Wrist Spin Bowling
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sadspinner
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Here is one of clarrie again at about 1 minute 10. his arm when he releases the ball is level or lower than his shoulder. Definitely not vertical. What do you think Macca, as you said it is vertical. I find it difficult to understand if this shows him bowling/releasing the ball when vertical. Seeing his action do you still rate him highly? After all it is results and not style that counts isn't it. Macca have you ever seen anyone at top level bowl with such a low arm . It is nearly underarm.Interesting to hear any one elses analysis of his bowling eg lack of verticality of the front hand, no excessive burst of energy while bowling, little pivot, no very obvious wrist flick. I am looking forward to what everyone thinks of the different parts of his bowling action.
Has anyone tried this extreme round arm action, and what were your observations. Thank you.http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=74609
Here is one of clarrie again at about 1 minute 10. his arm when he releases the ball is level or lower than his shoulder. Definitely not vertical. What do you think Macca, as you said it is vertical. I find it difficult to understand if this shows him bowling/releasing the ball when vertical. Seeing his action do you still rate him highly? After all it is results and not style that counts isn't it. Macca have you ever seen anyone at top level bowl with such a low arm . It is nearly underarm.Interesting to hear any one elses analysis of his bowling eg lack of verticality of the front hand, no excessive burst of energy while bowling, little pivot, no very obvious wrist flick. I am looking forward to what everyone thinks of the different parts of his bowling action.
Has anyone tried this extreme round arm action, and what were your observations. Thank you.http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=74609
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
In that clip Grimmett is just rolling his arm over , or rather, round. He was aware, as an amateur film maker himself, of the ability of others to analyse his bowling from motion pictures, especially from nearer than the boundary. Much the same when he was bowling in the nets.
The clips of his test bowling show him mostly not much more than roundarm but sometimes relatively vertical at release and he used this to his advantage, he said he didn't mind the batsman thinking he was too roundarm, and maybe could not flight the ball. Grimmett did maintain he was not as roundarm as people thought, but it is hard to imagine being any more roundarm than what he was.
Lots of people say he walked a bit like like Groucho Marx. At delivery his knee bends his front leg collapses, making it hard for him to drive up and over his left leg. He does not use his left arm like the other great spinners. It was a completely unique method in lots of ways. McCool was roundarm, more than McGill, who was considered fairly roundarm.
The most important thing was how he got his arm, wrist and fingers working in that order. He got the ball to absolutely fizz with spin. Umpires and nonstrikers could hear the ball buzz like a bee when he released it. A similar noise was made by both O' Rielly and Warne.
That is what amazes me about Grimmett, he looks like a pie chucker from the lower grades yet he is still the fastest bowler to reach 200 hundred test wickets and will always be the first to have got there.
sadspinner;351575 said:
In that clip Grimmett is just rolling his arm over , or rather, round. He was aware, as an amateur film maker himself, of the ability of others to analyse his bowling from motion pictures, especially from nearer than the boundary. Much the same when he was bowling in the nets.
The clips of his test bowling show him mostly not much more than roundarm but sometimes relatively vertical at release and he used this to his advantage, he said he didn't mind the batsman thinking he was too roundarm, and maybe could not flight the ball. Grimmett did maintain he was not as roundarm as people thought, but it is hard to imagine being any more roundarm than what he was.
Lots of people say he walked a bit like like Groucho Marx. At delivery his knee bends his front leg collapses, making it hard for him to drive up and over his left leg. He does not use his left arm like the other great spinners. It was a completely unique method in lots of ways. McCool was roundarm, more than McGill, who was considered fairly roundarm.
The most important thing was how he got his arm, wrist and fingers working in that order. He got the ball to absolutely fizz with spin. Umpires and nonstrikers could hear the ball buzz like a bee when he released it. A similar noise was made by both O' Rielly and Warne.
That is what amazes me about Grimmett, he looks like a pie chucker from the lower grades yet he is still the fastest bowler to reach 200 hundred test wickets and will always be the first to have got there.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I eventually sussed it out. How classic is that! Yes he amazingly round armed - Lasith Malinga round armed!
I eventually sussed it out. How classic is that! Yes he amazingly round armed - Lasith Malinga round armed!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I'm about a 3rd of the way through Malletts book on Grimmett and have read the description of the ball humming as it flew through the air which I find incredible. I was going to ask has anyone else experienced this at all - I certainly haven't.
