Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

One of Grimmetts training methods he used in his teens was to place a 3'x4' fruit crate in front of stumps slightly to leg 3 yards in front of crease and drift a ball behind the box out of sight and spin it back to hit or bounce the off stump. You have to spin the ball hard to do it.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Going to see mcgain bowl today in newcastle. He was given Grimmetts bio by mallett to study for inspiration. He wont learn a lot from just that. I have a copy of a grimmett book by grimmett himself, and there is a chance i might be able to hand it to him as you can get very close to the opposition players in the grandstand at newcatle. I will place a note about plate 14 and its significance (Grimmetts overspinning flipper) his "mystery ball"

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I've knocked up a couple of videos relating to practicing spinning the ball across the body and into the body for the biggun and the slider. I'll try and get them uploaded to youtube and I'll post up the link later today and embed the link into the relevant blogs.

It would be a lot better if I had the slo-mo camera, but at the minute that's not possible, but as soon as I get one (Hopefully in the January sales) I'll redo them.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

i think spinning the ball at a wall is the most useful practice for the backspin variations. spinning it back at your body is good because it strengthens your forearm muscles, once youve tried bowling one at full speed for the first time you understand why that is important lol. getting it dead straight hurts!!

however its hard to bowl it with a straight-ish arm because extending the arm out in front restricts your shoulder and wrist movement so you cant realistically recreate the delivery. its really difficult to bowl it anywhere near straight back at you. the wrist flick is the most important part of the delivery in the slider in order to get it straight. bowling it underarm at a wall however allows you the correct freedom of movement.

on an unrelated note - whilst spinning a ball between my hands yesterday whilst watching the England test match drawing to a nervous close, i sussed out how to bowl the zooter perfectly horizontal!! its a variation on my leg break grip, i reckon i can probably bowl it properly now in the nets. ive been trying to find a method for ages that didnt require me to angle my wrist upwards, which causes it to be really inconsistent and most of the time it just comes out scrambled seam.

on top of this, i read some articles a week or 2 ago claiming that Shane Warne never bowled the zooter, and he completely made it up to frighten English batsmen. alledgedly he had a dozen names for his slider, of which the zooter was one. this backs up some things myself and macca have mentioned in the past about Warne bowling a LOT of sliders in his early days, most of which were claimed as flippers by commentators, but very few were ever credited as the basic round-the-loop slider (he later started to use the slider term to describe his scrambled and seam-up deliveries). on the 10 greatest warne dismissals video on youtube iirc about 4 of them are round-the-loop sliders.

which means there is a possibility that what i refer to as my "zooter" is actually a brand new delivery (so maybe the "create a new spin variation" thread is a possibility). nobody else has ever claimed to bowl it afaik apart from Warne (certainly not under that name, and ive only ever seen one video where it is even described, and its Warne doing the talking and being incredibly vague about it!). and it would seem that maybe he was just on the wind-up.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

i think spinning the ball at a wall is the most useful practice for the backspin variations. spinning it back at your body is good because it strengthens your forearm muscles, once youve tried bowling one at full speed for the first time you understand why that is important lol. getting it dead straight hurts!!

however its hard to bowl it with a straight-ish arm because extending the arm out in front restricts your shoulder and wrist movement so you cant realistically recreate the delivery. its really difficult to bowl it anywhere near straight back at you. the wrist flick is the most important part of the delivery in the slider in order to get it straight. bowling it underarm at a wall however allows you the correct freedom of movement.

on an unrelated note - whilst spinning a ball between my hands yesterday whilst watching the England test match drawing to a nervous close, i sussed out how to bowl the zooter perfectly horizontal!! its a variation on my leg break grip, i reckon i can probably bowl it properly now in the nets. ive been trying to find a method for ages that didnt require me to angle my wrist upwards, which causes it to be really inconsistent and most of the time it just comes out scrambled seam.

on top of this, i read some articles a week or 2 ago claiming that Shane Warne never bowled the zooter, and he completely made it up to frighten English batsmen. alledgedly he had a dozen names for his slider, of which the zooter was one. this backs up some things myself and macca have mentioned in the past about Warne bowling a LOT of sliders in his early days, most of which were claimed as flippers by commentators, but very few were ever credited as the basic round-the-loop slider (he later started to use the slider term to describe his scrambled and seam-up deliveries). on the 10 greatest warne dismissals video on youtube iirc about 4 of them are round-the-loop sliders.

which means there is a possibility that what i refer to as my "zooter" is actually a brand new delivery (so maybe the "create a new spin variation" thread is a possibility). nobody else has ever claimed to bowl it afaik apart from Warne (certainly not under that name, and ive only ever seen one video where it is even described, and its Warne doing the talking and being incredibly vague about it!). and it would seem that maybe he was just on the wind-up.

