Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354838 said:
No wonder legspin bowling is on hard times if people think that going for a touch over 4 an over is a problem if you are consistently beating the top and middle order batsmen and picking up wickets as well. Hate to have you as my captain. If the rest of the attack had that strike rate they could all go for 4 an over and still win most games.
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If it was a one-day comp then fair enough, four an over is okay but for longer formats of the game that is probably one run over what it should be.

someblokecalleddave;354860 said:
Cheers mate it appears that you've deciphered my figures into proper 'Cricket stats'? I take it the economy is the runs made against my bowling which I am aware of is possibly a bit high, but I reckon I may be able to address that a bit over the next few games. This is 40 over or timed matches again I'm not sure what the rules are with the timed matches.
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Economy is runs conceded per over. Average is the average amount of runs conceded per wicket and strike rate is the amount of balls bowled in order to take a wicket. Your average is 13.71 so you are taking a wicket just a shade under every 2.2 overs.

shrek;354844 said:
Based on that experience, could you guess what speed your legbreak and/or the gipper(The one on youtube) are bowled at. Basically, I'm trying to estimate my speed. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a speed gun as we are a college team scrapping together for survival :)
I thought that club bowlers bowl much slower than the international ones and I speared in a few fast and flat legbreaks the other day in practice and the keeper guessed they would be -55-60 mph.

I'm also surprised that your wrongun is faster. My wronguns tend to be much slower than the legbreak, as they are more flighted. Is it better to speed it up a little ?
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No way, there's not a chance you're bowling 60mph. That's 100 km/hr. No spinner can bowl at that pace and get the ball to turn a decent amount.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

It looks like I've been promoted, I'm playing in one of the league teams this Saturday albeit the 4th XI. It's with a bunch of blokes I've never even heard of let alone played alongside and as yet I can't figure out who the captain is. My mate 'The Wizard's' in the team so that'll be good to go head to head with him. So tonight for the first time in weeks I had a proper work out with the ball on my private wicket. Temporarily I've lost the Biggun but my standard Leg Breaks still there and it's nice and accurate. I bowled a handful of 'Flickers' and they came good and looked like they had swing but this time they were spinning away to the off-side like leg-breaks so there's obviously some subtle variation in the way that I'm releasing the ball. The other thing with the 'Flicker' is that as expected there did seem to be some dramatic dip, but how much it rushes on I'm not sure, but the good thing is that I was bowling them with a great deal of ease and they were accurate with regards the line and length - it looks like a good ball. My bog standard Flippers were swinging ludicrusly and I was having to aim them 2' - 2.5' wide of the off stump in order that they swung in and hit the stumps, but this isn't something I've been able to do in a real game with a newish ball and I suspect it has something to do also with the atmospherics as well? As for the Wrong Un - My God was they coming out good. I only bowled a couple big loopy flight with vicious dip but the coming in across the stumps in an amazing manner. So all in all a very promising practice session and the arm has held up okay with no soreness and that was a session where I must have bowled the equivalent of about 21 - 23 overs?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave, you know in your edition of Malletts bio of Grimmett does he give any references at the back of the book or any where else to the source of any quotes?
Does he mention Grimmett first bowling his flipper in Sydney 1n 1940? He got two wickets in a row with his first two flippers he ever bowled. Does Mallett give any reference for the stories source in your edition?
Good luck next game.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;355009 said:
Dave, you know in your edition of Malletts bio of Grimmett does he give any references at the back of the book or any where else to the source of any quotes?
Does he mention Grimmett first bowling his flipper in Sydney 1n 1940? He got two wickets in a row with his first two flippers he ever bowled. Does Mallett give any reference for the stories source in your edition?
Good luck next game.
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Yeah there's a shed load of references at the beginning of the book but no details as to what came from where. I could if you want photograph the page and send the photo to you in an email if you want?

I'll have a quick look through the book and see if I can find the Flipper story you refer to, but he never references the individual sources as far as I can see.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just found a reference to the Wrong Wrong Un (The Gipper) and Mallett says that it wasn't until he was 76 that he was working on this which kind of supports my supposition that back in 1930 all the Flipper variations including the Bog Standard Flipper were still in there embryonic stages because back then in 'Taking Wickets' Grimmett says as I've quoted he could only get the ball so far up the wicket. Mallett says that when Grimmett was 76 and still working on the Wrong Wrong Un possibly 40 years or so later he could still only bowl it 10 yards up the wicket.

