Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'm a decent leg spinner except I can barely turn the ball (intentionally done because I prefer accuracy over spin).

I've got all the variations except the top spinner. When I try to bowl the top spinner I almost always get the ball to turn a little to the offside.

Can someone direct me to a video displaying on how to bowl it properly?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;337480 said:
EOW, I cannot really believe you do not play the game seriously as you seem to grasp things very easily. It seems you have a very clear mind what leg spin is all about, and we appreciate your precious input.
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Well I am serious. I just don't play in a team(yet). I've been interested in wrist spin for a couple of years now. I spent the entire first year trying to working out the correct wrist position to bowl even the smallest leg break, by the end of the year I had the over-spun leg break.Then the next thing I tried to learn was the side-spun leg break(the big leg break), I spent months only getting the an occasional one to come out a side-spinner.

It wasn't till Dave posted the "spin it back towards yourself" advice that I could consistently bowl the side-spinner.

The leg-break is about my only delivery. I've spent all my time on learning how to bowl it properly, even to the neglect of other parts of my action, such as my often mentioned follow through or the lack of energy through the crease. That is why I could tell what was going on so easily. I've had lots experience with the leg-break wrist position. If you had posted a picture of a wrong'un I probably wouldn't have been able to tell that much.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

On teaching kids how to bowl a flipper, it is strongly recommended not to ,according to coaches I have spoken to, up to a certain age. It has got to do with various injuries that are possible.

The delivery my son is working on is not the Dooland type flipper but another Grimmett backspinner using the thumbnail to impart the spin. My young bloke started practising it upside down against the wall. Then working out what it should look like at release, that helped determine a slight change in his grip.

There is no hurry, if it works he wont bowl it in a game for years anyway - I wont let him! We wont be neglecting our stock ball. We have a full size pitch in the backyard and we practise nearly every day.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

gundalf7;337514 said:
On the subject of clubs encouraging seam over spin, I know of reports from friends who have attended games of one club in the north staffs area who actively discourage the bowling of spin and encourage the "proper" bowling style of seam.
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Yeah this doesn't surprise me at all, that's the kind of mind set that'll ensure that Spin dies out slowly but surely.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;337542 said:
Well I am serious. I just don't play in a team(yet). I've been interested in wrist spin for a couple of years now. I spent the entire first year trying to working out the correct wrist position to bowl even the smallest leg break, by the end of the year I had the over-spun leg break.Then the next thing I tried to learn was the side-spun leg break(the big leg break), I spent months only getting the an occasional one to come out a side-spinner.

It wasn't till Dave posted the "spin it back towards yourself" advice that I could consistently bowl the side-spinner.

The leg-break is about my only delivery. I've spent all my time on learning how to bowl it properly, even to the neglect of other parts of my action, such as my often mentioned follow through or the lack of energy through the crease. That is why I could tell what was going on so easily. I've had lots experience with the leg-break wrist position. If you had posted a picture of a wrong'un I probably wouldn't have been able to tell that much.
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EOW, I'd stick with your leg break and work on all the other bits - follow through and energy as you come through the crease. If you can get all that together and you've already got a decent biggun and standard leg break it's only going to get better! Have you looked at the Beau Casson clip at the david freedman website on you tube? You've got to check it out - I was totally lost with my Leg Break until I saw that video and I reckon it was integral to me coming good with the leg break and an increase in speed with all of my bowling.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;337775 said:
On teaching kids how to bowl a flipper, it is strongly recommended not to ,according to coaches I have spoken to, up to a certain age. It has got to do with various injuries that are possible.

The delivery my son is working on is not the Dooland type flipper but another Grimmett backspinner using the thumbnail to impart the spin. My young bloke started practising it upside down against the wall. Then working out what it should look like at release, that helped determine a slight change in his grip.

There is no hurry, if it works he wont bowl it in a game for years anyway - I wont let him! We wont be neglecting our stock ball. We have a full size pitch in the backyard and we practise nearly every day.
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Macca give us a post code or a street name so we can all ogle your wicket on Google earth and salivate with jealousy! That sounds great!

