Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;359518 said:
I've read that book I don't know how many times now so all the theory is stored in my head somewhere. I think my big problems are some sessions everything falls into place and I can bowl where I want with the ball doing what i want and then a week later my body forgets how to bowl and things go to pieces. my biggest frustration is my leg break which varies from no turn when I'm really trying to put revs on the ball to dramtic 2 foot + turn without me seemingly putting any effort into it other than making sure my palm is facing down on release (this is something I struggle with and I think I bowl top spinners most of the time unless I concentrate on this). I'm sure practice is the key but like someone once said to me Shane Warne gets more practice in a week than most club cricketers do in a season.
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That's interesting to hear about Warnes practicing. I know absolutely nothing about Warne so it's good to hear that he does put the hours in. I'm waiting for a book from him similar to the likes of Grimmetts 'Taking Wickets' or Philpotts one that you've mentioned. It'd be brilliant to have him explain his theories in detail or better still make a really comprehensive DVD series where he explains everything in detail.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Mr_Cricket;359554 said:
Starting to practice my leg spin bowling more now since the start of outdoor season is near. The only experience i have had is at indoor cricket bowling my leg spinners. Just recently fix my grip up from spinning with my middle finger to now spinning with my ring finger which has improved my revs on the ball. Currently I'm just working through my problems.

1. Run up: my double back foot jump
2. line and length i keep pushing the ball leg side.

There the main problems at the moment i need to fix. Not going to bother with other variations until i get my stock leg spin ball going.
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Yeah - leave the variations and take it step by step. Have you seen the Beau Casson video clip that's on-line as there's a load of good stuff in that clip.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Mr_Cricket
one problem i had was i always used to push the ball down leg side
the cause was i did not have a strait run up when this was fixed no more going down there
 
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Thanks Dave I will take a look later on cant watch youtube at work.
By the "bound" think of Shane Warne's leap from the back foot onto his front foot. I based my action on his - not very original I know ;-)
 
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I used to bowl down the leg side and was given the useful advice that it was going down the leg side because I was bowling it there. That little gem really helped in making me try too hard and drag it down outside off stump

I later found that my front leg was bent at delivery so I was losing my balance and once I corrected this my leg side problem went away.

Might be worth making sure your front leg is braced when you deliver the ball and that your shoulders are rotating over each other and not around each other.

Hope that makes sense.
 
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Yeah it's a good model to copy, my 'Bound' into the rotation is a bit odd - you'll see in the clip, but it works for me. Loads of people say if your technique is unorthodox think Grimmett, Paul Adams for instance it doesn't mean that you have to change it. But I can't visualise what it is that you're doing, although my mate was pulled up by an umpire a few weeks ago because his leg that swings up and around the pivoting leg was going so wide that it was going outside the 'Return crease' File:Cricketpitchmswd.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i had a mammoth practice session today. i barely got any in last week because the first day i tried it was really humid and i wasnt bowling well and just got too frustrated and angry and called it quits after 20 mins lol. then it rained on my club practice evening and i was away for a stag weekend til sunday (which im still aching from lol). so today i put in about 2-3 hours, and it was very productive!

it took a while to find rhythm, off of 2 basic steps my bowling was good, fairly consistent, especially from about 16 yards. i can bowl the exact delivery i want near enough every time, and land it within probably 6" of my target, most of the time.

step back those 4 yards or so and things fell apart. the ball got sprayed high, wide on the leg side, dragged down onto the off side, dropped short, etc. with the occasional good ball. a major problem is that the nets i practice at are low in the first place, in a really poor state in terms of the netting and framework (the wicket is concrete but fairly consistent and very flat), and the front of the netting hangs down 2 feet on the right hand side. so anything flighted even slightly above normal ends up on top of the net, which is literally 1 ball in every 4. on a proper pitch they would be perfectly acceptable deliveries, im never afraid to flight it well up, theres no such thing as too much flight IMO so long as the ball isnt full toss or super slow.

anyway, i was really working on my run up and follow through, trying to nail it, as 2 steps from 20 yards or so just isnt enough power to bowl as full as i want to. i tried getting myself side on, front on, leaning into the delivery, staying upright. nothing was consistent. so i dropped short and bowled from there again, kept at it. i think ive finally found my issues though!!

1. i over analyse things too much. the less i think about the run up and follow through, the more natural it becomes, and the more success i seem to get.

