Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

We might attend one of the two coaching clinics available in the holidays. Probably the three day one by st georges cricket club ( Bradman and O Riellys old club). The other 2 day one has a few former test players but we went to it a couple of years ago and it is too big to get much individual help. One stand out keeper got a good one on one with former test keeper and international coach steve rixon. I learnt a lot by just watching that.

The st george one is opposite the beach as well which means it will be cooler. Their spin coach is Murray Bennett. Most parents just drop the kids off but i like to hang around and pick up some tips and get my moneys worth.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;380361 said:
We might attend one of the two coaching clinics available in the holidays. Probably the three day one by st georges cricket club ( Bradman and O Riellys old club). The other 2 day one has a few former test players but we went to it a couple of years ago and it is too big to get much individual help. One stand out keeper got a good one on one with former test keeper and international coach steve rixon. I learnt a lot by just watching that.

The st george one is opposite the beach as well which means it will be cooler. Their spin coach is Murray Bennett. Most parents just drop the kids off but i like to hang around and pick up some tips and get my moneys worth.
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Jenner comes over here in July/Aug and coaches kids on a 1st come 1st served basis. Joe was too young this year and he said to go along in 2010, but one of the main reasons I wanted to go was to see Jenner coaching. I even tried to get one of the spinners at the club to go and go along pretending to be his Dad but it didn't happen!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

yeah i was watching it live, he was bowling beautifully finished with 7 wickets on a completely flat deck, the commentators were going on about how useful a wrist spinner is as they can still trouble batsmen on these flat decks.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

sadspinner;380467 said:
some of kanerias bowling including a beautiful wrong one, Pakistan vs New Zealand Day 2 Highlights 3rd Test Napier 2009 | Cricket Highlights Video
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What the Wrong un that brought about the LBW? If it's that one - I thought it was pretty lame. He doesn't get a great deal of turn off the wicket, but at 55mph you'd expect that so I suppose it wasn't a bad ball. The thing he seems to have (which is to be expected as he's a test player) is a good understanding of the length to bowl. That's one of the things that I need to get together alongside shouting for LBW's. I reckon I must have missed out on at least 6-8 LBW's last season because of my non-existant or weak appeals. If I understood more the length to bowl to with regards the height and technique of the batsmen I reckon that'd help me to get a lot more wickets. I need to watch how they bat prior to my spell.

Saddo - what a brilliant website - how comes you've been keeping this to yourself!!!! Good posting! How's your 'Tricking the Batsman' going - what's it like?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Warne was lucky, and so are we, that his first junior coach was a legspinner. Cantlon showed him the grip and the three basic deliveries but as a youngster Warne saw himself as a batsman first and like most kids he became frustrated at the difficulty of bowling legspin and preffered to bowl medium pace. Years later when he was a test player it often dissapointed people who went to watch him net before a test how often he bowled seamers rather than spin. That is a bit like Grimmett who often bowled non spinning slow swing bowling in the same situation.

But Cantlon encouraged him to keep trying to spin and not to be put off by the occassional flogging which every legspinner has to endure. How you handle that is the true test.

Warnes next coach was at high school, Barrie Irons a South African who coached a couple of test players. He remembers Warne having an excellent wrongun for a schoolboy and got quite a few wickets with it. This is when he developed his accuracy of line and length through loads of practise in the nets.

Warne somehow managed to get a deal to play league cricket in England. He was there in 1989 during the ashes tour and saw Trevor Hohns have some success with the flipper that Hohns had been working on for quite a few years. Warne thought i could do that and even thought he might be as good as the australian test spinner. Warne developed his own 'flipper' but not ' the flipper'. The delivery was still a mystery to most including warne.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I have been trying to increase the amount of bowling practise my son does lately. We actually do more in the off season than in the season proper but a normal session might be half an hour three times a week, which is good for a under 11 or so but as you get older you have to put in more hours. But he is not keen on long sessions

The best thing is I have found another dad who wants to train with his son for longer periods several times a week. He singled us out to join him because he wants a good spinner to bowl to his kid and he wants to have his son bowl at my boy, who has a very correct batting technique, with a boycott like attitude to batting. we trained for 3 hours the day before last weeks game and the result was his son took 4 wickets in 11 balls and my kid came in at 7/32 and batted in a long partnership that saved the innings and won the game.

