Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

[TheGreasyPole]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hi Guys,

Yeah, my wide problem was the bent arm. I had a bowl sunday and for the first time I could work out what was going wrong and correct and I could feel it was definately the problem I had been having that bugged the hell out of me.

I was hoping once I "knew" the problem it would improve my bowling overnight...... but even though I "know" what not to do, I've discovered I've still got to teach my damn arm not to do it !!!

Still, I feel much better about it....... the main aggravation was "not knowing what was going on" and so having no idea how to stop it..... and now I think I'll probably work it out over a few sessions.

Dave..... it wasn't any actual tightness in my arm (if it was I'd expect it to be much worse at the beginning or end of sessions). It just felt "weird" between elbow and shoulder as the arm came over, then just went horribly wrong.......... and thats how I can best describe it.

You can replicate the feeling yourself, by bowling one arm over straight. Just whirl your arm over the top of your shoulder..... then crook your elbow 10-15deg and try the same action of whirling your arm over your shoulder..... with me as the arm no longer comes over, because the bent arm puts the shoulder in the wrong position in half stops and half comes round much more sideways and then when it comes "round" the wrist is all in the wrong position too.

THAT was what was causing some of my worst "massive wides".

It's just part of the process of working out my body I guess. I just hadn;t workd out what the hell was going on it. It just came over every now and again and went ludicrously wrong.

In more news........ I'm really ramping up the big flick now. My bent wrist position at the start of my action is almost curling my fingertips over the top of the ball. Fully locking in my max wrist extension on the "side to side" doornob muscle as well as the up down "pat" muscle.

To my surprise "winding up" my wrist as much as possible for the flick has also reduced the wides slightly, as well as increased spin, because the more energetic flick ensures it leaves a bit cleaner and "hangs up" on my fingers less.

I appreciate the comments on the wides...... that boundaries are worse (jim) and that you used to go at one an over (dave)...... but for me it's also a personal milestone if you like. When those wides are down I "feel" more like a "proper bowler" if you know what I mean.

I'm reasonably resigned to this first season being a bit of a massacre, if I can get on....... and am looking upon it as the year I go from "can't bowl" to "merely reasonable"...... from reasonable to "pretty good" is the next year.

For me sorting out those wides are an important part of that being reasonable. Just don't want to make an utter arse of myself basically...... if the batsman slaughters me, then he's a good batsman........ if I slaughter myself I've got no-one to blame !

But I'm still enjoying my sessions....... and I'm still getting a good 4-5 hours a week... so I'll just keep on plugging away. Each day I learn a little more about my action, and how to correct errors. I get a bit more spin. I get a bit more accurate. It's a rare day in which I feel I've got worse at ALL aspects (although it happens occasionally).

I've also taken Philpotts advice about splitting sessions and concentrating on a different thing in each mini-session.

On the weekday hour session......... I have a 15 min warm up...... then do about 10-15 min sessions of either "working on accuracy", or "more spin", or "through the loop (overs of 1 big leggie, 1 leggie, I overspun, I top spun)" or perhaps a "15 minute, bowl 6 real match overs" scenario...... or "five minutes of flippers" say.

I find if I always give myself a little goal for that "passage", an area or aspect to concentrate on, I get more improvement. I then switch it every 10-15minutes to maintain concentration, or if I find I'm getting very frustrated because that "aspect" is going poorly.

It's definitely a technique I would recommend. I often find that when concentrating on one area others get better (getting less wides when concentrating on max spin as I noted above for example). Not sure if it fits in your snappy 10 commandments.

"Split your practice into smaller sessions concentrating on a particular goal or aspect each session" ?

I'd be interested in any suggestions you guys have for little "mini-sessions" you give yourself..... "bowling at a lefthander" ? ...... "changing your point of aim at last second for a charging batsman" ? ...... do you run similar mini scenario's or mini exercises ?

I find....... when there's no batsman there..... I quite enjoy bowling round the wicket to left handers !! From comments I gather that I am certainly not going to enjoy it as much with a guy at the other end. Lol.

Yours,

TGP

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I was just off to bed but I'll just say a few words. I reckon as long as you're aware that you might get smacked all over the shop I reckon you'll be okay in your first year and wont get too disillusioned. Note that I said might - chance are if you keep practicing with the same intensity all through the winter you may even have a good first season?

