Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Looks like I may have inadvertently developed a full-on Slider bowled the proper way. I'm still trying to get the Big Flick Leg Break and as a part of the process I've got balls all over the place that I pick up and throw around the house (Slowly smashing the place up) flicking the ball inwards. More and more the sensation is becoming natural but more and more it's just a full on back spinner that when actually bowled as Jim (I think) has said above just goes straight on and I know exactly what you mean about it being so much better than the Flipper as a back-spinning variation. Primarily you'd bowl it in exactly the same way as your Leg Break along with the looping flight but it'd just go straight, I'm sure that if you had it sussed it would be a devastating delivery?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;375566 said:
it is easier said than done. It sounds simple but is hard to do. It will make you faster too. When you release too early your arm "beats" the ball, but this can be a useful way to bowl a slow ball.
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What do you mean by my arm beating the ball? I will have another video of my bowling up by tonight so you guys can have a look at my action.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;375577 said:
Looks like I may have inadvertently developed a full-on Slider bowled the proper way. I'm still trying to get the Big Flick Leg Break and as a part of the process I've got balls all over the place that I pick up and throw around the house (Slowly smashing the place up) flicking the ball inwards. More and more the sensation is becoming natural but more and more it's just a full on back spinner that when actually bowled as Jim (I think) has said above just goes straight on and I know exactly what you mean about it being so much better than the Flipper as a back-spinning variation. Primarily you'd bowl it in exactly the same way as your Leg Break along with the looping flight but it'd just go straight, I'm sure that if you had it sussed it would be a devastating delivery?
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yeh, i bowl mine exactly like a leg break. it doesnt carry in the air like the flipper, because its looped up it still dips a bit (where the flipper is quite flat). then it bounces, goes dead straight (if you get it right, otherwise it becomes a massive leg break) but the backspin takes pace off the ball at the same time. it doesnt stay particularly low, because of the loopy flight, but because the pace has been taken off it kind of stands up off the pitch, bounces up more sharply than it should, then drops back down again just as sharply.

as ive said before, if bowled perfectly mine could literally pitch on the batting crease, bounce clean over the top of the stumps, and then land a yard behind them. its a really sharp bounce, up and down. id imagine a lot of batsman would have timing problems against it, especially if they are expecting a leg break. plus it goes straight on as well, and looks literally identical out of the hand to my square leg break, as my videos showed. i doubt many people could even pick the difference in the slow motion video lol.

if you get it wrong and it leg breaks, then it does so with the same erratic bounce, and because of the backspin turns huge, almost at right angles sometimes. the hardest part of the delivery is getting it to go dead straight (in theory you can get it to turn back in as well if your wrist is supple enough). youve got to roll your wrist at release, and because of where you arm is, you basically roll your wrist across the line, so it naturally imparts side spin. to get it dead straight you have to really twist at the elbow in a way you shouldnt be able to over compensate in order to get it straight. to bowl it coming back in at the batsman youd have to seriously flex your elbow or possibly use the shoulder more, but its possible. i cant do it yet, but then i cant bowl a wrong'un either. the wrong'un slider would be insane, potentially the biggest turning wrong'un ever bowled, as i doubt anyone else has ever achieved it!! Murali maybe, but then hes technically an off-spinner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Jim as we're so close to each other, we're going to have to get together at some point and sample each others bowling next spring/summer, I want to see your bowling and what you're doing.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

im up for it, as ive said before. maybe a saturday or a sunday pre-season at a decent set of nets somewhere.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

