Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

ive started naming my youtube videos as leg spin instead of wrist spin as well. most people do seem to refer to it as leg spin, most of us included.

im going to try and get a practice in tomorrow morning, weather pending. its supposed to be sunny all morning, but cold. even if i can get a couple of hours in though then its better than nothing. i want to try and make the additional changes to my action that ive figured out, namely getting my front arm much higher, transferring even more weight, getting more side on, and directing my feet and hips better. plus trying to rotate over my shoulders, rather than around so much.

the end goal for tomorrow is to have video that looks identical to Shane Warne, not just similar. and see if that is a positive step or not. if it doesnt work out i can always revert back to where i am now. but at present i fear my accuracy is never going to improve to where i want it, no matter how much i practice, so something has to change in my technique.

I've worked on my rotation today Wrist Spin Bowling and that seems to have gone well in the first instance. I seem to have quite easily reduced the rotation round the static foot down to about 180 degrees and if anything it seems to have improved my accuracy. It was especially noticeable with both my Flippers and today I was getting the wrong un working as well which hasn't happened in the last few sessions.

I might start bowling down the Leg side and setting an extra set of stumps in front of the wicket stumps to represent a batsman so that I have to get round the 'Batsman stumps' with some turn in order to hit the stumps. It's something I've done before years ago.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i was in your neck of the woods today Dave, but it didnt really occur to me until this evening. i was in Basildon visiting a supplier around lunchtime. if id given it more thought i could have seen if you were around for a bowling session lol. chances are il be there again at some point in the near future, so il let you know next time.

 

[Spiderlounge]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

After the discussion the other day about that lousy Cricinfo article on wrist-spin I've had a bash at explaining the Magnus effect and its implications for wrist spinners (Some of it's quite technical, some bits may be a little patronising, and the whole thing's quite lengthy I'm afraid). Hope you all find it interesting/useful, and let me know if there's anything that's obviously missing and/or wrong.

I'm afraid I'm in the land that broadband forgot next week, so I won't be about on here...

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

My son just put in his best bowling performance this morning. 5 overs on the trot, 3 maidens, 2 wickets for 4 runs. Two wicket maidens. In his comp, u/12, 5 is the max overs.

Wicket with his first ball today. That is the 2nd time hes struck with his first ball this year and 3rd if you include the inter school comp he played in. That shows he is on target from ball one. His first few balls are usually dot balls.

He had 4 catches dropped off his bowling today. 2 by the reserve wicket keeper. Nearly bowled a couple of them as well. He could have got a "michelle" (fife fer) with a bit of luck. His first wicket came from a topspinner. Caught and bowled. About 4 kids ran in to try and catch it and I was sure he would drop it. It went so high. But he took a good catch. Last thing i told him this morning was " get ready for the caught and bowled ". His second wicket was a catch at short leg.

The runs off him came from mis hits. After the game the opposition coach and players were really praising him up as the best leggie they have seen in the comp. "Warnesque" was his word for it. They won the game so they could afford to be gracious to us losers He was getting a few "bowled shane" stuff and the other coach said his mimicry of warnes action was unbelievable.

I was pretty sure he was going to have a good day. We bowled 6 overs on the game pitch the night before and he was spinning ,and bouncing it big time. Perfect conditions for legspin. Fairly hot but a nice sea breeze to bowl into. I could see his loop and drop from my vantage point. A couple of his deliveries spun from well outside leg to just outside off. He only underpitched once and that resulted in a dropped catch.

He doesn't watch much cricket on tv but we watched a bit of steve smiths one day debut last night. He went for plenty, around 8 an over against the windies. Still he got a couple of wickets in classic legspin dismissals and it was just good to have someone for the kids to see bowl the stuff. I noticed my son was spinning the ball hard , hand to hand, this morning during his spell before he came into bowl. That was straight off the tv from last night copying what smith was doing.