Yeah the way you're practicing is pretty much what I do. 3-5 overs bowling leg breaks just to get warmed up and then mixed overs of whatever it is I'm learning or trying to keep on top of so it goes something like LB, Wrong Un, LB, Top-Spinner, LB Flipper and then whatever comes out a bit rusty I might bowl a few overs of that to try and get it working and figure out what it is that going wrong and then I return to the sequence again and then usually bowl a load of Leg Breaks with the odd variation as in a match situation. But it's ultra focussed and with real purpose - you can't do it in any other way.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

With regard bowling at the Left Hander that'll be my Wrong Un which I'm wary about doing too much of, I've come so far since the Googly Syndrome and I don't ever want to go there again and I'm so looking forward to getting the Biggun this season as I'm pretty certain it's going to come together this season from looking at the improvements I've been making recently with the slider and bowling down the legside.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Is this it LOVEFiLM | DVDs, Blu-ray and Games rental

Actually reading the review it's not it as this is a TV drama by the looks of it.

That is the one. Philpott was the technical adviser for the series and he coached the actors in cricket and threw the larwood bouncers in the film as well as playing Grimmett.

The show has many historical errors and casts Jardine as a one dimensional pantomine baddy.

Grimmett had his own unique method of dealing with bodyline and he reckoned if the rest of the team adopted his approach bodyline would have been killed off on day one. He wanted the batsmen to get way to the off or leg side or crouch down on the deck if the leg field was set and that would have forced the bowlers to aim at the stumps eventually. Bradman and everyone else thought his plan was ridiculous but maybe Grimmett was onto something.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

That is the one. Philpott was the technical adviser for the series and he coached the actors in cricket and threw the larwood bouncers in the film as well as playing Grimmett.

The show has many historical errors and casts Jardine as a one dimensional pantomine baddy.

Grimmett had his own unique method of dealing with bodyline and he reckoned if the rest of the team adopted his approach bodyline would have been killed off on day one. He wanted the batsmen to get way to the off or leg side or crouch down on the deck if the leg field was set and that would have forced the bowlers to aim at the stumps eventually. Bradman and everyone else thought his plan was ridiculous but maybe Grimmett was onto something.

Not having a clue about batting it would appear from the footage that I've seen that both techniques would work because the balls was generally over the top of the stumps, but it's whether you'd have time to get on the ball from either of those options if the bowling changed to back on the stumps?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

with regards practice plans/sessions....

mine are a little bit random, but have been getting more organised. i used to just roll up to the nets, bowl a few looseners and warm myself up jogging to collect the balls again. that took about 10 mins. then id just start bowling leg breaks, and after anything from 15 mins to 2 hours id find my rhythm lol. id throw in an occasional variation. but once i found some rhythm id then just fix myself to bowling whatever delivery i was bowling well until i stopped bowling it well. e.g. some days it would be leg breaks, other days the off spinning flipper, other days the slider. once my bowling went bad again id go back to random deliveries until i got bored/tired.

now ive added a little more structure. first off, if im not bowling well within an hour i go home. bad practice is counter productive, all it does is train the muscles to do the wrong thing. if i cant find at least some kind of rhythm then i just call it a day after an hour. if my leg break wont work then il try the variations though just to try not to waste the session. this is how my off spinning flipper was born, i couldnt bowl leg breaks one day so i spent about 2 hours bowling the off break flipper and semi-perfected the method.

if i find some rhythm then i basically just pretend im in a match situation. i use 6 balls, so im bowling an over at a time. i start out by standing at the batting crease with my imaginary bat, positioning myself in the way my imaginary batsman is going to play, imagining my scenario. i then calculate where i want to be landing the ball, and put a marker down (usually a stick or whatever is to hand). then i bowl at my scenario. primarily leg breaks because thats what id do in a game, but il throw in variations. i try to zone out so that im 100% focussed on the bowling, i even give the batsman an aggressive stare after a good delivery lol. then il change the scenario to a new one and bowl to that. and just repeat that over and over.

i find its the best way to throw in all the variables. i might bowl 10 overs at an aggressive right hander, 10 overs at a defensive right handed opener, 10 overs at a leftie, etc, etc. i bowl over the wicket, around the wicket, off stump line, leg stump line, short, full, leg breaks, variations, basically everything i could possibly do in a match situation. plus im picturing my field set and the batsmans shots in my head with every delivery so thinking tactics too. i also try to take my time between deliveries rather than just chuck a ball down the wicket every 10 seconds because thats a bad habit to get into and invariably ends up with my losing my rhythm.

