Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ripping-LegBreak;357407 said:
Danish Kaneria lets it rip | Photo | Sri Lanka v Pakistan 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Hey Guys, was just wondering on cricinfo and found this pic. It shows a perfect wrist position for setting up to bowl the legbreak. Now after looking at his front arm a question arises. Just like fast bowlers they delay their bowling arm for a while then propel it as soon as the front arm comes down and is tucked into the rib , is this what Kaneria is doing here?
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I can't comment too much, as my action is completely different, at the point where his bowling arm is, my leading arm would be directly out in front of me at this point in line with the throwing arm, so to me this looks odd. The only thing I would say is that everyone finds their own way that suits them eventually and if anyone sees this has having potential, the thing to do is try it yourself and see if it suits your bowling style?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I like the description of your grip......... 'holding the ball like you would eating an apple'. This is exactly the grip I'm currently testing and getting all the good results from, it just goes to show that you need to play around with so many different variables until you yourself come up with something that suits you or that you're happy with. Paulinho this 'Apple Grip' you use is it fairly loose?

In fact I liked it so much I've used it in a new blog I'm putting together to replace the old blog. http://spinbowling-legbreak.blogspot.com/
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ripping-LegBreak;357407 said:
Danish Kaneria lets it rip | Photo | Sri Lanka v Pakistan 2009 | Cricinfo.com

Hey Guys, was just wondering on cricinfo and found this pic. It shows a perfect wrist position for setting up to bowl the legbreak. Now after looking at his front arm a question arises. Just like fast bowlers they delay their bowling arm for a while then propel it as soon as the front arm comes down and is tucked into the rib , is this what Kaneria is doing here?
Click to expand...

looks pretty much exactly how my action looks for a big leg break with a 90 deg seam position (or slightly behind 90 degs). hopefully my facial expression isnt quite so unflattering though lol. my non-bowling arm sort of starts out in front of my face, then i drop it down, my bowling arm starts bent holding the ball right next to my cheek, this also drops, goes round in a big circle and follows the non-bowling arm in one smooth motion. throw in the twist with the trailing foot "stepping" over and then the arms follow through like a fast bowler, but more rounded and less over.

i found a really interesting "problem" in my action whilst practicing the other day, its the biggest cause of my inconsistencies. i have a tendancy to start a session bowling "round", and become more and more "over" in my action. what i mean is that my bowling arm gets more and more upright, and my non-bowling arm starts to follow through by coming down to my hip, and not around (like how Shane Warne follows through on demonstration videos). i noticed this problem quite quickly, and im correcting it now. so long as my action keeps coming "around" and i keep my body more upright, i impart lots more spin on the ball, am more consistent with line and length, and generate drift and dip from flightly balls. when the action goes "over" and my body bends away from the ball (like a fast bowler trying too hard), the ball is delivered flatter, less spin (even though i generate the same proportion of revs with the fingers/wrist), gets delivered faster as well, and is less consistent. this does however give me a variation where the ball is faster, looks exactly like a standard leg break but will more often than not skid straight on. the subtle variations are the best. the "over" action also has a tendancy to deliver googlies when im trying to do leg breaks. this is definitely the technique for me to bowl the wrong'un, but for now im avoiding it completely, i practice maybe one every 100 balls just to get my arm muscles gradually conditioned to the uncomfortable wrist action. i need a strong, match-proven, wicket-taking leg break before i work on variations.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;359860 said:
I reckon I bowl between really slow 35mph and 45mph which I've been measured at. I might be faster but I reckon generally 40mph - ish? Varying the speed's important rather than bowling fast all the time. Watching Swann though - it's obvious that he doesn't get a lot of turn, but I'd imagine with the limitations on fingers spinners options they can't weave the web of trickery that we do and therefore use slower balls in the same way?
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Using this new way of bowling (well to me anyway) I've come to realise that the pace of the ball is massively important for how much spin in put on the ball, much more so than the other ways I’ve tried. As the unfurl of the wrist and the downward motion of the hand (3rd finger especially) control the revs on the ball, seam position and pace. I’d say this way of doing it puts even more emphasis on sound basic technique in the delivery and follow through.

The faster I bowl the more revs I get but the forward momentum negates the spin and too slow not enough revs on the ball. This is all common sense I know but finding out your personal optimum pace for each variation, surface, arm position, position on the crease sounds like lots of work and lots of fun.

Maybe it’s time to become a medium pacer.

