Wrist Spin Bowling

Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Contributors
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Woolmer has some complicated physics including but not only the magnus effect. I had read it and felt uneasy that part of it seemed horribly wrong.

My understanding is that oversoin with topspin gives drift with the seam acting as a rudder and something that helps create differences in presssure between the two sides. Funnily enough Woolmer says that a big leg spinner ie complete side spin does not give drift(I am not sure about this though, as I saw a delivery by warne to tendulkar that drifted a lot before spinning).


With backspin eg the flipper or at medium pace with shine on one side you should get SWING not drift. The same priciple of the arm ball with the offspinner that I think is mainly an outswinger. That is my understanding
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I will have to have a look at those videos and sort that out sadspinner. Here is more history, it was Bobby Simpson that first showed Warne the slider and he learnt it from his fellow New South Welshman, Peter Philpott! These deliveries are a bit like chinese whispers, they change a bit when somebody shows somebody else due to different finger strength , hand size etc, Most of these deliveries are relatively unique to the exponent.
Dave has discovered the more roundarm you go the more you can launch the bigun cause it allows more of that spinning to yourself backspin. Most of us have to go more over the top for our variations Good batsmen also know this. They read your arm then confirm their suspicions by watching your wrist. This is how Tendulkar conquered Warne.
Grimmett looked way to roundarm and Kumble looks way to over the top but it didn't stop either becoming all time greats.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I am very round arm, Grimmett type (ha,ha). Still do not get the big leg break. I mainly tend to get a small leg break but mainly topspin the ball. Grimmett though round arm had the very good flipper we had discussed, so he could bowl that variation round arm. Probably now with computer analysis, batsmen would have sussed him.

What do you think about Mendis. I have not seen much of him but seems to use the Iverson/Gleeson grip together with the carrom ball. I think the Indians and even Pakistanis are already sorting out his 'mystery'.

Kumble as we all know relied mostly on the small leg break, googlies(more than 1 type, and more than 1 grip). And the flipper. I do not think he was very capable of bowling the big leg break. His strength was his great accuracy.

I think in my case Icannot bowl the big leggie because
1) have small fingers( about 5'10)
2) do not rip the ball enough
3) weakish wrist flick
4) inflexible wrist from side to side that would help add more revs.

By the way macca, did you ever get your claws on the grimmett books. That would be interesting. The only snippets i have seen are on the woolmer book about length and flight, that were very profound for someone wruting over 70 years ago
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

being round arm does help alot for adding more sidespin but I can still bowl the big leg break from a high acton just with a different load up but so that the wrist comes round like its round arm bu the arm stays high. Though saying that grimmett wasn't a big spinner of the ball though, maybe he just didn't give the ball a big rip, which would explain his amazing accuracy.

On the subject of mendis, the carrom ball as its known is just a leg break bowled from the iverson-gleeson grip but using only the fingers not the wrist, mendis also bowls his off break with this same grip which is why he is so hard to pick. On the whole though mendis is more akin to a medium pacer and now the batsmen have changed their apporach to him to play him as a medium pacer he has been alot less effective.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Lucky you gundalf,I am jealous.

As regards Mendis it is true they are considering him as a medium pacer that bowls very straight as he gets a lot of LBWs. I presume Kumble was nearly in the same class, but he remained effective till the end.

Leggies I am very tempted to contact the manly cricket club me thinks where Mr Philpott coaches and tell him for some tips to this site, with possibly some drills to help our agony. Problem is I am a bit shy (really), and am afraid of the wrath that our little prophet might resreve
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hey Gundalf you must have went to the same school as me cause thats how I sort of visualize a big legbreak, round arm wrist from a higher action, if that makes since.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've given up on the Biggun.......

Slightly colder today with a bit of a North Westerly wind, but generally very sunny and pleasent. So that meant around mid day having realised there was no football on the field I could get some bowling in. So with a stump at each end and 16 balls I worked on the Big Leg Break for an hour. Compared to yesterday it was worse which was a complete disaster and very demoralising. Over the hour or so that I was there it simply got worse. But despite how crap it was I kept at it and in the end sticking with the Leg Break I went back to the normal variety to see how I'd do with that? Initially it was awful - too long and shed loads of wides down the legside and it wasn't going anywhere, but I persevered and eventually it came good - right length and right line with loads of bounce and this is off a soggy field.

Sometimes I have to wonder about myself because I have a way of bowling the Legbreak but because of the total obessesion with the Big Legbreak I neglect a ball that works for me and chase after the impossible. The other thing is I write all this stuff down but then try several different ways of bowling still chasing the elusive Biggun not sticking to the technique that works for me. The thing is my normal legbreak when it's going well produces a healthy amount of turn which for all I know is as good as my mate the Wizards and it's him that I'm out to beat this year with regards a target. So having eventually got it together I've decided that I'm going to write it down in a little book (The technique that works for me) and chuck it in my bag of balls and sit and read it before I start to bowl. Get my head in the right zone and focus on bowling my Bog Standard Legbreak (BSL). I reckon if I do this I'll be on the right track and maybe come back to the Biggun next year in the off - season? This way at least I'll have the Legbreak and it'll be my stock ball. So that's my new obective.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;339666 said:
I think in my case Icannot bowl the big leggie because
1) have small fingers( about 5'10)
2) do not rip the ball enough
3) weakish wrist flick
4) inflexible wrist from side to side that would help add more revs.
Click to expand...

