Wrist Spin Bowling

Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Contributors
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I hope gundalf does not sue me for potentially breaching copyright or breaking some data protection laws. Would be interesting to see how spin friendly he found the matting compared to his drive and turf wickets.

I found a clip of Mcgain somewhere and he was doing the backspinning big leg break routine underarm from hand to chest and boy did he give it a flick. i look like a hemiplegic in comparison.

I understand you. Yesterday I went to turn my arm around. Where I practiced they where playing soccer in the adjacent football pitch. I felt quite inhibited with the young children and assistant referee looking. I had poor concentration and it was not so great. I believe that unless you relax and really get into that inner rythym, practice is not very helpful. So you have to concentrate as so many things can go wrong in the chain of events. I used to think this was rubbish when I heard professionals say this but now I understand.

Look at these stills from Danish Kaneria. Funnily without having seen it before i had tried the flipper as in the picture with all fingers on the ball. The leg spinner does not look as we thought, it rather looke like a topspinner Rashid Latif Cricket Academy :: Bowling Tips :: Spin it like Kaneria
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hello , it looks like I found some leg spinners. Someblokecalleddave is doing a good job spreading the Philpott Gospel. " The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling" is one of the best text books on any subject don't you think?. You have to read and re-read it many times though to get it. Our local library got rid of the copy I used to borrow regularly and it has been a few years since I have seen it. I will have to track down another copy. I can't remember his advice for teaching the flipper to young kids. I know it's not recommended to start them too young but my eleven year old has got his leggie ,toppie and wrongun going good and this winter he is keen on working up a flipper. He uses the flicking marbles type thumb action and gets plenty of back-spin. I dont know if I should let him keep going or block him from doing it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

nah its alright saddo, i'm not in that pic anyway as thats our lads who went in 2007 and I went last year in 2008, unfortunately our plans fell through this year due to the pound-euro exchange rate.

As for the matting it was pretty conducive to turn and I was turning it at least the width of the stumps every ball, turf is pretty near the same surprisingly especially at my clubs home ground which is a pretty decent spinners wicket(or at least it was last year, fingers crossed for this year), i'd say my drive isn't quite as good for the ball to grip though its by no means bad to bowl on.

the philpott book is definitely the best book i've read on wrist spin, he is definitely passionate about it, its a shame that he's a bit old to give demos being over 74.

My legspin is really up and down at the mo, I can get it right for a few balls especially at the start of a session but it begins to fall apart as a session goes on, seems to be more issues with balance and probablly concentration too. At least its an improvement over nothing, might just need more practice.

I hope mcgain debuts in the test later in the week, will be great to see if he does.

btw dave I study computing science.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

You can't go wrong with the computing option - that'll put you in good stead for the future no doubt. I noted we've been joined by a new bloke from NSW who knows the Philpott book - good to have you on board mate (Macca) and I hope you'll join in the discussions and debate. With regards your son I'm not sure, I know I'm kind of reluctant to encourage my 7 year old to start trying to learn the variations as I feel he's probably best off getting the Leg Break fully sussed before going on to the others? But by the age of 11 I'm not so sure, but if your son's got all the others I can't see that it'll do that much harm. It'll be interesting to see how he does with it as Richie Benaud claims it took him 4 years or something daft to learn it to the point where he used in a match. Benaud also says don't go near the Flipper till you've mastered the others.

What does everyone else think? What do coaches say?