Nah just kidding!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

something interesting i didnt mention before...

when i was at training the other week for the club i train with, i got there a little early and there were still a load of the junior players there with their coach. i stood and watched for 5 mins before one of them invited me to have a bowl in their net. however i was watching the coach and listening to him, and he was teaching a kid who wanted to bowl leg spin, but seemingly had little previous experience.

what was interesting, is that he was teaching him to bowl with a top spin action!!! at first this seemed a little strange, but by all accounts he is very well respected as a coach and the junior team apparently produces lots of very good players. so i watched this kid progressing for probably an hour or so, and he was really struggling to spin the ball, he was obviously a complete novice and that was his first ever session attempting to bowl leg spin. however he did make quite a large amount of progress during the session!

i thought nothing more of it, and figured it must just be easier to teach leg spin with the top spin grip. then when i was practicing the other day i was initially struggling with accuracy trying to bowl big leg breaks. one ball i sort of accidentally bowled with lots of overspin, and the accuracy, drift, dip, turn, everything just came together. because your fingers are spinning the ball down the wicket, i think that you remove many of the variables that produce error.

relating it back to the coach at the club, i can see why he would favour this method for kids first learning leg spin bowling. once they can bowl in a straight line with revolutions on the ball its a very easy step to get the wrist cocked 45 degrees and suddenly bowl some sizeable leg breaks, with all of the basic technique already in place.

that was just a thought that popped into my head reading your new blog. it may not be a bad way for people to approach leg spin bowling from a beginners standpoint.

one other thing in your blog though - i started out not using my thumb, i did all my spinning with the fingers. i still can quite comfortably. but i use my thumb whenever i can for 2 reasons. 1, i find it improves my accuracy and consistency. 2, ive found a way to incorporate the thumb as a lever, and i can generate more spin with it!! much like Grimmets extra fingers on the ball for his flipper i guess, every additional lever you can effectively introduce should be used. my action now primarily uses my thumb and my ring finger to spin the ball, whereas without the thumb on the ball i have to use my first and ring fingers, and this is a far less controlled grip. try picking the ball up with your 1st and ring fingers and holding it steady. now do the same with thumb and ring finger and that should illustrate why i have found it to work better for me. not that its the correct way, its just what i prefer :) also, i have a very relaxed grip as you have been discussing earlier.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;359943 said:
I like the description of your grip......... 'holding the ball like you would eating an apple'. This is exactly the grip I'm currently testing and getting all the good results from, it just goes to show that you need to play around with so many different variables until you yourself come up with something that suits you or that you're happy with. Paulinho this 'Apple Grip' you use is it fairly loose?

In fact I liked it so much I've used it in a new blog I'm putting together to replace the old blog. Spin bowling-Legbreak
Click to expand...

I've been told I have a very loose grip but like you say it suits me and I get spin with it which is the most important thing.

Reading your Wrist Spin Bowling: The Biggun #2 blog today it got me thinking about how much effort I've been putting into the actual wrist flick whilst using my new action and I have to say it isn't consciously that much, however I have noticed that my wrist, elbow and shoulder all actually hurt today. In fact the right side of my body feels like it's had a proper work out which leads me to believe that I had previously not been using the "levers" that philpott describes.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

is it just me who thinks those 2 videos are pretty awful examples of how to bowl spin? all of them are running in far too fast, bowling with a very upright arm position, generating next to no spin at all, with no flight on the ball. the follow through is that of a medium pacer or fast bowler, the arms should be coming a lot more "around" (as i described above with my action, when i get my arm too vertical bad things happen). not that my action is in any way a great example, but these guys arent generating any spin or flight, so their actions obviously arent working for them like that either. the guy bowling the doosra just made the ball go straight on, how is that a doosra?! its just an accidental arm ball with that much pace on it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Paulinho;359948 said:
Using this new way of bowling (well to me anyway) I've come to realise that the pace of the ball is massively important for how much spin in put on the ball, much more so than the other ways I’ve tried. As the unfurl of the wrist and the downward motion of the hand (3rd finger especially) control the revs on the ball, seam position and pace. I’d say this way of doing it puts even more emphasis on sound basic technique in the delivery and follow through.

The faster I bowl the more revs I get but the forward momentum negates the spin and too slow not enough revs on the ball. This is all common sense I know but finding out your personal optimum pace for each variation, surface, arm position, position on the crease sounds like lots of work and lots of fun.

Maybe it’s time to become a medium pacer.

Nah just kidding!
Click to expand...

I bowled some straight seam up balls last thing yesterday evening just to check to see if they'd deviate off thier line solely because of the lumps and bumps. They didn't thus suggesting the stuff I'm bowling turns because of the spin! But bowling the seam up balls they were accurate and fast-ish. I can see how easy it is for younger blokes to get really disillusioned with spin and turn to the 'Dark side' in their desperation for results.

