Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I think I'd feel the same Macca, I even feel like I'm being a bit up-front with Jenner asking if my son can go on one of his spin coaching sessions as I'd have thought that this was intended for kids via an invite to their clubs or something?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've got a game Sunday Grays & Chadwell CC and the weather's shaping up pretty nicely with a prediction of 26 degrees and sunny all day. My lads have a game as well in the morning 9.30 - till it finishes which should be around 12 leaving me an hour to get them home and get to my match. I had a bowl tonight - about 8 overs worth and the elbow/arm was playing up. What I think I'll do is take pain killers before the match and see how it goes and then see what the aftermath is from bowling. If it is obviously bad I'll retire from the bowling and then not bowl anything for a full week and see how that works out and if that doesn't work I'll then have to stop for a fortnight and so on. So it looks as though across the season this year I may only get 3 maybe 4 games? The bowling line up for my team if you look at the link is interesting again -

Samwell - Chinaman
McLellan - Leg Spinner
Shojahl - Off-spinner RH
Thompson (Me) - Leg Spinner
Simmons - Off-spinner LH

And only one fast bowler as far as I can make out although some of the other blokes are new and perhaps one of them is a fast?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Sunday will be busy for you, too bad about the injury. It should be on the mend after 2 weeks shouldn't it be? You still have a couple of days for mending it further.

I agree about how easy it is to be accurate bowling pace as compared to legspin, it can be a temptation to turn into a seamer because of that, but I used to get smashed bowling seamers even though I was accurate enough, so I kept up with the legspin. My young bloke can only bowl legspin and it is impossible to get him to bowl seamers, which makes bowling a zooter or some other straight one so hard for him. This is what we are working on right now.

Mallett makes a point about accuracy in " Scarlet", which is the more you spin it the bigger the area that you can land the ball in to cause damage. He compares Kumble and Warne and says Kumble has a " dinner plate" sized area for him to land the ball whereas Warne had an area as big as a "dinner table" to land the ball and trouble the batsmen and this is due to the amount of spin each bowler generated.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;350103 said:
Dave you could give him a demonstration of Grimmetts " Mystery Ball" from plate 14. Terry Jenner told me that it would be impossible to bowl such a ball!
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The aussies putting pressure on the poms here. I think I would be petrified trying to bowl in front of him. Good that you have a budding young leg spinner though. Whatever I would bowl would be a mystery to Mr Jenner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I'm not too optimistic about the elbow/arm. I'll not bowl for the next couple of days and leave it till the morning of the game and throw a few at Ben and Joe's match when they're practicing beforehand. It seemed to go this evening bowling the Grimmett Flipper using all the fingers, but I'm not able at the moment to bowl the Flipper particularly well because of the uncontrollable swing I'm getting, so I'll just avoid the Flipper altogether for a while. There's more detail in my blog if you're interested - Wrist Spin Bowling: Medial Epicondylitis day 7 my older son had a good day today with his bowling and that's in the blog. Little Joe bought a wicket as well.

I've just finished 'taking wickets' and I'm gagging for more Grimmett stories, where did you read the stuff about his attitude to batting and all those stories about how he didn't get on that well with Bradman. Was that on-line or was that in another book?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;350102 said:
Well of course Warnie is half German so he might have some nazi blood flowing through him, that might explain some of his more teutonic behaviour, especially towards "the old enemy".
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Yes I had completely forgotten about his ancestry, might make some sense of his personality I guess.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The disappointing thing with this injury is that it's coincided with me getting the leg break and at last being able to bowl it and get it to spin well. But I think it's connected with the leg break action and it's the leg break that's causing the strain. That tied in with the fact that I was a ill a few weeks back and stopped doing all my training and arm/rotator cuff exercises and then suddenly started to bowl intensively.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;350523 said:
I've just finished 'taking wickets' and I'm gagging for more Grimmett stories, where did you read the stuff about his attitude to batting and all those stories about how he didn't get on that well with Bradman. Was that on-line or was that in another book?
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I notice the version you have is "Getting Wickets" and mine is called "Taking Wickets"? Maybe it was published under another title in England. They are the same book I think, I will have to check that out. He also wrote "Tricking the Batsman (1932)" and "Grimmett on Cricket"(1948). The 1948 book is the best but I have not read the 1932 book for ages, but I have tracked down a copy and should have it soon.

