Wrist Spin Bowling

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Something that I am noticing with my Leg breaks is that of the 3 approaches to bowling it that I have -

1. 3rd finger straight hand approach.
2. Cocked wrist flick approach.
3. Big flick inwards (The Biggun)

Because of my arm (Medial Epincondylitis) I'm only using 1 & 2. Technique 1 is getting me the wickets and I'm throwing up the odd wrist flick jobbie. But this delivery is odd in that it's very inconsistent - it turns big when it does turn with very little effort, but 50% of the time it simply goes straight and I can't figure out the nuances of the action which cause it to turn or not turn which is a bit frustrating because if I could do it 90% of the time or more I'd go down the leg-side and turn it in on the stumps giving myself more options. I kind of like the idea of a slightly shorter ball that comes in across the front of the body or behind it to remove the off-stump bail. I suppose I'll have to follow my own mantra and practice it more!!!

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Something that I am noticing with my Leg breaks is that of the 3 approaches to bowling it that I have -

1. 3rd finger straight hand approach.
2. Cocked wrist flick approach.
3. Big flick inwards (The Biggun)

Because of my arm (Medial Epincondylitis) I'm only using 1 & 2. Technique 1 is getting me the wickets and I'm throwing up the odd wrist flick jobbie. But this delivery is odd in that it's very inconsistent - it turns big when it does turn with very little effort, but 50% of the time it simply goes straight and I can't figure out the nuances of the action which cause it to turn or not turn which is a bit frustrating because if I could do it 90% of the time or more I'd go down the leg-side and turn it in on the stumps giving myself more options. I kind of like the idea of a slightly shorter ball that comes in across the front of the body or behind it to remove the off-stump bail. I suppose I'll have to follow my own mantra and practice it more!!!

I know what you mean. You bowl one on middle stump and it deviates two stumps further out than off stump, then try it outside leg stump and it goes straight. The only explanation/s I have is/are:
1. The ones that turn land on the seam, while those that do not, land on the rest of the ball or
2. The one that does not turn is the backspinner/slider, while the one that turns is the big legbreak.

And Dave, do they call any ball outside leg stump as a wide, as that is what they do in first class cricket. Are they more lenient at club level?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Thankfully they're a lot more lenient. I thought I'd have been given a few wides down leg-side but looking at my figures it looks like they were kind to me. But I've got to admit in my kids game Sunday morning our umpires were being amazingly harsh to the oppo's bowling when they were umpiring behind the stumps whereas their umpire was a lot fairer it seemed!

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Shrek have a look at these - YouTube - Someblokecalleddave Leg Break development 3 they're out of date as I said.

Thanks Dave,

But I'd already seen these videos, and these balls looked a little too full to me (without the benefit of the batting crease ofcourse). I'm sure over the season you would've improved greatly to figure out the best length to bowl to batsmen, so I was hoping to catch that.

Especially, as a batsmen, I tend to wait for the one bad ball that all bowlers(my average tends to be two-three short or full balls every two overs) invariably provide in each over. So, it is a question of consistency. You mention in your blog about the line of the balls, but not much has been said about the length. So, I just wanted to watch an over or two continuously.

It would also be a great help if you have an idea of the speed you are bowling at. I remember reading earlier in the discussion here that club bowlers tend to bowl at 40 mph or so, I would like to take a look at the trajectory if possible because I'm unable to figure out the best bowling speed.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Thanks Dave,

But I'd already seen these videos, and these balls looked a little too full to me (without the benefit of the batting crease ofcourse). I'm sure over the season you would've improved greatly to figure out the best length to bowl to batsmen, so I was hoping to catch that.

Especially, as a batsmen, I tend to wait for the one bad ball that all bowlers(my average tends to be two-three short or full balls every two overs) invariably provide in each over. So, it is a question of consistency. You mention in your blog about the line of the balls, but not much has been said about the length. So, I just wanted to watch an over or two continuously.

It would also be a great help if you have an idea of the speed you are bowling at. I remember reading earlier in the discussion here that club bowlers tend to bowl at 40 mph or so, I would like to take a look at the trajectory if possible because I'm unable to figure out the best bowling speed.