Keep the faith. Once a wrist spinner always a wrist spinner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;357541 said:
is it just me who thinks those 2 videos are pretty awful examples of how to bowl spin? all of them are running in far too fast, bowling with a very upright arm position, generating next to no spin at all, with no flight on the ball. the follow through is that of a medium pacer or fast bowler, the arms should be coming a lot more "around" (as i described above with my action, when i get my arm too vertical bad things happen). not that my action is in any way a great example, but these guys arent generating any spin or flight, so their actions obviously arent working for them like that either. the guy bowling the doosra just made the ball go straight on, how is that a doosra?! its just an accidental arm ball with that much pace on it.
Click to expand...

I agree fully with you with respect to the amount of flight. I presume that would be the sort of pace that O'Reilly would have bowled.

As regards the arm, I am with you. The problem is till I videoed myself, I thought I was very vertical, but was shocked at how round arm i was. Warne on the other hand in the video with Nicholas says he had to remind himself to raise his arm to a more vertical position. I, have to really make a hard concious effort to get my hand really vertical. I think I might have some limitation in full abduction of the shoulder.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;359954 said:
something interesting i didnt mention before...

when i was at training the other week for the club i train with, i got there a little early and there were still a load of the junior players there with their coach. i stood and watched for 5 mins before one of them invited me to have a bowl in their net. however i was watching the coach and listening to him, and he was teaching a kid who wanted to bowl leg spin, but seemingly had little previous experience.

what was interesting, is that he was teaching him to bowl with a top spin action!!! at first this seemed a little strange, but by all accounts he is very well respected as a coach and the junior team apparently produces lots of very good players. so i watched this kid progressing for probably an hour or so, and he was really struggling to spin the ball, he was obviously a complete novice and that was his first ever session attempting to bowl leg spin. however he did make quite a large amount of progress during the session!

i thought nothing more of it, and figured it must just be easier to teach leg spin with the top spin grip. then when i was practicing the other day i was initially struggling with accuracy trying to bowl big leg breaks. one ball i sort of accidentally bowled with lots of overspin, and the accuracy, drift, dip, turn, everything just came together. because your fingers are spinning the ball down the wicket, i think that you remove many of the variables that produce error.

relating it back to the coach at the club, i can see why he would favour this method for kids first learning leg spin bowling. once they can bowl in a straight line with revolutions on the ball its a very easy step to get the wrist cocked 45 degrees and suddenly bowl some sizeable leg breaks, with all of the basic technique already in place.

that was just a thought that popped into my head reading your new blog. it may not be a bad way for people to approach leg spin bowling from a beginners standpoint.

one other thing in your blog though - i started out not using my thumb, i did all my spinning with the fingers. i still can quite comfortably. but i use my thumb whenever i can for 2 reasons. 1, i find it improves my accuracy and consistency. 2, ive found a way to incorporate the thumb as a lever, and i can generate more spin with it!! much like Grimmets extra fingers on the ball for his flipper i guess, every additional lever you can effectively introduce should be used. my action now primarily uses my thumb and my ring finger to spin the ball, whereas without the thumb on the ball i have to use my first and ring fingers, and this is a far less controlled grip. try picking the ball up with your 1st and ring fingers and holding it steady. now do the same with thumb and ring finger and that should illustrate why i have found it to work better for me. not that its the correct way, its just what i prefer :) also, i have a very relaxed grip as you have been discussing earlier.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting point with regards the coach and the kid and I can see the point. I know that when I was just a 'Googly Bowler' I spent a lot of time learning to bowl the Top Spinner and it was a key point in me learning how to bowl a good line and length and get my follow through, step over and pivot together. What do you reckon then to the idea that if you're struggling to get the Leg Break because of it's complexities that you perhaps stop and revert to learning the Top Spinner as a first stage and then go back to the Leg Break later? Another thought on this is that stage 1 of Philpotts instructions, the first exercise that he describes - bowling the ball across the body from hand to hand in my books looks more akin to bowling the Top-Spinner, yet he then says 'Now you've bowled a Leg Break'. Macca's comments on this would be helpful I reckon as he's training his son to bowl leg-breaks?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

My 11 year old son has all the legspinners arsenal, more or less, but we have not been analysing much lately. His big advantage is how accurate he is.