2. i underestimated how crucially important it is to start your delivery action on the BACK FOOT!!! i wonder how many other people find this problem when they go from stepping into their deliveries to running into them. the forward momentum meant that i would transfer too much weight onto the front foot, even if i kept the leg straight, and this was resulting in minimal spin as i was leaning into the action. when i tried to stay upright i wouldnt rotate enough and everything would go high on the leg side. as soon as i realised that the big difference between stepping into deliveries and running into them was the weight distribution i nailed it.

so now i take a big final stride, get my front arm high to keep the weight rearwards (i now see why people always say its important to get the front arm high!!), then transfer my weight forwards WITH my arm movement, as well as rotating. i think its important that the trailing leg steps OVER the imaginary box, as when i had my weight forwards my rear leg would just flick up, and not round enough. i try to stay as upright as possible and this gives maximum rotation and results in the maximum spin on the ball. i find if i roll my shoulders over too much then my line is more consistent, but the ball just doesnt have the same number of rotations. i need to find a balance in between i think.

the end result is that ive rediscovered the same consistency, accuracy and large amounts of spin that i had 2-3 weeks ago when i was still bowling off of a one step run up. as soon as i started running i lost all of those things.

the only issue i still have is that overspun leg breaks are consistent, but hard spun big leg breaks can still spray a bit, i think its to do with my chest getting too square at the start of the delivery action. it needs more work. ive also lost the consistency of my slider, again i think this is the same issue. its because my palm isnt facing sideways, and i am dragging my arm around too much.

my small to medium leg breaks are spinning as much as my big leg breaks were when i wasnt running in, the ball is travelling much faster down the wicket, this in turn is giving me tons of genuine drift when i get one right (not wind assisted, there was no wind at all today, not even a breeze), and things are looking much improved again :D theres nothing as satisfying as a good productive practice session. and theres nothing worse than a really unproductive one where nothing goes right. confidence and mental strength are so important, when i get a few deliveries right my entire action improves. if i can find that mindset even when things are going wrong i think it will help a lot.

net practice on thursday against some decent batsmen hopefully, lets see if i can get some "wickets" and have them struggling with drift, turn and bounce :D
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Looking at the diagram you attached it appears that my right foot is somehow going wide of the bowling crease. Apparantly its fine if your front foot does it (North the Aussie part time spinner was doing this during the 1st Ashes test match) but its a no ball if your back foot goes cuts the side line. I think when I have been noballed my left shoulder may have been facing towards slip as opposed to side on or chest on. Thinking about it my back foot is probably going to the right somehow and then I am launching onto my left foot.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Drift - oh for some drift! I thought I saw one of mine drift today for the 1st time ever.

I had a good session as well it was broken up into three sessions of about an hour or so each with a couple of hours in between each.

Have a look - Wrist Spin Bowling: The Biggun

Jim point 1. about the run up is crucial. Your run up needs to be smooth and fluid and of no consequence at all, it's something you need to get sussed to the point that you don't even think about it as you bowl.
 
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I haven't got a clue what you mean, I'll have to knock up a diagram upload it to my blog and you'll have to tell me where your feet are. I'll do it later as I'm out for another practice now.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;359728 said:
Drift - oh for some drift! I thought I saw one of mine drift today for the 1st time ever.

I had a good session as well it was broken up into three sessions of about an hour or so each with a couple of hours in between each.

Have a look - Wrist Spin Bowling: The Biggun

Jim point 1. about the run up is crucial. Your run up needs to be smooth and fluid and of no consequence at all, it's something you need to get sussed to the point that you don't even think about it as you bowl.
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something to ponder on your big leg break - i find that the biggest turn i acheive is actually with a backspun slider with about 45 degrees of side spin on it. so the principal of backspin is a major component, my slider when it comes out like this can almost spin around a corner! a 90 degree side spun leg break however almost never turns. ive been watching lots and lots of shane warne videos and his rarely turn either...

if you watch all of the greatest shane warne wicket videos on youtube, of which there are plenty, listen to the commentators. even richie benaud says in one "thats as perfect a slider as youll ever see". the ball goes dead straight and stays fairly low. then watch it again. the seam is a perfect 90 degrees and spinning like mad in flight!! i just dont think that there are many pitches at all that take to a perfect 90 degree seam, especially concrete, artificial wickets, and very hard flat grass wickets. footholes, softer wickets and outfield grass are probably the exception.

im not sure what sort of seam angle your big leg break consists of. but it may be worth trying to get some accurate video of the ball in flight over an hour or so of practice so that you can compare the ones that turn with the ones that dont. my 45-60 degree seam (e.g. more side spin than overspin) deliveries seem to be the largest conventional leg breaks. my slider when it comes out sideways is by far the largest turner of all my deliveries though. it seems that the more backspin you get on the ball, upto a point, the more friction is produced off the wicket, the more speed is taken off of the ball, and thus it is able to impart more sideways movement, with less forward momentum. the end result being a ball that quite literally turns around corners. it also does so with an incredibly unusual bounce. ive already pictured purposes for it...

e.g. bowl maybe 3 heavily top spun (for added bounce!) leg breaks outside leg stump. hopefully the batsman figures out the 3rd one and smashes it for a 4 on the leg side. bowl one more. then bowl the sliding delivery but pitch it up a little further. hopefully the batsman will expect it to bounce up to his waist, play over the top of the ball by a good foot, and it will bowl him round his legs for probably the most embarassing wicket a leg spinner can take :D
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Frodo27;356579 said:
Leg spin is all about relaxation and rhythm, 90% is in the head.