You'll have to have a look and see what you reckon, it's only my video interpretation of the images in Philpotts book. I have to concede that it's not a delivery I have any control over yet and it may be the case that you're probably the person best suited to getting this on video Jim, as you're the one that bowls this as one of your main deliveries?

But listen for the click as the ball comes off the fingers in the vids - this is something no-one else seems to do?

Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zob1Md0HVqs

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

i think spinning the ball at a wall is the most useful practice for the backspin variations. spinning it back at your body is good because it strengthens your forearm muscles, once youve tried bowling one at full speed for the first time you understand why that is important lol. getting it dead straight hurts!!

however its hard to bowl it with a straight-ish arm because extending the arm out in front restricts your shoulder and wrist movement so you cant realistically recreate the delivery. its really difficult to bowl it anywhere near straight back at you. the wrist flick is the most important part of the delivery in the slider in order to get it straight. bowling it underarm at a wall however allows you the correct freedom of movement.

on an unrelated note - whilst spinning a ball between my hands yesterday whilst watching the England test match drawing to a nervous close, i sussed out how to bowl the zooter perfectly horizontal!! its a variation on my leg break grip, i reckon i can probably bowl it properly now in the nets. ive been trying to find a method for ages that didnt require me to angle my wrist upwards, which causes it to be really inconsistent and most of the time it just comes out scrambled seam.

on top of this, i read some articles a week or 2 ago claiming that Shane Warne never bowled the zooter, and he completely made it up to frighten English batsmen. alledgedly he had a dozen names for his slider, of which the zooter was one. this backs up some things myself and macca have mentioned in the past about Warne bowling a LOT of sliders in his early days, most of which were claimed as flippers by commentators, but very few were ever credited as the basic round-the-loop slider (he later started to use the slider term to describe his scrambled and seam-up deliveries). on the 10 greatest warne dismissals video on youtube iirc about 4 of them are round-the-loop sliders.

which means there is a possibility that what i refer to as my "zooter" is actually a brand new delivery (so maybe the "create a new spin variation" thread is a possibility). nobody else has ever claimed to bowl it afaik apart from Warne (certainly not under that name, and ive only ever seen one video where it is even described, and its Warne doing the talking and being incredibly vague about it!). and it would seem that maybe he was just on the wind-up.

In this very interesting article The champion bowler one of warnes first coaches, Bob Simpson, reckons the zooter is really just the backspinning topspinner or slider. Some call the palm ball legbreak a zooter as well.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

This guy Cricket Tips & Techniques BOWLING reckons he knows how to do a zooter and it is a palm ball. Bob Holland bowled this one but didnot call it a zooter.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

New video - spinning the ball into the body YouTube - Wrist spin - round the loop - slider & big Leg Break practice technique

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

This guy Cricket Tips & Techniques BOWLING reckons he knows how to do a zooter and it is a palm ball. Bob Holland bowled this one but didnot call it a zooter.

Yeah that's the bastardised 'Duffers slider' the one I used to do before I new about the back-spinning round the loop 'Real Slider'. It still works though it's a good ball.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

You'll have to have a look and see what you reckon, it's only my video interpretation of the images in Philpotts book. I have to concede that it's not a delivery I have any control over yet and it may be the case that you're probably the person best suited to getting this on video Jim, as you're the one that bowls this as one of your main deliveries?

But listen for the click as the ball comes off the fingers in the vids - this is something no-one else seems to do?

Here it is YouTube - Wrist spin - round the loop - slider & big Leg Break practice technique

Yeah the click of the fingers is audible allright. That is a good sign dont you reckon?
It was not only grimmetts flipper that made a clicking noise. Some batsman reckoned they could hear his normal topspinner clicking as well, but they must have been at the non strikers end surely to hear it.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Yeah the click of the fingers is audible allright. That is a good sign dont you reckon?
It was not only grimmetts flipper that made a clicking noise. Some batsman reckoned they could hear his normal topspinner clicking as well, but they must have been at the non strikers end surely to hear it.