water_boy;375635 said:
What do you mean by my arm beating the ball? I will have another video of my bowling up by tonight so you guys can have a look at my action.
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Sort of like if your arm is coming down after you deliver the ball, for a slow ball, the ball feels like it is behind the arm, whereas the faster ball feels like it leaves in front of the arm.
Not a very good explanation perhaps and I dont know if it is actually true! I t just feels like it to me.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;375577 said:
Looks like I may have inadvertently developed a full-on Slider bowled the proper way. I'm still trying to get the Big Flick Leg Break and as a part of the process I've got balls all over the place that I pick up and throw around the house (Slowly smashing the place up) flicking the ball inwards. More and more the sensation is becoming natural but more and more it's just a full on back spinner that when actually bowled as Jim (I think) has said above just goes straight on and I know exactly what you mean about it being so much better than the Flipper as a back-spinning variation. Primarily you'd bowl it in exactly the same way as your Leg Break along with the looping flight but it'd just go straight, I'm sure that if you had it sussed it would be a devastating delivery?
Click to expand...



By George he's got it! That's the one. Little bit tricky that one to do against a wall as it can be hard to catch. Hand to hand for hours on end helps get it.
The pure backspinner is best but slightly off straight got me lots of wickets as well. Sometimes Benaud bowled half his deliveries as backspinners or the big legbreak that is close to it on the loop.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I reckon that backspinner is so important a young bowler over the off season should make it his stock ball for a few weeks and get the ability to bowl it as second nature.
I showed my son how to bowl it early on because my theory is it only gets harder to get it once the legbreak is ingrained completely, even though it is just another variation of a legreak.
I wished he pulled it out of the cupboard on saturday, but you cant put an old head on young shoulders i know.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I think part of the reason I've not been having much success with the Biggun when I have been trying it is possibly because I've been bowling sliders instead!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;375735 said:
I think part of the reason I've not been having much success with the Biggun when I have been trying it is possibly because I've been bowling sliders instead!
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That is how Doug Ring, who was probably the first to master that backspinner, came to it. He kept trying to spin the biggest leg break and ended up with his slider, but he called it his skimmer or skipper or something like that , he showed Benaud how to bowl it and Benaud was the best at it probably there has been, especially on Austalian pitches. McGill was good at it too and used it instead of a flipper, which he could not master.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;375746 said:
That is how Doug Ring, who was probably the first to master that backspinner, came to it. He kept trying to spin the biggest leg break and ended up with his slider, but he called it his skimmer or skipper or something like that , he showed Benaud how to bowl it and Benaud was the best at it probably there has been, especially on Austalian pitches. McGill was good at it too and used it instead of a flipper, which he could not master.
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i was watching some early Warne footage the other day on Youtube for a while when i was bored with nothing better to do. Warne had a blinding slider delivery in his early days. i dont think he ever got credited for it properly because commentators were too busy calling all of his straight balls flippers. they got totally hung up on the hype around it once it baffled a couple of top batsmen, and neglected his more basic deliveries. ive seen them call big leg breaks that didnt turn a flipper before lol, if Warne bowled straight it was almost assumed by those who didnt appear to understand his deliveries.

in his 12/128 against SA video i count 3 sliders, 2 flippers, and 1 that im undecided on, it could be a slider or a flipper, probably a flipper looking at his hand but the quality isnt amazing. YouTube - Shane Warne 12/128 Vs South Africa 1994

