Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Paulinho, you have a young leggie borthwick with Durham, that seems to be your favoured side. Did you get to see him? I only saw him on TV in the 40 over games. He is still young. Will have to wait to see how he develops.

I've seen him a few times but like you only in limited overs.

he seems to be a lot like the other young english leggies who don't turn the ball a great deal but have good control and some variations (well suited for limited overs). I think I'm right in saying that they are all products of some sort of terry jenner coaching program which the ECB ran.

from what I've seen of all of them they all have a quite military action but this again is probably just me comparing every leggie I see with warne

 

[gundalf7]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

i've seen borthwick a few times as well, i'd say he has the best action of any of the english leggies more classical than say will beer and borthwick could a genuine all rounder, opens for his premier league side in durham, has scored 2 half centuries in 3 appearances for england under 19's as well though he did seem a bit out of his depth bowling at the end of last season, probablly just inexperience.

Kaneria is really inconsistent really though he shows what leg spin can do when he gets it right as he gets a lot of 5 wicket hauls.

On another note south africa have called up imran tahir for the last test against england so hopefully we will get to see another leg spinner coming on to the international stage(as long as england don't lose the game ).

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

hes not necessarily bad, his best deliveries are as good as anyones. hes just not as consistent as youd expect a top international player to be. ive seen him play on TV maybe 10 times now, and only 2 of those performances have been anything close to good, and both of them were still a scattering of poor deliveries with a good one thrown in here and there.
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In my books that sounds like a pretty good description of bad. He didn't look a lot of cop - horrible looking action and was being battered all over the park although I saw on the website he'd done quite well at Essex. Having said that I was joined on the field I practice on by a bloke that claimed to have been an apprentice at Essex up till last year. He had a knock about with us for about an hour and looked like a very good cricket player better than any I've seen at club level, but saying that he was troubled by my bowling - so maybe it's not that difficult hence Kanerias success at County level?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Staple was looking for the wrist spin thread hope he finds it. Welcome if you did.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

ive linked him to it, so he should find it shortly. another leggie joins the ranks. we seem to be multiplying lately, maybe all of Daves google work with his blogs is paying off lol.

Staple says he is a wicket keeper as well, so it might be useful to have his insight on that too. maybe we can get some tips to pass on to our own club keepers so they can get sharper at catches and stumping opportunities!!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

ive linked him to it, so he should find it shortly. another leggie joins the ranks. we seem to be multiplying lately, maybe all of Daves google work with his blogs is paying off lol.

Staple says he is a wicket keeper as well, so it might be useful to have his insight on that too. maybe we can get some tips to pass on to our own club keepers so they can get sharper at catches and stumping opportunities!!

Yeah a good keeper was one of the ten points list dave had going and Jenner stresses it as well. Poor old Kaneria found out about it the other day.

One thing kaneria does not lack is self belief. I loved how he was sticking it up fingerspinners saying anyone can bowl that stuff, but legspin is a special gift. They shove a microphone in front of him and he just talks a big game like you would not believe.

 

[Staple]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hello, happy to report that I found the thread

Don't really know if you guys would want my insight as a keeper since I'm only playing at school level, but I'd say I'm doing a modest job.

One thing you might want to pass on, and this I learned from a video I saw of Adam Gilchrist, and then another coach recommended it as well, and this works rather decently.

Most keepers squat down prior to a spin-bowler's delivery with their gloves on the baseline that runs along the stumps. Now what is suggested is that if you this is not working for you and you are struggling taking catches (and God knows how difficult it is to take a thickish edge when you are that close) you mark yourself a spot a bit more to the back.

They suggest you take 2 foot-lengths to the side of the stumps, and then you make a line with your spikes or whatever down that side wherever the second foot ends. So that you now have one vertical line running down about half-a-meter (depending on how big your feet are) to the side of the stumps. Then you do the same thing down the wickets to the boundary, so that you are able to make a horizontal line. Where the horizontal line and the vertical one meet, is where your gloves should be.

This gives you just a bit more space in which you can react, but I think it's mostly just a mental thing. It's a bit awkward at first because your balance should be a lot more on your toes if you still want to get those quick stumpings, and it's easy to lose your balance at the beginning, but later on it becomes second nature and it has really worked for me.

--

Thanks for the replies in the other thread I set up guys, the links really helped. One thing I want to ask about the grip is whether or not the thumb should be touching the ball at all?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

One thing I want to ask about the grip is whether or not the thumb should be touching the ball at all?

its a matter of preference. some people dont have their thumb anywhere near, others just rest it on the ball. and personally i use my thumb as an extra lever to generate more spin.

start out without your thumb on the ball, and then introduce it later. that way you strengthen your fingers up more and then when you add the thumb it just gives you another boost. thats how i started out. but ultimately just go with whatever feels right for you, there are no set rules in leg spin. everyone has their own methods.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

its a matter of preference. some people dont have their thumb anywhere near, others just rest it on the ball. and personally i use my thumb as an extra lever to generate more spin.

start out without your thumb on the ball, and then introduce it later. that way you strengthen your fingers up more and then when you add the thumb it just gives you another boost. thats how i started out. but ultimately just go with whatever feels right for you, there are no set rules in leg spin. everyone has their own methods.