Yeah I seem to think so - I can rip it out of the hand with googly and with the top spinner like that but still can't get my leg break like that on a consistent basis. Back in October before the weather turned crook I was getting it to come out of the hand with a big flick with the slider, so I reckon I'm just a smidge away from getting the big Leg Break - just a load more fully focussed practice and I reckon I'll have it.

There's the 'Across the body' video as well uploading now. Actually it's there now - YouTube - Learning the leg break - spinning the ball - giving it a good flick

On the subject of the flick - as far as I'm aware I do give it a fair old flick but I've never had anyone say that they can hear the ball 'Fizzing' through the air, but maybe that's caused by the seam spinning over itself in the direction of flight?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca - all of the ex-pros and commentators that i can find, most of them talking back in the mid-90's, allude to the zooter as what we would call the slider, or as a palm ball of some description. i cant find any that refer to it as a flying saucer delivery. the only reference ive ever heard that does is Warne himself in a random interview video i saw once on YouTube but can no longer find.

Dave - i dont get any kind of finger click with mine, im not sure what would cause the click. maybe the ball as it leaves the thumb perhaps? the video is similar to how i practice mine, start with the arm straight but bend it through the action. if you keep it rigidly straight its impossible. when you actually bowl the delivery the arm is completely different however, its much straighter and doesnt really bend. the wrist and shoulder move instead to compensate. which is why its probably easier to bowl underarm at a wall to practice it. however the arm in front method works the forearm muscles harder, if you do that for 10 mins il bet your forearm will hurt. if i rip the slider a dozen times in practice, my arm will hurt the day after. its really quite intensive, much more so than the flipper i find.

with regards your big flick video, ive got a suggestion. your flick is very wristy, you definitely coil up the wrist and then rotate it at the point of release. thats fairly similar to what i do, and when i started out my whole action looked very similar to yours. however, i found 2 major improvements...

firstly, its hard to tell from a video, but id say your arm is quite tense. your finger grip looks fairly relaxed, but the arm itself looks rigid. you know those magnetic toys that were popular in the 80's where you had an animal on top of a magnetic base, you pushed the base and the limbs all went floppy? then when you released it the animal stood back up straight again, hopefully you know what i mean lol. well if you can get your arm that loose, so its really floppy, you can extract a lot more flick out of it, particularly at the wrist and elbow.

secondly, when you release the ball from your fingers you flick it upwards. the fingers arent in contact with the ball that long, all youve really done is flick the wrist and then release the finger grip, and that imparts the spin. try to spin the ball downwards at the floor, but dont change your wrist or arm to achieve it. its actually not possible, the fingers will release before it gets that far, but the ball will spin out much flatter and youll generate loads more revs.

i might try and make a video later to illustrate it. but its snowing here and really dark so my camera quality will be really poor. id be better off waiting for another day.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Dave - i dont get any kind of finger click with mine, im not sure what would cause the click. maybe the ball as it leaves the thumb perhaps? the video is similar to how i practice mine, start with the arm straight but bend it through the action. if you keep it rigidly straight its impossible. when you actually bowl the delivery the arm is completely different however, its much straighter and doesnt really bend. the wrist and shoulder move instead to compensate. which is why its probably easier to bowl underarm at a wall to practice it. however the arm in front method works the forearm muscles harder, if you do that for 10 mins il bet your forearm will hurt. if i rip the slider a dozen times in practice, my arm will hurt the day after. its really quite intensive, much more so than the flipper i find.

.

A ton of stuff in your reply Jim I'll have to reply later on this evening, but just on the click - the click comes from the 3rd finger and as far as I'm aware my thumb does little other than to balance the ball in the hand. This is why I desperately need to get hold of a slow mo camera so I can see what is exactly happening. I don't have any problems with the forearm as I'm doing both exercises constantly. I know exactly what you mean with regard converting this exercise into a bowling action - hence the reason I haven't got the Big Leg Break and the Slider completely sussed. Last Oct I was getting close to it - but it takes an absolute ton of practice, full and total focus to combine this flick action into the delivery and still maintain accuracy. I've said so many times before I can do it over shorter distances relatively easily, but the full 22 yards I struggle with the accuracy.


