Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Re EOW's comments on what to bowl or what not to bowl is interesting. Both my son's seem really set in their decisions as to who they are as bowlers. So much so that they potentially neglecting all other aspects of the game because they only see themselves as bowlers. Joe said last night 'We're Monty Panesar bowlers.... we can't bat - we just bowl' referring to him and me! Cheeky blighter and that's with all the effort that I've been putting in recently to improve my run of ducks last season. As a teenager in a team it must be difficult to make the decisions as to what kind of bowler you are and I suppose that you do have the luxury of being young and changing your technique. I know recently I looked at the way that Harbijan Singh bowls with his double rotation of his arm as he comes in to bowl the ball and found it quite appealing in that it was a lot faster and had the potential to turn into a simple straight slow medium pace technique. But I stopped as it wasn't really helping with my leg break. I'd imagine that if you went through a bad phase in your bowling as a youngster it might be tempting to change from one discipline to anothe quite easily rather than persevere over the longer period. I think looking at the committment and time scales that Grimmett and Jenner both write about you can see why younger blokes could easily be tempted away from the Art of Wrist spin when they're seemingly not moving forward. When you read Philpotts book - the amount of committment and love he suggests all the way through the book that you should give to the discipline even has me questioning 'Am I doing enough'?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hey Dave it might be a bit late in the season but what about trying to bowl over a longer distance, say 25 yards for a little while? I did it for a month or so in the winter once then found 22 yards easier to go back to. You look like you are doing very good over 17 yards.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;346142 said:
I suppose you're up to your neck with studies? Do you find it difficult to make time?
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working full time as well as my exams means everyday getting back from work its dark, and there really aren't enough hours in the day for anything else atm
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I would have to credit this thread for my sons recent improvement as a bowler. It coincided with the end of the season where I hadn't coached him for weeks and just let him do his own thing , which is good from time to time, but he ended up losing his line and sidespin.
But since I found this site and re-read Grimmett and Philpott, I have taken a whole new approach to his coaching and it is paying dividends, he bowled his indoor coach today with his third delivery.
I am finding it a lot harder to play him as well, trying to drive him on the front foot takes better footwork than mine. But playing him from the crease isn't that easy either, he gets real zip off the wicket lately despite the fact he looks slow through the air, you dont realise the nip in his bowling untill you have to make a decision with a bat in your hand.
I am working on uploading some video of him soon.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What a great thread! I’m a young leg spinner, who starting bowling leg spin properly last season. I’ve been doing loads of practice recently I would really like some tips on how to strengthen the skin on the spinning finger as I’ve developed a few blisters and I'm finding it hard to bowl at the moment. Thanks
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Cotton Eye Joe;345854 said:
^_^

Yay! I got my leg break straightened out. And by straightened out, I mean it's breaking again. Of course, I can't throw a wrong 'un or topspinner anymore, but that'll come back, right? :cool:
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Yep - what did you do that sorted your leg break?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

eddie12;346176 said:
What a great thread! I’m a young leg spinner, who starting bowling leg spin properly last season. I’ve been doing loads of practice recently I would really like some tips on how to strengthen the skin on the spinning finger as I’ve developed a few blisters and I'm finding it hard to bowl at the moment. Thanks
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First of all welcome to the forum. We all look forward to your experiences/frustrations/triumphs. You are lucky to have a blister which means you have the most important ingredient for wrist spin, and that is that you rip the ball. The master as we call him here(Peter Philpott), gives some advice. He says that some used friars balsam and methylated spirit pre-season. He also states that some used to urinate on them (I am not joking, check page 76 of his book). The one he favours was rubbing calamine oleosa, then coated with boracic/boric acid. I think the best is to let the blister heal and wait for hard skin to develop on the spinning finger.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;345907 said:
I would have to credit this thread for my sons recent improvement as a bowler. It coincided with the end of the season where I hadn't coached him for weeks and just let him do his own thing , which is good from time to time, but he ended up losing his line and sidespin.
But since I found this site and re-read Grimmett and Philpott, I have taken a whole new approach to his coaching and it is paying dividends, he bowled his indoor coach today with his third delivery.
I am finding it a lot harder to play him as well, trying to drive him on the front foot takes better footwork than mine. But playing him from the crease isn't that easy either, he gets real zip off the wicket lately despite the fact he looks slow through the air, you dont realise the nip in his bowling untill you have to make a decision with a bat in your hand.
I am working on uploading some video of him soon.
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Yeah I definitely reckon this thread works - you just don't feel as though your working through this on your own. The suggestions that people make and the references that they're using just make you feel supported and it gets you through.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;346149 said:
Hey Dave it might be a bit late in the season but what about trying to bowl over a longer distance, say 25 yards for a little while? I did it for a month or so in the winter once then found 22 yards easier to go back to. You look like you are doing very good over 17 yards.
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Macca the only way I can bowl a Leg Break over 22 yards is to bowl the other one that relies simply on a palm facing forward straight hand, where as the ball is released the 3rd finger trails over the ball putting the revs on it (No Flick). I could easily do this over 22- 25 yards. If I try this 17 yards version with the flick of the wrist it come out as a Top Spinner erring towards a wrong un.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Reply to Dave on deciding what to bowl.