this method is even easier when theres a real batsman in the nets though. its good to practice without one, but i do like bowling at batsmen. theres nothing better for confidence and tactical development!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

with regards practice plans/sessions....

mine are a little bit random, but have been getting more organised. i used to just roll up to the nets, bowl a few looseners and warm myself up jogging to collect the balls again. that took about 10 mins. then id just start bowling leg breaks, and after anything from 15 mins to 2 hours id find my rhythm lol. id throw in an occasional variation. but once i found some rhythm id then just fix myself to bowling whatever delivery i was bowling well until i stopped bowling it well. e.g. some days it would be leg breaks, other days the off spinning flipper, other days the slider. once my bowling went bad again id go back to random deliveries until i got bored/tired.

now ive added a little more structure. first off, if im not bowling well within an hour i go home. bad practice is counter productive, all it does is train the muscles to do the wrong thing. if i cant find at least some kind of rhythm then i just call it a day after an hour. if my leg break wont work then il try the variations though just to try not to waste the session. this is how my off spinning flipper was born, i couldnt bowl leg breaks one day so i spent about 2 hours bowling the off break flipper and semi-perfected the method.

if i find some rhythm then i basically just pretend im in a match situation. i use 6 balls, so im bowling an over at a time. i start out by standing at the batting crease with my imaginary bat, positioning myself in the way my imaginary batsman is going to play, imagining my scenario. i then calculate where i want to be landing the ball, and put a marker down (usually a stick or whatever is to hand). then i bowl at my scenario. primarily leg breaks because thats what id do in a game, but il throw in variations. i try to zone out so that im 100% focussed on the bowling, i even give the batsman an aggressive stare after a good delivery lol. then il change the scenario to a new one and bowl to that. and just repeat that over and over.

i find its the best way to throw in all the variables. i might bowl 10 overs at an aggressive right hander, 10 overs at a defensive right handed opener, 10 overs at a leftie, etc, etc. i bowl over the wicket, around the wicket, off stump line, leg stump line, short, full, leg breaks, variations, basically everything i could possibly do in a match situation. plus im picturing my field set and the batsmans shots in my head with every delivery so thinking tactics too. i also try to take my time between deliveries rather than just chuck a ball down the wicket every 10 seconds because thats a bad habit to get into and invariably ends up with my losing my rhythm.

this method is even easier when theres a real batsman in the nets though. its good to practice without one, but i do like bowling at batsmen. theres nothing better for confidence and tactical development!

What would be your estimated average speed of delivery jim ? Are you working on increasing it? If so, how?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Not having a clue about batting it would appear from the footage that I've seen that both techniques would work because the balls was generally over the top of the stumps, but it's whether you'd have time to get on the ball from either of those options if the bowling changed to back on the stumps?

That is what I thought too. Grimmett faced Larwood but Larwood never bowled bouncers at genuine tailenders so Clarrie never tested his theory. Grimmett late cut anything short, it was his best, some say, only stroke.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

What would be your estimated average speed of delivery jim ? Are you working on increasing it? If so, how?

ive got actual measured average speed from my videos!! the only problem is that my only 2 visual markers are the bowling crease and the stumps, so the speed is averaged across the full 22 yards at around 35mph. obviously that also includes the loss of pace off the pitch when it bounces, the dip and rise, etc. whereas TV figures i believe are measured at peak pace just after the ball leaves the hand. so id hazard a guess that im up around 40mph, maybe a little more.

my target is to have a base pace of around 45-50mph.

im working on increasing it, with mixed results. ive tried a few things. the first and most obvious was to increase the delivery effort, but the results were a huge loss of accuracy and consistency. so i tried increasing the pace of my entire action, including run-up and follow through. this is probably where i will end up, but for now its hard to get the timing right, theres less margin for error, so again it causes inconsistency.

