Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

and a happy screw you too (kidding).

I'm going to go back to the place i belong now... and maybe bash shane watson a bit.... ya never know...
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

T.A Offspinner;382969 said:
and a happy screw you too (kidding).

I'm going to go back to the place i belong now... and maybe bash shane watson a bit.... ya never know...
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sorry, that wasnt a dig at you personally lol. just a bit of friendly offies vs leggies banter :D
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

In all seriousness, I seem to remember reading that the ICC rule had chanmged again. Apparently, after biomechanical analysis, it was realised that most bowlers have a bent arm. They realised that what makes a chucker a chucker is the straightening of the elbow prior to release. I think the new rule says something like "the bowler shall be no-balled if there is x% or greater straightening of the elbow in the immediate part of the bowling action prior to release" or something like that. On that basis, Botha is illegal; Murali isn't.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

You're opening a can of worms with this and as Jim said maybe better off discussed in the Off-spinner section, but I think they're all Aussies over there and they're not likely to cut Murali any slack.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;383002 said:
You're opening a can of worms with this and as Jim said maybe better off discussed in the Off-spinner section, but I think they're all Aussies over there and they're not likely to cut Murali any slack.
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No can opening from me, Dave (not intentionally, anyway). I just thought I'd mention something I'd heard, that's all. Of course, as Jim said, leggies are not as prone to such problems.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Was just having a look at wikipedia, more specifically the section on the elbow -- wikipedia is generally unreliable but perhaps sometimes enlightening.

Why are off-spinners more likely to "chuck" than leg spinners?

To paraphrase, the elbow joins two parts of the arm together. No surprises there. However the elbow at full extension does not form a straight line -- rather it is naturally bent. The elbow will cause an angle of the arm towards the thumb.

Now what's the relavant difference between leg spin and off spin? Side spin can be generated in leg spin with the thumb positioned at 6 o'clock -- because you are spinning it with the wrist. With the thumb positioned six o'clock, side spin cannot be generated as easily in offspin simply because your fingers are restricted by the position of your hand. To generate side spin then the off-spinner puts his thumb anywhere between 9 o'clock and 6 o'clock and hence the elbow naturally bends toward the bowler.

What's all the conjecture about the doosra then? To generate spin in the opposite direction the thumb has to be at 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock. The elbow therefore makes on angle of the arm away from the bowler. I suggest this is more obvious a bend to the eye than the off break simply because no other delivery in the world of cricket has the thumb, and hence elbow, in such a position. The doosra is probably shocking in this way also because of the high level of difficulty for the bowler -- it's unnatural and manufactured which probably also makes controlling the angle your arm that much harder.

Hence the arm bends more for finger spinners than wrist spinners due to the position of the thumb, and the natural physiology of the human elbow.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

doctortran;383023 said:
Was just having a look at wikipedia, more specifically the section on the elbow -- wikipedia is generally unreliable but perhaps sometimes enlightening.

Why are off-spinners more likely to "chuck" than leg spinners?

To paraphrase, the elbow joins two parts of the arm together. No surprises there. However the elbow at full extension does not form a straight line -- rather it is naturally bent. The elbow will cause an angle of the arm towards the thumb.

Now what's the relavant difference between leg spin and off spin? Side spin can be generated in leg spin with the thumb positioned at 6 o'clock -- because you are spinning it with the wrist. With the thumb positioned six o'clock, side spin cannot be generated as easily in offspin simply because your fingers are restricted by the position of your hand. To generate side spin then the off-spinner puts his thumb anywhere between 9 o'clock and 6 o'clock and hence the elbow naturally bends toward the bowler.

What's all the conjecture about the doosra then? To generate spin in the opposite direction the thumb has to be at 6 o'clock to 3 o'clock. The elbow therefore makes on angle of the arm away from the bowler. I suggest this is more obvious a bend to the eye than the off break simply because no other delivery in the world of cricket has the thumb, and hence elbow, in such a position. The doosra is probably shocking in this way also because of the high level of difficulty for the bowler -- it's unnatural and manufactured which probably also makes controlling the angle your arm that much harder.

Hence the arm bends more for finger spinners than wrist spinners due to the position of the thumb, and the natural physiology of the human elbow.
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That is a brief but excellent explanation as to why wrist spin is the purest form of bowling. Even the finest exponents of finger spin are teetering on the edge of pegging their stock ball.

Legspinners can deliver their flipper with the thumb at 3 o'clock and obtain an offbreak or legbreak depending on wrist position.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

So warnie does a cricket clinic for channel 9,s cricket show from the scg nets and the first email is from a young spinner that can spin a lot but cant land it. Warnes answer is practise bowling at targets. He lands 3 legbreaks dead on the target of sawdust on a good length on the stumps 9 foot from crease he has laid down. They all spun huge and fast as well.

Next question is where to bowl to lefthanders. Warne explains to bowl outside off stump and move in closer to stumps at delivery to give better angle. Gives demo

Someone asked him how to bowl a faster legbreak. Warne says best way is to lower arm and go more roundarm for faster ball. Like grimmetts ducks and drakes theory.

Another one asked how to bowl a slower loopier ball. Warne says the best way is to extend the windup , he demonstrates this to show how he did it. He extends the backswing by starting with the ball held out in front of his body where in his normal delivery he holds his hand more down by his side at the same point.