With regards his action and in a way I'm loathed to say this but the girl that was in the team we played last Sunday bowled almost in the exact way as depicted in this footage and she apparently took 3 wickets the week before in her 3 overs! It is a very odd bowling action which as Macca has said wouldn't look amiss at club match and have everyone s******ing in the pavillion at 'their pie chucker'.
Saddo I think you should stop digging out film of Grimmett and just leave the images of him to our imagination as we read about him and view his stats!!!!
I'm about a 3rd of the way through Malletts book on Grimmett and have read the description of the ball humming as it flew through the air which I find incredible. I was going to ask has anyone else experienced this at all - I certainly haven't.
With regards his action and in a way I'm loathed to say this but the girl that was in the team we played last Sunday bowled almost in the exact way as depicted in this footage and she apparently took 3 wickets the week before in her 3 overs! It is a very odd bowling action which as Macca has said wouldn't look amiss at club match and have everyone s******ing in the pavillion at 'their pie chucker'.
Saddo I think you should stop digging out film of Grimmett and just leave the images of him to our imagination as we read about him and view his stats!!!!
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
A bit like Mc Gill or Mc Cool , pretty roundarm but when they release it they have got vertical. That style of bowling was very common with old blokes when I was young, and they must have been influenced by Grimmett, like my young bloke copies Warne.
sadspinner;350612 said:
A bit like Mc Gill or Mc Cool , pretty roundarm but when they release it they have got vertical. That style of bowling was very common with old blokes when I was young, and they must have been influenced by Grimmett, like my young bloke copies Warne.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
How weird is that! The forum wont let me use a word that's used to describe underhand laughing at people behind their backs that rhymes with a derogatory word used by rascists!
On the subject of my arm it looks like I should stop bowling for at least a couple of months and allow it to repair itself. I'm going to take Macca's advice and get to a Dr and get it looked at properly and see what he says, but reading about it tonight it does sound like I should stop bowling and even avoid things like turning keys in locks and turning door knobs etc.
How weird is that! The forum wont let me use a word that's used to describe underhand laughing at people behind their backs that rhymes with a derogatory word used by rascists!
On the subject of my arm it looks like I should stop bowling for at least a couple of months and allow it to repair itself. I'm going to take Macca's advice and get to a Dr and get it looked at properly and see what he says, but reading about it tonight it does sound like I should stop bowling and even avoid things like turning keys in locks and turning door knobs etc.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
My teams captain bowls like that, I'll time him this weekend and see if he beat Grimmetts 2 minutes!
macca;350614 said:
My teams captain bowls like that, I'll time him this weekend and see if he beat Grimmetts 2 minutes!
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I was fascinated with the action as when I had tried to bowl the big leg break with a bit of backspin (the bowl towards yourself) , the only way I could do it was with an action like his without ever having seen him before. I find that bowling in this way I get more side spin than more overarm, but never having seen anyone bowl like that I thought it was all wrong. MacGill is round arm but he is closer to warne as regards his arm than grimmett.
Yetsrday I had half an hour of practise, it turned MUCH more even though it was on concrete which i gather is more responsive to turn than grass wickets, and also it travelled much faster than my stock delivery which is mainly topspin with some sidespin, it was also fuller than my topspinner which Macca swears is better. I can vouch for the last statement as yesterday seeing rashid bowl, when ever he was fractionally short the dutchmen rocked on the back foot and cut him with ease.
Back to grimmett, I was let down initially on seeing his action, but eventually noted how rhythmic his delivery was.
Funnily enough on the same site there were no videos of Philpott or Jenner, possibly as these were more recent and possibly they never toured the UK. I am sure Macca can fill our knowledge gap here.
As regards O'Reilly he seems to be a medium or possibly medium fast bowler from what I could see.
There was also a small clip of Iverson, which after having read the biography of, I am very sympathetic to.