I'll have a look at the rest of your comments.............

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

firstly, its hard to tell from a video, but id say your arm is quite tense. your finger grip looks fairly relaxed, but the arm itself looks rigid. you know those magnetic toys that were popular in the 80's where you had an animal on top of a magnetic base, you pushed the base and the limbs all went floppy? then when you released it the animal stood back up straight again, hopefully you know what i mean lol. well if you can get your arm that loose, so its really floppy, you can extract a lot more flick out of it, particularly at the wrist and elbow..

I know exactly what you mean here and when bowling it's the only way I can execute this delivery and it's what I do - but I feel therein lies the problem with the accuracy. I reckon the combination of the fingers, wrist, elbow and working in that spring action requires so much practice I still haven't got anywhere near practicing to the extent that is required. I reckon it's there for the taking it's just that I do so well with all the other variations I'm not prepared to put all the others on the back-boiler in order to suss this Big Leg Break out, but I can sense it's there and coming slowly. Last October I was bowling like this and getting really frustrated and having problems and then suddenly it dawned on me the reason I was having problems was that it wasn't turning because I was bowling the slider and not the Leg Break, I am just a fraction away from getting the wrist right and I'll get it.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca -

secondly, when you release the ball from your fingers you flick it upwards. the fingers arent in contact with the ball that long, all youve really done is flick the wrist and then release the finger grip, and that imparts the spin. try to spin the ball downwards at the floor, but dont change your wrist or arm to achieve it. its actually not possible, the fingers will release before it gets that far, but the ball will spin out much flatter and youll generate loads more revs.

i might try and make a video later to illustrate it. but its snowing here and really dark so my camera quality will be really poor. id be better off waiting for another day.

Nope - don't get this bit unless you're doing the Philpott 'Roll the fingers over the ball' action where the fingers come off the ball dragging them downwards so that it puts the spin onto the ball making the seam rotate at 90 degrees to the direction of flight? In which case in the actual bowling action - yes again - this is what I do. I simply need to dedicate a shed load of time to it in isolation and drop all the other deliveries and just focus on this to get the accuracy and the slight adjustment to the wrist to produce the Biggun.

Just been spinning the ball and it looks like you might be right about the thumb, as the ball leaves the hand it now seems as thought the thumb slaps into the palm and makes that click!!!

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Nope - don't get this bit unless you're doing the Philpott 'Roll the fingers over the ball' action where the fingers come off the ball dragging them downwards so that it puts the spin onto the ball making the seam rotate at 90 degrees to the direction of flight? In which case in the actual bowling action - yes again - this is what I do. I simply need to dedicate a shed load of time to it in isolation and drop all the other deliveries and just focus on this to get the accuracy and the slight adjustment to the wrist to produce the Biggun.

ok, to illustrate what i mean...



the green line is a typical spin between your hands from the video. you release it quite early, just after the wrist unfurls, which is pretty much how you have described your action previously.

the red line is what my delivery will roughly do. i release it much later, the reason for that is that i flick the wrist and then flick the fingers afterwards. the wrist flick doesnt determine the release, it merely gives the fingers their momentum to release the ball, my wrist has rotated further around. so the ball comes out flat, flicks off the tip of my spinning finger, and spins harder and flatter than if i release it earlier. basically picture it as your release aims the ball up at 45 degrees. i rotate my wrist round further before release at about 20 degrees, plus my fingers come over the top of the ball more. your wrist actually rotates further than mine after the delivery. i basically snap mine to a stop as my fingers release to generate more force, and i end up with my fingers completely unfurled and outstretched.

now what happens to me is that if i dont quite get it right, it follows the green line. when i really rip the ball out of my fingers it follows the red line. the hours and hours and hours of practice ive put into spinning between hands recently (literally 2-4 hours a day i reckon, every day, for the past 3 weeks) mean that 99% of the time it follows the red line now. if it follows the green line its because the ball has slipped off my fingers too early. when im bowling across 22 yards this shows itself as a really loopy delivery that flies upwards. when i get it right i bowl flat, literally just above my own eyeline (at 6'2").