Mainly legbreaks and topspinners pitched up on the stumps. Our aim is 5 overs on the trot, with no bad balls. nothing wide or short. topspinners must not go down legside. There is no use pitching down legside if you dont intend spinning it back.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;357552 said:
I agree fully with you with respect to the amount of flight. I presume that would be the sort of pace that O'Reilly would have bowled.

As regards the arm, I am with you. The problem is till I videoed myself, I thought I was very vertical, but was shocked at how round arm i was. Warne on the other hand in the video with Nicholas says he had to remind himself to raise his arm to a more vertical position. I, have to really make a hard concious effort to get my hand really vertical. I think I might have some limitation in full abduction of the shoulder.
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i find that too vertical just doesnt help with the spin though. Warne says that he liked to bowl somewhere between round arm and vertical, that is pretty much the same as i bowl. if i get too vertical then the ball just doesnt turn as much and has more pace to it, it tends to skid on more. in those 2 videos they are very vertically armed, and combined with the other aspects i just dont think that works as well.

as for foul and insulting language, im not sure you need to take it that far, but without doubt if you can get under the batsmans skin with a bit of banter his mind is going to be distracted from shot playing, and in an extreme case i think you can even talk a batsman out. Andrew Flintoff in the slips with Tino Best batting for W.Indies springs to mind - "mind the windows Tino". next ball he played a huge slog, missed the ball and got stumped iirc, and Freddie stood there creasing up with laughter. Warne used this to great effect against Ian Bell in the 2005 Ashes series as well, they called him "The Sherminator", most likely for his striking resemblance to the character in the film American Pie. and he couldnt read the variations that would go straight on, and he got out a couple of times. so Warne just kept sledging him to distract him, and talking about what the ball was doing and going straight on. and it got him out a few more times i seem to recall. just by putting doubt in his mind.

how is sledging looked at in club cricket? hopefully il play some games some time before the season ends, id like to portray an image of extreme confidence to batsmen as i think it gets them scared without you even bowling that well. but im not sure if banter is frowned upon at club level, what with it being a gentlemans game and generally played in good spirits? will i get away with talking to someone about their mother and what she was doing last night? lol

one other thing that had me wondering, unrelated to any of the above - you have to declare what kind of bowler you are when you come on, right? e.g. right arm spinner (do you have to be as specific as leg spinner?), bowling over/round the wicket. i seem to remember this being the case when i played a little at school. i have an "arm ball" that goes straight on, substantially faster than anything else i bowl, probably up around 70mph. is this allowed? i saw Graeme Swann bowl a delivery at 77mph the other day in among his 50-60mph off breaks, and his faster ball took a wicket or 2. so im guessing its ok?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What do you reckon though to the idea that if you're not getting anywhere with your Leg Break that you turn to the Top-Spinner first, or as with the example the bloke cited with little kids you teach them the Top Spinner before the Leg Break?

I've always been under the impression that many kids when shown the 2 up 2 down grip bowl Leg Breaks naturally right from the outset and it's only when they start thinking about it more that it potentially all start going wrong.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

this evening was interesting. i went along to a local club for a training session, i got talking to the guy who runs a local cricket shop the other week and asked if he knew of any teams looking for a rookie leg spinner, and he said i should pop along to the team that he plays for. so i went along this evening, we arrived a little late and there was a match on, so we drove to the nets and parked up. were getting out of the car and one of the players runs over shouting "forget about that, weve got a match on and theres only 8 players!!". so it looks like were playing. i totally wasnt expecting that, but wasnt going to turn down the chance. the team was a midweek team which comprises a variety of 1st and 2nd XI league players and anyone else to make up the numbers. i think there were about 5 first teamers and the rest were 2nd XI aside from me and one other guy making up the numbers. the opposition i beleive were of similar stature, so it was by no means an easy game.

so i managed to scrounge some whites, we were batting and luckily i wasnt required. it was a 20-20 game but shortened to 17 or 18 overs because of some rain early on. so then we took to the field, i explained to a few guys that i was a wannabe leg spinner but had only been playing for 3 weeks and this was my first game. but they were all top guys and had nothing but encouragement, the guy who was captain for the game said hed give me a go at some point.

so i did my fielding, and then with 5 overs left i got called to bowl. the pitch was 3 matches old and had some nice footmarks and was quite roughed up. looked really nice for leg spin. i bowled my first ball, it was a wide, but the umpire said hed let me have that as a loosener. bowled my 2nd ball, same again, umpire surprisingly let it go lol. 3rd ball i got it right, loads of flight, pitched it up about a foot outside off stump. this was to their opening batsman who was still in, and he charged at it with a huge slog sweep. the ball span away past his bat, wicket keeper took it and stumped him :D wicket with my 3rd ever ball, i figured that couldnt be bad. first over went for 4 runs including a couple of wides, but took an important wicket. the new batsman didnt look great when he came in and he inside edged a wrong-un that came out more by accident than anything else and it missed the stumps. then he played down on one and the ball bounced over the stumps and only just missed. i could have had a hat trick in fairness on another day.