The Grimmett / Bradman clash is covered in most of the Bradman books but never from Grimmetts side of the story. Ashley Mallett in "Scarlet" covers it from both sides , which is probably the fairest thing to do.

The one story of Grimmett that all his former pupils have, is this; He tells them that they need to develop a well spun accurate legbreak before they worry too much about the variations .
Then he cuts up a 10 inch by 10 inch cardboard piece and places it on a good length, then Grimmett puts on a blinfold and comes in and bowls his first ball , a fast spinning leg-break, right on the piece of cardboard!
" That is what you need to be able to do" he tells them!

Now he was still doing this well into his 60's according to the recollections of some of the people he coached.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;350104 said:
I think I'd feel the same Macca, I even feel like I'm being a bit up-front with Jenner asking if my son can go on one of his spin coaching sessions as I'd have thought that this was intended for kids via an invite to their clubs or something?
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I presume if he gets remunerated he will not be too fussed.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

That's pretty amazing if he can do it again and again. When I learned the Flipper I did a load of experiments bowling with my eyes closed as I got extremely accurate and I think I used to hit a target that was circular and only had a 5" circumference, but I only hit it once every 5 or 6 balls. I'll see if I can find the blog entry.....

Here it is http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2007/05/6-days-to-go-bowling-blind-legspin.html Not quite a Grimmett but with my 2nd ball.........

I walk in spring and bowl and open my eyes to see it hit my target which is 5 yards in front of the stumps and then skid on to hit the middles stump! Unbelievable! I try again and again. With 16 balls I threw 2 wides, 4 Strikes and 10 really good balls that went down the channel perfectly - some of which hit the 4" target that I place on the grass as my length marker. It wasn't a fluke either as I threw another subsequent 4 lots of 16 and it was almost identical each 16 balls, hitting the stumps and going down the channel. Man was this a revelation!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;350104 said:
I think I'd feel the same Macca, I even feel like I'm being a bit up-front with Jenner asking if my son can go on one of his spin coaching sessions as I'd have thought that this was intended for kids via an invite to their clubs or something?
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I bet he answers you and gives you good advice. I could not believe he replied to my question so quickly and sincerely.
I suppose it is a bit different for me because he was a childhood hero of mine, but I love the guy, he might come across a bit gruff to some people it seems but he always strikes me as a big softy. And as I said before whenever my young bloke gets something like that Jenner action happenning in his bowling, I am happy.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What about the book 'Clarrie Grimmett (The Bradman of Spin)' by Ashley Mallett? do you know of this one? With regards the name of my book it's definitely 'Getting Wickets' and it's published in London in 1930. It's got the same illustrations that you've previously sent me by email.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;350103 said:
Dave you could give him a demonstration of Grimmetts " Mystery Ball" from plate 14. Terry Jenner told me that it would be impossible to bowl such a ball!
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Yeah how good would that be! We are talking about the Inward spinning flipper that comes out of the hand with Top Spin and breaks towards the Leg Side (Similar to a Wrong Un with more Top Spin)?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Mallett reckons that Grimmett at his peak would end his practise sessions by hitting a target 6 times in a row and he would not leave the nets till he did( no blinfold of course). Warne mentions in his autobiography bowling blindfold as a practise tool he employed at one stage.
Mallett says Grimmett batted blinfold as well to demonstrate how predictable a bowler was but Mallett said in one tv interview that he suspected Grimmett could actually see a fair bit even with the blinfold on, and it was a little bit of trickery by Grimmett.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;350111 said:
Yeah how good would that be! We are talking about the Inward spinning flipper that comes out of the hand with Top Spin and breaks towards the Leg Side (Similar to a Wrong Un with more Top Spin)?
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You get offspin coupled to the topspin as well with this delivery. That happens when I try it. It even happens with the flipper but with backspin
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just ordered that book, so that's something to look forward to, I'm guessing it's the same book that you've read but a different title again?