There's also a mention on the same page that O'reilly bowled a wrong wrong un in 1934 but he didn't know how it happened and seemingly never repeated it and there is certainly no evidence that it was produced using the Flipper technique to impart the spin? Who's read about O'reilly - did he have the Flipper?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

On page 153 in the tactics chapter Mallett quoting Grimmett explains that Grimmett just after WW1 used to use the Iverson technique with a tennis ball and was intrigued at the potential to spin the ball using the middle finger and thumb. It then says that it was the fact that once he then tried to apply the technique to a 5.5oz cricket ball he couldn't "However, it was the Iverson type of delivery which caused Clarrie to develop his famous Flipper". UNfortunately there's no reference to the date so it looks like we're stuck with 1929 - 1930 for the birth of the Flipper?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Here we go..... Page 156 (Tactics) "The great opener Sid Barnes made it universally known that he could easily pick Grimmetts 'Mystery Ball' the Flipper.
'For 12 years I practiced this ball before I bowled it in a match. Let that be a lesson to a youngster! It proved to be my greatest ball. I called it my Flipper'."

Grimmett then refutes that he ever bowled it at Barnes in 1938 saying that the 1st time he bowled it was in 1940 (Benaud was there aged 10).

So that would suggest 1928?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;355013 said:
Here we go..... Page 156 (Tactics) "The great opener Sid Barnes made it universally known that he could easily pick Grimmetts 'Mystery Ball' the Flipper.
'For 12 years I practiced this ball before I bowled it in a match. Let that be a lesson to a youngster! It proved to be my greatest ball. I called it my Flipper'."

Grimmett then refutes that he ever bowled it at Barnes in 1938 saying that the 1st time he bowled it was in 1940 (Benaud was there aged 10).

So that would suggest 1928?
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Grimmett only seems to value the backspinning flipper after Benauds success with it.And then tries to set the record straight in later life because Grimmett thought Benaud was taking all the credit for the flipper. Which is why I want to source the date of his flipper recollections.
Does Mallett mention the tapes Vic Grimmett made with his dad in 1977? If they are the source of the recollections that would explain a lot.Thanks for the help.
 
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No there's no mention of the interview on tape as far as I recall. But you've hit on a point with regards whether Grimmett is talking about the Flipper as a Top-Spinning ball or the usual back-spinning Flipper. If he describes the dismissal in that match where he first unleashes the Flipper and then accompanies that with the description of it being his greatest ball that would suggest that it's his much favoured Top-spinning Flipper the one Bradman calls 'The Flicker' and not the bog standard back-spinning Flipper a la' Warne, Jenner, Benuad et al? Which then kind of makes sense from the point of view that Benaud tries to claim the Flipper as his own and not Grimmetts as Grimmett sounds as though he may have discarded the back-spinner because perhaps he bowled the Slider instead? I know Philpott much prefers the slider and says that both Grimmett and Benaud bowled the Slider and also says that Benaud used his slider to the point where at times it was virtually his stock ball.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;355016 said:
No there's no mention of the interview on tape as far as I recall. But you've hit on a point with regards whether Grimmett is talking about the Flipper as a Top-Spinning ball or the usual back-spinning Flipper. If he describes the dismissal in that match where he first unleashes the Flipper and then accompanies that with the description of it being his greatest ball that would suggest that it's his much favoured Top-spinning Flipper the one Bradman calls 'The Flicker' and not the bog standard back-spinning Flipper a la' Warne, Jenner, Benuad et al? Which then kind of makes sense from the point of view that Benaud tries to claim the Flipper as his own and not Grimmetts as Grimmett sounds as though he may have discarded the back-spinner because perhaps he bowled the Slider instead? I know Philpott much prefers the slider and says that both Grimmett and Benaud bowled the Slider and also says that Benaud used his slider to the point where at times it was virtually his stock ball.
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Grimmett doesn't seem to have bowled the backspinner slider like the one jenner demos. He new of its existence but never proscribes it or puts it in with the other leg break loop like philpott does for instance. He was dead set against backspin except as a very rare variation which is why he never fully realised the potential of his flipper until pepper dooland and benaud. He had another backspinner similar to some of Warnes outside of the hand sliders.
But in his eighties he had to come out and remind everyone that the flipper was his invention and not Benauds.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Well lads, i'm going to receive a copy of 'the art of wrist spin bowling' in about 2 weeks so i hope i can learn a bit more from it.