I'd recommend lying down, listening to music with a good beat, if things go wrong in the nets. When things go bad you tense and they get worse until the dam ball sticks in your fingers and squirts out to mid wicket.

In a game, do the same as I do in golf, before every ball big breath and relax/drop shoulders on exhale.

These routines also work for swing bowling, although I only ever was decent at legspin.

ps. Always have a man on the square leg boundary ;)
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the relaxation think is 100% the problem i was having. i was even walking to collect the balls i had just bowled talking to myself telling myself to relax and loosen up, trying to relax all my muscles. it wasnt working though, and when it did i still had this weird wrist flick. almost like my wrist was TOO relaxed. i think its more likely that my fingers and my arm werent relaxed enough. i was dragging deliveries down which was the biggest indicator to me that i wasnt relaxed, and i wasnt generating as many revs as i was previously.

as well as figuring out some strengthening exercises for the relevant muscles, and also good warm up exercises, i think i need to learn some relaxation methods as well. il be sat on the boundary rope looking like buddha meditating between deliveries when im not bowling haha

as for field placings, square leg boudary is one ive always thought of as a natural position for my bowling. ive actually already been thinking about field placings, for some strange reason. id always want 2 slips, a gulley and a leg slip for close fielders. leg slip wouldnt be required if i was consistent, but lots of my deliveries end up going that way and it would give me peace of mind, plus a batsman might try hitting one into the leg side and edge it. id want nobody at all in the mid-off region just because the drive is about the best chance we as leg spinners have of taking wickets! it cant be encouraged enough IMO!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Well it has taken me awhile to realise this but I think I may have wasted a year.

I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ve been using the technique that Dave described as “The Cocked Wrist with the straightening of the hand at release” on his excellent webpage Legspin bowling I had believed that I was using the “The real leg break with the flick” but sadly not.

I’ve found that for me this was very accurate but I couldn’t really product a leg break with much turn and a big leg break was out of the question. Basically I’ve been bowling top spinners because anatomically I can’t get my wrist around enough to get the seam in the right position for a leg break.

As you can imagine this was very frustrating as I couldn’t understand at the time why. So I watched the Cloverdale Cricket Masterclass on leg spin for the 100th time, this has really good slow motion images of Shane Warne bowling the various deliveries (although his head is blurred out for some reason). Having watched it I realised that the as usual I have been over thinking and over complicating the whole thing and that the mechanics of the grip in combination with getting your hand in the correct position just after release produces the delivery you want. You must all be thinking what a dummy at this point and rightly so, but as I should have realised long ago if you get all the levels working you can get massive spin on the ball without trying that hard at all really.

So went to nets an hour early so I’d have the place to myself and decided to forget all I was doing before and try what I’d seen cocked wrist, loose grip concentrating on my palm facing down and fingers pointing at the batsman on release and low and behold a leg break pitched outside leg hitting middle. Them same again this time with the fingers sort of pointing towards second slip so the ball is spinning back into the body like Peter Philpott describes and probably the biggest leg break I’ve ever bowled, outside leg missing off stump by some way. I was spraying it around a lot but did bowl more “ball of the century” type deliveries that I think I may have done in a season in one hour. All the variations were pretty simple as well, slider comes out nicely using a sort of karate chop finish wrong’un and top spinner. If I’d picked all of this up a year ago I might be quite a handy leg spinner by now but back to the start for me I think.

Moral of the story read Peter Philpott’s book properly and follow the stages in it properly. And possibly get someone who knows what they are talking about to watch you, I think if I’d taken a video of myself I may have figured this all out much earlier. The funny thing is I do know all of this stuff and could probably spot it in someone I was watching but couldn’t apply it to myself at all.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

On an another thread they are paying out on stuie macgill and moe mathews on the sbs tv commentary team for the ashes.

But for the spin bowlers out there they have been giving one long masterclass on spinbowling all through the test match. Greg Mathews is using a ball to demonstrate the different deliveries and is dispensing great lessons in the art of spinbowling.

Macgill is displaying his intellectual approach to bowling and when the pair of them analysed the spinners in the match they really did it better than anyone else could i reckon.