its tricky to get it working, and i can fully see how changing your basic method after a few years of already bowling would wreak havoc with your accuracy!! i have the advantage of not having played for quite so long, so changes are easier for me to implement, since i never had accuracy in the first place lol. this isnt just a method for the big leg break though, this is a method for ALL round the loop deliveries (its the only way i bowl). its what i use for the top spinner (when i can bowl it), overspun leg break, square leg break, big backspun leg break, and the slider. it will soon be a similar method for the zooter when i figure it out, and also my various scrambled seam variations.

i reckon if you can implement the fingers that little bit more, youll notice the difference in real bowling. its literally the difference between minimal drift and big drift, and between no sound and the fizzing sound through the air. its definitely worth committing some time to IMO, i think youll find a huge improvement in your drift and turn. find the accuracy with it and youll be unstoppable lol.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I know exactly what you mean here and when bowling it's the only way I can execute this delivery and it's what I do - but I feel therein lies the problem with the accuracy. I reckon the combination of the fingers, wrist, elbow and working in that spring action requires so much practice I still haven't got anywhere near practicing to the extent that is required. I reckon it's there for the taking it's just that I do so well with all the other variations I'm not prepared to put all the others on the back-boiler in order to suss this Big Leg Break out, but I can sense it's there and coming slowly. Last October I was bowling like this and getting really frustrated and having problems and then suddenly it dawned on me the reason I was having problems was that it wasn't turning because I was bowling the slider and not the Leg Break, I am just a fraction away from getting the wrist right and I'll get it.

dont discount the seam position either. some days i get more drift than i get turn off the pitch because the seam is angled back and doesnt touch the pitch. try bowling with a completely scrambled seam and see what happens. i find that if im getting no turn at all and then i bowl a dozen of the same deliveries with scrambled seams, if at least one of them turns then it usually indicates that my seam position isnt right. if none of them turn then i blame it on the pitch and carry on lol.

slow motion is the only way to be sure. a white ball with black tape on the seam helped me a LOT though without the camera. if you can see white above the seam then youre not landing on the seam. you should almost not be able to see the seam on top of the ball at all. my eyesight sucks, so if yours is good youll be able to use this more effectively than i can. the camera probably isnt necessary but im blind over 22 yards!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

ok, to illustrate what i mean...



the green line is a typical spin between your hands from the video. you release it quite early, just after the wrist unfurls, which is pretty much how you have described your action previously.

the red line is what my delivery will roughly do. i release it much later, the reason for that is that i flick the wrist and then flick the fingers afterwards. the wrist flick doesnt determine the release, it merely gives the fingers their momentum to release the ball, my wrist has rotated further around. so the ball comes out flat, flicks off the tip of my spinning finger, and spins harder and flatter than if i release it earlier. basically picture it as your release aims the ball up at 45 degrees. i rotate my wrist round further before release at about 20 degrees, plus my fingers come over the top of the ball more. your wrist actually rotates further than mine after the delivery. i basically snap mine to a stop as my fingers release to generate more force, and i end up with my fingers completely unfurled and outstretched.

now what happens to me is that if i dont quite get it right, it follows the green line. when i really rip the ball out of my fingers it follows the red line. the hours and hours and hours of practice ive put into spinning between hands recently (literally 2-4 hours a day i reckon, every day, for the past 3 weeks) mean that 99% of the time it follows the red line now. if it follows the green line its because the ball has slipped off my fingers too early. when im bowling across 22 yards this shows itself as a really loopy delivery that flies upwards. when i get it right i bowl flat, literally just above my own eyeline (at 6'2").

its tricky to get it working, and i can fully see how changing your basic method after a few years of already bowling would wreak havoc with your accuracy!! i have the advantage of not having played for quite so long, so changes are easier for me to implement, since i never had accuracy in the first place lol. this isnt just a method for the big leg break though, this is a method for ALL round the loop deliveries (its the only way i bowl). its what i use for the top spinner (when i can bowl it), overspun leg break, square leg break, big backspun leg break, and the slider. it will soon be a similar method for the zooter when i figure it out, and also my various scrambled seam variations.

i reckon if you can implement the fingers that little bit more, youll notice the difference in real bowling. its literally the difference between minimal drift and big drift, and between no sound and the fizzing sound through the air. its definitely worth committing some time to IMO, i think youll find a huge improvement in your drift and turn. find the accuracy with it and youll be unstoppable lol.