I diagnosed smiths problem last night. He sacrificed revs for accuracy. And ended up too predictable. He was nervous I would say, he fluffed the only flipper i saw him try. He bowled mainly middle to off stump line. A bit straight but when he did give it a rip he got some nice drift. So the second last thing i told my son this morning was "dont forget to give it a rip"

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i was in your neck of the woods today Dave, but it didnt really occur to me until this evening. i was in Basildon visiting a supplier around lunchtime. if id given it more thought i could have seen if you were around for a bowling session lol. chances are il be there again at some point in the near future, so il let you know next time.

If you pair get together in the same space the authorities may have to issue a Legspin Nerd Alert

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

After the discussion the other day about that lousy Cricinfo article on wrist-spin I've had a bash at explaining the Magnus effect and its implications for wrist spinners (Some of it's quite technical, some bits may be a little patronising, and the whole thing's quite lengthy I'm afraid). Hope you all find it interesting/useful, and let me know if there's anything that's obviously missing and/or wrong.

I'm afraid I'm in the land that broadband forgot next week, so I won't be about on here...

I am checking your work out right now. It is fantastic. I am only up to newton and the tennis observation. Gotta go and finish reading it now.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i was in your neck of the woods today Dave, but it didnt really occur to me until this evening. i was in Basildon visiting a supplier around lunchtime. if id given it more thought i could have seen if you were around for a bowling session lol. chances are il be there again at some point in the near future, so il let you know next time.

Oh man - yeah, I'd have been bang up for that and I'm off work as it's half term and I was mooching around doing nothing in particular!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Oh man - yeah, I'd have been bang up for that and I'm off work as it's half term and I was mooching around doing nothing in particular!

damn, i didnt even think about it really. it was only when i was leaving that i thought to myself i wonder if Basildon is anywhere near Dave, then when i checked later i saw you live there! ah well, il remember next time.

this post is going to be a long one, but probably worth a read as ive made some interesting technique discoveries today that might be relevant to others.

i had a bowl today, a pretty mammoth session to be fair, nearly 4 hours. i set the camera running in real time HD mode from the start, trying to record my consistency. but i was also messing with my action, trying to copy Warne. and all i managed to record was 90% bad deliveries. not at all constructive.

so then the battery ran out after about 90 mins, but i managed to record some speed checks, and also some footage i needed to show Liz to see if she can figure out why my left shin is always painful. but nothing worth anyone else seeing really. it was as bad as ive bowled since those first 2 indoor net weeks.

but at the same time, i was making huge changes to my action. i tried a higher front arm, im not convinced it matters at all (i rotate exactly the same, the higher arm just screws up my weight transfer). i tried side on and that was a disaster. thats now the 3rd time ive tried it, and its never shown any promise. i think im just a front-on bowler, time to live with it and improve what ive got, i cant see it changing for the better unless i devote a long time to it, and id rather just get on with it to be honest. what ive got works brilliantly, when i get it right. so im sure i can figure out consistency with practice. the only positive i have gained from copying Warne is that if i tuck my leading arm into my hip before rotating, i deliver from a more upright front leg (weight further forwards), and rotate later (much like Warne), and the result is the biggest turn ive ever achieved, on a VERY consistent basis. more on that later though.

so anyway, i was thorougly dejected, at that point id normally have left, called it a bad practice, and quit before it got any worse. for whatever reason today i decided i wasnt completely done yet. and since the camera was now off i felt less pressure to bowl good deliveries. about 20 mins later i got one to absolutely rip, and made a very interesting discovery.

i was counting my 3 approach steps trying to find some rhythm, "1, 2, 3", then i get into my delivery stride, then deliver and rotate. for whatever reason i decided to count the delivery stride as "4", and then think about the rotation (i wasnt rotating enough hence trying to think about it to encourage myself to do it). counting and rhythm are easily overlooked, but somehow counting that 4th step completely transformed my day! i was counting "1, 2, 3, 4, rotate", and that was timing the rotation to perfection. ive always been a little early with it compared to Shane Warne, and ive now sussed out how his action works and why it is so consistent. it was a little disjointed at times because i was overthinking the rotation too much, and i was bowling slower than i have been (i clocked one delivery using slow-motion from the side at under 30mph at release!!! i clocked the next at 42mph on a higher effort ball though. my stock speed today was probably mid 30's), but the ball was doing all sorts.