the captain let me have another over after that which wasnt quite so successful. i think i let the nerves get the better of me and i didnt focus on what i was doing, i was just bowling on instinct and not really giving enough consideration to what was going wrong. it wasnt bad, i bowled another wide. but this batsman was MUCH better and was hitting everyone. he hit for 2 consecutive fours, and i didnt really manage a good ball. i tried a flipper just for fun, it came out nicely and totaly deceived him, but it was leg side. had it been on target it might have caused problems as it stayed very low and zipped past him.

so not too bad. i wasnt even supposed to be playing, and im not really in a position where im ready for matches. but 2-0-14-1 on my debut isnt horrendous. they won the match with an average of 7.44 and my average was 7.00, so i was fairly happy. the fact ive only been bowling for 3 weeks impressed everyone a bit lol.

so il go back next week and do some net work hopefully, theyve got some coaches down there so i can get some advice as well. ive taken my first wicket though against a good batsman, so hopefully there are plenty more to come :D
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I notice my son bowled the topspinner as his stock ball when he first started about 4 years ago. that seemed the natural way wrist spin came out of his hand.

But it did not not take all that long to turn it around and make the legbreak his stock ball. The topspinner is still crucial to his sucess though.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I might try this with my son Joe who seems to have lost the ability to bowl the Leg Break, although having said that this new approach I've been using with the much looser grip might work for him as well, so I'll suggest that first and see how he gets on with it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

yeah kaneria and ajmal were bowling in tandem beautifully and compltely had the sri lankans on the ropes, they should have been playing both spinners in all the test they are both in the top few spinners in the world
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;359960 said:
I bowled some straight seam up balls last thing yesterday evening just to check to see if they'd deviate off thier line solely because of the lumps and bumps. They didn't thus suggesting the stuff I'm bowling turns because of the spin! But bowling the seam up balls they were accurate and fast-ish. I can see how easy it is for younger blokes to get really disillusioned with spin and turn to the 'Dark side' in their desperation for results.

Keep the faith. Once a wrist spinner always a wrist spinner.
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong I can’t give up now, I'm like a kid with a new toy, having found a way that I can bowl a big leg break that can turn square (if I get it right) and a normal leg break that can beat the bat with seemingly little effort (although my aching body begs to differ). The funny thing is I'm coming to the conclusion, although I may be wrong, that this is the orthodox way of doing it. It's still difficult mind you and it's going to take some time for me to attain the accuracy of line and length that I had with the other methods I was using.

Having read Philpott’s explanations again and having a bit more understanding of how it feels to bowl with this new action I think it might be what he's talking about.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Afternoon all, new to the site and new to wrist spinning also!

I'm breaking myself back into cricket after a 10 year absence (kids!) by playing in a 20/20 friendly league. I have always dabbled with leg spin but as an opening bat I have never been called upon to bowl until now. The team has an ethos that everyone must bowl a couple of overs. Feeling brave and not resorting to bowling medium pace I bowled three overs last week (all leg breaks) and got 3-1-3-0... absolutely delighted!

Fast forward to last nights game and I went for 3-0-18-1. Still not bad I guess however the runs gained were (all but 4) wides. The umpire called everything that pitched on the off stump (again leg breaks) a wide. It completely threw me as I could not see anything wrong. Admittedly I was getting a bit more turn than the previous week but I still felt that the ball was in reach. I threw a few at leg stump and he let them pass but as soon as I pitched on off, out went the arms!

Is this common or was I just unlucky. It got to me in the end and I ended up bowling straight for a couple of balls.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i received and read from cover to cover a copy of "The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling" by Peter Philpott this evening. an excellent book, as many on here have prevously mentioned. i wouldnt say i found anything in it revolutionary to my way of thinking (which i guess is a good thing!), but there were some interesting points and subjects to ponder. it has highlighted that my approach, delivery and follow through are incredibly weak. i most certainly dont "explode" at the crease, certainly not to the point of grunting, and i take a 1 step run up and my follow through carries no forward momentum. this is my next major area to work on i think. otherwise il have to relearn my other areas of technique later when i introduce some proper energy to my action. when i played (albeit unexpectedly and unpreparedly) last week, the one criticism everyone had of me was that i bowled with one arm. e.g. no follow through. normally this isnt the case in the nets, but i think nerves played their part, and i didnt follow through at all and wasnt consciously thinking about what i was doing to realise. i think that my follow through is weak at best, and this just exaggerated it. so it needs work in my next practice session for sure.

one interesting thing Philpott mentions later in the book relating to wet pitches intrigued me though. it is something i too have observed in my own deliveries, albeit on a concrete net wicket, the dampest and skiddiest surface possible....