the easiest way to increase the perceived pace at the batting crease is simply to bowl flatter. which is something else im working on. i really do loop the ball up, and it causes me length issues. ive been over pitching a lot lately, getting the deliveries flatter helps. im going to try something out next time i practice with a piece of rope tied across the nets a few inches underneath what i see as the ideal flight height, and then i can keep better track of how floated my deliveries are. il combine this with my visual length and line markers, and im also considering putting a second set of stumps next to the normal stumps on the off side and making it my aim to hit any of the 6 stumps instead of the normal 3. i get too hung up on hitting the stumps and its forcing my bowling too far down the leg side, thats going to kill me come summer when i come across a pitch that doesnt turn!! i figure if i add the additional targets on the off side i might move my line back toward middle stump which is where i want my stock delivery to be. i can always vary it leg side if conditions permit. also my drift takes it that way anyway! if im bowling well then the ball drifts pretty big, and if it drifts big it will always turn big as well (assuming the pitch does). so it becomes a failsafe. middle stump is the line, if im bowling well then the ball pretty much takes care of itself to ensure its still going to hit the stumps lol.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

ive got actual measured average speed from my videos!! the only problem is that my only 2 visual markers are the bowling crease and the stumps, so the speed is averaged across the full 22 yards at around 35mph. obviously that also includes the loss of pace off the pitch when it bounces, the dip and rise, etc. whereas TV figures i believe are measured at peak pace just after the ball leaves the hand. so id hazard a guess that im up around 40mph, maybe a little more.

my target is to have a base pace of around 45-50mph.

im working on increasing it, with mixed results. ive tried a few things. the first and most obvious was to increase the delivery effort, but the results were a huge loss of accuracy and consistency. so i tried increasing the pace of my entire action, including run-up and follow through. this is probably where i will end up, but for now its hard to get the timing right, theres less margin for error, so again it causes inconsistency.

the easiest way to increase the perceived pace at the batting crease is simply to bowl flatter. which is something else im working on. i really do loop the ball up, and it causes me length issues. ive been over pitching a lot lately, getting the deliveries flatter helps. im going to try something out next time i practice with a piece of rope tied across the nets a few inches underneath what i see as the ideal flight height, and then i can keep better track of how floated my deliveries are. il combine this with my visual length and line markers, and im also considering putting a second set of stumps next to the normal stumps on the off side and making it my aim to hit any of the 6 stumps instead of the normal 3. i get too hung up on hitting the stumps and its forcing my bowling too far down the leg side, thats going to kill me come summer when i come across a pitch that doesnt turn!! i figure if i add the additional targets on the off side i might move my line back toward middle stump which is where i want my stock delivery to be. i can always vary it leg side if conditions permit. also my drift takes it that way anyway! if im bowling well then the ball drifts pretty big, and if it drifts big it will always turn big as well (assuming the pitch does). so it becomes a failsafe. middle stump is the line, if im bowling well then the ball pretty much takes care of itself to ensure its still going to hit the stumps lol.

I thought you looked well over 40 mph in some of the clips.
I was talking to a offspinner yesterday and he wanted to know how to increase his natural speed and apart from the things you mentioned above and perhaps a bit of body building i had no answer really. It must be one of the hardest things to achieve successfully.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I think everyone has heard how warnie broke his leg or legs as a youngster and wheeled himself around on a trolley for months and they reckon this is how he developed the strong shoulders and upper body.

Looks like we will have to wait to the pakistan boys get here to see some legspin in the tests.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I thought you looked well over 40 mph in some of the clips.
I was talking to a offspinner yesterday and he wanted to know how to increase his natural speed and apart from the things you mentioned above and perhaps a bit of body building i had no answer really. It must be one of the hardest things to achieve successfully.

its hard to tell for sure on the speed. when i watch my clips at full speed and compare them to clips of Warne id say that it takes a tiny bit longer for my deliveries to reach the stumps than it takes Warne. he bowled up around 47mph on average, so i reckon im somewhere in the low 40's at best.

with regards what i said about my flight, heres an example of what i mean.

this is a typical delivery for me, flighted well up, i almost bowl the ball upwards...
YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Overspun Leg Break 3 (slow motion)

and this is what i want to do every ball...
YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Square Leg Break 1 (slow motion)

looking back through my videos it seems its probably about 60/40 in favour of the over-flighted deliveries, i do actually keep the ball down on quite a few of the vids. but that is more by chance than intention. square seam leg breaks are much easier to keep down than overspun ones for obvious reasons, and ive got a tendancy to go with the 90 deg leg break as my stock ball now which should help. the overspinner is a variation for added bounce, im tall enough to not really require it in my stock delivery. then ive got the backspun leg break for big turn, and the slider.