Was Mallett one of Grimmetts students then?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;350111 said:
Yeah how good would that be! We are talking about the Inward spinning flipper that comes out of the hand with Top Spin and breaks towards the Leg Side (Similar to a Wrong Un with more Top Spin)?
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Macca does grimmett says he would only get topspin or did he get some off spin too?
Gundalf seemed to bowl it quite well. Masked it very well
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;350604 said:
What about the book 'Clarrie Grimmett (The Bradman of Spin)' by Ashley Mallett? do you know of this one? With regards the name of my book it's definitely 'Getting Wickets' and it's published in London in 1930. It's got the same illustrations that you've previously sent me by email.
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"Scarlet" is the updated version of "The Bradman of Spin", where he brings up some things that are not mentioned in the first book about Bradman. "Scarlet" can also bring in some comparisons with Warne and some other stuff but they are basically very similar books.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo the elbow is holding out at the minute but I'm still taking it easy. I bowled today and bowled seam up for some of them, but there was a few reasons for doing so, one being that it doesn't use those muscles and tendons in the same way that the wrist spin does. To be honest with the Jenner thing it does look as though it's slap bang in the middle of our surfing holiday.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;350112 said:
You get offspin coupled to the topspin as well with this delivery. That happens when I try it. It even happens with the flipper but with backspin
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My flippers tend to break like little Leg breaks but with the skid rather than the bounce. But the mystery ball has a definite off break attribute. But the one I'd love to show him is the wrong wrong un AKA The Gipper. With a little practice I know I can get this down the wicket and get it to break to the Offside. Weirdly though not in the same way as I used to, but this may be the case that the break is being offset by the effort to get the length.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The only fault with both books is Mallett gets the history of the flipper slightly wrong and most people use his version as their main reference.

Grimmett himself in " Grimmett on Cricket" also dismisses the story of how he clicked his left hand fingers to disguise his flipper, he says he did it for his own amusement and that of the non striker but he says there was no way the batsman on strike could concentrate enough to hear the finger click, yet it is still a widely held belief that Grimmet snapped his left fingers to disguise his flipper, and is mentioned as fact in most of the online stuff , but it is not quite true. People use Malletts books to reference that story as well.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;350111 said:
Yeah how good would that be! We are talking about the Inward spinning flipper that comes out of the hand with Top Spin and breaks towards the Leg Side (Similar to a Wrong Un with more Top Spin)?
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That would do, but as soon as you mention "mystery ball" he would yell "security!" The cops would whisk you away and ask you questions about some tosser called "macca", probably best not to mention it.
Reading that article on Mac Gill, it looks like he is the bloke I should have asked as he studied the Grimmett books. I have got his email address but I cant be bothered any more and magilla strikes me as a prickly type of character and unless the question was about wine he wouldn't even reply.
 
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I posted some footage of Grimmett bowling earlier,The 7.30 Report - ABC Sir Ron Brierley had a dvd of Grimmetts bowling produced. There is not a great deal of him at his peak but the first thing you notice is how small he was, enormous energy in everthing he does, incredible fielding off his own bowling, batsman tied down and restricted to the straight drive as his only safe shot.

You have to watch closely to get the bit where he is bowling in between his home movies ,the extended interview with Mallett is there as well, and footage of Grimmett bowling in his old age. It is tv quality so you have to watch your usage I suppose.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

That's how he comes across to me sitting here 13,000 miles away! As for Warnie being a Deutchlander that doesn't surprise me at all as he's so direct and blunt. I've got a German aunt (Married my Mum's brother) and she is such a classic lady, she tells it like it is, she doesn't mince her words at all, but I like her because of it, but she rubs everyone else up the wrong way, they just don't get it and I reckon there's a lot in the Aussie character that's similar to the Germans.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;350113 said:
Macca does grimmett says he would only get topspin or did he get some off spin too?
Gundalf seemed to bowl it quite well. Masked it very well
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No he doesn't mention it specifically but he does say how hard it is to bowl and the seam must leave perfectly positioned so it does not break. It only really does its trick by going straight on otherwise it does not gain the pace off the wicket Grimmett wanted, but those slightly off balls cant be too bad can they? Grimmett wanted complete control though and that ,besides the fact he was working on at least three ways of bowling the thumb and second finger spin, was why he waited twelve years to unleash them.
Gundalf might be the best bowler of it going around , we have not found another yet and, as I said ,Jenner wrote to me that it cant be done!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

He sure is round arm. Like a discus thrower. Mor round arm than warne. I also suspect he spinned it much less. Interesting the clip when he was old with those thick glasses. I am very round arm very much like him. Might not change to more vertical after seeing that. Wished I could have half his accuracy though. Nite , nite
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Go Gundalf! Cricket immortality awaits you - all you need to do is get along to one of these sessions and await your chance and then unleash the impossible. It may mean that in a few years time when Jenner may write a book on the subject....