Staple as Jim says we all have individual grips that we develop and change as we learn. Even in the last two weeks just flicking the ball indoors I've been experimenting with how much contact the 3rd finger has on the ball and I'm finding that the more finger I have on the ball and the longer it's there through the release action the more spin I get with very little effort. It has an effect that's like if you were to wrap a piece of string round a ball and then whip the string off.

You say you've watched the Warne and Jenner videos - they demonstrate the 2 fingers up 2 fingers down technique - that's it - that's your starting point. Use that and throw some balls and see how you get on. It's going to take you hours and hours of pratice unless you're one of these freaks that can simply do it straight away! Spin the ball hard and then start working on getting your line and length, don't worry about wrong uns, flippers and the like - just get your leg break.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Imran Tahir was set to play for S.Africa in the final test vs England. hes a leggie that plays for Hampshire. he didnt look that great when i saw him play last season, but he bowled a few very good deliveries in amongst some average ones. either way, it would have been nice to see a leggie playing in the test.

but it turns out hes not eligible to play for SA. hes Pakistani but has a S.African wife, S.Africa thought he was eligible, but he hasnt met the criteria yet so he cant play. so they are stuck with Paul Harris, the spinner that doesnt spin the ball. its good news for England, but bad news for spectators.

 

[Staple]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Haven't seen Imran Tahir yet. Paul Harris is so annoying. Unfortunately he takes wickets, but if you have a look at how he takes his wickets you'll note that 80% of them are bad decisions made on the batsman's behalf and not because he bowled good deliveries. JP Duminy has potential as a spinner, but I don't know if you'll agree with that. He definitely turns more than Harris.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Haven't seen Imran Tahir yet. Paul Harris is so annoying. Unfortunately he takes wickets, but if you have a look at how he takes his wickets you'll note that 80% of them are bad decisions made on the batsman's behalf and not because he bowled good deliveries. JP Duminy has potential as a spinner, but I don't know if you'll agree with that. He definitely turns more than Harris.

Duminy looks a good off spinner. the way hes been batting lately i should think his bowling is the only thing keeping him in the side lol. Harris is just awful to watch as a fellow spinner, hes a really bad advert for spin bowling. like you say, his wickets come from batsmens mistakes rather than magical deliveries. but on the other hand he bowls a consistent line and length and just stifles batsmen of runs, puts them under pressure, and then forces the mistake. thats obviously what works for him, its not pretty but it gets the job done sometimes. but Duminy is the SA spinner taking the important wickets now that the English batsmen have realised that Harris doesnt turn the ball.

are you from S.Africa?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Daan Van Bunge is playing for a local team just over the hill here. He was the dutch legspinner who got 6 6,s hit off him in one over by Herschelle Gibbs in a one day international. He has been getting a few wickets here this season. I will have to go check him out. I will report back.

It is still nearly 3 weeks till the junior season restarts. My son bowls 8 overs every day out in the middle on top of any other cricket he plays with his mates. He has to pitch it right up to these kids, especially the smaller ones, about 7 or 8 foot in front of them roughly. That seems a good length to 12 year olds.

I like to get behind the stumps with the gloves and check out each delivery for flight and length and especially watch the seam when we train without batsmen getting in the way.

We get plenty of free advise and coaching tips out in the middle where we practise. We had this old bloke, a coach and player , about my age, come up and give my son a big rave and lesson on the art of spin bowling.

He has taken umpteen hundred wickets and played rep cricket at district level in his day, so I thought this will be good. Only problem was he was a leftarm orthodox and knew stuff all about legspin. I had to get my son to disregard most of what he was telling us.

He was also one of these 'do what i say not what i do' coaches. He tried to get my bloke to run in dead straight, which does not work for him and cant pivot properly, but when he bowled to me he came in at a very strange angle himself. He bowled two half volleys to me and i danced down and smashed him for what would have been two boundaries straight past him all along the ground and he tried to sign me up for next season!

I told him if my son could play in the same team i would think about it. He reckons he is a little bit too young but I reckon my young bloke was a better bowler than him, only a lot slower, on what i saw that morning, but i am biased. And this bloke reckons he has been the leading wicket taker in this pub comp for a few seasons.

I have been doing a lot of bowling lately and reckon i am landing them and spinning them pretty good. I was bowling to a couple 3rd graders yesterday and neither could pick my wrongun, I bowled them both with wronguns. Still cant bowl a flipper but can still bowl a backspinner.