I'm a learner Shrek so I couldn't say what the best tactics are, but my captain advocates pitching the ball up right under their noses, this might be because at the moment I'm not getting a lot of turn off the wicket and I have been much slower in the past. I think it depends on what you're bowling as well and how far down the wicket the batsman is coming. A tactic I've been shown by an Indian bloke was to put the ball on the length that approximates the batsman stretching his arm and bat out. Which is about 4 or 5 yards in front of the stumps. I vary the length anything from 2 yards to 5 yards all depending what ball I'm bowling and how the batsman is responding. As for speed the fastest I've been recorded was 47 Mph with wrong uns and 42 mph with flippers. But my flippers are quicker now because I bowl a different variation of the flipper which is quicker.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

This is it so far. I didn't get picked at all at the start of the season as I don't think they'd been reading my blog and therefore weren't aware that I'd recovered from the Googly syndrome and recovered my Leg-Break.

There's obviously a right way of doing this but hopefully you'll make sense of this -

0 for 17 off 7 overs (2 x maidens)
4 for 27 off 7 overs (1 x Double wicket maiden)
4 for 32 off 5 overs
4 for 31 off 4 overs
2 for 23 off 9 overs (2 x maidens)

I've got to get my head around all the stats they use to measure how good you are. My Captain on paper looks far better than me as he plays 3 maybe 4 times a week and has played every game so far this season. But I think there's some validity in looking at the Strike rates and Runs Per over and compare them?

Game 1: 7-2-17-0
Game 2: 7-1-27-4
Game 3: 5-0-32-4
Game 4: 4-0-31-4
Game 5: 9-2-23-2


Games: 5
Wickets: 14
Overs: 32
Runs: 130
Average: 9.29
Strike Rate: 13.71
Econ: 4.06



Fairly impressive stats if you ask me. Average is superb, strike rate is fantastic. Only thing that's letting you down is your economy. What type of games are you playing? Two-day games or only one-dayers? If you're only playing one-day games then your economy isn't too bad but you'd still want it below four.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'm a learner Shrek so I couldn't say what the best tactics are, but my captain advocates pitching the ball up right under their noses, this might be because at the moment I'm not getting a lot of turn off the wicket and I have been much slower in the past. I think it depends on what you're bowling as well and how far down the wicket the batsman is coming. A tactic I've been shown by an Indian bloke was to put the ball on the length that approximates the batsman stretching his arm and bat out. Which is about 4 or 5 yards in front of the stumps. I vary the length anything from 2 yards to 5 yards all depending what ball I'm bowling and how the batsman is responding. As for speed the fastest I've been recorded was 47 Mph with wrong uns and 42 mph with flippers. But my flippers are quicker now because I bowl a different variation of the flipper which is quicker.

They always say to aussie legspinners that as a rule you must pitch the ball up further and faster when bowling in England so it makes sense that you do pitch it up a fair bit.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Game 1: 7-2-17-0
Game 2: 7-1-27-4
Game 3: 5-0-32-4
Game 4: 4-0-31-4
Game 5: 9-2-23-2


Games: 5
Wickets: 14
Overs: 32
Runs: 130
Average: 9.29
Strike Rate: 13.71
Econ: 4.06



Fairly impressive stats if you ask me. Average is superb, strike rate is fantastic. Only thing that's letting you down is your economy. What type of games are you playing? Two-day games or only one-dayers? If you're only playing one-day games then your economy isn't too bad but you'd still want it below four.

No wonder legspin bowling is on hard times if people think that going for a touch over 4 an over is a problem if you are consistently beating the top and middle order batsmen and picking up wickets as well. Hate to have you as my captain. If the rest of the attack had that strike rate they could all go for 4 an over and still win most games.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

No wonder legspin bowling is on hard times if people think that going for a touch over 4 an over is a problem if you are consistently beating the top and middle order batsmen and picking up wickets as well. Hate to have you as my captain. If the rest of the attack had that strike rate they could all go for 4 an over and still win most games.

Heh, have to agree with you on that. It depends a lot on what is the role of the bowler. When Shoaib Akhtar came onto the international scene, Wasim wanted him to get 3-4 wickets and didnt mind him going for 50-55 runs every match (10 over spells ofcourse).

