Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I predicted when the season started that my young bloke would start off one of the better bowlers due to winter practise and indoor comp but as the season progressed other kids would catch up and overtake him in the bowling stakes. That has happened for the last 4 years. And that is pretty much how it is turning out. Not a problem at all. Being a legspinner in u/12 and getting 2,3,4,or even 5 overs max you cant really work on a batsman and have to be more a strike bowler. Plus a lot of your best stuff will go unrewarded. 6/120 off 30 overs is pretty good going in any form of cricket, dont you reckon?

10 rounds down 5 to go until semis we normally have a break from cricket for a few weeks until the comp starts again in late january and go surfin or fishing or golf, anything but cricket. But we might change that this year and start back up training on boxing day. Go to a coaching clinic and try and get some cricket going with his mates. Hit the ground running and hope a few batsmen have some cobwebs from the month off.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;382019 said:
I predicted when the season started that my young bloke would start off one of the better bowlers due to winter practise and indoor comp but as the season progressed other kids would catch up and overtake him in the bowling stakes. That has happened for the last 4 years. And that is pretty much how it is turning out. Not a problem at all. Being a legspinner in u/12 and getting 2,3,4,or even 5 overs max you cant really work on a batsman and have to be more a strike bowler. Plus a lot of your best stuff will go unrewarded. 6/120 off 30 overs is pretty good going in any form of cricket, dont you reckon?

10 rounds down 5 to go until semis we normally have a break from cricket for a few weeks until the comp starts again in late january and go surfin or fishing or golf, anything but cricket. But we might change that this year and start back up training on boxing day. Go to a coaching clinic and try and get some cricket going with his mates. Hit the ground running and hope a few batsmen have some cobwebs from the month off.
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That's four runs an over? With 6 sent back to the sheds - sounds pretty good to me. A break with some surfing sounds good while we're having a break here with snow and ice up to our necks! Macca did you get to see the bloke bowling and did you film any of it?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;382020 said:
That's four runs an over? With 6 sent back to the sheds - sounds pretty good to me. A break with some surfing sounds good while we're having a break here with snow and ice up to our necks! Macca did you get to see the bloke bowling and did you film any of it?
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No ,my boy didn't want to go, but we will go to see pakistan v aust at scg early january.

Must be bad where jim is , Basingstoke was on the evening news here on a story about the weather.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;382022 said:
No ,my boy didn't want to go, but we will go to see pakistan v aust at scg early january.

Must be bad where jim is , Basingstoke was on the evening news here on a story about the weather.
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Yeah a lot of the south east of the UK copped it bad. It's nothing like the 1980's or 1993. Because everyone is chasing profits and maximising efficiency and use of the tax payers money we're now in a position where our councils can no longer justify paying for plant that is sitting idle in yards. Or have yards (Real estate) sitting with piles of salt waiting for bad weather to happen once in a blue moon. There was a time when we had far more snow and far less scrutinising of where our rates and taxes went - that's all changed now - but then when it all goes tits up people are bemused when there's not enough of stuff (plant and salt) to grit the roads with.

Sorry going off topic here!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Got the hollies biography yesterday. will be posting some interesting points from it tomorrow hopefully. Two chapters about leg spin and strategy are very interesting
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

sadspinner;382036 said:
Got the hollies biography yesterday. will be posting some interesting points from it tomorrow hopefully. Two chapters about leg spin and strategy are very interesting
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How's 'Tricking the batsman' have you finished that yet?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;382022 said:
No ,my boy didn't want to go, but we will go to see pakistan v aust at scg early january.

Must be bad where jim is , Basingstoke was on the evening news here on a story about the weather.
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awesome, we made the news in Australia!!!

it was pretty bad, but ive seen much worse snow in the past. last year we had a really heavy snowfall and the grit trucks didnt go out (the same as this week), and driving to work was pretty dangerous. my brother was in the town centre on monday and it took his friend several hours to drive 5 miles home. most people just abandoned their cars. my sister almost got stranded but managed to turn back and come home. me and my dad drove out in it Tuesday morning and it was still bad, but 4WD helps. there were just cars stranded everywhere. on the news it got compared to a "disaster movie". slightly melodramatic, but it was weird to see that many cars just dumped in the middle of the road lol.

anyways, back to cricket....