So do not worry guys no more videos from me unless it is something earth shattering, but I thought we had been discussing grimmett for so long and had no real idea what his action was like. I had thought that no clips were on the net, and was happy to have found them and shared them. If a website on leg spin is being constructed, having access/reference to these clips should be a precious addition that enhance the quality of the site in my opinion.On the other hand they may deflate the mystery/aura around the past greats as we may imagine that they did something out of the ordinary compared to modern day bowlers. I understand daves point that we like to have heroes the way we imagine them, and sometimes reality jarrs with what our fantasy suggests.
someblokecalleddave;351618 said:
I was fascinated with the action as when I had tried to bowl the big leg break with a bit of backspin (the bowl towards yourself) , the only way I could do it was with an action like his without ever having seen him before. I find that bowling in this way I get more side spin than more overarm, but never having seen anyone bowl like that I thought it was all wrong. MacGill is round arm but he is closer to warne as regards his arm than grimmett.
Yetsrday I had half an hour of practise, it turned MUCH more even though it was on concrete which i gather is more responsive to turn than grass wickets, and also it travelled much faster than my stock delivery which is mainly topspin with some sidespin, it was also fuller than my topspinner which Macca swears is better. I can vouch for the last statement as yesterday seeing rashid bowl, when ever he was fractionally short the dutchmen rocked on the back foot and cut him with ease.
Back to grimmett, I was let down initially on seeing his action, but eventually noted how rhythmic his delivery was.
Funnily enough on the same site there were no videos of Philpott or Jenner, possibly as these were more recent and possibly they never toured the UK. I am sure Macca can fill our knowledge gap here.
As regards O'Reilly he seems to be a medium or possibly medium fast bowler from what I could see.
There was also a small clip of Iverson, which after having read the biography of, I am very sympathetic to.
So do not worry guys no more videos from me unless it is something earth shattering, but I thought we had been discussing grimmett for so long and had no real idea what his action was like. I had thought that no clips were on the net, and was happy to have found them and shared them. If a website on leg spin is being constructed, having access/reference to these clips should be a precious addition that enhance the quality of the site in my opinion.On the other hand they may deflate the mystery/aura around the past greats as we may imagine that they did something out of the ordinary compared to modern day bowlers. I understand daves point that we like to have heroes the way we imagine them, and sometimes reality jarrs with what our fantasy suggests.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Not if they hit him for 6 and lose the ball!
someblokecalleddave;350619 said:
Not if they hit him for 6 and lose the ball!
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I doubt the batsmen were in the mood to laugh though. Quite funny the way you describe his action. You are right though his results are unparallelled, and we like the fact that a nerdish looking person, with a small frame could terrorise the giants of his time by the artistry of his bowling.
macca;351617 said:
I doubt the batsmen were in the mood to laugh though. Quite funny the way you describe his action. You are right though his results are unparallelled, and we like the fact that a nerdish looking person, with a small frame could terrorise the giants of his time by the artistry of his bowling.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Dave that breeze you bowled into " diaganol wind in direct opposition to my spinning leg break " sounds pretty good to me, was it coming from cover or more from third man?, did you notice any drift ? Any spin blown off the ball by the wind should be compensated by an increase in drift. Starting off with a maiden is a big confidence boost.
Dave that breeze you bowled into " diaganol wind in direct opposition to my spinning leg break " sounds pretty good to me, was it coming from cover or more from third man?, did you notice any drift ? Any spin blown off the ball by the wind should be compensated by an increase in drift. Starting off with a maiden is a big confidence boost.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Good work to find those clips Saddo. I had not seen those on the net till you found them.
As a roundarm bowler you should get inspiration from his action. Considering his results it is a wonder more people have not tried to copy it, though I do remember lots of old guys bowling similar to that including my dad when I was a kid.
It is like the Jeff Thompson slinging action, I always wonder why more people did not copy that action as well. Too much coaching perhaps?
Good work to find those clips Saddo. I had not seen those on the net till you found them.
As a roundarm bowler you should get inspiration from his action. Considering his results it is a wonder more people have not tried to copy it, though I do remember lots of old guys bowling similar to that including my dad when I was a kid.
It is like the Jeff Thompson slinging action, I always wonder why more people did not copy that action as well. Too much coaching perhaps?