thats 6 wickets from straight deliveries lol. 2 or 3 of the leg breaks are monsters round the backs of peoples legs. his leg break almost serves just to set batsmen up to be killed by a variation. thats the great thing about good variations - a batsman can think hes on top of you, playing your leg breaks, and then from nowhere hes on his way back to the pavillion LBW or bowled and doesnt even know how lol. theres nothing better than the look on a batsmans face when he looks at his stumps and has no idea how the bails came off! ive only managed it once, but the batsman looked at me whilst i yelled in delight as if to say "im sure the keeper just knocked the bails off there, theres no way the ball hit". he was genuinely baffled as to how it happened, especially as he was a first team league player who had hit a century the week before apparently :D
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;375746 said:
That is how Doug Ring, who was probably the first to master that backspinner, came to it. He kept trying to spin the biggest leg break and ended up with his slider, but he called it his skimmer or skipper or something like that , he showed Benaud how to bowl it and Benaud was the best at it probably there has been, especially on Austalian pitches. McGill was good at it too and used it instead of a flipper, which he could not master.
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Grimmett bowled the slider didn't he? Or was it a ball he hardly used - I'm under the impression he didn't think much of the back-spinning Fipper and if he ever bowled a back-spinner it was the Slider?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;375903 said:
Grimmett bowled the slider didn't he? Or was it a ball he hardly used - I'm under the impression he didn't think much of the back-spinning Fipper and if he ever bowled a back-spinner it was the Slider?
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Grimmett did not like using backspin other than a rare variation. He did not bowl the backspinning slider that is on the legbreak loop and warns about going too far past the big legbreak because the backspin will make the ball lose pace off the pitch. He did bowl the other style of slider, from the other side of the hand to the slider we are talking about, much like warnes later sliders, he also bowled a palm ball like warnes zooter.


Grimmett was mostly looking for maximum overspin and rarely bowled the warne type flipper that he invented in the 1930,s, and it was only when Benaud had success with it did Grimmett realise its true potential. He preferred to bowl it upside down to the flipper as an overspinner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

i had a practice this afternoon, first time in over a month. i expected to be really rusty, but it didnt go too badly, it certainly wasnt the worse ive bowled in recent times. the nets were pretty wet, and are very sensitive to water, if its even slightly damp then turn is hard to find, and the ball just skids through. there was also a blustery wind blowing in from about 2nd slip, which was nice.

my technique started out pretty much where i left off, but my wrist is more flexible than it was, i guess letting it reset itself has worked, i am no longer so rigidly fixed to bowling overspun leg breaks. ironically my overspun leg break is causing all my problems now lol. square and backspun were working pretty well though.

so i tried to add the few aspects to my game that i have discovered myself and that others have suggested. ive got my front arm more upright, hand in front of my face sort of thing. then as i rotate i tuck my left elbow into my side more, and then swing it out in the follow through. this seems to keep me more compact and controlled in my action, but bizarrely has destroyed my accuracy, or at least what little i had. that might just be because i havent bowled lately though.

ive also found that if i stay much more upright then my bowling is just better in every regard. i started the session bending into the delivery like a pace bowler trying to bowl too fast, and when i corrected this i was bowling pretty well.

i had a 20 minute spell near the end where i hooked it up fairly well, and was bowling in a way ive never done before - line between off stump and leg stump, drifting out, and coming back in to hit off stump. literally clipping the absolute top of off using my side and backspun leg breaks. i was bowling several overs of consecutive deliveries, all hitting off stump or going close, but with varied amounts of drift and then turn back in. i reckon if i bowled that spell in a match for 4 overs id have 3 wickets to my name minimum. all on a great length, just short of driving length, dip, drift, turn, but none of it in huge measures by my usual standards, just subtle deviation. although a few of the balls would have made Mike Gatting look stupid for a second time :D

so overall im fairly pleased. my consistency is rubbish, after my good spell i bowled bricks for 20 minutes, no turn, no accuracy, nothing. but im more consistently bowling at the stumps now. i either bowl at the stumps and the ball does something good or just goes straight and hits them. or i bowl my usual line outside leg and it does nothing and is too full.

i cant figure out how to plant my front foot hard. it just doesnt feel natural unless i run up faster. although a few times i ran in faster and managed to bowl a great delivery that was visibly quicker than my normal pace. this is something i need to work at. also ive found that stepping across the stumps is helping me a lot with the new method. because i stay more compact i rotate less, so im having to artificially add that back in. it needs work.