30-?-120-6 makes for pretty good reading really. slightly less economical than Graeme Swann in the Eng vs SA test last week, he took 45.2-10-110-5 and received a great deal of praise for it. but your boy has an extra wicket for an extra 10 runs, and a substantially better strike rate. 30 balls/wicket isnt far off the great man Warne!

ok, so were comparing test cricket to kids cricket, but still, il bet Warnes figures werent that good at the same age. certainly based on what youve said in the past he didnt really get any good until his late teens/early 20's. so its got to be a good foundation. id imagine from a physical point of view, a leg spinner should improve massively as they approach their 20's just from the added arm strength.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Steve Smith has been included in the test squad again as cover for Hauritz for the boxing day test this time. That would be a baptism of fire against a team who can play spin as good as anyone.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

sadspinner;382036 said:
Got the hollies biography yesterday. will be posting some interesting points from it tomorrow hopefully. Two chapters about leg spin and strategy are very interesting
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When i was researching grimmett i found just about everyone who played test cricket wrote a book. There is loads of interesting stuff in most of them as well. Hollies might have some special advise for english conditions. He always looks short and slightly overweight in the old film. He was supposed to be not a very big wristflicker but very strong with his fingers and extremely accurate.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Clarence Victor Grimmett was born on Christmas Day 1891 in Dunedin, New Zealand.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

They showed a bit of warne instructing young steve smith on the cricket coverage Shane Warne | Steven Smith yesterday. Smith really gives it one almighty flick with his wrist. Looks like Smith has found a good coach.

Benaud reckons the best thing for steve smith, or any legspinner, is to study the old footage of warne. Pakistan legspinner Farhat must have, he has copied a lot of warnes runup and delivery.

The prime minister was talking to warne on air pleading with him to make a come-back for next years ashes. That wont happen but having him mentor Smith is probably the best thing he could be doing for slow bowling right now.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

sadspinner;382306 said:
Here is another 'promising' one that seems to have gone missing macca. Video Destination
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Yeah young 'revs' bailey from south aus. His dad had a good nets setup for him in the backyard, much like grimmetts, maybe he should go back to the family home to live.

Many are called, but few are chosen.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;382318 said:
Yeah young 'revs' bailey from south aus. His dad had a good nets setup for him in the backyard, much like grimmetts, maybe he should go back to the family home to live.

Many are called, but few are chosen.
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Good post Saddo. Good to hear at the end there that Warne is putting something back into the game.

There might be a new bloke joining in on the forum soon who's interested in our 'spinning the ball back into the body' (Rather Grimmetts) theory. As far as I'm aware he's trawling through the older posts looking for references to it. Whether he'll find it or not is another matter as the admin blokes keep having to renew this thread because it becomes far too big.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

A question was asked on youtube along with a bunch of others YouTube - Flipper Variation No 5 Clarrie Grimmetts 'Msytery Ball'

Q.

contd... the horizsonatal seam therefore looking like the equator on a globe, whereas he seemed to me to say that the Benaud method, with the high arm action had the seam more upright. Given that people such as yourself who have rerad Grimmett's own books where he refers to the flipper as a topspun delivery rather than being underspun, it would indeed seem as though Philpott is vague on who used the flipper for what purpose.

Ans.....

* First the Flipper stuff.... As far as we can all ascertain reading Grimmetts 'Taking Wickets', Grimmett first came up with the idea of imparting the spin on the ball by clicking the fingers in the way that you would to the beat of music prior to 1930, in fact he was using this technique YouTube - Flipper Variation No 5 Clarrie Grimmetts 'Msytery Ball' in first class cricket in 1930 and this was the original Flipper and it's the Top-Spin version.

Grimmett was probably experimenting with the variation we all know that Shane Warne/Benaud did well with but seemingly didn't like it and seems to dismiss it in favour of the Slider. Philpott as I recall is similarly dismissive of the back-spinning Flipper when compared with the Slider. The slider we're talking of here is the real wrist spinners slider, the 'Round the loop' big flick back-spinner type.

With regards this delivery the seam leaves the hand (ll) in this fashion seam up with back-spin as it's bowled. I'm not sure how Benaud bowled the slider and he may have used one of the more Mickey Mouse techniques. I have to say at this point we're not big fans of Benaud because history suggests that he has over the years tried to lay claims to being the inventor of the back-spinning Flipper.

Interestingly if you read Bob Woolmers recent book - the art and science of cricket (Published posthumously) you'll see that Woolmer pays tribute to Grimmett in a way that I've not seen anywhere else, he even goes so far as to publish sections of 'Taking wickets' and 'Tricking the batsman', describing Grimmett as a genius if I remember rightly.


Q.

My point was that my reading of Philpott's suggestion of spinning the ball in towards the body or across the body is for the reasons you discussed in your last two videos. It seemed to me that some people on the forum were confusing this with his writings on flipper variants. For what little it's worth, my reading of his flipper discussion was that Grimmet used the flipper to generate backspin, but with a round arm action and the seam horizontal...