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yep that's the one more 3rd man than cover, I thought of you when I realised my mate was bowling with the wind behind him - I thought a-ha this is a 'Macca approved' situation! I didn't notice any drift but I wasn't able to rip it at all so I don't think there was a lot of spin but it was turning off the crease very nicely, so the wicket this year looks as though it's very conducive to getting the ball to turn. I just need to get my arm back in shape so I can rip it and bowl wrong uns. I've got it in one of those tight elastic supports at the minute primarily to simply reinforce the fact that I need to rest it. I'm determined not to bowl now till next Sunday to rest it, it's going to be hard though as I love bowling so much and I'm really determined to make a lot of progress this year. So this spell was fantastic, I'm just about to post up the score sheet on my blog so you can see how well I did compared to all the others. You're right bowling the maiden was a good start. I just wished I'd kept to bowling it straight rather than trying to turn one in from the off-side.
macca;351141 said:
Yep that's the one more 3rd man than cover, I thought of you when I realised my mate was bowling with the wind behind him - I thought a-ha this is a 'Macca approved' situation! I didn't notice any drift but I wasn't able to rip it at all so I don't think there was a lot of spin but it was turning off the crease very nicely, so the wicket this year looks as though it's very conducive to getting the ball to turn. I just need to get my arm back in shape so I can rip it and bowl wrong uns. I've got it in one of those tight elastic supports at the minute primarily to simply reinforce the fact that I need to rest it. I'm determined not to bowl now till next Sunday to rest it, it's going to be hard though as I love bowling so much and I'm really determined to make a lot of progress this year. So this spell was fantastic, I'm just about to post up the score sheet on my blog so you can see how well I did compared to all the others. You're right bowling the maiden was a good start. I just wished I'd kept to bowling it straight rather than trying to turn one in from the off-side.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Here in the UK there's a cricket history documentary series being shown over a series of weeks leading up to the Ashes, I'm hoping that there'll be some Grimmett stuff on there. If there is I'll let you know. 1 down so far next installment tomorrow night.
Here in the UK there's a cricket history documentary series being shown over a series of weeks leading up to the Ashes, I'm hoping that there'll be some Grimmett stuff on there. If there is I'll let you know. 1 down so far next installment tomorrow night.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Found a small clip here. I think Grimmett is somewhere in it. Also chuck fleetwood smith. Not much in it but interesting just the same as it is rare. 1930's Henshall, Mr: Australian Cricketers Visit Ceylon, Naples, Switzerland and Practise at Lords, clip 3 - australian screen
Found a small clip here. I think Grimmett is somewhere in it. Also chuck fleetwood smith. Not much in it but interesting just the same as it is rare. 1930's Henshall, Mr: Australian Cricketers Visit Ceylon, Naples, Switzerland and Practise at Lords, clip 3 - australian screen
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Sorry, could not resist my compulsion. Arthur Mailey at about 1 minute 55 bowling. I am out of here before someone gets his shotgun. British Pathe - THE FIGHT FOR THE ASHES aka THE AUSTRALIANS ARE HERE!
Sorry, could not resist my compulsion. Arthur Mailey at about 1 minute 55 bowling. I am out of here before someone gets his shotgun. British Pathe - THE FIGHT FOR THE ASHES aka THE AUSTRALIANS ARE HERE!
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
And here o'reilly talking about bradman The Bradman Era, clip 2 - australian screen
And here o'reilly talking about bradman The Bradman Era, clip 2 - australian screen
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I know you all want more. Here is Tich Freeman, the greatest pom leg break bowler after dave. British Pathe - CAMERA INTERVIEWS - TICH FREEMAN
I know you all want more. Here is Tich Freeman, the greatest pom leg break bowler after dave. British Pathe - CAMERA INTERVIEWS - TICH FREEMAN
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
And one ball bowled by o'reilly. Had never seen him before. Hope I am not boring you. Australasian Gazette ? Historic Cricket, clip 1 - australian screen
And one ball bowled by o'reilly. Had never seen him before. Hope I am not boring you. Australasian Gazette ? Historic Cricket, clip 1 - australian screen
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Anyone know what delivery a "clipper" is ? V.V Kumar talks about it in this article. The Hindu : Sport / Cricket : Old tricks, new names
Anyone know what delivery a "clipper" is ? V.V Kumar talks about it in this article. The Hindu : Sport / Cricket : Old tricks, new names
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
No keep it up I can't believe you have time and patience to go looking for and finding this stuff! I've just had my 'Clarrie Grimmett the Don Bradman of spin' by mallet come in the post via that on-line bookshop you informed me about. It's a good book so far.