You're absolutely right and again when practicing the flick I do what you do, sometimes I do it in this wristy manner and other times off the fingers a lot more and yes it's flatter and it spins the ball a lot more and it's the same with the real bowling action - but I find that the reliance on the fingers to higher degree is what causes my inaccuracy. My big turning leg break which doesn't use the wrist to the same extent as in these videos and uses an unfurling action as opposed to a wristy flick incorporates the fingers far more in the flick as you've suggested and turns a lot more than my normal action. But I reckon the combination of the big wristy flick and the finger emphasis is the holy grail that I'm searching for and I'm not far off it.

You're practicing about 10 times more than me!!! All will be revealed and methods compared in the spring when we meet up for a net - it's going to be interesting. This is what I'd like to be able to do suddenly out of nowhere amongst my off-stump line balls - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUsItoJAc60

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

You're absolutely right and again when practicing the flick I do what you do, sometimes I do it in this wristy manner and other times off the fingers a lot more and yes it's flatter and it spins the ball a lot more and it's the same with the real bowling action - but I find that the reliance on the fingers to higher degree is what causes my inaccuracy. My big turning leg break which doesn't use the wrist to the same extent as in these videos and uses an unfurling action as opposed to a wristy flick incorporates the fingers far more in the flick as you've suggested and turns a lot more than my normal action. But I reckon the combination of the big wristy flick and the finger emphasis is the holy grail that I'm searching for and I'm not far off it.

You're practicing about 10 times more than me!!! All will be revealed and methods compared in the spring when we meet up for a net - it's going to be interesting. This is what I'd like to be able to do suddenly out of nowhere amongst my off-stump line balls - YouTube - leg spin is an art

that Warne delivery is my target for next season (landing it on-demand like Warne is another task entirely however lol). i dont reckon im too far off it on as a one-off delivery. hes around the wicket which means the ball is travelling straight forwards and not angled across, and it pitches in a really nice bit of rough. im about 12" away from the same turn on an ungrippy net surface, but also bowling over the wicket. the best ive ever bowled to hit middle and off is about 12" outside leg stump. Warnes is 2 feet outside, but hes bowling very wide on the crease around the wicket. taking into account the 3+ foot difference in starting point i dont reckon id be too far off on a nice rough pitch. i think the night before my matches next season i need to visit the ground and scrub my feet on a patch a foot outside leg stump on a nice length just kidding, the groundsman would probably kill me!

with regards accuracy, ive been thinking about it a bit. when i bowl my flat spinning ball between my hands the fingers generate a fairly substantial sideways velocity on the ball. if i do it for a few hours my left hand starts to hurt where ive been catching it. its tough to estimate a speed, but maybe 15-20mph. when i bowl with a square seam that means as the ball leaves my hand it has a forward velocity of maybe 50mph, and a sideways one of 20mph. the resulting direction is going to be a long way away from where my arm is physically pointing! it does appear to be slightly the case in my videos. i guess thats where the accuracy takes its toll, it may even be a cause of my inconsistent line. if i dont rip the ball quite as hard then there is less of a side velocity. so the ball can end up landing feet apart from where it did the ball before with an identical action just based on how hard i spin it!! thats why the overspun version is much more accurate for me (and probably most other leggies).

so the 2 immediate tasks facing me are to make sure i land the ball on the seam every delivery. and to make sure im consistent in my spinning action. if i can get those 2 nailed i should be a lot more consistent. this snow is really annoying, im not going to be able to practice again for ages!! i might have to stump up the money for an indoor session at this rate.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca - all of the ex-pros and commentators that i can find, most of them talking back in the mid-90's, allude to the zooter as what we would call the slider, or as a palm ball of some description. i cant find any that refer to it as a flying saucer delivery. the only reference ive ever heard that does is Warne himself in a random interview video i saw once on YouTube but can no longer find.

Yeah I know. That article by bob simpson, who taught warne more than anyone if you read it closely ( although success has many fathers and failures a **************), Jenner was coaching him but those things simpson showed him, legstump line, side-on, around the wicket, slider , fitness etc were the making of warne.

One video of a supposed zooter from warne looked like the slider to me I remember.

"Legspin bowling is largely a matter of guile and make believe" That is what Grimmett wrote in 1948 and Warne understood it more than anyone other than Grimmett himself. Grimmett, according to the press in the 30,s was always working on a new mystery ball when in fact he was just developing his 5 flippers.