if i time my rotation correctly, then the result is excellent line and length. i had a loop of rope positioned with square corners so that it made a rectangle that extended from inline with off stump, to 6" outside leg stump, started 3 yards from the stumps, and extended to about 5 yards from the stumps. and i was landing inside that box 80% of the time. 15% of the ones that didnt just landed short (within a yard) or wide (within 6"), and the other 5% were bad ones. thats as good as my consistency has ever been.

normally, my turn would have about 20-40% consistency over a long period (2+ hours in this case). i reckon it was more like 15% huge turners (2 feet+), 35% medium turners (enough to pitch on middle/leg and beat the outside edge), 25% small turners, and the rest just straight on. it was excellent.

i was hitting the stumps about 10% of the time, missing off stump either through height or width by 1-2 inches about 50% of the time, past leg stump maybe 20% of the time, the rest went over the top. generally just very good bowling. if id done the same thing at nets id have taken wickets every few balls.

also, i was achieving this with all 12 balls, of which only 2 are soft leather (including my Kookaburra, which is the best ball ever), 1 is a shiny ball thats been beaten up, and the other 9 are all shiny with rubbish seams. 1 of them is a brand spanking new Duke that you can see your reflection in. all of them were turning big at some point or another!! including the Duke.

add into this equation the occasional delivery where i not only managed to hook up the timing of the rotation, but also managed to throw in the Shane Warne high-arm tuck-to-rotation manouvere, and they were absolutely ripping.

for the 4th session in a row i bowled my "best delivery ever". this one was really something special though. i was stunned by it. it was using the full Shane Warne rotation method which i hooked up, and it was also a quicker delivery with monster revs. it pitched literally 3 feet outside leg stump, having drifted a good foot, i felt it rip when it left my hand, but i honestly thought id bowled a bad one down leg side. it pitched on a full length, maybe 3 yards from the stumps (inline with where my rope rectangle was, but it landed well outside of it), PERFECT driving length, but i think 90% of batsmen would have either offered a tentative upright sweep at it and probably missed it because it drifted like mad, or theyd have just left it or not been able to get bat on it quickly enough. given the line outside leg. anyway, it pitches with overspin, rips off the pitch, seemingly gains a ton of pace and smashes leg stump an inch from the top. im stood there open mouthed wondering what the hell just happened, and devastated that the camera is in the car with a flat battery!!! i have 99% confidence that if there had been a batsman in the nets, regardless of ability (it could have been Ricky Ponting for all intents and purposes), theyd have been bowled behind their legs for sure. and to make it even more satisfying, it was a shiny ball and not my Kookaburra (which is much easy to turn), the weather was again pretty chilly (about 4 degs) and the net surface very damp, and im in nets in February and not on a 4-way old wicket in August!! it isnt just the fact that it turned a good 3 feet that impressed me so much, ive turned balls much further, its the fact that it did it over about 3 yards, and still hit the stumps!! normally when i pitch it that full it will turn nowhere near enough and also bounce over the top, i generally only hit the stumps from outside leg on 4+ yard length, and usually hit off or middle stump. this one was just special.

from then on i was bowling potential wicket balls every 3 or 4 deliveries. until the last few overs when i started to go off the boil a bit. so i called it a day.

i cant wait until Monday evening for indoor nets now though!!!

i messed around with the zooter (what i used to call a slider) for an over or 2, and the flipper. i bowled one zooter so far round the loop that it was a backspun googly!! it turned a good foot, enough to pitch on off stump and miss leg. i couldnt repeat it though. but i got a few to stay really low. my flipper is crap, im discarding it for now. my off-spinning flipper is just an off-break and too easy to pick, so im discarding that as well. for now all ive got is a leg break and a zooter. but to be fair, if i can continue to develop the leg break at the current rate, im not going to need variations this season.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

but to be fair, if i can continue to develop the leg break at the current rate, im not going to need variations this season.