I always turn the sound off when watching the cricket but i will turn it up when macgill and mathews come on to talk

but really none of the others are worth listening to except maybe Mike Atherton who brings up lots of interesting stuff and of course he was a back of the hand merchant so we would expect that.
 
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Cheers for the endorsement! Glad to hear you're doing so well, unfortunately I haven't got a camera that'll record the ball in flight with that much detail. But I'm quite happy at the moment with this new 'Relaxed grip, cocked wrist and unfurl/flick' approach that I was using yesterday. I'll give it a go tonight and see how it works. Keep us posted on how you get on with yours over the next few weeks. Do you play for a team and are youo going to get a chance to try this out in the next couple of weeks?

Yep - always have a look at Philpotts book if you're having problems and read through the 8 stages to refresh your memory on the theory.

I like both these two posts that are before mine as they both have got results through the use of back-spinning the ball during the delivery of the Leg-Break as described by Philpott. So many people have refuted this as nonesense, but here again are 2 blokes as living evidence that it works!!! (Just wish I could do it)! LOL.


Added later..........

I've just looked at the cloverdale clip, not realising that the footage was of Warne before, but looking at that and seeing the partial angle of the spin rather than the expected 90 degree that I'd have expected is interesting. As said above, a 90 degree rotation to the wicket would be less effective at speed as the forward motion would negate some of the sideways spin potential. A more lofted ball that was slower would probably be the better option if you're using the ball spinning at 90 degrees? I reckon I need to look at using the ball at a slightly less acute angle, but I reckon this is what may have happened yesterday, because the spin was good, but the bounce caused by the top-spin that was inadvertently being put on it mean that it was bouncing exceptionally well.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I am currently reading a biography by duckworth on SF Barnes one of the best bowlers ever. In it are pictures of Barnes' grip. He gripped the ball with thumb and all the other 4 fingers with the index and middle finger slightly more apart. The grip looks like the one on philpotts book of the very young child gripping the ball on page17.

Duckworth says that he used to bowl the fast leg and offbreaks with this grip, sometimes destroying parts of the pitch with the spin. The funny thing is he bowled the topspinner with the same grip.... but the little side of the finger and hand faced the bat. Duckworth says that he did not deliver the topspinner as leggies do from the back of the hand but rather from the front of the hand. From the picture it looks sort of like grimmetts ball. Could he have been the pioneer not grimmett? Sorry do not have a scanner to post the pictures. I am sure Macca you would have seen the pictures. What do you think?
 
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like you say the smaller leg break often carries better and just beats the bat putting doubt in the batmans mind where as the bigger leg break bowled too quickly can pop up and be pullable if you get it even a little short.

From my personal experience I have found that one of the things playing on a wrist spinners mind is pace and mostly lack of it. Listening to Warne talking about Swann in the ashes he said he was surprised that Swann was able to spin the ball so much at the pace he bowls which is in the high 50's 60mph area.

Warne who could spin big as you all know said that between 47 and 50mph was his idea pace for maximum spin or turn of the pitch anyway, but stressed that it's different for everyone.

I'm definitely guilty of trying to bowl too fast for fear of getting smacked around and sacrificing spin but as you probably all know there is a fine line between being a pie chucker and bowling flat flightless deliveries that don't trouble the batsman at all. That said I found yesterday that the big leg break that we talked about (bowled into the body) can produce really dramatic turn when bowled flat and with a bit more pace.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Nothing new here but found this by Danish Kaneria. YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling Leg Spin

And also this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5YwERlf_yc&NR=1


And a strange way of bowling the flipper. Does not seem like the one we know. Looks like he is saying it is only a straight one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tigGj3Uh2j4&feature=related

Dave do you think you can add them to your site?

This is quite well put together too, even though the last ball looks like a small leg break not slider. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Cs0Lg-Ri8I
 
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my son and his mates have worn a cricket ball out in three days at school! I could not believe the state of the ball after they had finished with it.

He has taken two wickets with his flipper from two attempts, but i dont want him to bowl a flipper yet.

I got him to bowl his flipper in the nets yesterday and it is going ok considering how little time we spend on that particular ball.

He got me a few times with his topspinner yesterday. I played for the break and got done every time.
 
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My wrong un is coming back. Have a look at this video, I bowled 3 or 4 of these and then turned the video on and got this one and then started to try too hard and couldn't quite get it to go so big again, but I'll work on it more and get it more consistent. YouTube - Big Wrong Un

I also filmed a sequence of 12 balls bowling the Grimmett mystery ball. Because of the quality of the video the file size is enormous the clip above was 90MB and took 1/2 and hour to upload! The other thing is that the hand disappears out of the top of the frame in the footage so, how much merit there would be in uploading it to see it is disputable? But of all the Flipper variations that I bowl it is the one with the most audible click of the fingers and I'm growing to like it. I've still not used it in a game consistently, but it's getting to the point where I'll be confident to do so soon. I'm not sure of it's merits but it's certainly different to any of the other balls I bowl. As to how much it rushes on I'm unsure.
 