It'd be interesting to see what you mean by a weak wrist flick and how inflexible you are. I've got a sense that my wrist flick is good and that my wrist is quite flexible it'd be interesting to see someone who has got a good wrist action in order to have a benchmark. That way maybe I/we could all stop kidding ourselves that we'll ever bowl the Biggun?

I noticed that you blokes had answered my drift/swing question in that new thread - cheers for that but I posted over there to see if I could get some more answers from a wider audience! Maybe it's only us that cares - hence you're the only people other than Mas! Anyway off the back of the answers - surely there's some merit in polishing the ball when you're spinning and Warne definitely did this - as you could mix drift and swing together? Actually I think this is all straining my brain too much!!!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yes true, I should forget about the big one and concentrate on line and length and the small one.

I suspect polishing the ball had 3 functions. It might have had a minimal effect on drift,helped his flipper and kept the swing/fast bowlers happy that he is not ruining the shine. As far as I know he bowled a lot in tandem with McGrath,so he had to take care of the ball too.

I am surprised as well at the lack of interest in other members at their input on swing. Maybe only spinners are obsessed, even though I rarely saw posts on left arm spinners or offbreak bowlers.

Here is the legend at manly cricket club. We should send Macca to interview him and grant him saintly status. Possibly a halo round macca's name if he accomplishes the feat. manlycricket.com - Peter Philpott (Coaching Staff)
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I've come across that one before now and the old bloke is still doing his stuff! I wonder how mobile his wrist is? On the same theme - does anyone know what Warne does these days other than buying Bugattit Verons? You'd have hoped that he'd take up the challenge of teaching people his skills, but I suppose with the kind of money he's got and the age he is he's probably 'Having it large' and living the playboy life and doing a bit of IPL work? As someone pointed out a couple of days ago these wrist spinners are pretty colourful characters with a tendency to crash and burn, let's hope that Warney puts something back.

With regards the feedback with swing - I've been under the impression that it's not that easy to just pull it out of the bag - the weather plays a part in whether the ball swings or not. Having said that my ten year old does a pretty good job of it with a plastic Kookaburra Ball, but it's not something I've dwelled on much, but with the recent questions I've been asking on here I've dug out a book by Bob Willis on fast bowling from 1984 and I might have a look through this in part to just learn more about it and also to help with my older sons fast bowling. I reckon I'll look at what he does in future (My son) and see what way he gets it to swing and try and figure out why it does?

Yeah I'm with you on the Biggun after todays bunch of pies. I've just been throwing a tennis ball indoors with my BSL (Bog Standard Legbreak) looking at flicking the fingers a bit - which I suppose makes it finger spin rather than wrist spin? I'm going to have to have a look at right arm finger spin that turns towards the off-side!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;339666 said:
I think in my case Icannot bowl the big leggie because
1) have small fingers( about 5'10)
2) do not rip the ball enough
3) weakish wrist flick
4) inflexible wrist from side to side that would help add more revs.
Click to expand...

Well small fingers shouldn't stop you bowling a side-spinner as it all to do with wrist position. I'm 5'7'' with tiny fingers and I can bowl a side-spinner, although small fingers may affect amount revs(still turns more than the over-spun one), I'm not certain of this though, but it would make sense as they would be shorter levers(we need an expert to confirm or deny this. I am just speculating.).

If you are not ripping the ball then I'm not surprised you have trouble turning it. I have bowl many a side-spinner that hasn't turned because I didn't give it a big rip. Another important thing to remember is that your whole body is involved in putting work on the ball, not just the wrist(although the wrist is very important). The other week in practice when I finally improved my energy through the crease , I got more spin. It's the same wherever I bowl; if I put my whole body behind the delivery it spins more than when I'm lazy and just meander through the motion of the bowling action.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yes I agree eow that short fingers should not be a hindrance, but as you say long fingers=long levers, so more revs from the fingers only. eg monty has huge fingers and gets loads of revs.

When India were playing Australia , harbhajan singh bowled a huge sidespinner, you know like a huge leg break but obviously the revs in opposite direction and I was shocked as Gavascar was saying that it was a topspinner. I did not expect it from one of the best indian batsman. Also not for the first time they called warnes slider the flipper when this bouced quite high. Some of the commentators were top test players and it is quite surprising how they get it wrong even with the help of slo-mo.

I was seeing your post yesterday of how you will be attired to impress your eccentricity as a leggie. Maybe try smoking some pot,getting some girls on the side,taking diuretics,and giving information on the pitch to third parties. That way you will be a complete leggie. Oh and appeal and bleach your hair etc etc.