Thats right I reckon. How many overs are you hoping to get each game do you think?

Do you jag the occassional topspinner by accident? Do you bowl an arm ball or some other straight ball? Anyway the legbreak is your bread and butter delivery and you want to be getting most of your wickets with it anyway. That and a zooter should do you just fine.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Thats right I reckon. How many overs are you hoping to get each game do you think?

Do you jag the occassional topspinner by accident? Do you bowl an arm ball or some other straight ball? Anyway the legbreak is your bread and butter delivery and you want to be getting most of your wickets with it anyway. That and a zooter should do you just fine.

i dont have a top spinner at all, i can bowl a straight one if i need to (by angling the seam or whatever), the zooter is my only straight break though. my natural variation means there is at least one that doesnt turn per over though, and i can vary my pace without changing my action just by altering how fast i run up. ok, so the batsman will easily see it, but that doesnt make it any easier to play against. batsmen need rhythm the same as bowlers, so if youre changing the speed by 5mph every ball then thats going to be hard to face. my speed can probably vary anywhere between 35-55mph as well! i need to get some speed shots of my full on effort ball, i struggle to believe its under 50mph, given that the average speed on video from hand to pitch is almost 40mph! i clocked my fastest attempt (of 2) at 42mph today (average speed over the first 4 yards), but ive bowled way faster in the past. my battery was almost dead, so i only had time for 2 attempts.

in terms of overs, nobody really gets more than 6, and 8 is the maximum allowed i think. so ive got to aim to get 6-8 overs per game by taking wickets. if im not getting overs then its because im not getting wickets, so the 2 goals are basically the same. my strike rate last season was 42 (which in professional terms would be good, but at club level when you only get 24-30 balls a game its pretty weak!), this season it needs to be single figures. my start-of-season goals which i set after last season were to have a strike rate <20, but im changing that to <10 now. i want my average <20 as well, and a minimum of 2 wickets per game on average. 18 games in a league season would mean at least 36 wickets. i want to break the record though of 54, which would mean averaging more than 3 per game!! i also want at least one five-fer.

your son sounds like he had an absolute blinder though. sounds like he could have bowled the entire team out if he had a bit more luck lol. its got to suck at his age level when fielders and wicket keepers are dropping that many catches though. hes still got very real chances of professional cricket i should think? those stats are important, and 5-4 would raise anyones eyebrows!! not that 2-4 off 5 overs doesnt though!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i dont have a top spinner at all, i can bowl a straight one if i need to (by angling the seam or whatever), the zooter is my only straight break though. my natural variation means there is at least one that doesnt turn per over though, and i can vary my pace without changing my action just by altering how fast i run up. ok, so the batsman will easily see it, but that doesnt make it any easier to play against. batsmen need rhythm the same as bowlers, so if youre changing the speed by 5mph every ball then thats going to be hard to face. my speed can probably vary anywhere between 35-55mph as well! i need to get some speed shots of my full on effort ball, i struggle to believe its under 50mph, given that the average speed on video from hand to pitch is almost 40mph!

in terms of overs, nobody really gets more than 6, and 8 is the maximum. so ive got to aim to get 6-8 overs per game by taking wickets. if im not getting overs then its because im not getting wickets, so the 2 goals are basically the same. my strike rate last season was 42 (which in professional terms would be good, but at club level when you only get 24-30 balls a game its pretty weak!), this season it needs to be single figures.

your son sounds like he had an absolute blinder though. sounds like he could have bowled the entire team out if he had a bit more luck lol. its got to suck at his age level when fielders and wicket keepers are dropping that many catches though. hes still got very real chances of professional cricket i should think? those stats are important, and 5-4 would raise anyones eyebrows!! not that 2-4 off 5 overs doesnt though!