maybe im becoming the opposite of a conventional leg spinner lol. most leggies have an overspun stock leg break, a top spinner, a wrong'un and sometimes a big leg break. ive got a square stock leg break, a backspun big leg break, a slider and a couple of flippers lol. literally the complete opposite round-the-loop method to your conventional leggie! maybe thats a good thing though.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

its hard to tell for sure on the speed. when i watch my clips at full speed and compare them to clips of Warne id say that it takes a tiny bit longer for my deliveries to reach the stumps than it takes Warne. he bowled up around 47mph on average, so i reckon im somewhere in the low 40's at best.

with regards what i said about my flight, heres an example of what i mean.

this is a typical delivery for me, flighted well up, i almost bowl the ball upwards...
YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Overspun Leg Break 3 (slow motion)

and this is what i want to do every ball...
YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Square Leg Break 1 (slow motion)

looking back through my videos it seems its probably about 60/40 in favour of the over-flighted deliveries, i do actually keep the ball down on quite a few of the vids. but that is more by chance than intention. square seam leg breaks are much easier to keep down than overspun ones for obvious reasons, and ive got a tendancy to go with the 90 deg leg break as my stock ball now which should help. the overspinner is a variation for added bounce, im tall enough to not really require it in my stock delivery. then ive got the backspun leg break for big turn, and the slider.

maybe im becoming the opposite of a conventional leg spinner lol. most leggies have an overspun stock leg break, a top spinner, a wrong'un and sometimes a big leg break. ive got a square stock leg break, a backspun big leg break, a slider and a couple of flippers lol. literally the complete opposite round-the-loop method to your conventional leggie! maybe thats a good thing though.

I see what you mean. The second one, the squarer one would be ideal but that first one would bring a lot of tailenders undone. You know when you have a few runs to play with and they expect the legspinner to get rid of the tail, you could have some fun at their expense with that highly flighted stuff.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Nice line on the Off-stump there - that's the one I go for 95% of the time. With regards speeding the bal delivery up - the blokes at my team reckon the run up adds a good bit of speed and I've always found that if you come into the explosion through the crease via a faster run - that explode through the crease is far more dynamic and seemingly causes a fair increase in the speed which is very tangible.

With regards flighted balls and increase in speed a good top spinner is the answer, my captain (China man) this is his primary weapon, he gets it up above the eye level and it looks fairly flat as though it's going to eventually land somewhere around your feet - but then it drops out of the sky like a doodlebug and it's fast.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Around about day 3 or 4 of the adelaide test v west indies the commentators starting saying what we need is a wrist spinner. Hauritzs offspin did not worry the W.I batsmen much. They are however notoriously bad players of good legspin.
Mark Waugh pointed out how Hauritz undercuts the ball and does not get much topspin. Topspin was Grimmetts weapon on the batting paradise of Adelaide in the 30,s. It worked for him as he was the most successful spinner that has ever bowled there.
Ponting says the reason they should stick with the offspinner for perth is the breeze there favours offspin. Well you could argue all the seabreezes here favour the offspinner. Also in the W.Indies the trade winds blow from the north east and come in from fine leg to help offspin but that did not stop Philpott from having a sensational tour there in the 60,s , bowling into the wind. It does not sound like a good reason not to pick a legspinner.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

its time for a long post, not done too many lately

i found some time for a good long practice at lunch today. i think it possibly went quite well, but im really not sure. the nets are so wet this time of year that the surface is incredibly unpredictable. sometimes the ball turns huge (specifically 2 of the balls ive got that are more worn and softer than the others) and other times a seemingly perfect delivery just skids straight though. its incredibly frustrating as it gives me absolutely no feedback as to whether i just bowled a good ball or a bad one!! the nets that are local to me are carpet on concrete without underlay, so the results tend to be more predictable. but unfortuantely they are dismantled for winter. my clubs nets (where i was today) are really new with thick underlay between carpet and concrete, and the carpet is really fresh. it absorbs the water and then becomes super slippery (i can lose my footing on my run up sometimes).

ive made a strange observation on the wet nets, which may or may not apply to real wickets that dont turn - but if i rip the ball hard, it seems to skid through no matter what. if i spin it with less effort then the seam tends to bite more and it will turn more consistently. i also still get the very odd and unexplainable Philpott "reverse spin" pheonomenon sometimes, where a hard ripped leg break on a wet pitch will turn back in slightly. i have absolutely no idea how it is even possible, but it happens on multiple surfaces for me.