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Good work by the young'un there. My son's lost it completely at the moment, for some reason he's decided to bowl seam up and round arm like Malinga and he rarely gets the ball on the wicket yet up till yesterday he's refused to listen to my advice and gets stroppy when I try and help him. But last night he spent half hour listening and trying to correct it and could see that there was an improvement, so hopefully he'll see the light?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;356693 said:
Nothing new here but found this by Danish Kaneria. YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling Leg Spin

And also this YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling the Googly/Doosra


And a strange way of bowling the flipper. Does not seem like the one we know. Looks like he is saying it is only a straight one. YouTube - BigHitterMag.com Danish Kaneria's Master Class. Bowling the flipper

Dave do you think you can add them to your site?

This is quite well put together too, even though the last ball looks like a small leg break not slider. YouTube - The Art & Science Of Shane Warne
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Yeah definitely, but I've got to point out that as you've said the bloke is talking out of his Jacksy when he demo's 'The Flipper' where he's got that idea from I don't know, he's obviously too busy flying from one country to another to sit and read Grimmetts 'Taking wickets' 1930 to understand the origins and technique behind the Flipper and again I have to make the point that these blokes simply haven't a clue about Wrist Spin history and the multitudes of variations. If anything the one he demo's as a Flipper is more akin to the slider surely?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;359851 said:
like you say the smaller leg break often carries better and just beats the bat putting doubt in the batmans mind where as the bigger leg break bowled too quickly can pop up and be pullable if you get it even a little short.

From my personal experience I have found that one of the things playing on a wrist spinners mind is pace and mostly lack of it. Listening to Warne talking about Swann in the ashes he said he was surprised that Swann was able to spin the ball so much at the pace he bowls which is in the high 50's 60mph area.

Warne who could spin big as you all know said that between 47 and 50mph was his idea pace for maximum spin or turn of the pitch anyway, but stressed that it's different for everyone.

I'm definitely guilty of trying to bowl too fast for fear of getting smacked around and sacrificing spin but as you probably all know there is a fine line between being a pie chucker and bowling flat flightless deliveries that don't trouble the batsman at all. That said I found yesterday that the big leg break that we talked about (bowled into the body) can produce really dramatic turn when bowled flat and with a bit more pace.
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I reckon I bowl between really slow 35mph and 45mph which I've been measured at. I might be faster but I reckon generally 40mph - ish? Varying the speed's important rather than bowling fast all the time. Watching Swann though - it's obvious that he doesn't get a lot of turn, but I'd imagine with the limitations on fingers spinners options they can't weave the web of trickery that we do and therefore use slower balls in the same way?
 
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someblokecalleddave;356621 said:
Don't you bowl any more Frodo? Sounds like good advice though, I might post that up on my Leg Spin blog. This is all good stuff for me as this is the part I'm learning now - how to recognise weaknesses and adapt your bowling to the batsman. What do you do with Left handed batsmen that are strong off the legs?
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Naa.......at 57 I'm more into gardening :p

I coached juniors and up to under 19's but gave that up. Had some great times down the WACA when my sons were learning the game. Got to know a lot of the players.

The leggy has more tricks in his book than any other bowler, and that's why it's the best, the very best. Get your captain and others to look for oddities of the batsman, you can't see it all. High back lift, slip the flipper in. Is he batting outside his crease so he can go back and pull or cut?

And is there bounce in the pitch? Then the sillies may come into play.

Left handers.....mmm.......freakish sods. Get out of the attack if on a synthetic track, but on a proper wicket just aim for the footmarks. Flipper for lbw. Googly for slip catch.

I also had success with what i called the finger ball. Easy to pick up, as it's not leg spin, if they last that long. Just surprises them, and is simple. Just one finger down the seam , pointing straight at the batsman, shiny side to off. Just amble to the crease focusing on a spot about a metre and a half in front of the batsman on middle and off. Then rip your finger down the seam and give it a bit of air. The backspin will defeat the swing until it drops, the batsman will play forward and the late swing will push it through any gate (sic) he wants to leave open. Like a golf fade.
 