And then there was this session in Leeds, when out of nowhere a young bloke bowled a ball that I've only ever seen written about in a book 80 years old that was discredited for being impossibe. The ball was Grimmetts Over-spinning flipper and was bowled by a young man calling himself Gundalf.......
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

lol that would be a first. I don't know if i'd have the balls to bowl any variations in front of someone like jenner. I may consider enquiring about the coaching session as it really would be a great oppurtunity.

thankfully my shoulder has healed really quickly there is just a slight ache now, had a bowl in the nets of 15 mins yesterday at about half speed and was somewhere between 3/4 and full at times during an hour practice today.

I'm off to edgbaston tomorrow to see england in the odi, hopefully I can see swann bowling well as he is at least a spinner as there aren't any leggies in the odi setup for either team( though surrey's chris schofield should have been at least for the 20-20 world cup).
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The footage of Grimmett is also remarkable in that it shows how fast a Grimmett over could be. An 8 ball over in under 2 minutes, the batsmen has no time to gather himself, Grimmett is way down the pitch fielding off his bowling then an instant later he is at the top of his run-up.

Wally Hammond said facing Grimmett was the most nerve wracking thing he had to do in cricket it gave him sweats and nightmares!

Some times his captain and fast bowlers tried to slow his over rate down but the good captains knew it was part of his stategy.

Batsmen were more predictable in those days in that they followed correct technique to such an extent that Grimmett knew if he pitched on a certain line or length the batsman was likely to play a certain shot, whereas these days blokes like Kevin Pieterson or Phill Hughes are so unorthodox as to be unpredictable.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I was reading an account of Mc Gains horror test debut, I only saw the " highlights" on tv. The author said it was not only the worst test debut of all time but also the worst test bowling performance of all time, he must have the stats to back him up.
Anyway he reckons that Mc Gain was not making any pace off the pitch and also at one stage Ponting got him to bowl into the wind so the batsmen could not hit the ball so far back over his head! I have heard that before, but only as a joke. This article also went into how extensive his shoulder rebuild was. Unlucky, because he was bowling really good a couple of years ago, but he might not get another chance.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;350613 said:
I'm a bit lost - what is this link is it pay as you go Television on your computer?
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No it is free, the links are there, it is used up a lot of broadband when I checked it all out though.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Was this bloke your best spin option?

Macca I've been reading through 'Getting Wickets' and just read the bit about Medium pace bowling and how Grimmett reckons that Medium pacers should learn how to bowl the wrong un. It was interesting to read that Grimmett considers that the wrong un being bowled out of the back of the hand at Medium pace speed is a far easier and effective delivery and comes natural. My experience with the wrong un kind of supports his observations. I went from a weak leg break to a good wrong un really easily and my wrong un includes a much faster ball that turns quite well. Hence my problems when I tried to recover the Leg Break after bowling 2 years of wrong uns. The Leg break coming out of the front of the hand not only feels wholly un-natural but perhaps is un-natural to some extent?

I've noted that some of the kids at G&C that bowl seam up, can readily turn to bowling half decent leg breaks and this may be because of their own release is uses the palm facing the batsman through the release of the ball. So if they're shown how to cock the wrist and then simply flick it from cocked to straight at the point of relase with the 2 up 2 down wrist spin grip many of them can bowl a Leg Break. What do you reckon to my hypothesis?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

wow he is really round arm, sadspinner is right its doubtful he was a really big spinner as you can see with his accuracy, interesting to see what he said to ashley mallett
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

As far as legspin he was but he only had a brief window before the next crop comes along. I dont know who they are , NSW has some good young legspinners but I dont know much about the state of spin bowling but by the sounds of it they must be worried because they are holding a spin summit later in the year.
 
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