Warne demonstrated the thing he was showing steve smith was to get his shoulder rotating up and over rather than just around.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Yes Macca or anyone else if you find the link can you put it up, as here at work the ninemsn site and you tube are blocked. Hope Kaneria will get a good bowl in the second innings, would be interesting to hear warne comment on his bowling. Keep us posted Macca
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca, what channel does the Australian cricket show on? i may have a way of watching it through the internet if i know which channel its on.

Warne seems to be giving out loads of useful stuff lately, and none of it is winding up on youtube unfortunately.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Jim2109;383135 said:
macca, what channel does the Australian cricket show on? i may have a way of watching it through the internet if i know which channel its on.

Warne seems to be giving out loads of useful stuff lately, and none of it is winding up on youtube unfortunately.
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It is on channell9 during the lunchbreak of the test broadcast. It will end up on youtube eventually wont it? Now warnies a commentator you can email him questions and every so often he answers them in the nets with simon o donnell.

Yesterday he gave a good demo of his faster and slower ball and the vision is worth watching. The way he does both balls is how grimmett does it in his books. Warne says other people speed up or slow down their action or shorten or lengthen their delivery strides etc to bowl the faster or slower one but are too obvious. The best way he found to bowl a faster legbreak is too go more roundarm, but just a fraction. Then for your slower ball have the arm slightly higher and begin your upswing further out in front of your body when it has the back of the hand facing away from the bowler as you begin to come around with your delivery, lengthening the swing.

They had a bit of stuff about grimmett during the tea break with some old footage of him bowling legbreaks. Benaud was telling some of his grimmett stories.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

sadspinner;383123 said:
Yes Macca or anyone else if you find the link can you put it up, as here at work the ninemsn site and you tube are blocked. Hope Kaneria will get a good bowl in the second innings, would be interesting to hear warne comment on his bowling. Keep us posted Macca
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Warne said he is a big fan of Kaneria's bowling. The only slight criticism he had was he reckons he has to be more patient and not bowl all his variations every over but work away with his legbreak far more.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

macca;383149 said:
Here it is WWOS.com.au - Cricket
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i was literally about to post up that link, ive just watched all the videos on there. the quality is poor, but you get the idea from what Warne is saying.

macca, can you email in and ask Warne how many revs he puts on the ball, assuming hes ever measured it? and if he hasnt measured it, ask him to get the video guys to watch some slow motion footage and figure it out. i emailed in during the Ashes coverage but got no answer.

id love to know the revs he generates. Steve Smiths spinning action looks surprisingly lacking in spin to my eye. so i reckon he must generate a lot more in his actual bowling action with his wrist. he does end up with a very cocked wrist at the end of the delivery.

it does seem very surprising that hes on the verge of a test debut at anytime though. he looks like hes nowhere near ready for it at the moment. hes not taken that many wickets at state level, and he just doesnt look that ready, his action looks like it is still very much a work in progress. but at the same time i guess Warne started out in the exact same way. from what ive heard in the interviews it sounds like he is incredibly similar to Warne in every aspect of his cricket thus far. and having Shane Warne as a supporter id imagine is about the best career step any Australian leg spinner can take! hopefully he will get a place in the test side soon so we can see some proper TV footage of him in the UK. someone needs to kidnap Hauritz for a few days during the next test :D
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Jim2109;383150 said:
i was literally about to post up that link, ive just watched all the videos on there. the quality is poor, but you get the idea from what Warne is saying.

macca, can you email in and ask Warne how many revs he puts on the ball, assuming hes ever measured it? and if he hasnt measured it, ask him to get the video guys to watch some slow motion footage and figure it out. i emailed in during the Ashes coverage but got no answer.

id love to know the revs he generates. Steve Smiths spinning action looks surprisingly lacking in spin to my eye. so i reckon he must generate a lot more in his actual bowling action with his wrist. he does end up with a very cocked wrist at the end of the delivery.

it does seem very surprising that hes on the verge of a test debut at anytime though. he looks like hes nowhere near ready for it at the moment. hes not taken that many wickets at state level, and he just doesnt look that ready, his action looks like it is still very much a work in progress. but at the same time i guess Warne started out in the exact same way. from what ive heard in the interviews it sounds like he is incredibly similar to Warne in every aspect of his cricket thus far. and having Shane Warne as a supporter id imagine is about the best career step any Australian leg spinner can take! hopefully he will get a place in the test side soon so we can see some proper TV footage of him in the UK. someone needs to kidnap Hauritz for a few days during the next test :D
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Yeah smith is a work in progress. Warne said he "changed" the way smith rotates his upper arm and shoulder during the test match smith might well have played in. That is fundamental. Smith told warne he had a problem with too many long hops and warne got him to slow down his run-up get more side on and rotate his shoulder up and over.

Then warne watched smith bowl in the 2o/2o bash after his one on one with him and noticed smith was doing what he told him and took 4/13 or something like that.

The thing about smith is he can bat and field like a champion as well. Still historically too young to be test legspinner, you would think, but he might get his chance earlier than most. He has a good stock ball that turns on most decks and a really good fast flipper to start with.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

someblokecalleddave;383158 said:
Looking forward to maybe seeing him in the Ashes in your backyard then?
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He might be in your backyard later on this year first versus England and Pakistan.

You can buy gallery tickets for the jenner clinics at kingsgrove for $25. So coahes and such can watch his methods. Maybe you can do that at his clinic over there?
 
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