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Dave, how do you bowl your wrong'uns so well? its not a delivery ive put any significant time into, ive tried to bowl maybe 20 in total out of probably 3-4000 balls so far! i had a go for a few minutes yesterday as things were going well with my leg breaks, and i just cant do it. yet!

i can picture exactly what i want to do, exactly how my arm should move, my follow through, etc. i can do a slow motion walk through of it without releasing the ball, all the angles and everything look good. i can bowl one straight into the side of the net, and the ball looks ok. yet as soon as i release one down the wicket it ends up a small leg break!

ive studied the round the loop theory, etc in depth, my problem isnt in my head in terms of lack of knowledge or thought about the technique. my problem is that i just cant get the ball to come out spinning in the direction im aiming for! any thoughts about how you first got yours working? you spin the ball more in the wrong direction than many of the pros, so i figure you must be doing something that they arent lol.

ive tried it straight arm, bent arm, vertical arm, round arm, all sorts of wrist angles. none feel any better than the others or have any improvement on the end result. im almost tempted to develop my flipper into a wrong'un lol, since it can produce near enough the same revolutions as my leg break/top-spinner. obviously it would be pickable though. so id like to try and get a proper wrong'un working, even if its really small. i can work on turn, but at present i cant even present the ball in an off spinning manner!
 
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What do we all reckon to putting in Wrist Spinners as openers? I was used as an opener in my last match and was storming along till I came up against a leftie. But up till that point I was doing well. I've posted this on another thread - what do you reckon?

"Whether I'll be put in again to bowl against the openers remains to be seen, but I'm well up for it and actually think as a strategy it has it's merits. In the last game the team we played seemed to think that they had a really strong fast bowling attack and it struck me if that was the case the whole team would have spent the whole of their winter nets batting against their fast bowlers? Therefore the whole of the winter for their openers would have been based around the idea that they're expecting to face pace openers. You should have seen the fear on these blokes faces when they realised that I was opening with spin. I cleaned up both of them for 1 run in 3 overs - 2 x wicket maidens. They just didn't expect it and weren't prepared for spin going both ways, backwards, forwards, slow, fast, looping, skidding and most of all - accurate".

Because it's club cricket we batted first and then used the old ball to commence our bowling, whether that's standard practice or not I don't know, but my captain did say that if had been a new ball he wouldn't have used me in that way. I can see the rationale behind his thinking but I practice with shiny water-proofed balls and still get them to turn, as long at there's a raised seam the ball is going to turn. But that aside what about the strategy of using spinners against openers that wouldn't possibly be prepared for an opening attack of spin?
 
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Mate - you've got to be careful with the Wrong Un otherwise you'll end up with the dreaded 'Googly Syndrome'. I read recently somewhere (it was either Ashley Mallett or CV Grimmett) that bowling out of the back of your hand as you do with the wrong un is a far more natural way. As we all know bowling the Leg Break is a task and half to do well, but given the effort, practice and time you 'Wire' your brain so that what is a wholly un-natural way to throw a ball eventually becomes a technique that you can master. What I did was learn a very modest leg-break and then I decided that I'd learn the Wrong Un because I could see the value of it. So I committed myself to doing it and over a period of about 2 - 3 months I did nothing but bowl the wrong un and it worked. 3 months later I could bowl a killer wrong un that turned and fizzed like mad. Thing was I then tried to bowl a Leg Break and couldn't. No matter what I did the ball turned from Off to Leg. I'd 100% lost my leg break.

This is from another of my blogs - this one was a diary of how to rectify the 'Googly Syndrome' Wrist Spin Bowling: The Googly Syndrome

It took me 8 months of not bowling anything but leg breaks to get my Leg Break back. I honestly don't know what to suggest as a way of quickly acquiring the Wrong Un without screwing up your Leg Break. Philpott says to try it every so often. Maybe have an over of it every now and then, but honestly straight away check your Leg Breaks okay before you pack up. I bowl a wrong un every 10 balls I reckon and have an over every now and then.

I actually bowl it in 2 ways. The Big Flick method which gives it ridiculous amounts of turn off the wicket and this comes about usually by bowling what feels like a Top Spinner but with the big flick. But the more accurate version is more like a very loose grip in the hand but with the 3rd finger planted on the seam and it's just bowled out of the twisted up-side down wrist, when it goes you can feel it come off the 3rd finger like a 'Beaut' and it spins so well. Wish I could bowl the Leg Break with such ease and readily achieved spin. Maybe you have to go through that agony of losing your leggie and re-learning it in order to get a Killer Wrong Un?

With regards the arm definitely vertical 100%
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;356868 said:
What do we all reckon to putting in Wrist Spinners as openers? I was used as an opener in my last match and was storming along till I came up against a leftie. But up till that point I was doing well. I've posted this on another thread - what do you reckon?

"Whether I'll be put in again to bowl against the openers remains to be seen, but I'm well up for it and actually think as a strategy it has it's merits. In the last game the team we played seemed to think that they had a really strong fast bowling attack and it struck me if that was the case the whole team would have spent the whole of their winter nets batting against their fast bowlers? Therefore the whole of the winter for their openers would have been based around the idea that they're expecting to face pace openers. You should have seen the fear on these blokes faces when they realised that I was opening with spin. I cleaned up both of them for 1 run in 3 overs - 2 x wicket maidens. They just didn't expect it and weren't prepared for spin going both ways, backwards, forwards, slow, fast, looping, skidding and most of all - accurate".