Now he wants to do the same thing 2 or 3 times a week and my boy is keen on this whereas if i asked him to practise with just me for so long he would not do that. This is just what he needs at this stage. I remember when i was a kid ( i was 5 before tv came to our area) we played cricket hours and hours on end all summer, kids just dont do that anymore and it shows at junior cricket.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;380584 said:
Warne was lucky, and so are we, that his first junior coach was a legspinner. Cantlon showed him the grip and the three basic deliveries but as a youngster Warne saw himself as a batsman first and like most kids he became frustrated at the difficulty of bowling legspin and preffered to bowl medium pace. Years later when he was a test player it often dissapointed people who went to watch him net before a test how often he bowled seamers rather than spin. That is a bit like Grimmett who often bowled non spinning slow swing bowling in the same situation.

But Cantlon encouraged him to keep trying to spin and not to be put off by the occassional flogging which every legspinner has to endure. How you handle that is the true test.

Warnes next coach was at high school, Barrie Irons a South African who coached a couple of test players. He remembers Warne having an excellent wrongun for a schoolboy and got quite a few wickets with it. This is when he developed his accuracy of line and length through loads of practise in the nets.

Warne somehow managed to get a deal to play league cricket in England. He was there in 1989 during the ashes tour and saw Trevor Hohns have some success with the flipper that Hohns had been working on for quite a few years. Warne thought i could do that and even thought he might be as good as the australian test spinner. Warne developed his own 'flipper' but not ' the flipper'. The delivery was still a mystery to most including warne.
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Interesting stuff here Macca - what's with the seam bowling though? What's that all about - or is it a valuable stage in the process of learning Leg Breaks? Is there some value in bowling straight in order to get your bowling action sorted and your line and length?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;380586 said:
Interesting stuff here Macca - what's with the seam bowling though? What's that all about - or is it a valuable stage in the process of learning Leg Breaks? Is there some value in bowling straight in order to get your bowling action sorted and your line and length?
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I dont know really. I saw him in the nets once at the scg and he was bowling legspin to Alan Border and was getting smashed!
Grimmett did it so as not to give his state foes any clues. Warne did not play much state cricket really, compared to grimmett, and warnes record at state level is poor, he rates way down on the all time list!
I thought he was doing it to make up the numbers of seam bowlers. Maybe to save himself from injury and wear and tear?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;380585 said:
I have been trying to increase the amount of bowling practise my son does lately. We actually do more in the off season than in the season proper but a normal session might be half an hour three times a week, which is good for a under 11 or so but as you get older you have to put in more hours. But he is not keen on long sessions

The best thing is I have found another dad who wants to train with his son for longer periods several times a week. He singled us out to join him because he wants a good spinner to bowl to his kid and he wants to have his son bowl at my boy, who has a very correct batting technique, with a boycott like attitude to batting. we trained for 3 hours the day before last weeks game and the result was his son took 4 wickets in 11 balls and my kid came in at 7/32 and batted in a long partnership that saved the innings and won the game.

Now he wants to do the same thing 2 or 3 times a week and my boy is keen on this whereas if i asked him to practise with just me for so long he would not do that. This is just what he needs at this stage. I remember when i was a kid ( i was 5 before tv came to our area) we played cricket hours and hours on end all summer, kids just dont do that anymore and it shows at junior cricket.
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I'm pleased to read this, as your son was sounding unreal with his committment to the cause! At last some evidence of normality - makes me feel better about my kids now! Another kid who plays at the same kind of level as mine and has equal or more commitment to the game would surely push my kids forwards as this kid seems to have done with yours? There's a lot of kids in our area that join in with us but they're not encouraged by their parents at all. Their parents are just happy to get them out of the way while they get on with watching the tele, ringing people on their mobile phones or even less salubrious activities. At best they might be encouraged to play soccer but cricket as a sport to be taken seriously is a throwback to the 1960's or something your family does. So the chances of me coming across a similar situation as you is pretty slim.

Having said that we're moving practice venues this summer, my kids are now big enough to range out away from the house and go to 'The Rec' see map http://www.multimap.com/s/gvBpU9QH my house is near the woods (red circle) to the right of the centre of the picture and the Rec is to the left where you can see the cricket pitch. The Rec is on a posher estate where the kids generally go to better schools where cricket is played and so the kids that frequent this field are often quite good at cricket. The hope is if we make it a regular thing that we go over there on particular days with all the gear we'll gradually get a regular game/practice going and it'll help to push my kids game on a bit.

Another option is that there's a bloke who's kids go to my boys club and he's Sri Lankan (Went to school with Kumar Sangakara) and he's really up for getting practice sessions going with my kids and that'd be helpful. The only thing is he's a surgeon and works stupid hours and that restricts the amount of time he can do that stuff - but it's a glimmer of hope.