"Dampish, skidding wickets can create a problem. The ball becomes hard to grip and with your normal wrist-spinners the turn goes. In my later years, however, as long as I could still hold the ball, I found the back-spinner very useful in such conditions. It skidded on, but went the opposite way to normal off the pitch. I don't know why, but it did. A bit of leg-spin amongst the back-spin and it ripped back from the off, then an orthodox off-spinner which went from the leg. Try it. If it works, keep a straight face and let them believe you have bowled the unpickable wrong'un."

ive found that ALL of my deliveries go the wrong way. i thought it was just poor technique on my part and accidental googlies coming out instead of big leg breaks. it appears not. i was sure that the ball looked correct out of the hand, and was baffled on several occasions by it turning the wrong way. at least im not the only one.

also, i was looking up information on all the various bowlers he mentions in the book to see what they were all about. on looking up info on Iverson and Gleeson and their unique finger action, i found a web page with a long article on Iverson and his technique, with a quote from one of Philpotts other books halfway through it...

"...Eventually I see the Iverson method being best employed by an orthodox off-spinner. Instead of a basic Iverson attack with occasional orthodox off-spin, there is a great future for an accurate off-spinner who produces a difficult to detect leg spinner every now and then. I could visualise such a bowler causing great concern amongst batsmen, and young off-spinners might be well rewarded for experimentation in this field..."

i also observed from looking at the fingers that i had seen an off spinner using this exact method at the T20 world cup this year, and to magnificent effect. a certain Ajantha Mendis of Sri Lanka. hes already being hailed as the next Murali in some circles, so i guess Philpott is correct. either that or Mendis read his books and picked up on what he said about the future use of this technique for an off spinner...
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

ahh dave thats gutting u seem to be having nearly as bad lucky with injuries as me, just make sure you don't try and bowl before it has fully healed as you can damage the tendons/ ligaments as i did and it takes more like 6 weeks to heal. I won't be bowling in the next week or 2 either still as there is still a large hole in my finger stopping me bending it and it is still not showing many signs of healing.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

As you're a man of many injuries and have a wealth of experience in this field I'll heed your advice. With regards your cut finger try this. Buy yourself an English lettuce and eat the whole thing, take a full day or maybe two to do it and then watch how your cut heals up super fast. I've got a busted ear drum and when I surf I have to do this manouvre called a duck dive which means I got under the water about 4 or 5 feet as a 6 or 8 foot wave passes over the top of me. That kind of depth causes pressure that forces it's way past my ear drum re-tearing it and allowing water that then goes sceptic in my middle ear. A doctor told me back in 1980 that I should never swim again let alone surf otherwise I'll end up deaf. I was just about to go surfing for 6 months every day but he'd been giving me ever increasing in strength anti-biotics and also made the point that if I kept damaging the ear, the antibiotics would need to be stronger in order to heal the ear and clear up the infection. But he asked me about my diet and said something about eating a balanced diet in order to facilitate more affective healing. I then went away and got a book from the library written by a SAS soldier and it were details about the kind of minimum diet you should have in order to function at full capacity in combat situations. In his recommendations was 'Leafy Green vegatables' because they produce the vitamins and what have you that are necessary to encourage good white blood cells and it's these that heal and look after your skin. So when my ear drum gets busted these days instead of having a course of amoxil (Antibiotics) and it taking 2 to 3 weeks to heal up I eat a whole bloody great lettuce and my ear is fixed within about 3 to 4 days. It might be complete B******s but if it is it's a bloody good placebo affect. You should try it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;358137 said:
This is getting weirder. A young shane warne explaining his flipper. Looks nothing like the one he bowled later on. Also explains the zooter ala philpott. Have a look, his flipper looks similar to what Kaneria shows in an earlier clip. YouTube - Shane Warne On: The Flipper
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call me cynical, but if i were a spin bowler that every batsman in the world feared, and everyone had trouble reading my deliveries, and i was asked to do an interview that was going to be well known in the cricket world and potentially seen by all of the coaches and players from opposition teams, i think i might be tempted to talk complete rubbish about my different deliveries and confuse everyone.

not that Shane Warne is in this case, but the flipper is conventionally the finger spun backspinner, as opposed to the wrist spun version from under the hand. what he describes in that interview looks more like what he calls his slider in the video of him demonstrating his deliveries in australia.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

thanks for the advice dave, i'd guess my non healthy student diet probablly doesn't help when it comes to being good for the body. MY finger still looks like its been stiched back together and thats nearly 2 weeks since it happened
DSC00150.JPG (image)
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've got a question that has been thinking about for sometime and was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on it.