Yeah the one that does not turn from not hitting the seam or whatever other reason is a good straight one anyway. Bit like how Swann operates.

I have been really pleased how my son is starting his bowling spells. Like how Jenner says you have to start off and finish tight. Philpott says you should be thinking of dot balls and bowling a maiden rather than taking 3 wickets in that first over. Philpott was conservative but there is a lot in what he says there. My kid has started with wicket maidens two weeks in a row. Yesterday he had the opposition spellbound. The scorers would have loved him 27 dot balls out of 30.

His stats as they appear on the association website have him running 6th out of 90 bowlers in his comp. He was 21st last week so that spell yesterday did his figures good. 3rd is the highest he has ever got in 4 years and that was before xmas. Yesterday got his economy rate below 4 an over as well.

I put a lot of it down to following this thread and working on the things we talk about here, thing like where to bowl to lefthanders and stuff like that.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

Yeah the one that does not turn from not hitting the seam or whatever other reason is a good straight one anyway. Bit like how Swann operates.

I have been really pleased how my son is starting his bowling spells. Like how Jenner says you have to start off and finish tight. Philpott says you should be thinking of dot balls and bowling a maiden rather than taking 3 wickets in that first over. Philpott was conservative but there is a lot in what he says there. My kid has started with wicket maidens two weeks in a row. Yesterday he had the opposition spellbound. The scorers would have loved him 27 dot balls out of 30.

His stats as they appear on the association website have him running 6th out of 90 bowlers in his comp. He was 21st last week so that spell yesterday did his figures good. 3rd is the highest he has ever got in 4 years and that was before xmas. Yesterday got his economy rate below 4 an over as well.

I put a lot of it down to following this thread and working on the things we talk about here, thing like where to bowl to lefthanders and stuff like that.

That's good to hear, I always think of you as being our resident expert Macca, so it feels kind of cool that you're saying that you learn stuff from all of our trials and tribulations.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

After the discussion the other day about that lousy Cricinfo article on wrist-spin I've had a bash at explaining the Magnus effect and its implications for wrist spinners (Some of it's quite technical, some bits may be a little patronising, and the whole thing's quite lengthy I'm afraid). Hope you all find it interesting/useful, and let me know if there's anything that's obviously missing and/or wrong.

I'm afraid I'm in the land that broadband forgot next week, so I won't be about on here...

Strewth with a CSE fail in maths and only recently gaining a level 2 qualification in maths I'd need to read that through about 8 or 9 times before I could get any sense of what you're on about there. But, what I did read did seem to make sense and it'll be interesting to see if anyone with a better understanding of the magnus effect and knowledge of spin-bowling makes of it? You should leave the comments section open for people to make comments and check to see if it becomes the most viewed link on google. I'm going to check now.....

 

[strof]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

The way I overcame this problem was as follows.

No.1 - I stopped bowling in the manner that felt as though it should produce a Leg Break but always produced the googly.
No. 2 - Using the usual leg break grip 2 up 2 down finger configuration I stopped cocking the wrist and started bowling with a fairly vertical arm making sure that when the ball left the hand it did so primarily off the 3rd (Spinning) finger.
No. 3 - I focussed on making sure that the underside of the wrist as I released the ball was facing the batsman. It was this bit that felt wholly un-natural having bowled Googlies for more than 18 months, I can't impress on you how not right it felt because of the fact that my brain had been totally re-programmed so that the googly felt correct.
No. 4 - I eventually found turning the wrist even further so that it almost feels like you're producing a karate chop action then got the ball to turn more off the wicket.

I started this process in Sept 2008 and Easter 2009 with many hours persevering with this I got my wrist to come round and produce a leg break. I gave up on trying to hit the stumps. all I wanted was that after throwing my bucket of 18 balls towards the stumps most of them ended up on the Off-side behind the stumps, this started to happen 2 months after giving up bowling in the way I had been for the previous 18 months.