You'd have thought that being brothers my two would self teach each other, but that's the furthest thing from the truth they're at each others throats in competition and it's far more damaging than it is good. There needs to be other kids involved, so I'm looking forward to this summer and the potential interaction with new kids who are on par with mine.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;380589 said:
I'm pleased to read this, as your son was sounding unreal with his committment to the cause! At last some evidence of normality - makes me feel better about my kids now! Another kid who plays at the same kind of level as mine and has equal or more commitment to the game would surely push my kids forwards as this kid seems to have done with yours? There's a lot of kids in our area that join in with us but they're not encouraged by their parents at all. Their parents are just happy to get them out of the way while they get on with watching the tele, ringing people on their mobile phones or even less salubrious activities. At best they might be encouraged to play soccer but cricket as a sport to be taken seriously is a throwback to the 1960's or something your family does. So the chances of me coming across a similar situation as you is pretty slim.

Having said that we're moving practice venues this summer, my kids are now big enough to range out away from the house and go to 'The Rec' see map http://www.multimap.com/s/gvBpU9QH my house is near the woods (red circle) to the right of the centre of the picture and the Rec is to the left where you can see the cricket pitch. The Rec is on a posher estate where the kids generally go to better schools where cricket is played and so the kids that frequent this field are often quite good at cricket. The hope is if we make it a regular thing that we go over there on particular days with all the gear we'll gradually get a regular game/practice going and it'll help to push my kids game on a bit.

Another option is that there's a bloke who's kids go to my boys club and he's Sri Lankan (Went to school with Kumar Sangakara) and he's really up for getting practice sessions going with my kids and that'd be helpful. The only thing is he's a surgeon and works stupid hours and that restricts the amount of time he can do that stuff - but it's a glimmer of hope.

You'd have thought that being brothers my two would self teach each other, but that's the furthest thing from the truth they're at each others throats in competition and it's far more damaging than it is good. There needs to be other kids involved, so I'm looking forward to this summer and the potential interaction with new kids who are on par with mine.
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Yeah I dont push him and he is probably a lot like your kids. I always carry some gear in the car and there are plenty of nets and often i give him no option. But after we start he gets into it, it is just getting him going. But with this other dad and son he really enjoys it and did not want to stop after 3 hours . i was buggered the next day after fielding and bowling so much myself
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Back to warne. A few people say he developed his accuracy and tactics( some bizzare ones early on) before his ability to really rip that big legbreak. People are mistaken to think his accuracy was natural, it took years of hard work in his teens.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;380596 said:
Back to warne. A few people say he developed his accuracy and tactics( some bizzare ones early on) before his ability to really rip that big legbreak. People are mistaken to think his accuracy was natural, it took years of hard work in his teens.
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Do you not think there's any mileage in reverting to bowling straight or in far simpler manner if you're not getting anywhere with your leg break. I know from experience that in order to recover my leg break from the Googly syndrome I went through months of bowling straight balls slowly getting the wrist into the right position. I still reckon that my technique especially with the Leg Break lacks the flick in the manner that Jenner describes. Without being able to video it and seeing it in slow motion I'm not sure that my wrist does anything much at all. My small leg break seems to work just using the correct grip and my bigger version works having a far looser grip with the ball leaving the 3rd finger with more emphasis - whether that emphasis includes a wrist flick I'm not at all sure. But underlying those techniques is a basic ability to bowl straight. At the moment to give my kids a chance and to recreate the bowling they face off other kids I now bowl seam up to them and my actions apart from the grip and the finger emphasis is virtually the same and I can bowl accurately.

Which brings me again to a point that I've made before - if you're struggling with your basics - line and length maybe a period of a few weeks should be spent simplyfying your technique not trying to spin it massively but just concentrate on getting it on the right line and length. Maybe just to reassure yourself that 'Yes you can bowl on a line and length' and that fundamentally your basic technique is there. Once you've established that you're not a lost cause then start to bring in the wrist flick knowing that if you crack that you're then very much on your way?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;380607 said:
Do you not think there's any mileage in reverting to bowling straight or in far simpler manner if you're not getting anywhere with your leg break. I know from experience that in order to recover my leg break from the Googly syndrome I went through months of bowling straight balls slowly getting the wrist into the right position. I still reckon that my technique especially with the Leg Break lacks the flick in the manner that Jenner describes. Without being able to video it and seeing it in slow motion I'm not sure that my wrist does anything much at all. My small leg break seems to work just using the correct grip and my bigger version works having a far looser grip with the ball leaving the 3rd finger with more emphasis - whether that emphasis includes a wrist flick I'm not at all sure. But underlying those techniques is a basic ability to bowl straight. At the moment to give my kids a chance and to recreate the bowling they face off other kids I now bowl seam up to them and my actions apart from the grip and the finger emphasis is virtually the same and I can bowl accurately.