I was at the nets wednesday and bowled to both left and right handers. I struggled at first and after everyone left, i stayed back and set a target and bowled at it and things started to come right. I spun the ball big and i'm looking forward to going back today if it doesn't rain. Hopefully what i learnt from the target practice, i can use it and bowl much better. I took a wider run up and it helped.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

You definitely will if you read the 'Eight stages of spin' all the way through from start to finish. I think we generally all agree on here that there's one really key point that Philpott makes with regards spinning the ball back into your body from an outstreched arm in front of. You'll come across it in the 'Eight stages of spin'. I don't know how old you are Spin Wiz but don't expect the book to be exciting, loads of people on here have said that they can't get through the book because it is so 'Old Skool' but honestly if you just make sure you read that section from front to back and you take on board what Philpott says and combine that knowledge with all the key videos from Warne, Jenner and Michael Freedman/Beaus Casson on-line and put in loads of practice with your Leg Break you'll get there.

Finally what's your goal - what is it you aim to be able to do in the next 3 months?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

As long as a book is about Cricket, i will read it, no matter old school or what. I love cricket. I'm gonna be 20 soon and my goal over the next few months is to try and bowl more accurately. All i have left is pure 2020 games so i'll be variating a lot more and only will bowl quick if the boundaries are short, other than that, i'll be going for a bit of flight.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Go for it. The following post after this shows all the stats for my team (On my blog link) and if you look at it one of the blokes that is vying for best bowler is C. Sellars and he's 14 and flights the ball and is accurate.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

spin wiz;355111 said:
As long as a book is about Cricket, i will read it, no matter old school or what. I love cricket. I'm gonna be 20 soon and my goal over the next few months is to try and bowl more accurately. All i have left is pure 2020 games so i'll be variating a lot more and only will bowl quick if the boundaries are short, other than that, i'll be going for a bit of flight.
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One of the things that all of the great wrist spinners say relates to practicing. Philpott goes further than most in that he almost says that unless you're totally obsessed and willing to put almost every hour of your spare time into cricket specifically bowling you're wasting your time. Another thing that they all bang on about is how you practice and I have to say that I agree with this. When you practice you have to fully commit yourself to it and really focus on what you're doing. You have to do it with a real sense of purpose and set yourself goals. It's probably best if you do it on your own and that you're not disturbed so that you can focus 100%. As for accuracy practicing, I take it this will be using your stock ball (Leg Break)? If so use a target something relatively small and aim to get the ball on the target. I used to use a thin piece of hardboard that was 225mm wide and about 3.5M long and initially focussed on my line e.g. getting it on the piece of wood. As long as it was on that wood I didn't worry how far up the wood or down the wood it was just as long as the line was correct.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Apart from the amount of wickets taken across the season which is the next most significant figure amongst the stats?

Average
RPO
Strike Rate
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Legspin requires more practise than all the other crafts in cricket. Philpott and Grimmett were both bowlerholics and child prodigys that set themselves the task of trying to bowl a couple of hours every day of their lives.
That is the goal but of course even they could not of achieve it . Both Philpott and Grimmett had to take days off for all the same reasons we would. Sickness, exams, holidays etc.
Grimmett gave up cricket for 12 months when he was in his teens because his apprentiship as a signwriter took so much practise out of work hours. But if you can set that as your goal, 2 hours every day you will give yourself the chance, provided you have the talent, to suceed at the higher levels.
They always call legspin bowling an "art" and all the arts require lots of practise. Every day if possible.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave , do you muck around with the ball (flipper)that you get by rotating the wrist 90 degrees so the back of your hand faces you and your palm points down the wicket at the batsman.
This ball is an off break but looks similar to the legbreak from the batsmans pont of view. Grimmett describes it well in his books. You know the one.
Well that ball is the one Grimmett and Pepper both tried perfect as they saw it as probably the best way to use the "flipper" at first.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I reckon that's the most difficult one from my experience. And you're probably right because it looks like the palm of the hand coming over straight as with the leg-break. It's relatively easy over shorter distances and it breaks like an offie, of all the Flipper variations I think this is the one I've looked at the least partly because my Wrong Un is pretty solid. But on a more positive note all of the these variations I seem to have been able to pick up pretty quickly because unlike Grimmett I've got the fore-knowledge that they are possible and all they require is some committment and practice. That and the fact that when I roll em out it's against a club side and not the Poms!!!

This one doesn't have a name does it?
 
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