In my case I haven't actually had to make a final decision, as I haven't played in a proper team yet.

However, I do think I have made more of a commitment to both kinds of spin bowling(and leg-spin more so than off-spin), than I have to seam-up. My seam-up has been rather neglected lately; my pace and accuracy are atrocious. The last time I seriously practiced(I've bowled a several horrible balls and maybe two reasonable balls since) was when I first found the Simply Cricket website and remodeled my seam-up action because I discovered that it was mixed(and it was quite inefficient as well).

If I joined a team tomorrow I have no doubt I would bowl off-spin to start with. My leg-spin just drops short to often to be used in a match, until I can constantly get it on length it would probably go unused, except maybe the occasional one to mess with the batsmen.

And yes it can be very tempting to change as youngsters. When I was 11, I gave up on leg-spin quickly because I could get more sideways movement with my leg-cutter, than with my attempted leg breaks, which always came out as top-spinners. I didn't really get back into wrist-spin until after an Ashes series in which Warne bowled; I can't remember if it was 2005 or 2007.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Cotton Eye Joe;345854 said:
^_^

Yay! I got my leg break straightened out. And by straightened out, I mean it's breaking again. Of course, I can't throw a wrong 'un or topspinner anymore, but that'll come back, right? :cool:
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I'd stick with the Leg Break for a while yet till it feels like a wholly natural thing to do, then bring back the Top - Spinner and start to bring in the Wrong Un on the odd ocassion and as you say they'll come in time, just be patient.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I was looking at the grip used by philpott in his book for the small and large googlies on pages 35 and 36. The fourth finger is not sitting on the seam as in the leg break, but is rather at right angles to the seam, what do you think. Did you ever use this grip, I had never really noticed it before.

Dave, I hope you survived your wife's ire today, just hope she did not have PMS as well. By the way I think your leg break must have hit some uneveness on the grass............. just joking, that was a ripper. I am feeling jealous, mine rarely seem to hit the stumps either from not turning enough, or too much. That's life, but if you always bowl like that or even 75 percent of the time you may take a bucket full this year.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

eddie12;346176 said:
What a great thread! I’m a young leg spinner, who starting bowling leg spin properly last season. I’ve been doing loads of practice recently I would really like some tips on how to strengthen the skin on the spinning finger as I’ve developed a few blisters and I'm finding it hard to bowl at the moment. Thanks
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Well that means you are probably using your finger properly and will have to wait for blisters to heal and pad on your finger to develop, you may have been practising a lot lately, or the start of the season. You can try taping the finger for a while, it takes a bit of getting used to.
Or it could mean you are holding the ball too tight, and relying on your finger to do too much. There are some creams that some guys use, to help heal the skin.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

My new leg spinner is working on his spin.
I have taught him a couple of basics and more so encouraging him to bowl leg spin.His line and length at times is way ward but he is ready to practice.
As a result in last 4 days of nets; he bowled me twice:eek: and i am happy he is enojying...
In fact today itself;l raised a challenge to my 3 new bowlers(2-Medium fast and 1-leg spin) and he was the only one to bowl me out with his quicker one(got me totally un-expected).The reward was a 10 Rupees Note:).
These sort of enjoyment certainly boosts a player's confidence...
I am hoping he would take more effort in his spin bowling.