Drop all attempts at any of the other variations, just focus on the Leg Break and I reckon the key to it is that under-side of the wrist towards the batsman and the Karate chop position if that doesn't work.

One last thing - I still bowl with an action that feels to me like my wrist and hand come over and release the ball in the karate chop position - I don't know if in reality it does, so be wary of the fact that you might be telling him 'Think Karate Chop' and seeing a his hand coming through correctly - because like me it may feel to him that it's massively 'Karate Chop'. Be aware it might change quick or it might take months. A bloke who asked me about this on youtube sorted his in a matter of a week or so having bowled googly's for years. Good luck and keep in touch with the forum.

well we spent a couple of hours on friday night in the college car park. young strof after the first hour of trying and trying and becoming frustrated was able to bowl a few leg spinners and get his head around the change of action . it was really an up and down couple of hours as he insisted on trying a couple of googlies (against the advice on here and he found out he could not bowl one at first though this came right at the end) i managed to get him to agree to a ratio of 12-1 things seemed good. my point is we were using a reader wind ball on a newly laid tarmac surface.
today he tried with a corker on a damp cricket track and got nowhere no bounce or spin however the wind ball was still behaving as normal .is the lack of activity from the corker due to lack of grip on the surface and would the same apply on a damp turf wicket?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

well we spent a couple of hours on friday night in the college car park. young strof after the first hour of trying and trying and becoming frustrated was able to bowl a few leg spinners and get his head around the change of action . it was really an up and down couple of hours as he insisted on trying a couple of googlies (against the advice on here and he found out he could not bowl one at first though this came right at the end) i managed to get him to agree to a ratio of 12-1 things seemed good. my point is we were using a reader wind ball on a newly laid tarmac surface.
today he tried with a corker on a damp cricket track and got nowhere no bounce or spin however the wind ball was still behaving as normal .is the lack of activity from the corker due to lack of grip on the surface and would the same apply on a damp turf wicket?

confidence plays a huge part if you are trying to correct something. even over the course of an hour or so today, i went from totally frustrated to 100% confident and ready to take on the world, just based on getting the ball to turn or not. so in this situation, your best bet is to get yourself a nice soft ball (Kookaburra), beat it up a bit with a bat so its even softer and grippier, and bowl on the grippiest surface you can find! even if the surface hugely exaggerates turn, that will breed confidence, and then the rest snaps into place more easily.

theres nothing worse than bowling perfect leg breaks on a slick surface, expecting them to turn huge, and nothing happening at the other end.

another important aspect relating to that is for you to lay a role of wicket keeper, and really observe the ball in flight and off the pitch. its hard enough to land the ball on the seam consistently as it is. if youre overcoming googly syndrome then its even harder, because finding the rhythm for leg breaks may not come so easily. and as the bowler its hard to see the seam in detail that far down the pitch (without video), having someone at the other end can be helpful. you cant make adjustments unless you can identify the specific problems.

those are just a few bits of advice id give. soft grippy balls on hard grippy wickets are definitely the best way to boost confidence though, and in this case exaggerated turn and bounce will also show whether the ball is landing correctly.

 

[strof]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

confidence plays a huge part if you are trying to correct something. even over the course of an hour or so today, i went from totally frustrated to 100% confident and ready to take on the world, just based on getting the ball to turn or not. so in this situation, your best bet is to get yourself a nice soft ball (Kookaburra), beat it up a bit with a bat so its even softer and grippier, and bowl on the grippiest surface you can find! even if the surface hugely exaggerates turn, that will breed confidence, and then the rest snaps into place more easily.

theres nothing worse than bowling perfect leg breaks on a slick surface, expecting them to turn huge, and nothing happening at the other end.