so because i wasnt getting the ball to turn that well i tried to focus on bowling a good line and length instead because there was nothing else i could do. i mostly managed to bowl inline with the stumps, but ive got a ton of massive problems with my action. i cant decide which way to move forwards. on the one hand my most consistent and best performing action is the "flawed" one from my videos. getting my front arm up high and not stepping across myself so much results in really poor consistency. getting more side on however sometimes helps line and turn, but i struggle with length (overpitching a lot) and also with flight (it has a tendancy to be slung out flat like a fast bowler). i tried a fully front-on action which is awesome for everything except for accuracy of line (i spray the ball everywhere). so im really not sure what to do, i need a dry pitch first!!!

im not sure if its just because ive not practiced much since the season finished, or if ive subconsciously altered my approach speed or what (maybe ive just got stronger lol, but i havent been exercising much). but im bowling LOADS faster than i ever used to. i reckon when the ball comes out flat (which it sometimes does if i get it stuck in my fingers) and at full effort its got to be 55-60mph. it looks as quick as some of the better kids bowl their pace deliveries at, having seen them bowl in the same nets as me plenty of times. its got to be pretty fast as i stuck a large bin alongside the stumps (to try and get me to aim inline with the stumps instead of outside leg, as i mentioned the other day) which had 6" of rainwater in the bottom of it and a load of rubbish, and i hit it square on with one delivery that didnt turn and it moved it back 6"!!

i bowled one fluke delivery at this kind of pace, super flat flight, but it pitched on a really nice length and turned huge! if i could do that on demand it would be an awesome variation, get the batsman thinking your throwing up an arm ball at well over 50mph and then it turns away on him! on the most part i think the extra pace just stopped the ball from turning on a slippy surface. when i bowled really slowly (which was probably around the same pace as i was bowling in my videos!) everything worked much better. the only positive of all this is that ive got control of my flight much more now, i can keep it down. sometimes too much though, but its easier to add flight than to remove it.

so mixed results. on the one hand ive found the pace (and flight) that i wanted (probably more than i wanted tbh!). but at what price? assuming the wet surface was causing all my problems today then im not sure, maybe my bowling was fine and the surface was at fault. but it might just be that the faster pace is causing all of the problems instead. i have no way of knowing!

im tempted to spend £24 for an hour at an local indoor cricket centre local to me (its a ridiculous price, but still tempting at this point, i could also do with spending some time against a bowling machine to improve my batting) to see what happens there. i hold almost no hope of there being a spell of at least a week of sunshine and no rain to dry the nets out this side of May. my club starts indoor nets sometime after Christmas though for more sensible money (about £7/session i think). but its a sports hall at a school, so the surface wont be that realistic. the indoor cricket centre has proper permanent net facilities that just got relaid a couple of months ago.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Around about day 3 or 4 of the adelaide test v west indies the commentators starting saying what we need is a wrist spinner. Hauritzs offspin did not worry the W.I batsmen much. They are however notoriously bad players of good legspin.
Mark Waugh pointed out how Hauritz undercuts the ball and does not get much topspin. Topspin was Grimmetts weapon on the batting paradise of Adelaide in the 30,s. It worked for him as he was the most successful spinner that has ever bowled there.
Ponting says the reason they should stick with the offspinner for perth is the breeze there favours offspin. Well you could argue all the seabreezes here favour the offspinner. Also in the W.Indies the trade winds blow from the north east and come in from fine leg to help offspin but that did not stop Philpott from having a sensational tour there in the 60,s , bowling into the wind. It does not sound like a good reason not to pick a legspinner.

Who have you got that's up to it or worth a go?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

its time for a long post, not done too many lately

i found some time for a good long practice at lunch today. i think it possibly went quite well, but im really not sure. the nets are so wet this time of year that the surface is incredibly unpredictable. sometimes the ball turns huge (specifically 2 of the balls ive got that are more worn and softer than the others) and other times a seemingly perfect delivery just skids straight though. its incredibly frustrating as it gives me absolutely no feedback as to whether i just bowled a good ball or a bad one!! the nets that are local to me are carpet on concrete without underlay, so the results tend to be more predictable. but unfortuantely they are dismantled for winter. my clubs nets (where i was today) are really new with thick underlay between carpet and concrete, and the carpet is really fresh. it absorbs the water and then becomes super slippery (i can lose my footing on my run up sometimes).

ive made a strange observation on the wet nets, which may or may not apply to real wickets that dont turn - but if i rip the ball hard, it seems to skid through no matter what. if i spin it with less effort then the seam tends to bite more and it will turn more consistently. i also still get the very odd and unexplainable Philpott "reverse spin" pheonomenon sometimes, where a hard ripped leg break on a wet pitch will turn back in slightly. i have absolutely no idea how it is even possible, but it happens on multiple surfaces for me.