Virender
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;346182 said:
I was looking at the grip used by philpott in his book for the small and large googlies on pages 35 and 36. The fourth finger is not sitting on the seam as in the leg break, but is rather at right angles to the seam, what do you think. Did you ever use this grip, I had never really noticed it before.

Dave, I hope you survived your wife's ire today, just hope she did not have PMS as well. By the way I think your leg break must have hit some uneveness on the grass............. just joking, that was a ripper. I am feeling jealous, mine rarely seem to hit the stumps either from not turning enough, or too much. That's life, but if you always bowl like that or even 75 percent of the time you may take a bucket full this year.
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You cheeky bleeder! There's more evidence where that comes from, ah the 75% factor - they turn when they're going well 75% (not neccesarliy like that - that was a good un) of the time but they rarely turn onto the stumps - loads go over the top others turn too sharp across the front of the stumps or not as much and miss the stumps. What matters is they turn. One more thing last year I found that most of the wickets I played on didn't offer any assistance with spin at all.

Additionally this is only over 16 yards.

Wife - I didn't get a game so I've been gardening and DIY-ing so she's well happy.

Philpotts grip in that image looks as though he's extended his fingers to approximate the point of release. My own fingers start to move off the stitching as I release if I do it in slow motion, but my own littel finger appears to be longer and so keeps contact with the seam. How relevant that is at the point of release I haven't got a clue?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Well if you got it over 16 yards it is only 6 to go. With persistence I am sure you will get there, and I am sure you have loads of that ingredient. As regards the wickets, I think that unless they are very dusty as in the sub continent or late in your summer, even world class spinners do not get massive turn except from rough outside the leg stump, which in a 1 day game I guess there is very little of. Did your big wrong ones turn though? And did you take a look at those grip on the bible for the wrong one? What are your thoughts.


Did not notice you had answered the grip bit.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've been working on my other Leg break recently, this is the one with the wrist flick as well as the fingers. This one if I stand still and throw it over a short distance almost breaks at right angles to the direction of travel. I refer to it as 'The Real' Leg Break because it has the wrist flick. Thing is I can't get it to work over any distance as it turns into a wrong un or a straight ball.

So for the last 2 weeks or so (I think I may have mentioned this on here) I've been bowling it at a small bit of wall between mine and neighbours garage. This has been over about 11 yards but there's no scope for lengthening the distance, but over the 2 weeks it's been coming together and I've got good accuracy at that distance and it turns so much more than my other leg break that relies on the fingers only. So today on the train reading Philpott again - The chapter "Eight Stages of Spin". I realised that I'd been doing exactly the right thing to perhaps develop this real Leg Break and it might be the time to take it to the next stage.

Just across the road there's an Oak Tree so I bowled to the Oak Tree setting a can a foot or so wide of the legside of the trunk and about 10' in front. I then bowled to the can trying to get the ball to turn in and hit the trunk. Additionally I lengthened the distance to 14 yards and I spent the best part of an hour bowling Leg Breaks. I reckon about 33% of them came good with the ball spinning into the trunk from the where the can was, some of them spinning so much they went wide of the trunk on the off-side.

What I reckon I'll do is stick to the 14 yards for the next week (maybe longer) until I'm able to pitch it on the can and hit the trunk 75% of the time. Only then I'll move to 16 yards, maybe 17 and then start again? The mistake I normally make is that I jump from 14 yards straight up to 22 and it always goes to pieces, so this time because of the promising results that have come from the slow gradual approach I'm going to stick to the taking this very slowly.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;346189 said:
Well if you got it over 16 yards it is only 7 to go. With persistence I am sure you will get there, and I am sure you have loads of that ingredient. As regards the wickets, I think that unless they are very dusty as in the sub continent or late in your summer, even world class spinners do not get massive turn except from rough outside the leg stump, which in a 1 day game I guess there is very little of. Did your big wrong ones turn though? And did you take a look at those grip on the bible for the wrong one? What are your thoughts.