Being more serious, had you been in McGains place being carted all over the oval, what would your tactics be besides trying to hide
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

lol i have a different problem than you guys

i have got the big leg break, normal leg break, top spinner
BUT i cant get my googly to turn huge it only turns alittle, i think tht my wrist is to used to bowling leg breaks, any tips for a big googly wud b helpful ?? i also find it hard to bowl a googly steady seem its always scrambled whilst my leg break is side spun with stedy seam, its really anoying because if i had this big googly i would get even more wickets!!! lol.

and

Dave, i read that when your trying the big legbreak you sometimes spray the ball dwn legside??

i have some tips on bowling big leg breaks that may give you more things to think about?

1) weight -- make sure ur weight is on the front foot
2) Release-- dont release the ball to early this causes it to over drift dwn legside
3) i dont no how to explain this but when you bowl if your lead leg(left leg)
is some what right of your body, this makes you bring your right leg round further causing more rotation and more spin, watch warne he does it.

i hope these tips help you, if nt 4get i said anything :) lol
i bowl round arm, so batmen suss when i try to bowl my little googly and top spinner because my hand release is higher.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I didn't see any of the Australia v Sth Africa (that's what you're referring to)? so I can't comment. Stupidly and patrioticly I was watching England get whomped by the WI's.

I'll give the bleached hair, drugs and girls a miss though.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Leggie law - I'll give some of that a look in. But I'm definitely giving up on the Biggun for a good few months if not until the season finishes. I need to polish up my BSL over the next 3 or 4 weeks ready for the start of the season, so I can't afford to keep mucking around trying to bowl the Biggun and getting nowhere.

With regards the Googly I don't know what to suggest. I got it by spending hour after hour trying to do it but anyone in the know will tell you 'don't try this at home' because you run the risk of screwing up your Leg break. I'd say that if you can get a small turn with your wrong un stick with that and work on it in small stages. Maybe bowl an over of wrong uns every 5 Leg break overs? But if it comes good - don't keep bowling it to push it get better - stick with the 1 over every 5 or more of the others?

Do you use a vertical arm on the Googly? You need to I reckon and you've got to twist your arm as well as your wrist - don't worry so much about the fingers and I'd ignore the scrambled seam, I think mine comes out with the scrambled seam and it still turns big.

Oh yeah and my grip is really relaxed with even spacing between the fingers.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Good points by leggie law. i would add using the leading arm as well. Yesterday I was seeing a young tennis player hitting forehands without use of his left hand for balance. When i told him his shot direction improved, so like rhythm,the leading hand/arm is important in more than 1 sport.

I always find difficulty in when to release the ball. Edge of willow had said when you are front on. I image if you bowl it when side on it is easier to get more side spin. I know this as I tried it with the standstill drill.

As regards the googly when I saw Kumble,mishra,warne they all had a scrambled seam, It might confuse the batsman more as he cannot see which way the revs are.

Also what exercises do you do. I have one of those thin elastic bands, but have never used them. Please do not tell me press ups or push ups , had a slipped disc in my neck. Aerobically I am ok, i jog abouy 30km weekly even though my knees have been screaming with pain for a few months.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;339797 said:
Also what exercises do you do. I have one of those thin elastic bands, but have never used them. Please do not tell me press ups or push ups , had a slipped disc in my neck. Aerobically I am ok, i jog abouy 30km weekly even though my knees have been screaming with pain for a few months.
Click to expand...


The main one I do is one of those bands gripped behind the head and pulled apart steadily. I'm not certain whether that's the best way or whether you hold the bands apart for some time? I usually do 25 - 30 reps several times a day (3 or 4).

I also do the Plank 30 seconds straight - 15 seconds left foot raised, 15 seconds right foot raised.

Power walking 20 minutes. every other day Mon, weds and Fri rest at weekend. Yeah sod running 30 km those days are over, I might be able to do it - I just don't want to do it!!! Liz Wizard and David Hinchcliffe advocate low impact cricket specific.

I've just been looking at vids on youtube have a look at the rotator cuff thread.

This kind of stuff - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B3hYsjNAhI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_zilegpVwY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MM...CC7F53AE7&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=9
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Sadspinner old son, I watched those videos you mentioned and the short answer to your question is Jenner is demonstrating "the slider" and Warne is demonstating "a slider".
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;339797I said:
always find difficulty in when to release the ball. Edge of willow had said when you are front on. I image if you bowl it when side on it is easier to get more side spin. I know this as I tried it with the standstill drill.
Click to expand...

I said that because you were talking about releasing the ball when you were side-on. No bowler is side on when they release the ball. Your body rotates around in the action, so at the actual point of release you are front on, facing the direction you want to bowl.

But I'm not sure that it tells you when to release. It also very hard to judge when that point is as a side-on bowler, since to happens so fast in the rotation from side-on position to the follow through. Also, release point is as much about where your arm is as where your body is. I have a bit of trouble with releasing to early, which is more due to that I release when my arm is to far behind me, than that I might be slightly under-rotating before release.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i've just been flicking through cricinfo and found this great article determining the effectiveness of test playing leggies Leg Spinners ? A statistical assessment - Inbox at Cricinfo

There are some really surprising results especially macgill, though warne and grimmett are both at the top

though supposedly it includes all leg spinners who played 5 test and took 20 wickets, our own peter philpott should be on the list then, and he is not, I think we need to change that and terry jenner is missing too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top