Tell us more about the Dooland flipper as well as this is something I've not come across before.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Bruce Dooland showed Benaud the flipper. He was a South Austalian who played for Notts and once took 16 wickets for 83 runs in a match against Essex!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Our backyard pitch isn't all that grand. Half turf, half concrete, no room for a keeper and partially covered by a carport, which fortunately doesn't interfere with flight. But it has 22 yards, permanent stumps and a bucket full of old six stitchers at the bowlers end.
Calling the delivery I was trying to describe the Dooland flipper was probably wrong but it is the highly developed flipper that Grimmett taught Dooland and Pepper. It is the one that "squeezes' out of the fingers and thumb and would take a long time to get right. The one we are working on is the prototype that Grimmett first started experimenting with where you "flip" the ball as if it were a coin only upside down.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;337871 said:
EOW, I'd stick with your leg break and work on all the other bits - follow through and energy as you come through the crease. If you can get all that together and you've already got a decent biggun and standard leg break it's only going to get better! Have you looked at the Beau Casson clip at the david freedman website on you tube? You've got to check it out - I was totally lost with my Leg Break until I saw that video and I reckon it was integral to me coming good with the leg break and an increase in speed with all of my bowling.
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That is exactly what I'm doing Dave. It is going quite well. I seem to be able to bowl further and faster every practice session. I haven't got up to 22 yards yet and the further I bowl from the more inconsistent it is, but I have improved significantly. The key was eliminating are rather nasty pause in my action just before I released.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca as it happens I've got a pretty good set up here where we live. Our gardens 30' x 25' so barely big enough to swing a cat in, but within spitting distance almost of the house we've got a football field that's hardly ever used over the winter and through the summer it just sits there completely unused but it's cut every month or so. A couple of years ago I started practicing in the corner of the field but I've now taken the thing the whole hog and we establish a wicket in the middle of the field through the summer. So at this time of year when it rains and gets a bit soggy I drag a big old roller over there and smooth it out. Now we're into the first stages of spring I'm beginning to cut it every now and then preparing it gradually. Have a look at this link - I live in Fern Hill so you can see how close it is.


Basildon, Essex SS16 5UE, UK
Link: <http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=ss16+5ue&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=10.989506,28.125&ie=UTF8&ll=51.5662,0.426112&spn=0.001411,0.005472&t=h&z=18>

The people who lease the field have a small building on the site which they use as a boxing club and in the summer they come out and run round the field sometimes as a part of their training and no-ones ever said anything to us when we've been there playing cricket despite the fact that it's obviously us that cuts their grass clandestinely!

Here's us cutting it for the first time this year - Wrist Spin Bowling: First mowing of the year and the image at the top of the blog is from the end last year.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;338076 said:
Calling the delivery I was trying to describe the Dooland flipper was probably wrong but it is the highly developed flipper that Grimmett taught Dooland and Pepper. It is the one that "squeezes' out of the fingers and thumb and would take a long time to get right. The one we are working on is the prototype that Grimmett first started experimenting with where you "flip" the ball as if it were a coin only upside down.
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I think the Dooland "flipper' that was thought to Benaud with an apple on a train is what philpott calls the convential backspinner ie further round than the big leg break. It has the thumb pointing to the bowler(180 degrees to the topspinner). It is what jenner calls the slider (funnily enough warne's slider is actually a leg break without spin if you see the video with Nicholas, so the teacher ie jenner and the student ie warne both have a slider but seem to have different ways of bowling it). Grimmetts classic flipper, there seems to be a general consensus was developed by him and is the one bowled with the finger click. Some say it was his stock delivery, and everyone knows the story that he clicked his left fingers when delivering a leg break to fool the batsman. He even did it against Bradman(who apparently was a decent leg spinner), and bowled him with a leg break after the Don was taunting him.