Oh yeah and Macca is with us on the fact that the Philpott books is so in depth you've got to keep reading it over and over again and referring to it frequently. I've been reading the latter chapters recently which I think I kind of skimmed before and the sense I got from the book this time round is that it really is a book for someone who's intentions are test cricket - it is so in depth and the levels of committment that he suggests are beyond most kids these days. He says that when he set out as a 6 year old on the cricket pathway he spent virtually every waking hour of his life immersed in cricket not because (I'll quote him - it's here on my desk) he was dedicated but because 'I was being selfish, I was doing what I enjoyed most'. But if you think that the bloke is 74 he's talking about 1940 and back in those days there weren't a lot going on for a kid to do other than cricket especially in Australia with it's vastness and sparse population? Kids these days have got distractions going on all over the shop - Play stations, Nintendo DS's, Lego, 2 million channels on the TV and this is all stuff that happens fast and is so accessible, whereas cricket is slow - it's a patience thing and as we know if you're talking in terms of wanting to be good at it you're talking big commitment and it's not easy for them to grasp.

www.legspinbowling.blogspot.com
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;337063 said:
The leg spinner does not look as we thought, it rather looke like a topspinner Rashid Latif Cricket Academy :: Bowling Tips :: Spin it like Kaneria
Click to expand...

That is just an illiusion of the camera angle and the timing of the picture. It is actually a normal overspun leg-break wrist position. The picture in question shows the position after he has flicked his hand; he would have normally released the ball by now.

Dave's photos are taken before the wrist is flicked and from a different angle. That is why there is a disparity.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Also all the images are front on - does he bowl front-on this bloke? And yeah EOW's right this is before any wrist flick has happened at about 12 o'clock.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Gundalf, do you feel that the higher bounce was more helpful than the turf pitches. Also when you bowl the googly do you still usethe three finger grip ie spinning with the middle finger, or do you use the traditional grip?

Macca welcome. Is your son coached pofessionally, and where you ever coached. Any advice would be more than welcome and definitely helpful. Apparently the flipper cause excessive strain on the shoulder, so it should be practiced with care. I think as the other eminent members pointed out through their bitter experience it is better that he persists with the hard spun leg breaks 90% of the time, and work on his accuracy,line and length. Also it is better at his young age to experiment with variable amounts of side and top spin on his leg break as at it is infinitely easier for them to make these minor changes, they have more plasticity than us at our older age. That is the leg break sort of becomes imprinted in them the more they practice it.

EOW, I cannot really believe you do not play the game seriously as you seem to grasp things very easily. It seems you have a very clear mind what leg spin is all about, and we appreciate your precious input.

A good word for you too Dave just in case you were getting an itsy bitsy jealous of attention paid to the other eminent leggies on the site: you know you are the life and soul of this thread. I admire your dedication , perseverance and attention to detail.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

No I'm just a Saddo like you, but just love writing all this stuff, it helps that I don't like television and I've got obsessive tendencies.

I'm sitting here at the minute trying to come up with a version of a graphic to help with explaining the rotation on the ball in conjunction with the magnus effect on my new blog. I've got aspirations for the blog to be 'the' on-line resource. I think though I've cocked up with the semantics of the word Legspin. I used the literation from cricinfo but have since seen it used far more commonly as Leg Spin or Leg-Spin with the dash so right from the outset I've marginalised many of my potential viewers with the spelling!

I was going to mention the potential for the Flipper to be physically demanding in some way, but couldn't remember whether I'd read that somewhere or not, but I rings a bell now you've said it. I also notice that it has a straining affect on the deltoid muscle in my case. This is potentially a question that needs to be asked in the Nutrition and Fitness pages for clarification? I'll post over there as well..
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

yeah I would say that the flipper puts more strain on your shoulder and that could maybe be potentially harmful to a kids growing body so i'd be careful.

As for the bounce I actually prefer the turf pitches being tall and having a high action mean on the harder wickets like concrete based matting the ball gets up into the batsmans waist, sometimes it can just sit up to be hit though it is useful in some ways.

As for the googly I don't change my grip at all really and do spin it off the middle finger still though sometimes it does help to have the thumb on the ball to try and steady the grip a little more.

Anyway i'm just wondering how steady is the seam for you guys when you bowl the ball through the leg break as if you look at someone like warne the seam is perfect but mine used to be pretty decent but at the moment its scrambled all over the place and the ball isn't consistently landing on the seam.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Your website is coming together very nicely. We seem to be craving more information and clips of leg spinners.