Because it's club cricket we batted first and then used the old ball to commence our bowling, whether that's standard practice or not I don't know, but my captain did say that if had been a new ball he wouldn't have used me in that way. I can see the rationale behind his thinking but I practice with shiny water-proofed balls and still get them to turn, as long at there's a raised seam the ball is going to turn. But that aside what about the strategy of using spinners against openers that wouldn't possibly be prepared for an opening attack of spin?
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If you can land it consistently then it is always a good idea to change it up and open with a spinner every now and again. A lot of opening batsmen aren't good players of spin bowling and will be reluctant to play shots, or try and hit you out of the attack. Both of these can create wicket chances and also put the pressure on.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;359855 said:
my son and his mates have worn a cricket ball out in three days at school! I could not believe the state of the ball after they had finished with it.

He has taken two wickets with his flipper from two attempts, but i dont want him to bowl a flipper yet.

I got him to bowl his flipper in the nets yesterday and it is going ok considering how little time we spend on that particular ball.

He got me a few times with his topspinner yesterday. I played for the break and got done every time.
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Just read this again. If my kids took a cricket ball to school there'd be hell to pay what with all the mamby pamby H&S rubbish that goes on these days, I don't think they're even allowed to have tennis balls let along the plastic training balls!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;357196 said:
Another good day at the office 6.4 - 4 - 8 - 3 so that will go towards improving my figures rather than damaging them. For the basic details - Wrist Spin Bowling: That'll do nicely G&CCC v SLHCC and the rest of the blog will be updated over the next few days with pic's and an account of the match.
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Good to hear the positives coming from you there, Dave.

Its been a long long while since I've visited here, due to a very very dodgy shoulder I've not yet played a game this season, looks like it'll be the final few games just batting for me!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;359872 said:
Mate - you've got to be careful with the Wrong Un otherwise you'll end up with the dreaded 'Googly Syndrome'. I read recently somewhere (it was either Ashley Mallett or CV Grimmett) that bowling out of the back of your hand as you do with the wrong un is a far more natural way. As we all know bowling the Leg Break is a task and half to do well, but given the effort, practice and time you 'Wire' your brain so that what is a wholly un-natural way to throw a ball eventually becomes a technique that you can master. What I did was learn a very modest leg-break and then I decided that I'd learn the Wrong Un because I could see the value of it. So I committed myself to doing it and over a period of about 2 - 3 months I did nothing but bowl the wrong un and it worked. 3 months later I could bowl a killer wrong un that turned and fizzed like mad. Thing was I then tried to bowl a Leg Break and couldn't. No matter what I did the ball turned from Off to Leg. I'd 100% lost my leg break.

This is from another of my blogs - this one was a diary of how to rectify the 'Googly Syndrome' Wrist Spin Bowling: The Googly Syndrome

It took me 8 months of not bowling anything but leg breaks to get my Leg Break back. I honestly don't know what to suggest as a way of quickly acquiring the Wrong Un without screwing up your Leg Break. Philpott says to try it every so often. Maybe have an over of it every now and then, but honestly straight away check your Leg Breaks okay before you pack up. I bowl a wrong un every 10 balls I reckon and have an over every now and then.

I actually bowl it in 2 ways. The Big Flick method which gives it ridiculous amounts of turn off the wicket and this comes about usually by bowling what feels like a Top Spinner but with the big flick. But the more accurate version is more like a very loose grip in the hand but with the 3rd finger planted on the seam and it's just bowled out of the twisted up-side down wrist, when it goes you can feel it come off the 3rd finger like a 'Beaut' and it spins so well. Wish I could bowl the Leg Break with such ease and readily achieved spin. Maybe you have to go through that agony of losing your leggie and re-learning it in order to get a Killer Wrong Un?