Having said that, philpott states that every good leg spinner he knew had a different type of backspinner that they seem to have guarded religously, as he states that in Australia no top leg spinner could survive without one. So even philpott seems to be mystified by how the other backspinners were bowled.

I was sorry for MacGain even though I have a certain antipathy towards the Aussie team (no offence, but I do not like dominating teams).I think they should not give up on him just yet.

I am still dying to hear your verdict on the wings to fly dave.Hope you got it and found it handy.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ah wings to fly! My captain didn't mention that I'll check right now to see if he's on Face book at the minute and see what's happened! He wasn't there so I've left him a message, I'd completely forgotten about that!

It's been nice here in the UK very sunny all day with the temp around the 16 - 18 degree centigrade mark which for this time of year is about degrees too warm. We've had now about 2 weeks of dry weather so all of the playing fields and pitches are drying out and our own field is drying up nicely and we're now already reaping the benefits of the little bit of rolling I did over the 2 or 3 weeks just gone when the field was still a bit soggy. So today I had half an hour on the grass bowling at one stump trying to bowl the Biggun. It wasn't that good - sometimes it happens a lot of times it doesn't, but when it happens there's a lot of turn, but the difference in the action feels absolutely minimal.

Later outside the house in the road I replicated it again after trying for 15 - 20 minutes and bowled 4 - 5 in a row and then was asked to do something by my wife, which then seemed to be the pattern for the rest of the day as I bowled at every opportunity I could.... At the school outside when the kids were swimming, again in the street and it seemed every time I was getting into the groove as such and getting the turn I was called to do something else! Hardly what you'd call a situation where you could focus 100%.

I've been reading some of the Philpott book and again picked up on some more insights into what I might be doing wrong. Page 62 he talks about bowlers with a vertical arm action (that's me) and he says that the vertical arms good for Off-spin (That's me again with my bloody wrong uns), but points out that the greatest Leg Spinners, Grimmett and Warne bowl with a far lower round arm action. He also mentions their height in relation to this saying that smaller blokes bowling wrist spin need to flight the ball upwards so the ball leaves the hand in an upward trajectory. I'm only 5'10" so it sounds like I'd benefit from the round arm action when trying to bowl the leg break? I

I also decided that in order to get the Biggun going I'd have to incorporate the flick. I can manage the big flick with the wrong un and the top-spinner but not the Leg break, so it was with all of this in mind that today during all of these bowling sessions all I did was try and bowl the ball with a much lower action and give it a big flick. Philpott also mentions using all the segments of the arm 'Use all the levers' - shoulders, upper arm, forearm, wrist and fingers to get the flick to rip the ball and spin it. I think this is another aspect of my bowling (especially the new leg break I've got) that is missing from my action, but today trying to flick the ball with the wrist, with the lower arm action I noticed stress in my forearm muscles for the first time ever, so perhaps that's an indication that I'm using all of or more of the levers?

In the latter session in the afternoon I resorted to shortening the distance over which I was bowling and it worked. Over a shorter distance using a stand start I can bowl a flighty Biggun that turns the proverbial country mile. So I think there's potential there and a key feature was the awareness of the position or my wrist, if I don't concentrate it turns round into the position for the wrong un, but if I 100% focus I can get the arm over and flick with the wrist in the right place and it does turn. So it looks like another intensive few months of practicing and observing what it is that I need to do to bowl big leg breaks.