Did not notice you had answered the grip bit.
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Yeah I did at the end of that last post. With regards the wickets most of the them just seem to absorb anything you throw at them. I don't understand the complexities of the wickets at all. Of all my balls last year it was the wrong uns that got some turn, my gipper was rubbish then so it was only used once or twice and it turned slightly. As well as having no response to spin, they don't often offer any bounce either. That created problems with my learning as on my own green wicket I was getting the Flippers to skid, top spinners to bounce and the Wrong Uns to turn and then when confronted with a beautiful real wicket it was like bowling into quicksand. I've come to accept it now and have different strategies - speed and length and the threat that it might turn!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I can attest to the efficacy of Philpotts method of using underarm/roundarm/overarm over short distances for teaching the legbreak and wrongun to beginners. Philpott claims the method can be used by learners and experieced players to learn, or indeed unlearn, the wrongun in one hour.
There is something else that helps, I dont know where I got this from, maybe Philpott? but you can learn a lot about all the deliveries by "bowling "against a wall and observing the balls behaviour as it spins against the wall.
If you stand 2 or 3 feet away and using mainly the forearm and wrist and fingers , aim the ball, it doesnt always have to be a cricket ball, about 18 inches to the right of your eyeline and bowl a legspinner it should spin to the left and you can catch it with your left hand, the wrongun will of course spin to the right and will have to be caught by stretching out your right hand and can be quite hard to catch. The topspinner will be somewhere in between and will come straight back at 90 degrees to the wall, and the backspinner will almost run down the wall, all the time observing the seam and the rotation.
The difference between the wrongun and legbreak become apparent, the elbow will go from facing downward for the latter and skyward for the former, I sometimes make my sons hand freeze in an exaggerated hand position like you are trying to stop traffic , with his palm facing the wall, after the legbreak. After the wrongun I get him to freeze his hand at delivery, not worry about catching the ball, and emphasise how much the elbow has to rotate to get the back of his hand to face the wall, and observe how the ball leaves the palm outside the fourth finger, whilst being spun by the third.
You can work on all your deliveries like this and the best thing is , the wall never lies!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

From what i hear during the occassional commentary of test cricket, people like Panesar prefer bouncy wickets like he had at old trafford where he took a five for than a wicket that turns a lot like he had in india where he did not get much success. I think philpott as well states what you say to have different strategies of flight, length change, drift, drop, and a good backspinner(now that remains more of an impossibility to me than the regular large leg break).

Today after a 90 hour week I had the first time to practice in force 6 wind off the mediterranean sea. Some relly spun , some really bounced/kicked but accuracy is still not ideal.And worst of all I still have a tendency to bowl too much down legside ie wide and too short rather than erring on being full. I can hear Macca rumbling, that that is a mortal sin
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave, if you only have a short distance to bowl on, you could try sitting down and trying to bowl ! It makes you work your wrist and fingers.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca I've done some wall work before now - but it's useful to have you describe it so eloquently and explain which way you should be expecting the ball to bounce/spin from and indeed it is Philpott that recommends that you bounce the ball directly at a wall and observe the direction in which it spins. I wasn't sure as my wall is brick work and I was suspicious that some of the deviation was due to the uneveness of the bricks and mortar.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo it's just practice. Yeah 90 hour weeks are not going to help either. I bowled poorly today, kind of 2 steps backwards from yesterday. I started out fine but then as the hour went on it slowly went to pieces. I think I need to take a note book with me and write stuff down about what feels right and what works. I can't believe your commitment to this when you're not in a team, you must be totally obsessed to do this after 90 hours of work.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;346051 said:
Dave, if you only have a short distance to bowl on, you could try sitting down and trying to bowl ! It makes you work your wrist and fingers.
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Now that sounds like a really good idea, I'll give that a go and see how it works.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

On finger care ,Grimmett said he always carried a piece of wet pumice stone in his kit and used it to smooth the callous on his finger and keep his touch or feel for the ball !
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'm still appreciating what you're saying and your suggestions, remember I'm still struggling with my Leg Break, it still needs a lot of work till I'll be happy with it and any drills such as the ones you've suggested I'm more than willing to try. One of them might lead the the epiphany moment that I'm seeking where it'll all come together?