i also need my camcorder present at every session i think now. ive come away with a dozen things i want to correct, but have no idea what im actually doing wrong, and what im doing right. im tempted not to practice over the winter too much, maybe once or twice a month just to keep me ticking over, and spend my time working on my physical fitness instead. then come back to cricket when the sun comes back next spring. i fear that bad practice in bad weather on pitches that arent helping the ball could be detrimental to my technique, because im going to end up adapting to a pitch that isnt turning and then when it does il turn the ball more, but my technique wont be consistent enough. something i need to have a think about.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Kids will be playing for the school this friday so another day and a half of cricket coming up for my young bloke. We are going to have a heat wave as well, which is always good news for legspinners.
When the temp is around the ton the legspinner finds himself getting lots more overs as the fast bowlers pack it in. I love this hot weather !
Even though he copped some stick last saturday he is still ranked 8th on the bowling averages out of 70 odd bowlers. We have been working on a little less loop and touch more pace. We have another good batsman to confront this week, he used to be in our team . He is a crack front foot player as well
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I think you're getting close to cracking it Jim, or at least on the verge of hitting an epiphanal moment, I seem to recall I used to have those phases where it came together as I was trying to string ideas together, but then it would all fall apart in a really frustrating way. I used to have this sense that maybe there was just one little component part that I needed to discover and it would all suddenly come right and eventually with each of the deliveries it does.

Similarly I've not been out for a while, not by choice, I'd have had a couple of hours at the weekend if it had been possible. still looking for the chance now I'll have to see how it pans out.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;376085 said:
Kids will be playing for the school this friday so another day and a half of cricket coming up for my young bloke. We are going to have a heat wave as well, which is always good news for legspinners.
When the temp is around the ton the legspinner finds himself getting lots more overs as the fast bowlers pack it in. I love this hot weather !
Even though he copped some stick last saturday he is still ranked 8th on the bowling averages out of 70 odd bowlers. We have been working on a little less loop and touch more pace. We have another good batsman to confront this week, he used to be in our team . He is a crack front foot player as well
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What's your blokes strategy going to be against this batsman?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;376102 said:
What's your blokes strategy going to be against this batsman?
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He is going to keep pitching it up but not so much loop to every single ball. He reckons last week he got too carried away with trying to get the stumping off their best player. Our keeper wasn't in a good posi to effect one anyway. He definately will vary his pace more and will slip in the faster one
We know their best player, he is very good, but tempermental, immature and hates being frustrated. I am glad he doesn't play for us anymore because he is not a very good sport and carries on a bit if he cops a bad decision, etc. He will be determined to succeed against us that is for sure. If he gets on top of my kid as much as last weeks batting star he is going to introduce some variety not just the natural variation he relies on.
The wicket he took for the school last week was from a wrongun according to the coach ,which is what it looked like to me as well. My kid thought it was the topspinner but it is the occassional wrongun that he has started to bowl just this season. It is not the way i thought he would start bowling wronguns, it came more by accident than anything else. But he has been bowling them on and off from day one and had wrongun syndrome at about 9 years old. They only come every few overs and it does throw me a bit when i keep or bat to him.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

nice to see the discussion about backspinning leggies on here, its something i've been working on alot lately as well though i can't seem to get one to go straight, they all turn like leggies lol. Am having a go at the backspinning wrong'un as well so will have to see how that one goes. My action is much improved consitency wise and i think i've got my pace back(will have to check it at some stage). There is a bit to work on with the consitency of arm height probablly being the main one as some of my deliveries are better with a high arm and some slightly round arm.

Unfortunately the indoor tournament the other week was cancelled and i didn't get picked for the rearranged one, which we got hammered in. Am back in the side for an indoor game tomorrow so getting in a bit of practice before then, probablly will be bowling exclusively leggies, though practices this afternoon and evening may change my mind.

Anyway dave i'd be up for meeting up and having a net preseason as well would be good to meet up and discuss tactics and deliveries.

On another note it looks like i may have the chance to go on a cricket tour to malta again with the uni which would be ace if it goes ahead.

Anyway i'm off for an hours practice and have nets later to get some good practice in.
 
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