another important aspect relating to that is for you to lay a role of wicket keeper, and really observe the ball in flight and off the pitch. its hard enough to land the ball on the seam consistently as it is. if youre overcoming googly syndrome then its even harder, because finding the rhythm for leg breaks may not come so easily. and as the bowler its hard to see the seam in detail that far down the pitch (without video), having someone at the other end can be helpful. you cant make adjustments unless you can identify the specific problems.

those are just a few bits of advice id give. soft grippy balls on hard grippy wickets are definitely the best way to boost confidence though, and in this case exaggerated turn and bounce will also show whether the ball is landing correctly.

cheers jim i meant to say it was an artificial wicket we were using today. we went back to the philpott method of underarm and i could see it spinning in the air but again nothing off the pitch. excellent point about the confdence aspect .
on a slightly different point what made underwood (off spinner i think) so deadly on the uncovered wickets of yesteryear?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i was bored this evening, nowhere to be and nothing on the telly, so i was browsing YouTube, and noticed the Shane Warne interview with Parkinson which i had never bothered to watch, thinking it would be about his personal life and not so much about cricket. so i watched it anyway, its 90 mins long, but its mostly about cricket. and there was some really useful stuff in there!! worth a watch for anyone on this thread for sure.

its amazing he made it as far as he did in cricket really. he didnt even want to play cricket, and didnt even take it seriously until AFTER he played at international level (its incredible that anyone could get a call up in that situation, basically unproven at state level). how many sportsman can you say that about? he got multiple second chances before he made them count, and then the rest is history. its amazing that someone can basically go from not even playing cricket more than just messing around in the back yard, to international superstar in basically 3-4 years. by the sounds of it he was a big spinner of the ball but lacking in accuracy and consistency. he failed to make it in Aussie Rules, so he reverted to cricket, and then it took him a couple of years to turn his bowling talent into something useful. in some ways i can draw parralels with my own efforts. i can turn it huge, on occasion, but lack the consistency. however im a lot more dedicated to it than Warne was in those early days, ive also got the benefit of being older and more physically developed (probably not as strong though to be fair, but not growing either so no physical changes messing with my technique). so there in theory is no reason why i cant be an absolute top club leg spinner if i really dedicate myself to it. to all intents and purposes, at 25 im too old to be thinking beyond amateur cricket. the selection system in the UK has a reputation for being incredibly closed off, even to promising young players. but id like to think that with dedication and a bit of luck i can still get to first division club level and be able to hold my own. thats got to be the aim. anything beyond that would be a bonus. i wish id taken up leg spin when i was a kid though. its impossible to tell what could have been, i was nowhere near the same body build as i am now (im still not particularly big built, but i was 6'+ and about 8 stone when i was younger lol), probably nowhere near the same spinning ability if i had tried it. but there would have been the possibility to take my cricket further.

i was too busy playing football though! for a team that used to finish 2nd from bottom in the lowest division every season, and we were lucky to win any games apart from the home and away against the bottom club lol. i think my efforts and goals were slightly misguided. on the other hand my bowling might be on the verge of getting as good as its ever going to be. in which case il just be a 2nd XI (or thereabouts) league player. but as long as its enjoyable im not really fussed. i just like to set myself big targets so that ive always got something distant to aim at.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

cheers jim i meant to say it was an artificial wicket we were using today. we went back to the philpott method of underarm and i could see it spinning in the air but again nothing off the pitch. excellent point about the confdence aspect .
on a slightly different point what made underwood (off spinner i think) so deadly on the uncovered wickets of yesteryear?

artificial wickets are my favourite surface. the older and more worn out the better. my favourite net location is a slab of concrete with a 20 year old layer of thin worn out carpet on it. it can be tough to generate turn sometimes, you are really reliant on the seam hitting ground, but when it does it will turn and bounce big.