I had few 20 - 30 minute sessions today. First one over 14 yards went exceptionally well - 70% success rate with the ball turning like the video that's just up-loading as I write (Give it another hour or so and search using 'someblokecalleddave leg break' and you should find it. I'll post the link once it's up-loaded later). Bouyed by the success in that session I did exactly what I said I wouldn't do yesterday on my blog, I went over onto the field with the video camera and marked out a 16 yard distance to bowl over. Needless to say it didn't go that well at all for some reason? It seems hard to believe that just changing to 16 yards makes such a massive difference - but it did.

After half an hour of that and it only being 10% successful I went back to the 14 yard wicket under the Oak Tree and did so much better again. So I'll stick with the 14 yards for a week or so at least. Not easy this.

Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWY5Tmbm5-I what do you reckon? Look at the shadow as well. I'll have to suss out a different angle for the tripod - maybe further behind and a lot higher so that you can see my bowling action.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo , I think the backspinner, the one Jenner calls the slider, is one delivery where you may need to take your thumb off the ball and get it out of the way a bit.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

looks good dave, love the shadow, lol. I'm sure you will get there eventually as that looks like a good leg break over that distance it will probablly be your body just needing to adjust to the different distances. I know my bowling is going backwards at the moment as i've only practiced for an hour in the last 2 weeks and that was awful, so much worse than just 2 weeks before where I was back at my best.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I play guitar a bit and you need the tips of your fingers to be tough and hard, I used to drag my fingers across anything that was hard and abrasive in order to toughen up the skin so that makes sense. It's the same when I was a surfer, walking across rocks, sand, roads, grass all summer in bare feet, the bottoms of my feet were like leather. I remember when I came back to the smoke in the winter, the first few baths in hot water and I must have lost about 1/4" of skin off my feet. But when I was there I could walk across gravel and run across rocks. The harder you wear your skin the tougher it gets.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

It'll be nice to get it up to 17 yards in the next few weeks, maybe I'll be able to bowl out some 10 year olds with it!

Seriously though - it's a painfully slow business when you're gagging to get it up there for the full 22 yards, but as soon as I do that it just goes to pieces. I feel like there is just some small thing that I need to get right and it'll be there, when it is right I can feel it out of the hand and as soon as it come off the fingers I can say that's a good un and 9 times out of ten it is a good un. It'll come good eventually - I'm hoping by July.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;346199 said:
I play guitar a bit and you need the tips of your fingers to be tough and hard, I used to drag my fingers across anything that was hard and abrasive in order to toughen up the skin so that makes sense. It's the same when I was a surfer, walking across rocks, sand, roads, grass all summer in bare feet, the bottoms of my feet were like leather. I remember when I came back to the smoke in the winter, the first few baths in hot water and I must have lost about 1/4" of skin off my feet. But when I was there I could walk across gravel and run across rocks. The harder you wear your skin the tougher it gets.
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Hey dude I'm into surfin' and pickin', I play the dobro.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

gundalf7;346140 said:
looks good dave, love the shadow, lol. I'm sure you will get there eventually as that looks like a good leg break over that distance it will probablly be your body just needing to adjust to the different distances. I know my bowling is going backwards at the moment as i've only practiced for an hour in the last 2 weeks and that was awful, so much worse than just 2 weeks before where I was back at my best.
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I suppose you're up to your neck with studies? Do you find it difficult to make time?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;346200 said:
Hey dude I'm into surfin' and pickin', I play the dobro.
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Guitar playing you're several thousand leagues in front of me Macca! I'd never even heard of a Dobro and had to look it up! Is it a Gibson Dobro?

Surfing though, I'm better at that than I am at Guitar playing! How far from the coast are you? I seem to remember you saying that you were near Dee Why or was that Peter Philpott or someone else? You a long boarder or a short board rider?

Sorry this is going off topic! I keep having internet issues as well and keep having to turn off and on again.

have a look at this - click on the local photo's link http://magicseaweed.com/Sennen-Gwenvor-Surf-Report/4/ this is where I go every year, but I spent to whole summers back in the 80's with a bunch of Aussies getting pretty good at it. One of them was from Dee Why.

Ignore that link you're probably better off looking for Sennen or Gwenva using wannasurf.com if you're so inclined. You goofy or regular?
 
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