Most legspinners love to attack the batsmen and as a captain, I would love to have a bowler who returns these figures, I wouldnt care if he went for even 5 runs an over.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'm a learner Shrek so I couldn't say what the best tactics are, but my captain advocates pitching the ball up right under their noses, this might be because at the moment I'm not getting a lot of turn off the wicket and I have been much slower in the past. I think it depends on what you're bowling as well and how far down the wicket the batsman is coming. A tactic I've been shown by an Indian bloke was to put the ball on the length that approximates the batsman stretching his arm and bat out. Which is about 4 or 5 yards in front of the stumps. I vary the length anything from 2 yards to 5 yards all depending what ball I'm bowling and how the batsman is responding. As for speed the fastest I've been recorded was 47 Mph with wrong uns and 42 mph with flippers. But my flippers are quicker now because I bowl a different variation of the flipper which is quicker.

Based on that experience, could you guess what speed your legbreak and/or the gipper(The one on youtube) are bowled at. Basically, I'm trying to estimate my speed. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a speed gun as we are a college team scrapping together for survival
I thought that club bowlers bowl much slower than the international ones and I speared in a few fast and flat legbreaks the other day in practice and the keeper guessed they would be -55-60 mph.

I'm also surprised that your wrongun is faster. My wronguns tend to be much slower than the legbreak, as they are more flighted. Is it better to speed it up a little ?

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Based on that experience, could you guess what speed your legbreak and/or the gipper(The one on youtube) are bowled at. Basically, I'm trying to estimate my speed. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a speed gun as we are a college team scrapping together for survival
I thought that club bowlers bowl much slower than the international ones and I speared in a few fast and flat legbreaks the other day in practice and the keeper guessed they would be -55-60 mph.

I'm also surprised that your wrongun is faster. My wronguns tend to be much slower than the legbreak, as they are more flighted. Is it better to speed it up a little ?

Why are we men always obsessed with size and speed. Just wondering.

 

[shrek]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Why are we men always obsessed with size and speed. Just wondering.

It is about effectiveness. If in order to be a better bowler, I need to bowl faster/slower and is possible with my abilities, I should do that.

I've noticed that even at international cricket, good spinners bowl at 50-55 mph. Emulating them is the best way forward as I dont have a formal coach

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Game 1: 7-2-17-0
Game 2: 7-1-27-4
Game 3: 5-0-32-4
Game 4: 4-0-31-4
Game 5: 9-2-23-2


Games: 5
Wickets: 14
Overs: 32
Runs: 130
Average: 9.29
Strike Rate: 13.71
Econ: 4.06



Fairly impressive stats if you ask me. Average is superb, strike rate is fantastic. Only thing that's letting you down is your economy. What type of games are you playing? Two-day games or only one-dayers? If you're only playing one-day games then your economy isn't too bad but you'd still want it below four.

Cheers mate it appears that you've deciphered my figures into proper 'Cricket stats'? I take it the economy is the runs made against my bowling which I am aware of is possibly a bit high, but I reckon I may be able to address that a bit over the next few games. This is 40 over or timed matches again I'm not sure what the rules are with the timed matches.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Based on that experience, could you guess what speed your legbreak and/or the gipper(The one on youtube) are bowled at. Basically, I'm trying to estimate my speed. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a speed gun as we are a college team scrapping together for survival
I thought that club bowlers bowl much slower than the international ones and I speared in a few fast and flat legbreaks the other day in practice and the keeper guessed they would be -55-60 mph.

I'm also surprised that your wrongun is faster. My wronguns tend to be much slower than the legbreak, as they are more flighted. Is it better to speed it up a little ?

That was months ago and that's really slow - I reckon it's got to be somewhere in the 35mph zone. Surely a Leg break at that speed (55-60mph) would have all the turn taken out of it? It's beyond me how Warne bowls at that 55mph and gets it to turn, but then again those balls that you see on youtube might coming out of the rough with speed and have loads of dip? Who knows. At club level though spinning it up a relatively slow speeds gets wickets. There's a 14 year old in our team that a few weeks ago was virtually bowling teams out on his own and in one match caused a collapse of less than 50 taking 6 wickets for 25 or something ridiculous and he bowls loopy and slow but with loads of spin and good accuracy.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

No wonder legspin bowling is on hard times if people think that going for a touch over 4 an over is a problem if you are consistently beating the top and middle order batsmen and picking up wickets as well. Hate to have you as my captain. If the rest of the attack had that strike rate they could all go for 4 an over and still win most games.

I take it the strike rate is the amount of runs conceded between wickets so if everyone bowled with that same strike rate the score would be 137 all out? In which case I think all of the Sunday teams would be happy to chase that.

 

[breeno]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

This is it so far. I didn't get picked at all at the start of the season as I don't think they'd been reading my blog and therefore weren't aware that I'd recovered from the Googly syndrome and recovered my Leg-Break.