if the ball isnt turning underarm then stick at that for now. it absolutely has to do something underarm, otherwise youll always be struggling overarm. just start out underarm over about 6 yards, then gradually increase it, get the hand working how it needs to. then move it roundarm, and then overarm. the roundarm stage is optional, i tried it and i couldnt bowl like that, so it didnt help. underarm is always helpful though. as is bowling overarm at a wall from about 6 yards away, because you can see what the ball does off the wall, and its easier to make adjustments.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

i was bored this evening, nowhere to be and nothing on the telly, so i was browsing YouTube, and noticed the Shane Warne interview with Parkinson which i had never bothered to watch, thinking it would be about his personal life and not so much about cricket. so i watched it anyway, its 90 mins long, but its mostly about cricket. and there was some really useful stuff in there!! worth a watch for anyone on this thread for sure.

its amazing he made it as far as he did in cricket really. he didnt even want to play cricket, and didnt even take it seriously until AFTER he played at international level (its incredible that anyone could get a call up in that situation, basically unproven at state level). how many sportsman can you say that about? he got multiple second chances before he made them count, and then the rest is history. its amazing that someone can basically go from not even playing cricket more than just messing around in the back yard, to international superstar in basically 3-4 years. by the sounds of it he was a big spinner of the ball but lacking in accuracy and consistency. he failed to make it in Aussie Rules, so he reverted to cricket, and then it took him a couple of years to turn his bowling talent into something useful. in some ways i can draw parralels with my own efforts. i can turn it huge, on occasion, but lack the consistency. however im a lot more dedicated to it than Warne was in those early days, ive also got the benefit of being older and more physically developed (probably not as strong though to be fair, but not growing either so no physical changes messing with my technique). so there in theory is no reason why i cant be an absolute top club leg spinner if i really dedicate myself to it. to all intents and purposes, at 25 im too old to be thinking beyond amateur cricket. the selection system in the UK has a reputation for being incredibly closed off, even to promising young players. but id like to think that with dedication and a bit of luck i can still get to first division club level and be able to hold my own. thats got to be the aim. anything beyond that would be a bonus. i wish id taken up leg spin when i was a kid though. its impossible to tell what could have been, i was nowhere near the same body build as i am now (im still not particularly big built, but i was 6'+ and about 8 stone when i was younger lol), probably nowhere near the same spinning ability if i had tried it. but there would have been the possibility to take my cricket further.

i was too busy playing football though! for a team that used to finish 2nd from bottom in the lowest division every season, and we were lucky to win any games apart from the home and away against the bottom club lol. i think my efforts and goals were slightly misguided. on the other hand my bowling might be on the verge of getting as good as its ever going to be. in which case il just be a 2nd XI (or thereabouts) league player. but as long as its enjoyable im not really fussed. i just like to set myself big targets so that ive always got something distant to aim at.

I've just read an article about the Pakistan wrist spinner that plays for Essex, Danish Kaneria, it includes some quotes from him - man is he an arrogant git, in it he claims that there are only 3 other people in the world that can do what he does. Maybe I'm being ultra niaive but I reckon he's stretching the truth there a little bit. He says he likes Panesars bowling and Adil Rashid and in doing so implies some respect, but one of 3 people in the world!!!?

 

[strof]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Three)

artificial wickets are my favourite surface. the older and more worn out the better. my favourite net location is a slab of concrete with a 20 year old layer of thin worn out carpet on it. it can be tough to generate turn sometimes, you are really reliant on the seam hitting ground, but when it does it will turn and bounce big.

if the ball isnt turning underarm then stick at that for now. it absolutely has to do something underarm, otherwise youll always be struggling overarm. just start out underarm over about 6 yards, then gradually increase it, get the hand working how it needs to. then move it roundarm, and then overarm. the roundarm stage is optional, i tried it and i couldnt bowl like that, so it didnt help. underarm is always helpful though. as is bowling overarm at a wall from about 6 yards away, because you can see what the ball does off the wall, and its easier to make adjustments.

thanks jim.its getting to the stage where i am going to try and start bowling it myself it may help me understand what he is trying to do. im 46 by the way lol!