Which brings me again to a point that I've made before - if you're struggling with your basics - line and length maybe a period of a few weeks should be spent simplyfying your technique not trying to spin it massively but just concentrate on getting it on the right line and length. Maybe just to reassure yourself that 'Yes you can bowl on a line and length' and that fundamentally your basic technique is there. Once you've established that you're not a lost cause then start to bring in the wrist flick knowing that if you crack that you're then very much on your way?
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In Bradmans art of cricket he divides wrist spinners into wrist flickers and what he calls "flippers" by which he means those that dont give it a flick. He doesn't say one is better than the other but the "flippers" are more accurate but generally less penetrating.

Grimmett did both. On days one and two of test matches played on good wickets. Grimmett concentrated on line and length and variation of pace. He bowled a lot of straight deliveries and was not trying to spin the ball much if at all. He never gave it a big flick until the wicket started to wear than he really started to give it a rip especially against the tail. When he was bowling to teammates in the nets and not spinning it or revealing his tricks he was also working on this dual approach of his. He also tried to swing the ball when he was not looking for spin.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Dave I have some Grimmett stuff here i will start scanning and emailing today.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

This bloke is keen on getting his kid to practise. He wants to do a couple of hours a day all this week, holidays begin tomorrow so we are up for it. We usually have short but intensive sessions of 6 to 8 overs. We take apart each delivery and try and get it right. I am usually behind the stumps clapping the gloves yelling out spin up, come on pitch em up, too short, no use pitching down legside if you dont spin back, good topspin etc but if he strays too much the language gets a bit hot, i wonder what passer bys think?

This arvo I want my boy to have a long session at the bowling crease against the two other kids. We will be working on pitching up and getting the batsmen to come forward, if they can. He might try a flipper or slider at them as well. One of them is an ok keeper so it will be good for him to have a chance to get a good look at the team legspinner for saturdays game. We are going to practise on saturdays pitch. We know it well and he gets good spin on this one.

The other dad was saying last night how the session on friday was responsible for his kid getting 4 wickets for 3 on sat. I went as far as to say it won us the game. It played my kid into batting form as well.

I hope the coach doesnt think we are treading on his toes by having these extra sessions, he shouldn't, but he might think it is a comment on his coaching, which it is not.

I will quote grimmett on slow bowling " ......you have got to use judgement in this game, it doesn't matter who the bowler is , he must make the batsman play forward or he cant bowl. The short ball is only good for rare variety because the batsman sometimes mishits off the back foot. Cricket is a study. I've published it in my books but nobody takes the trouble to put it into practise..." Well if your listening up there Clarrie, some of us are by rereading your 3 classic cricket books.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Just finished a three hour session with one dad and 4 of the kids in our team. This bloke knows his stuff and is a good coach so i let him run the show and i fielded and put in my two bobs worth now and then. He is a flight seargent in the air force so discipline was not a problem.

He can bowl legbreaks and wronguns ok but it is not his strong suite but he had some good advise for everyone. He wants to do the same thing every day this week except on our normal training day. The kids really enjoyed it though it got to the point of information overload towards the end. He would make a good cricket coach.

The pitch we played on is one of our favourites and my boy was getting some big sidespin.

I only found out by listening to the kids that my boy nominated to them the stumping was going to occur a few weeks back as he was preparing to bowl the delivery that did it. Why wasn't i told I said , to me that is a major breakthrough in his bowling. He knew the batsman was moving down the track so he slipped one wider and voila, the keeper did the rest.

He got another adult out on saturday before play. No mug with the bat either. At my boys age Philpott was playing adult cricket in sydney and getting lots of wickets in the lower grades so kids can do it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Steve Smith has been selected to play for Australia!!!!!! as cover for Hauritz who injured himself. I have been talking about this bloke for months now but i thought they would give him a couple of years to work on his legbreaks but what a great day for legspin.

I was going to watch him this week in the state game but now i might be watching him on tv. He is a couple of years younger than warne was when first picked. I hope he doesn't blow it, it is young for a legspinner to hit the test scene.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;380609 said:
Dave I have some Grimmett stuff here i will start scanning and emailing today.
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Nice one Macca I'll look forward to seeing it - I've just noticed I've got a message - I'll have a look as it might be yours.

Cheers

Dave
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

"Cricket is a study. I published it in my books, but nobody takes any notice to put it into practice". Clarrie Grimmett circa 1968/69. I think that says it all. I really do not think that anyone took any notice of Grimmetts books, Grimmett in these words here seems to allude to this fact.
 
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