There's obviously a right way of doing this but hopefully you'll make sense of this -

0 for 17 off 7 overs (2 x maidens)
4 for 27 off 7 overs (1 x Double wicket maiden)
4 for 32 off 5 overs
4 for 31 off 4 overs
2 for 23 off 9 overs (2 x maidens)

I've got to get my head around all the stats they use to measure how good you are. My Captain on paper looks far better than me as he plays 3 maybe 4 times a week and has played every game so far this season. But I think there's some validity in looking at the Strike rates and Runs Per over and compare them?

Awesome stats mate, really good. I won my seniors teams bowling average with an average of 10.40, so you're definitely well on your way to a trophy, and it seems they have shown some confidence in you after your bags of four.

Keep up the good work, and keep us updated, I'm intrigued to see your progress.

Also, how did you get your wickets mainly?

 

[breeno]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I take it the strike rate is the amount of runs conceded between wickets so if everyone bowled with that same strike rate the score would be 137 all out? In which case I think all of the Sunday teams would be happy to chase that.

Nope. Strike rate is how many balls it takes you to get a wicket. Average is the amount of runs between wickets.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Awesome stats mate, really good. I won my seniors teams bowling average with an average of 10.40, so you're definitely well on your way to a trophy, and it seems they have shown some confidence in you after your bags of four.

Keep up the good work, and keep us updated, I'm intrigued to see your progress.

Also, how did you get your wickets mainly?

Breeno, the secret just seems to be able to put the ball where I want it and have confidence in what I'm doing and be able to bowl a Leg Break and some of the variations. Another bloke who started playing a few weeks before me bowls Leg Breaks and really does turn the ball massively and bowls a lot faster than me but.... His accuracy is very poor and consequently bowls loads of wides and then he gets the yips and it just goes downhill from there.

I'd like to say that they were all round the back of the Legs a la Warne but with a ropey arm at the minute I can't actually bowl a ball that turns big and I rely on bowling a decent leg break on the off-stump that turns away from the bat and then mix that up with Flippers, Wrong Uns and Top Spinners - a variation about once every 5 balls or so. Most have been catches which to be honest have been balls that have strayed on to the Leg Stump or gone wide, so I'm noticing that if you bowl legside it tempts the bats into having a go and if the fielders are up to it as they have been I've been getting wickets that way. I'm only just now coming to realise that I have to go through a process of putting the balls in different areas to ascertain where their weaknesses and strengths are and then work around how they play around what you bowl. Once you've figured out where their strengths and weaknesses lay you bowl accordingly. Normally I've found that when they see that you've come on as a spinner they think that it's time to unleash some 4's and 6's and I'm probably helped by the fact that I can produced a good range of variations and I bowl my line and length and not just lob it up hoping that it'll land somewhere near where I want it. So I have been successful of late. Having said that - I'm not 100% sure that it's not just luck. If you want to follow my progress have a look at my blog Wrist Spin Bowling I'm currently updating last Sunday's match account.

 

[breeno]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Good stuff Dave.

I'm hoping to work on my leggies, as we don't have a spinner at our club, it may give me the opportunity to get 5+ more overs than I normally would get.

When I'm on song, even though I practice spin probably, an hour every month during the season, I have the best junior bat at our club, and captain of the our regions rep side in trouble, as I've always had an uncanny knack of accuracy, and being able to bowl variations, without practice.

I was once bowling pace, and he smashed me everywhere. I bowled 12 balls of spin and got him LBW and caught behind at least 7 times. The trouble is getting the consistency, which I suppose, if I practice, I will get.

I will be watching with a keen eye on how you progress Dave. If any other guys wanna post their stats up, let me know.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Breeno in order to get where I am today it's taken me 3 years - admittedly working from a point where I'd never bowled a straight ball let alone one that turns. Up till I hurt my arm (Medial epicondylitis) I was practicing several hours a week. Last year on occasions I was practicing 4 hours a day in 2 x 2 hour stints during weekends and holidays. So I have put the time in to get where I am and I constantly analyse what I'm doing and what I need to do next to improve and I'm willing to take advice off anyone who has an idea that sounds as though it makes sense.

Being on this forum and the one that preceded it has been really useful and instrumental in my development but the hours on the field or in playgrounds or anywhere that's flat with a bucket of balls is where it all comes together.