With regards the arm definitely vertical 100%
Click to expand...

ive read most of your blog in great depth, and read about your struggles with the googly syndrome. so its something i definitely dont want to replicate. thats why im seriously limiting the practice i put in on my variations. even top spinners and back spinners, they might be the same sort of wrist action, but it wont be hard for all my deliveries to end up as top spinners if i overdo it!

so im trying to learn the wrong'un for maybe 10 deliveries in every 200-300. in other words an over or 2 every individual practice session (i dont use anything in the nets to a batsman until it is consistent). i just cant get it to work at all. although if it took you 3 months of solid practice to get it good, that gives some reassurance, as i was kinda of just expecting it to click - the leg break, top spinner, flipper and slider all did to some extent, the ball would go in the right direction, just not work very effectively. the wrong'un just doesnt come out at all, except by accident on occasion, and im more convinced that it is drift without turn that causes the ball to move inwards, as opposed to pure turn off of the pitch.

il have to just keep throwing in occasional deliveries, il try to keep my arm more vertical and see if that helps.

how is your wrist positioned?

e.g. for a 90 degree leg break the hand starts palm facing you, fingers around horizontal, and ends palm facing batsman, fingers still around horizontal, the hand has just come over the top, the wrist has rotated anti clockwise as you look at it.

im thinking that it has to go anti clockwise on the wrong'un too, in order to impart proper spin, the fingers alone arent enough. which in my eyes means the hand has to start underneath, fingers pointing downwards, palm facing you, it then rotates anti clockwise so that the palm ends up facing sideways away from you, fingers horizontal. the problem here is that too much wrist carries the ball back around, making it a small leg break instead. i think this is the issue i have, maybe i need to think smaller and aim for something ever so slightly past a top spinner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Mate! I was just thinking about you an hour or so ago, thinking exactly that - where's Simbazz I haven't heard or seen anything of him on here for months? Man, have I been busy on here as you might have noticed and with my own blogs, but I'm loving it. Everything came together in May this year, I sussed the Leg Break, read a few books by Clarrie Grimmett and now I'm statistically the best bowler on my team as far as I can figure out!!! Good to hear from you - how is your shoulder?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim - hold your arm out in front of you so that the palm is facing the floor and twist the whole arm anti-clockwise 180 degrees almost so your plam is facing the ceiling. You dip your shoulder more in the delivery and the ball comes out of the had in that position. I was bowling it for hours and hours and almost damaged my rotator cuff. The rotator cuff got so bad that I wasn't able to raise my arm level with my shoulder in the mornings and it was continually sore, but I am 49 so it may not affect you so badly.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Danish Kaneria lets it rip | Photo | Sri Lanka v Pakistan 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Hey Guys, was just wondering on cricinfo and found this pic. It shows a perfect wrist position for setting up to bowl the legbreak. Now after looking at his front arm a question arises. Just like fast bowlers they delay their bowling arm for a while then propel it as soon as the front arm comes down and is tucked into the rib , is this what Kaneria is doing here?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;359876 said:
ive read most of your blog in great depth, and read about your struggles with the googly syndrome. so its something i definitely dont want to replicate. thats why im seriously limiting the practice i put in on my variations. even top spinners and back spinners, they might be the same sort of wrist action, but it wont be hard for all my deliveries to end up as top spinners if i overdo it!

so im trying to learn the wrong'un for maybe 10 deliveries in every 200-300. in other words an over or 2 every individual practice session (i dont use anything in the nets to a batsman until it is consistent). i just cant get it to work at all. although if it took you 3 months of solid practice to get it good, that gives some reassurance, as i was kinda of just expecting it to click - the leg break, top spinner, flipper and slider all did to some extent, the ball would go in the right direction, just not work very effectively. the wrong'un just doesnt come out at all, except by accident on occasion, and im more convinced that it is drift without turn that causes the ball to move inwards, as opposed to pure turn off of the pitch.

il have to just keep throwing in occasional deliveries, il try to keep my arm more vertical and see if that helps.

how is your wrist positioned?

e.g. for a 90 degree leg break the hand starts palm facing you, fingers around horizontal, and ends palm facing batsman, fingers still around horizontal, the hand has just come over the top, the wrist has rotated anti clockwise as you look at it.

im thinking that it has to go anti clockwise on the wrong'un too, in order to impart proper spin, the fingers alone arent enough. which in my eyes means the hand has to start underneath, fingers pointing downwards, palm facing you, it then rotates anti clockwise so that the palm ends up facing sideways away from you, fingers horizontal. the problem here is that too much wrist carries the ball back around, making it a small leg break instead. i think this is the issue i have, maybe i need to think smaller and aim for something ever so slightly past a top spinner.
Click to expand...


Having found recently that I can bowl a big leg break by simply letting the mechanics of the grip spin the ball by going from a cocked wrist (holding the ball like you would eating an apple) to my palm down parallel with the floor fingers pointing at the batsman I thought I'd try this with the variations as well.

The wrong'un came out nicely spinning hard by using the same technique with the back of the hand down parallel with the floor (although not quite as I'd probably dislocate my shoulder doing that). The slider is like a karate chop and the top spinner being a karate chop with the thumb pointing to the floor.

At the moment these are all really exaggerated hand movements and consistency and accuracy are an issue as I’m sort of starting a fresh with this action. But it does produce massive spin which is a good place to start from.
 
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