so because i wasnt getting the ball to turn that well i tried to focus on bowling a good line and length instead because there was nothing else i could do. i mostly managed to bowl inline with the stumps, but ive got a ton of massive problems with my action. i cant decide which way to move forwards. on the one hand my most consistent and best performing action is the "flawed" one from my videos. getting my front arm up high and not stepping across myself so much results in really poor consistency. getting more side on however sometimes helps line and turn, but i struggle with length (overpitching a lot) and also with flight (it has a tendancy to be slung out flat like a fast bowler). i tried a fully front-on action which is awesome for everything except for accuracy of line (i spray the ball everywhere). so im really not sure what to do, i need a dry pitch first!!!

im not sure if its just because ive not practiced much since the season finished, or if ive subconsciously altered my approach speed or what (maybe ive just got stronger lol, but i havent been exercising much). but im bowling LOADS faster than i ever used to. i reckon when the ball comes out flat (which it sometimes does if i get it stuck in my fingers) and at full effort its got to be 55-60mph. it looks as quick as some of the better kids bowl their pace deliveries at, having seen them bowl in the same nets as me plenty of times. its got to be pretty fast as i stuck a large bin alongside the stumps (to try and get me to aim inline with the stumps instead of outside leg, as i mentioned the other day) which had 6" of rainwater in the bottom of it and a load of rubbish, and i hit it square on with one delivery that didnt turn and it moved it back 6"!!

i bowled one fluke delivery at this kind of pace, super flat flight, but it pitched on a really nice length and turned huge! if i could do that on demand it would be an awesome variation, get the batsman thinking your throwing up an arm ball at well over 50mph and then it turns away on him! on the most part i think the extra pace just stopped the ball from turning on a slippy surface. when i bowled really slowly (which was probably around the same pace as i was bowling in my videos!) everything worked much better. the only positive of all this is that ive got control of my flight much more now, i can keep it down. sometimes too much though, but its easier to add flight than to remove it.

so mixed results. on the one hand ive found the pace (and flight) that i wanted (probably more than i wanted tbh!). but at what price? assuming the wet surface was causing all my problems today then im not sure, maybe my bowling was fine and the surface was at fault. but it might just be that the faster pace is causing all of the problems instead. i have no way of knowing!

im tempted to spend £24 for an hour at an local indoor cricket centre local to me (its a ridiculous price, but still tempting at this point, i could also do with spending some time against a bowling machine to improve my batting) to see what happens there. i hold almost no hope of there being a spell of at least a week of sunshine and no rain to dry the nets out this side of May. my club starts indoor nets sometime after Christmas though for more sensible money (about £7/session i think). but its a sports hall at a school, so the surface wont be that realistic. the indoor cricket centre has proper permanent net facilities that just got relaid a couple of months ago.

Yeah I've noticed that spinning the ball with back-spin slider style the ball does sometimes come in like an off-spinner with back-spin - I think it's just turning your wrist even further than you do with a slider. Didn't someone call it a off-spinning slider recently?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

im tempted to spend £24 for an hour at an local indoor cricket centre local to me (its a ridiculous price, but still tempting at this point, i could also do with spending some time against a bowling machine to improve my batting) to see what happens there. i hold almost no hope of there being a spell of at least a week of sunshine and no rain to dry the nets out this side of May. my club starts indoor nets sometime after Christmas though for more sensible money (about £7/session i think). but its a sports hall at a school, so the surface wont be that realistic. the indoor cricket centre has proper permanent net facilities that just got relaid a couple of months ago.

we get a cheaper rate at the local indoor during the day if we get them to leave the lights off!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

ive made a strange observation on the wet nets, which may or may not apply to real wickets that dont turn - but if i rip the ball hard, it seems to skid through no matter what. if i spin it with less effort then the seam tends to bite more and it will turn more consistently. i also still get the very odd and unexplainable Philpott "reverse spin" pheonomenon sometimes, where a hard ripped leg break on a wet pitch will turn back in slightly. i have absolutely no idea how it is even possible, but it happens on multiple surfaces for me.



QUOTE]
I think Philpott reckoned if the ball wont grip it tends to turn in with the arm. this is when he prescribed the backspinning topspinner (slider) for hard glassy tracks that wont allow spin.