No keep it up I can't believe you have time and patience to go looking for and finding this stuff! I've just had my 'Clarrie Grimmett the Don Bradman of spin' by mallet come in the post via that on-line bookshop you informed me about. It's a good book so far.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Hello people not much from me at the minute as my internet at home is screwed but I played Sunday with the bad arm which held out and I took 4 for 27 off 7 overs including 2 wicket maidens! Best ever performance to date. See the blog (which still needs editing) Wrist Spin Bowling
Hello people not much from me at the minute as my internet at home is screwed but I played Sunday with the bad arm which held out and I took 4 for 27 off 7 overs including 2 wicket maidens! Best ever performance to date. See the blog (which still needs editing) Wrist Spin Bowling
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
This looks like a beauty. Do you think you could link it to your web site? Or is copyright a problem? It looks like the best footage to date. He looks like he is really throwing a discus. Can you note any obvious wrist flick? Not very obvious to me. His action is very similar to mine, that is the action not the result. I thought I was the only round arm freak. British Pathe - CLARRIE GRIMMETT
This looks like a beauty. Do you think you could link it to your web site? Or is copyright a problem? It looks like the best footage to date. He looks like he is really throwing a discus. Can you note any obvious wrist flick? Not very obvious to me. His action is very similar to mine, that is the action not the result. I thought I was the only round arm freak. British Pathe - CLARRIE GRIMMETT
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
You must have swallowed that Grimmett book. Your cumulative figures for the season are looking great so far. It sounds like you need to appeal a bit more convincingly for those lbw's mate.
In club cricket ,after he retired from first class cricket, Grimmett had the umpires on side so much he would sometimes nominate to the umpire what ball he was about to bowl and the method of dismissal it would produce and on at least one occassion the umpire himself went up and roared an appeal and Grimmett put his finger up and turned to the umpire said " That, mr umpire is out, plumb lbw!". I would not advise any one else to try that though.
someblokecalleddave;351972 said:
You must have swallowed that Grimmett book. Your cumulative figures for the season are looking great so far. It sounds like you need to appeal a bit more convincingly for those lbw's mate.
In club cricket ,after he retired from first class cricket, Grimmett had the umpires on side so much he would sometimes nominate to the umpire what ball he was about to bowl and the method of dismissal it would produce and on at least one occassion the umpire himself went up and roared an appeal and Grimmett put his finger up and turned to the umpire said " That, mr umpire is out, plumb lbw!". I would not advise any one else to try that though.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
And here clarrie and o'reilly bowling to england in a test match. British Pathe - FIRST TEST MATCH
Grimmetts front arm is not very vertical as well, very unorthodox in these days. Would have been coached and ruined today if they had seen his action.
And here our hero is bowling again at the beginning of the clip. http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=61609
And here clarrie and o'reilly bowling to england in a test match. British Pathe - FIRST TEST MATCH
Grimmetts front arm is not very vertical as well, very unorthodox in these days. Would have been coached and ruined today if they had seen his action.
And here our hero is bowling again at the beginning of the clip. http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=61609
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Very impressive, well done. Well you are still at the prime of your life, Grimmett had missed the ashes at 48 years despite having had a good year in his domestic season, the ashes are round the corner and england needs a surprise weapon... beware australia.
Joking apart, you deserve it as you practice so hard. Interesting if you could tell us where you pitched the ball, and which length especially for the wickets. I know you have it in your blog but I have a short attention span.
someblokecalleddave;351972 said:
Very impressive, well done. Well you are still at the prime of your life, Grimmett had missed the ashes at 48 years despite having had a good year in his domestic season, the ashes are round the corner and england needs a surprise weapon... beware australia.
Joking apart, you deserve it as you practice so hard. Interesting if you could tell us where you pitched the ball, and which length especially for the wickets. I know you have it in your blog but I have a short attention span.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Yeah I'll link it to my blog - that's classic but I gotta say it looks wrong. He brings his arm round but tilts his body in order that the arm comes over more vertical, it's a very weird action. O'reilly has got something of a Harbijan Singh about him or rather the other way round. It looks like club cricket because as you say it looks very unorthodox in many ways.
sadspinner;351312 said:
Yeah I'll link it to my blog - that's classic but I gotta say it looks wrong. He brings his arm round but tilts his body in order that the arm comes over more vertical, it's a very weird action. O'reilly has got something of a Harbijan Singh about him or rather the other way round. It looks like club cricket because as you say it looks very unorthodox in many ways.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Never heard of this, I had thought it was a misprint for the flipper.