 

[scooter22]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hey guys, i have been trying for about a month now (patience i know), and i cant even get close to bowling a flipper. any advice would be appreciated, i may be doing everything wrong so probably best to start from the start.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hey guys, i have been trying for about a month now (patience i know), and i cant even get close to bowling a flipper. any advice would be appreciated, i may be doing everything wrong so probably best to start from the start.

Have you looked at my videos on youtube?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Just had the first net session of the season and got smashed all over the park by the club Leftie - also the best batsman in the club. Right handers though had them all over the shop!
Coming away from the session my initial response was that I need to get my wrong un going well in order that I can turn the ball away from the edge of the bat, but then I realised that I wasn't that aware of the shots he was playing other than the legside shots. I think I was on auto-pilot and was pitching the ball on what normally is the off-stump which in his case is his Leg Stump and he was just hammering me away to the legside. Because I can put the ball there again and again would there be in any point in having a legside set field and bowl like that - because the balls did seem to be catching the top edge and they were all primarily balls that went up and would have been potentially caught at Deep Sq Leg, square leg or backward of sq Leg. If I set a field that had blokes out there I could then bowl the wrong un so that he then has to contend with batting against the spin as well. What would that then force him to do? Or would he still try and bat like that?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

i need to get in touch with someone from my club to find out when our winter nets start. id imagine it will be very soon, if they havent already started.

i havent practiced in weeks, the snow is still pretty bad down here so theres no chance of outdoor practice until next week at least. more snow is forecast for wednesday, and the existing 6" has barely melted at all yet!!

if the snow clears a bit early next week on the roads then im going to have an indoor session at the local cricket centre. its expensive but probably worth it, i want to do some batting against the bowling machine as well. the only thing stopping me going down there already is the fact that its in the middle of nowhere and the roads are probably horrendous.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hey guys, i have been trying for about a month now (patience i know), and i cant even get close to bowling a flipper. any advice would be appreciated, i may be doing everything wrong so probably best to start from the start.

The other thing is do you have a good leg break yet, if not I think we'd all recommend that you stick with that first for this season and leave the flipper. Also if you're a youth you might find you'll cause yourself injuries (Tendons and ligaments) if you spend to much time bowling it.

 

[scooter22]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I have a leg break which a constantly work on, but which spins too much, and my smaller leg break bounces too much. my top spinner bounces too much as well. So i cannot hit the stumps (which is the most common form of dismissal at my level) or get an lbw. I have also heard it takes a long time to prefect, so i thought i would try to get a headstart to bowling a very good one.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

im not convinced theres such a thing as turning the ball "too much". Shane Warne and Stuart MacGill are fairly recent proof. they both turned the ball miles. theres also no such thing as too much bounce, especially against younger players. i bowl at a few of the kids at my club in the nets, some of them are fairly short. the extra bounce causes them real problems because its often above their waist! you can make use of both turn and bounce, the challenge is figuring out how to cause problems with it.

if you need to hit the stumps then you have 2 natural variations you can play on. the first is to aim the ball further outside leg stump so that it hits the stumps after it has turned. however it opens up easier shots to the batsman on the leg side, but if he misses then hes in trouble. it completely rules out LBW though. you can try it every now and again to try and catch the batsman by surprise and bowl him around his legs.

the second option is to bowl your big turning leg breaks one after another after another, maybe 4 in the first 4 balls of an over. by the time the 5th ball takes flight the batsman will have it set in his mind that its going to turn the same as those before it. when you place the ball in your hand, put the seam 90 degrees to where it would normally be, so that the seam is pointing down the wicket, instead of across it when you release it (e.g. the seam will be scrambled). bowl it exactly as you would your normal leg break. theres a very good chance it wont turn at all off the pitch, make sure you pitch it up to give the batsman less time to react, and aim it at middle and off stump. it will bounce straight through and bring bowled and LBW into play, and you dont need any kind of variation at all to bowl it, simply rotate the ball in your grip.

if you want to try and add the flipper then be mindful of the potential for damage if you practice it too much. it really does work the muscles in your forearm. i use the same muscles a lot for my work, so my forearms are fairly strong, and if i practice it between my hands for too long it sometimes starts to ache. try starting out with a tennis ball and just bowling it round arm at a wall (so you can see your hand whilst bowling it). dont worry about cricket balls across 22 yards just yet, work up to that later once youve mastered the grip and the finger click. daves videos are a good place to start for seeing how to grip the ball and impart the spin. because its such a different delivery to a leg break it can be hard to land the ball consistently on the seam, i rarely land it perfectly. if you miss the seam then it doesnt really stay low like it should. the scrambled seam leg break is a more consistent straight delivery, but it doesnt do anything special like stay low or bounce more. the backspun slider is the best straight-on delivery though IMO, the flipper gets a lot of hype but Warne looked to take a lot more wickets with the slider in his earlier days than he did with the flipper. a lot of the time the commentators called a flipper it was actually a slider or a leg break that didnt turn anyway. they just called every straight one a flipper.