Basically I understand totally how the position of the wrist on release determines the direction of the spin on the ball. But what I was wondering is if most people position their wrist before they start running in, or in the gather or if in fact most people have the wrist in the same position for each variation and rely on the flick in the delivery to deliver the angle of spin they want.

I hope that makes sense.
 
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Yeah you need some good food down your neck to help that along, that was the poxy bloke dropping the bricks on your hand wasn't it - gutted! Hope it gets better quick.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

with the flipper aside, as the grip is totally different, i position the ball in my hand before i run up. the position of my wrist takes gradually during the run up i guess, and by the time im bowling the wrist is fixed in position and the flick is more a part of the follow through. i find that if i try to flick the wrist prior to ball release it lacks control. the final wrist position isnt reached until just before ball release though, aside from the wrong'un which i have to cock the wrist earlier because its such an exaggerated variation from the leg break and top spin variations. my slider and zooter grip (both of which are in very early stages of development and hardly ever work) are also in position earlier.

the flipper is obviously totally different as the finger position is nothing like the leg break. the final wrist position for that i acheive late, just before i release the ball, as it has a much bigger flick to flight the ball else it just comes out flat.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

But there are positives as I wrote on the Blog today -

So last night still under the influence of the local anaesthetic I made the quick entry regarding my finger half expecting to then be in pain all night and the best part of the day. It’s turned out to be as I expected a dull tender feeling rather than pain, but it’s obvious that given the choice as I have you wouldn’t want to bowl in the next few days and I certainly don’t fancy the prospects of catching a ball or diving around on the floor using my hands to break my fall, so I wont be doing much of that over the next couple of weekends. The upside of the whole thing is twofold.

1. It gives my elbow (Medial Epicondylitis) a chance to recover completely and
2. I’ve found in the past that if I come away from trying something too much I get in a rut and don’t progress. If I’m then taken away from it (Practicing) I come back to it with a fresh approach and often make massive leaps and bounds.

So it’ll be good to do that and just see if it works out in practice rather than as an anecdotal observation.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Heh, yeah, I have been very lazy in keeping up with this thread lately.

I've had a rather messy time since my last update; I lost my pivot and the corresponding revs and turn.

I also noticed something rather important when I saw a photo of Warne in the middle of his bowling action; I am keeping my front arm too high for too long. Probably a result of me developing a very slingy seam-up action.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

just to respond to a few of the many posts from yesterday...

1. with regards learning the top spinner first - i went to the club nets practice last night, and nobody else bothered to turn up. i guess being near the end of the season people arent practicing as much, and they are already in their respective teams, so there is no need for the networking aspect of training either. so i just bowled by myself instead for a couple of hours. i was struggling to bowl anything decent again, occasionally one would come out well, but my consistency is awful and it takes me an hour of solid bowling just to even edge close to an acceptable standard of bowling. i was using plenty of overspin again as that worked for me last practice, it wasnt last night!!

anyway, eventually i figured out my issue. its my run up. i started bowling off of two steps, with the aim of working up to the run up later as i found my consistency. i got the 2 step technique nailed, my length was awesome, 95% perfect id say. i went about 20 minutes of constant bowling without a single wayward ball on length, it was awesome!! everything was well flighted, and mostly turning. ive decided that the soft padded wicket surface doesnt help spin, the astroturf is too slippy. i actually prefer bowling on concrete. however its yet another turn challenge, if i can get the ball to turn big on rubbish surfaces, then turning on grass is going to be a doddle. the surface is meant more to give realistic bounce to pace bowlers i think, like its not enough that batsman are favoured over bowlers in cricket, pace bowlers are favoured over spinners. were fighting a losing battle here guys lol.

im now a no run up bowler though. there is just no need for it. im not bowling slowly by any means, and until such a time that i can find a comfortable run up technique im just going to do away with it. i find that bowling without the run up means i put much more effort into my follow through to compensate for the pace, and this in turn yields more spin. the run up just screws everything up, although earlier in the week i had it working perfectly. il come back to it during the winter i think when there is no cricket to be played, right now i want to get a few games before the season ends just as a taster for next year.