macca;351890 said:
Never heard of this, I had thought it was a misprint for the flipper.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Here is benaud bowling at the beginning of the clip. That may be enough for today. By the way well done with your bowling. Very miserly with the runs. Must have created pressure, which helps the bowler on the other side. Next week all set for a wicket so. Good luck. British Pathe - Selected Originals - LEEDS TEST MATCH RESULT
Here is benaud bowling at the beginning of the clip. That may be enough for today. By the way well done with your bowling. Very miserly with the runs. Must have created pressure, which helps the bowler on the other side. Next week all set for a wicket so. Good luck. British Pathe - Selected Originals - LEEDS TEST MATCH RESULT
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I thought that too. I also thought it may be a name someone had given to the " reverse flipper" for want of another term to describe Grimmetts actual mystery ball, which is the overspinner. I thought it might also be a term used in India for a certain delivery?
I am getting somewhere in my tracking down the true history of the flipper and Cec "the ox" Pepper is turning out to be a key link in the story. Grimmett showed him how to bowl the finger clicking deliveries and Pepper delivered his flipper as an overspinner as well, just like Grimmett describes his mystery ball and not the Dooland /Benaud/Warne backspinner that Grimmett also invented but hardly used.
Cec Pepper was another one who stood up to Bradman and payed the price and the incident that caused his falling out with Bradman was started by Pepper bowling a series of " mystery balls " at Bradman and having his lbw appeals turned down in a famous ex servicemans game after the war. Whittington in the slips described them as topspinners and Keith Miller in the grandstand thought they were flippers, but they were probably both right as they were topspinning flippers.
Bradman also credited Pepper with having a well disguised off-break, which I reckon is Peppers' overspinning flipper gone slightly wrong, which as we have seen ourselves, does produce an off break.
There is still a lot I have to research to fill in the gaps of the story of the flipper, but I have found lots of incredible stuff and ,when I have finished, it is going to make for an amazing tale and a lot more complicated then the accepted history. Also the fact the story involves Bradman and Warne should make it of interest to a wider audience than just legspinners. Lots more to come.
sadspinner;352238 said:
I thought that too. I also thought it may be a name someone had given to the " reverse flipper" for want of another term to describe Grimmetts actual mystery ball, which is the overspinner. I thought it might also be a term used in India for a certain delivery?
I am getting somewhere in my tracking down the true history of the flipper and Cec "the ox" Pepper is turning out to be a key link in the story. Grimmett showed him how to bowl the finger clicking deliveries and Pepper delivered his flipper as an overspinner as well, just like Grimmett describes his mystery ball and not the Dooland /Benaud/Warne backspinner that Grimmett also invented but hardly used.
Cec Pepper was another one who stood up to Bradman and payed the price and the incident that caused his falling out with Bradman was started by Pepper bowling a series of " mystery balls " at Bradman and having his lbw appeals turned down in a famous ex servicemans game after the war. Whittington in the slips described them as topspinners and Keith Miller in the grandstand thought they were flippers, but they were probably both right as they were topspinning flippers.
Bradman also credited Pepper with having a well disguised off-break, which I reckon is Peppers' overspinning flipper gone slightly wrong, which as we have seen ourselves, does produce an off break.
There is still a lot I have to research to fill in the gaps of the story of the flipper, but I have found lots of incredible stuff and ,when I have finished, it is going to make for an amazing tale and a lot more complicated then the accepted history. Also the fact the story involves Bradman and Warne should make it of interest to a wider audience than just legspinners. Lots more to come.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
I had a bowl tonight with my lads, only taking it easy and my elbow has flared up again. Reading about the condition it sounds as though if I keep bowling the condition will become chronic. I'll not bowl anymore now till Sunday and see what happens in the game. I'm pretty certain it will flare up and if it does I reckon that'll be it then I'll not bowl for for the rest of June and possibly July till I go on holiday and then see how it is when I'm surfing becuase there's a similar if not same condition that comes about from surfing.