Ans.

Grimmett created the four Flippers using the 'Round the loop' theory that he uses to explain the wrist spin variations. Grimmett in his book 'Taking wickets' explains the 4 different flippers - offspin, Topspin, backspin and Legspin but only ever bowled the Top-Spinner variant in first class cricket and it's the ball that Bradman described as his Mystery Ball. Grimmett much the same as Warne was a master of deception not only on the field with his fingers and wrist but verbally too, always spinning a web verbally trying to get people to second guess what it was that he was up to. As far as we can make out Grimmett never favoured the back-spinning Flipper always preferring like Philpott the slider.

Q.

the horizsonatal seam therefore looking like the equator on a globe, whereas he seemed to me to say that the Benaud method, with the high arm action had the seam more upright. Given that people such as yourself who have rerad Grimmett's own books where he refers to the flipper as a topspun delivery rather than being underspun, it would indeed seem as though Philpott is vague on who used the flipper for what purpose.

Ans.

One of the conclusions that Macca, Saddo and I have come to and one that Grimmett himself alluded to shortly before he died was that no-one of any bowling consequence ever read his books, maybe it's because they are aimed specifically at youngsters (Taking wickets)? The text in much the same way that Philpotts book does is directed at the reader as if they are a youngster. Maybe this put people off of reading them or maybe they wouldn't be seen dead reading them? Who knows? But if you search for Grimmett material on the internet there's not a lot there. As mentioned previously it seems to be that only Woolmer has ever read the books and suggested how great a legacy they are to the art of wrist spin. Much of what Grimmett did and we now do is dismissed by both Ashley Mallett and Terry Jenner as being physically impossible including the Top-Spinning Flipper. Admittedly these deliveries have their place in club cricket, but as suggested by Grimmetts own frugal use of such deliveries and and the fact that they were tested over decades seems to suggest that Grimmett himself recognised their limitations. Ironically the back-spinning Flipper which is now used by all and sundry being disregarded by Grimmett.

With regards who bowls it on the forum, I think Gundalf uses the Top-Spinning Flipper in games as I do and will do a lot this coming season and I think Saddo bowls it as well with some success, but I'm not sure whether he's in a team I think he just bowls because he's fascinated by wrist spin bowling?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hollies in his book says that once when at a train station on the way to yorkshire, he bought a book by grimmett, "HOW TO BOWL LEG BREAKS" ( never heard of this. His captain, Rev Jack Parsons saw him and before he could read a line, took the book from him. He told him not to read how grimmett bowled, but rather to carry on bowling his own way. He never received formal coaching, but his father played with him, and was a leggie. He states that that was the last book on cricket he ever bought.

While on the subject, at least MacGill was given the grimmett books to read but someone in his family. And to be honest the more I see of him, the more I feel sorry he was born in the same time as warne.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

sadspinner;382669 said:
Hollies in his book says that once when at a train station on the way to yorkshire, he bought a book by grimmett, "HOW TO BOWL LEG BREAKS" ( never heard of this. His captain, Rev Jack Parsons saw him and before he could read a line, took the book from him. He told him not to read how grimmett bowled, but rather to carry on bowling his own way. He never received formal coaching, but his father played with him, and was a leggie.
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Saddo, do you know this website - South Africa vs England Day 5 Highlights 2nd Test Durban 2009 | Cricket Highlights Video it's a good un if you don't have sky or time to watch sky programs.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hollies also advices learning length and line before spinning, contrary to all other advice. Also states the usual practice in the nets for variable flight and pace. He bowled the slower deliveries by gripping the ball tighter.
He also suggests delivering slow loopy deliveries to defensive batsmen, trying to tempt them to play an attacking shot. But as Macca said, he describes this loopy ball as strawberries and cream for a well set batsman that uses his feet to get to the pitch of the ball. He also advices using this delivery against tail enders. Hollies continues that the slower it is the more it turns but the more time a good batsman has to use his feet, so he advices having a quicker ball.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

About field placement he used
W/keeper
slip
backward point
cover
extracover
mid off
mid on
short midwicket
deep square leg
short fine leg
When it was turning he moved extra cover to second slip and midwicket to silly mid on,
He brought backward point to silly mid off
if the batsman was not a leg side player he moved deep square leg to a second short leg
He says the other basic changes involved moving men into the deep field fro mid on and mid off, and deep square leg to deep mid wicket.
In the end he says when a couple of wickets fall, he considered 3 slips, a silly mid on and silly mid off for the new batsman, to put it in the batsmans mind that the ball is doing all kinds of things and worries himself into trouble--- he took dozens of wickets with this ploy
 
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