Saddo's point about the slider being a leg break without the spin sounds feasible because that's the technique that I use. In fact I used it in the nets on Thursday and one of the other blokes spotted it - I think it was my mate Wizard who's the rival Wrist Spinner in my team 'You just bowled a seamer' he stated noting the difference in technique. With regards the Flipper and mine is the Grimmett version it's an interesting point that Philpott as you've mentioned see's it shrouded in mystery and I don't think Philpott himself in the book dwells on the flipper that much which again suggests that perhaps it's not a ball he ever used or had confidence with? It always surprises me how much mystery surrounds the Flipper - commentators accredit it to all sorts of balls when they don't understand what's happening with spinners - especially Warne and it's interesting that somewhere I read that Warne lost his for a long period.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I wished Mc Gain all the best too Sadspinner I always go for the legspinner no matter what team he plays for but I fear he is too slow and top class batsmen can play him easily off the pitch don't you think?
It really pays to study the evolution of the flipper and backspinners in general. Most legspinners in Australia find out early on the need to develop a backspinner of some sorts to counteract the bounce. You can have a batsmen bamboozled and beat him continually only to see the topspin allow the ball to bounce over the stumps or hit the pads too high for LBW. The backspinner is a real cut through delivery.
I have read somewhere that Terry Jenner did not know how to bowl a flipper until Rod Marsh showed him at the cricket academy in Adelaide after Warne had unleashed his flipper in the early 90's apparently no-one showed him how to till then. Jenner would have been in his late 40,s by then. I find that unbelievable as he came from South Australia the home of Grimmett and why didn't Benaud show him in the 60,s when Jenner played for Australia?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The delivery Benaud learnt on the train with the apple was the slider it was Doug Ring the Australin legspinner who showed him after the Lords test of 1953 . Dooland showed him the flipper earlier on that tour when the Australians played Notts. For this he used a cricket ball. So Benaud had to go all the way to England to learn these deliveries.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

So macca, which do you think is the slider:
a) warne's version ie a legspinner with no leg spin as per video with nicholas or
b) jenner or philpott version of the conventional backspinner ie at 180 degrees to the topspinner.

Dave you might want to include the following leg spinners on your blog. A few were very larger than life characters. Unfortunately at least 2 ie Iverson(really an offspinner,or carrom ball bowler),and Faulkner took their life as they suffered from depression.Leg spin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Even though Ring and Dooland are not mentioned
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I was wondering where are you getting all this history from? I'll have a look at the link - it's making me consider ordering that Clarrie Grimmett book that's sitting there in that shop somewhere.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The first 3 books on the right are written by grimmett. Shame no new editions exist, even though Woolmer quotes some paragraphs from his book. Would be interesting to know if someone around the world would be doing a PhD on grimmett or some legendary leg spinner. Sometimes I would like to go back in time and imagine I am seeing him bowling. God knows what an atmosphere there would have been in those days. Somehow O'Reilly who Bradman seemed to prefer does not seem to grip our attention as much as the diminutive clarrie! [Biographical cuttings on Clarrie Grimmett] | National Library of Australia Maybe a present from your wife. Mine has already snubbed my advances into these books of past mysteries.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What's the situation with Drift and the Top-Spinner? I can understand that with the Wrong Un and the Leg Break you'll get drift because the ball is spinning diagonally or perpendicularly to the direction of flight. But do you think I'm right in saying that the only way you'll get drift with the Top-Spinner is if the ball has been shined one side and is rough the other. Or say for instance in a similar way that medium and fasts use the fingers to put a bit of side-spin on the ball to more or less do what a spinner does in cases where perhaps the wicket isn't offering any assistance with the spin - the ball will still have the big bounce but no turn, but because there is a little assistance with the wrist and fingers the ball cuts through the air slightly like a spin ball and therefore could drift? Does that sound feasible?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

On the subject of these Old Skool bowlers and in keeping with the tradition that maybe all spin bowlers are a bit 'Nut nut' as we say in these parts or as I'd rather put it eccentric. I've been considering walking out onto the pitch this season wearing a proper shirt with the full compliment of buttons down the front, made of quality cotton with my sleeves rolled up a la Clarrie Grimmett! I already buck the trend in that I refuse to wear those God awful nylon cricket trousers that cost a fortune and are covered in logos or really naff piping that disintegrate within a season. Preferring instead a classic pair of white Chino's that I've had for over 20 years. Again very Clarrie Grimmett, very 1940 - 1950's. So the idea of a proper shirt along with my Chino's is very appealling to me as it will obviously propogate my eccentric wrist spinner image!
 
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