I had a bowl tonight with my lads, only taking it easy and my elbow has flared up again. Reading about the condition it sounds as though if I keep bowling the condition will become chronic. I'll not bowl anymore now till Sunday and see what happens in the game. I'm pretty certain it will flare up and if it does I reckon that'll be it then I'll not bowl for for the rest of June and possibly July till I go on holiday and then see how it is when I'm surfing becuase there's a similar if not same condition that comes about from surfing.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
This is another beauty of a video of clarrie bowling, with comments from bradman. Maybe another for the leg spin website dave?
http://www.cricketcrowd.com/Play_Video-23-812-0.html
As Macca said he bowled very full.
This is another beauty of a video of clarrie bowling, with comments from bradman. Maybe another for the leg spin website dave?
http://www.cricketcrowd.com/Play_Video-23-812-0.html
As Macca said he bowled very full.
macca
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Thanks for those links Saddo, every player shown on both sides in that series is a legend, that was a golden age for cricket that's for sure.
At indoor cricket my young bloke has forged his first working relationship with what I would describe as a proper wicket keeper. This is the first specialist keeper he has had behind the stumps to his bowling and even though he is only 12 the kid knows proper technique. Last week they combined for 3 caught behind and 1 stumped off my sons bowling. It helps my son is a slow bowler but the ball spins fast off the edge so the kid has to be good to catch it and hold on to it, but he makes it look easy.
His age group start to specialise next outdoor season so hopefully he can look forward to a good keeper and first slip then as well.
Thanks for those links Saddo, every player shown on both sides in that series is a legend, that was a golden age for cricket that's for sure.
At indoor cricket my young bloke has forged his first working relationship with what I would describe as a proper wicket keeper. This is the first specialist keeper he has had behind the stumps to his bowling and even though he is only 12 the kid knows proper technique. Last week they combined for 3 caught behind and 1 stumped off my sons bowling. It helps my son is a slow bowler but the ball spins fast off the edge so the kid has to be good to catch it and hold on to it, but he makes it look easy.
His age group start to specialise next outdoor season so hopefully he can look forward to a good keeper and first slip then as well.
sadspinner
Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
This is getting more interesting and intriguing. Give us more Macca
macca;352256 said:
This is getting more interesting and intriguing. Give us more Macca
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
With regards Saddo's query about the line and length. I aim to get the ball on the Off-stump if I'm bowling these new leg breaks and the same with the Top-spinners. The Flipper kind of middle stump and the only Googly went wide but then turned in very nicely. I was surprised myself as to how accurate I was! With regards length I'm crap at judging length I'd guess I was aiming to get the ball into a muddy patch that was about a yard in front of the popping crease. Anything shorter and they were going on to the back foot and hitting it for fours. All the leg side balls were dispatched with ease, so I gave up that option fairly quickly.
With regards Saddo's query about the line and length. I aim to get the ball on the Off-stump if I'm bowling these new leg breaks and the same with the Top-spinners. The Flipper kind of middle stump and the only Googly went wide but then turned in very nicely. I was surprised myself as to how accurate I was! With regards length I'm crap at judging length I'd guess I was aiming to get the ball into a muddy patch that was about a yard in front of the popping crease. Anything shorter and they were going on to the back foot and hitting it for fours. All the leg side balls were dispatched with ease, so I gave up that option fairly quickly.
gundalf7
Active Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
yeah dave you probablly want to take it easy, i've only just started bowling at 100% again in the last few days after my shoulder injury, its amazing how quick it is to revert to bowling well with a bit of practice, in fact i'm bowling better than before, lol. Just wish i had a chance to play a match though
yeah dave you probablly want to take it easy, i've only just started bowling at 100% again in the last few days after my shoulder injury, its amazing how quick it is to revert to bowling well with a bit of practice, in fact i'm bowling better than before, lol. Just wish i had a chance to play a match though
I.V.A.R
New Member
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling
Hello to everyone
I bought Peter Philpott's book and have started the under arm activity. I want to move on to the round arm but how round arm should it be? below or above the perpendicular?
I just keep bowling top spin when I try it round arm or over arm and am keen to get it right from the start as I've changed to Leg Break at the start of this year.
Hello to everyone
I bought Peter Philpott's book and have started the under arm activity. I want to move on to the round arm but how round arm should it be? below or above the perpendicular?
I just keep bowling top spin when I try it round arm or over arm and am keen to get it right from the start as I've changed to Leg Break at the start of this year.
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