently use your wingspan put more power into the delivery.

OBSERVATION
Looking at the video I reckon a lot of your control comes down to two things.

First thing: I could immediately see a difference when you used your left shoulder and kept it up through the delivery stride. You got more turn and you dipped it more getting it to drop.

Second thing (and more interesting): Your off side deliveries. i reckon that on these deliveries you are trying to work your back leg more. As you try to work your back leg you then start to swing the back leg a bit. Not only do you swing but you are almost overeager and your heel leaves the ground a bit quick. This sets off a chain reaction where you have early trunk rotation.... and this is why I don't neccessarily agree with pivoting... this causes offside tendencies. At least when you bowl offside you'll know that you rotated your trunk too early.

So what you should do is what you said. Keeping side on until your front foot lands. What needs to be understood... for you new readers.... is that as weight shift occurs you need that back foot grounded. As Michael Slater talks about with batting -- your power comes from weight shift. That's "sort of" really all you're doing when you bowl side on--- shifting potential energy from your right leg to your left leg and then to your arm (which is why your right shoulder should be in line leg at follow through so the transfer of energy is straight). Keeping the right foot grounded gives max surface area in contact with the ground allowing you to push off stronger and also creates more frictional force keeping you steadier. Consider 1:03 - 1:33 (some nice deliveries!)-- it almost feels like you pound the ground especially your heel with your right foot. I can imagine old Batman POW BANG as that foot lands. Then the delivery directly after 1:33 you go and bowl wider of the crease == you sort of rush through and bowl it wide of off stump. You almost have to accentuate that landing of the right foot.... actually you might incorporate the use of your left arm to help time how long you stay on your right foot.

An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT1HhHntF2o Check out 2:40-2:50. Wide outside off stump because Warney hurries too much off his right foot. Compare to the beautiful deliveries at the beginning ...
Click to expand...

Thanks for looking at the video. Ive actually gone down the nets a couple of times to make another video for you to analyse but haven't really captured on film what I have been aiming for. I get one thing right and something else is wrong.
I remember quite a while ago you mentioned cues such as raising the bowling arm with the back leg together for instance to get good rhythm and Ive been working on that with my action. Ive been thinking more about my arms with these cues though to stop my right arm rushing ahead. I haven't really thought about my back leg with these cues.
I also hadnt realised my off side deliveries were a result of rushing through the action. Its funny that when the ryhthm is right everything turns and lands on the spot. Its just trying to understand what is going on when the rhythm is right so I can repeat it.
I did notice with my improved posture, keeping taller and side on for longer that when I get my arm too high and beyond the vertical I bowl down the leg side because my arm cannot physically come down straight and it circles inside out, like for an inswinger. It doesnt have to come much lower to fix it but I do lapse back occasionally.
I looked back at a few old videos and notcied acouple that looked good and saw that I was really using the leading arm and shoulder and have been making a conscious effort to use this arm as a sort of guide to my timing of the rest of the action. It also feels like I get more leverage or a bigger wingspan as you put it.
I remember you banging on about posture and couldnt really understand what I was doing wrong until one day it dawned on me and like magic it made a huge difference It got me up on my toes and also straightening the left leg which you pointed out in your last analysis. This one thing without any conscious effort fixed 2 things at once and provided a lot more power.
Id been artificially trying to throw myself forward and straighten the left leg before this without any real success.
Ill get a video up soon from behind and side on and get working on the timing off my back foot.
Thank you
 
chippyben said:
I was thinking about the flipper today and how I bowl it and maybe Im bowling it wrong or at least one of the more difficult ways. I bowl mine with palm facing 2 oclock, the batsman being at 12 oclock. The result being back spin with a bit of off spin too. How do you and Jim bowl it!! Its not really something Ive thought about much. I find I can flick it out of the fingers with good revs when just tossing it to myself.
Click to expand...

mine is bowled probably about the same, its hard to interpret angles though. basically the back of my hand faces my face at the point of release, mine has a tendancy to have a little off spin on it usually, although i can bowl it with some leg spin as well, it varies. it swings like mad though. the seam is pointed anywhere from about 10 degrees either side of straight. ive got a video of mine here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu9nZq6gHok

its wildly inaccurate, which is a fairly common trait of my flipper. i can bowl it outside off stump or outside leg stump, but rarely on the stumps. simply because it swings so much! you can pretty much see in the video it just swings to the leg side all the way. you can also see how much it carries in flight though because that ball should have dropped a lot sooner. its nowhere near as fast as it looks from trajectory alone when it leaves the hand.

the off spin flipper seam is angled at about 30 degrees to the off side, pointed at about 3rd slip basically. sometimes a bit finer if i dont get it completely right. its unreliable for turn though at present as i dont release the seam consistently enough, sometimes the ball angles back and misses the seam. i reckon now that my action is more consistent and better though that it might start to work more reliably. if it does then i wont need to worry about ever having a wrong'un, and i can save myself the drama of googly syndrome lol.
 
chippyben said:
I was thinking about the flipper today and how I bowl it and maybe Im bowling it wrong or at least one of the more difficult ways. I bowl mine with palm facing 2 oclock, the batsman being at 12 oclock. The result being back spin with a bit of off spin too. How do you and Jim bowl it!! Its not really something Ive thought about much. I find I can flick it out of the fingers with good revs when just tossing it to myself.
Click to expand...

With the thumb facing the batsman - back of the hand facing me - seam up so it swings. (Conventional method) is probably the best to start out with, but how you're doing it sounds quite interesting.
 
We have trained harder and better this week because of the holidays. A wicket or two would be good reward tomorrow.

Spent a bit of time trying for max revs early in week and having a bit of fun trying to bowl the biggest legspinners he could, even mucked around with his flipper a bit. Then spent last couple of days at target practise. Then he had good long bowl tonight at his team mates, so he is right to go tomorrow.

We have played this team tomorrow for 3 seasons now and they are not that good so our kids should win.
 
macca said:
We have trained harder and better this week because of the holidays. A wicket or two would be good reward tomorrow.

Spent a bit of time trying for max revs early in week and having a bit of fun trying to bowl the biggest legspinners he could, even mucked around with his flipper a bit. Then spent last couple of days at target practise. Then he had good long bowl tonight at his team mates, so he is right to go tomorrow.

We have played this team tomorrow for 3 seasons now and they are not that good so our kids should win.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good training programme, a bit of fun early in the week then the serious stuff before the match.
I had a massive session this afternoon. About 2.5 hours. About an hour in things really clicked and so I just stayed and tried to repeat it over and over so I wouldn't forget what I was doing. Going to be sore tommorrow for the game but hopefully it'll be worth it.
We made 153 last week in pretty difficult conditions and had them 4/50 at stumps so its going to be tight for first innings points. I managed 2 wickets with a pretty ropey performance bowling pace. Funny how it works out. Ive bowled brilliantly a few times this year for nothing so Im not going to complain.
 
chippyben said:
We made 153 last week in pretty difficult conditions and had them 4/50 at stumps so its going to be tight for first innings points.
Click to expand...

Good luck with that mate. If they get away from yous'e it might end up like the national side, if all else fails who you gonna call ?.... Legspinner. Hey, that's you!
 
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