my line is still only about 20% accurate, its 95% consistent, but it ALWAYS goes leg side, anywhere from in line with leg to 6-12" outside. sometimes theres enough turn there to get it back, i was hitting the stumps a LOT, maybe every 6th ball. sometimes the ball is spinning like mad and just skids on, thats the surface at fault. sometimes it drifts and thats even more annoying because it ends up miles outside leg lol. any decent batsman would dispatch balls on that side unless they turn huge, so i need to sort my line out. its not as simple as re-aiming though, its an inherent flaw in my stance. i try to aim down the offside, and it still goes leg side. i square my body up, and it just goes wrong.

again though, with this method i started out with 45-60 degs of overspin with 45-30 degs of side spin respectively. that found me my consistent length and flight. from that i was then able to vary things after 15-20 mins with the same consistency. so from now on my practice sessions will begin with 20 mins of no run up top spinners. once they are working i am free to mix things up. my slider is getting better, i still cant figure out how on earth i am supposed to bowl a wrong'un, it WILL NOT come out spinning the other way, its actually incredibly frustrating, as i can bowl it in slow motion, my arm just wont adopt the position at full speed, it always wants to revert to a leg break. i guess thats better than vice versa lol. now that im not running up ive got my flipper back too. im back to where i started 4-5 weeks ago now, but with a ton more knowledge and understanding, and far improved accuracy.

2. lettuce probably doesnt qualify as a leafy green, its almost entirely water and has few nutrients. if you want a fix of vitamins and goodness then eat a bag of curly leafed Kale, or a bag of Spinach leaves. that will get you your vitamin fix. eat it raw, dont cook it or anything, youll lose all the good stuff.

3. sucks that you dislocated a finger Dave, but at least its the only one that doesnt play a part in leg spin lol. you could probably carry on with it dislocated if you wanted to, but its probably not worth the risk. if the rest gives other injuries a chance to heal and also gives you some more spare time though then it cant be worth even considering playing through it. might be worth icing it several times per day for 20 mins, should aid the recovery time.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;359277 said:
Heh, yeah, I have been very lazy in keeping up with this thread lately.

I've had a rather messy time since my last update; I lost my pivot and the corresponding revs and turn.

I also noticed something rather important when I saw a photo of Warne in the middle of his bowling action; I am keeping my front arm too high for too long. Probably a result of me developing a very slingy seam-up action.
Click to expand...

EOW what you doing bowling seam up?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ah yes Spinach - you're right, I forgot about spinnach!

I think maybe with your bowling you're trying to do too much at the same time and possibly focusing on trying to to really difficult stuff at a too early stage in your career. I'd honestly leave the idea of turning the ball into the stumps from the Legside well alone for a year or two to be honest. I'd never contemplate using that as a delivery to hit the stumps unless I'd sussed that the batsman was completely inept at batting off his legs and down the legside. My experience is that even at club level most batsmen from the top order down to the bottom end of the middle order are more than enough equipped do deal with bowling in those areas and you'll be going for 4's on a very regular basis. I think a far more productive approach would be the off-stump attack method. You need to focus on your line more, by the sounds of it and maybe in the short term at the expense of some of your spin/deviation? All your fielders are going to be over on that side generally and if the line and length are good make sure that you show the bat that you can turn the ball away from the edge and you'll probably then see some respect given, it's just a case then of varying your speed, flight and turn and popping in the odd variation (Slider/Top-Spinner) to keep the B*****d on his toes and let him know who the boss is. I maintain that if you can do this and do it well you'll get your wickets by the bag full and this is without turning it big. Once you've got that nailed do as I'm doing - work on getting your Biggun using the same line - so your always on the stumps and if it does turn big it's good because that then show you've got potential to turn in from the legside, so then if one does stray down the legside, the bat would be in two minds as to whether it's intentional and therefore going to turn in big and may be more inclined to defend the ball rather than hit it for 4 or 6 out to deep square leg? I think with your 1 in 6 success rate that you've currently got a Legside approach will be fatal and see you taken off bowling duties within a couple of overs?

Boris - If you're reading this what do you reckon?

With regards your run in, I'd try and adapt it to the Warnesque approach, 4 or 5 regular walking steps into the 'Explosion' through the crease phase, I'm assuming that when you say Run in you mean a vigorous faster trot in rather than a few steps and the explosive bit?

I'll try the icing thing as well cheers.
 
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