Not many leg spinners worldwide. Mcgain not being given much chance in south africa (saving him for the poms), Kaneria has been marginalised thanks to terrorism, maybe Mishra against new zealand tonight. Chawla seems to have vanished. Kumble retired,Mendis not really a leg spinner but still shrouded in mystery. Rashid, who knows , they may try him in the one dayers. They will try to attack him, and predictably he will start firing them rather than flighting them in. No wonder people are finding cricket boring. There are no leg spinners with their trickery to keep you mesmirised. Philpott right again that the came is boring and slow without spinners. The man is a genius.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Did you see that clip I came across where there was a report from an academy or a school where Philpott was still doing his stuff? I can't believe my luck that I've stumble upon a team that is loaded with spinners of all ages albeit some of them off-spinners but spinners nonetheless that seem to encourage and want spinners to take an active part in all of the games at all levels! But elsewhere all the teams we play there seems to be a distinct lack and even to the point where my 7 year old joined his team the first thing they did with him was try and get him to bowl seam up.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Gundalf, i thought you used your thumb to bowl the leg break. You must have big hands to bowl even the googly without using your thumb. When I try the conventional grip, the ball slips out if I do not use the thumb.


As regards the seam, mine is usually quite vertical, like a very small leg break with loads of topspin. I have one ball that is half red half white that helps me notice how the seam is. I am sometimes tempted to paint the seam white to try to get consitency with wrist position on release. That way i would understand how my wrist must be to get a better seam position, if you understand what i mean. With scrambled seam i think you get less drift, but the batsman might be more confused which way it will turn if he does not read it from the hand. Also with scrambled seam some may grip (if they hit the seam), others may skid (hitting the shiny part). According to warne this natural variation is the best variation as even the bowler has no idea how the ball will behave.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I can't wait to see this wings to fly DVD, I've got big expectations of it, but at the same time I'm kind of sceptical and wont be that too surprised it pans out to be more of the same.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ah the Wrong One! I was going to say my thumbs not involved but I've just picked a ball up and yeah it's there sneaking round the back doing something - kind of guiding it I think?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

You ba*&^%$. The last thing before i sleep you torture me with the thought of the dvd by our one and only spin doctor.

Well in my part of the world its past cindirella time. I will treat my senses to a chapter of the new testament of the bible dealing with fielding. Oh i am getting spiteful now. Bye leggies, a dreamy night of bosies, zooters and flippers beckons. I hope sleep will help me solve my flighted problems
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I don't think wings to fly features Philpott, it'll interesting to see who it does feature? I was thinking about this earlier - my youngest son was with his mates outside and he was trying to teach them to bowl wrist spin and he came in and said 'Dad can you come out and show teach them how to bowl'? So I went out and showed these kids how to bowl using the windmill technique and within 2 goes both these kids were bowling okay with a nice straight armed delivery and it struck me that I've missed my chance of ever doing anything of any consequence with my bowling, but despite my own inability could I if I had some training from the ECB set kids on the right road to becoming spin bowlers and carry the flag and maybe make some contribution to the art?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Last post now i promise. I think there is jenner the spin doctor in it.

And yes, young childrens neuromuscular system seems to adapt much quicker. We have to unlearn bad habits first, and the fact we loose thousands of neurones a day doesn't help much.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

well done for getting the message out dave, we need more leggies to that bit of magic in cricket. Will be interesting to see how good you think the ecb vid is say compared to the cloverdale vids and if there are any useful drills make sure you tell us all :) . The trouble is with a scrambled seam is the newer the ball it grips even less as its more shiny and the seam is more pronunced from the ball.

On the subject of clubs encouraging seam over spin, I know of reports from friends who have attended games of one club in the north staffs area who actively discourage the bowling of spin and encourage the "proper" bowling style of seam.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top