Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354438 said:
macca;354425 said:
Why then would the English finger spinners do well but the Aussie Leg Spinners not so?
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Like when Laker got 19 wickets and was unplayable but Benaud did no good on the same track. The legspinners bounce helps the batsman on the slower dusty offspinners wicket sometimes. But a pro high class finger spinner can udjust a lot better. But he has to be very good. In fact history shows he has to be great.
I have not seen Swann bowl yet. You never know he may be one of those great bowlers in the making, in which case the Australians are in for some trouble. The current crop dont play spin that well. Ponting probably is the only one who can get down the track the old fashioned way.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354729 said:
Shrek have a look at these - YouTube - Someblokecalleddave Leg Break development 3 they're out of date as I said.
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Thanks Dave,

But I'd already seen these videos, and these balls looked a little too full to me (without the benefit of the batting crease ofcourse). I'm sure over the season you would've improved greatly to figure out the best length to bowl to batsmen, so I was hoping to catch that.

Especially, as a batsmen, I tend to wait for the one bad ball that all bowlers(my average tends to be two-three short or full balls every two overs) invariably provide in each over. So, it is a question of consistency. You mention in your blog about the line of the balls, but not much has been said about the length. So, I just wanted to watch an over or two continuously.

It would also be a great help if you have an idea of the speed you are bowling at. I remember reading earlier in the discussion here that club bowlers tend to bowl at 40 mph or so, I would like to take a look at the trajectory if possible because I'm unable to figure out the best bowling speed.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354457 said:
someblokecalleddave;354438 said:
Like when Laker got 19 wickets and was unplayable but Benaud did no good on the same track. The legspinners bounce helps the batsman on the slower dusty offspinners wicket sometimes. But a pro high class finger spinner can udjust a lot better. But he has to be very good. In fact history shows he has to be great.
I have not seen Swann bowl yet. You never know he may be one of those great bowlers in the making, in which case the Australians are in for some trouble. The current crop dont play spin that well. Ponting probably is the only one who can get down the track the old fashioned way.
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I may be mistaken but in the past I have the impression that wet/uncovered wickets were the norm, which helped Laker.

Additionally, I think Ponting got out to Harbhajan on a regular basis both in Australia and India, if my memory serves me right.

As regards the effectiveness of offspinners, the only 2 I can think of that are successful are Murali(unorthodox), and Harbhajan. The next one is Ajmal for Pakistan but he has played only a few games . The thing they have in common is the Doosra, which Swann does not have. I rate Swann as a good bowler, but without a Doosra, I think he will struggle to get too many wickets. Having said that besides Ponting, I think much of the top order are left handers, so that may be to his advantage. I think they will opt for Panesar over Rashid if they go for two spinners. Throwing Rashid in the deep end, might scar him, just as happened to McGain in S Africa.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;354754 said:
Thanks Dave,

But I'd already seen these videos, and these balls looked a little too full to me (without the benefit of the batting crease ofcourse). I'm sure over the season you would've improved greatly to figure out the best length to bowl to batsmen, so I was hoping to catch that.

Especially, as a batsmen, I tend to wait for the one bad ball that all bowlers(my average tends to be two-three short or full balls every two overs) invariably provide in each over. So, it is a question of consistency. You mention in your blog about the line of the balls, but not much has been said about the length. So, I just wanted to watch an over or two continuously.

It would also be a great help if you have an idea of the speed you are bowling at. I remember reading earlier in the discussion here that club bowlers tend to bowl at 40 mph or so, I would like to take a look at the trajectory if possible because I'm unable to figure out the best bowling speed.
Click to expand...

I'm a learner Shrek so I couldn't say what the best tactics are, but my captain advocates pitching the ball up right under their noses, this might be because at the moment I'm not getting a lot of turn off the wicket and I have been much slower in the past. I think it depends on what you're bowling as well and how far down the wicket the batsman is coming. A tactic I've been shown by an Indian bloke was to put the ball on the length that approximates the batsman stretching his arm and bat out. Which is about 4 or 5 yards in front of the stumps. I vary the length anything from 2 yards to 5 yards all depending what ball I'm bowling and how the batsman is responding. As for speed the fastest I've been recorded was 47 Mph with wrong uns and 42 mph with flippers. But my flippers are quicker now because I bowl a different variation of the flipper which is quicker.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;354460 said:
macca;354457 said:
I may be mistaken but in the past I have the impression that wet/uncovered wickets were the norm, which helped Laker.

QUOTE] Yes those wet wickets did help laker and underwood but only if the sun came out. but they went well on dusty ones too.
The one in 56 where laker got 19 wickets was an utter dustbowl that had not been watered for weeks and huge clouds of dust blew off it especially when swept with a broom as in the famous photo. I would like to see one of the tv commentators bounce a ball on this cardiff pitch on day one just to check the bounce. The test might only last three days.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354726 said:
This is it so far. I didn't get picked at all at the start of the season as I don't think they'd been reading my blog and therefore weren't aware that I'd recovered from the Googly syndrome and recovered my Leg-Break.

There's obviously a right way of doing this but hopefully you'll make sense of this -

0 for 17 off 7 overs (2 x maidens)
4 for 27 off 7 overs (1 x Double wicket maiden)
4 for 32 off 5 overs
4 for 31 off 4 overs
2 for 23 off 9 overs (2 x maidens)

I've got to get my head around all the stats they use to measure how good you are. My Captain on paper looks far better than me as he plays 3 maybe 4 times a week and has played every game so far this season. But I think there's some validity in looking at the Strike rates and Runs Per over and compare them?
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Game 1: 7-2-17-0
Game 2: 7-1-27-4
Game 3: 5-0-32-4
Game 4: 4-0-31-4
Game 5: 9-2-23-2


Games: 5
Wickets: 14
Overs: 32
Runs: 130
Average: 9.29
Strike Rate: 13.71
Econ: 4.06



Fairly impressive stats if you ask me. Average is superb, strike rate is fantastic. Only thing that's letting you down is your economy. What type of games are you playing? Two-day games or only one-dayers? If you're only playing one-day games then your economy isn't too bad but you'd still want it below four.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Another good day at the office. I got 9 overs today and went for 23 with 2 wickets and a 2 maidens. Quite a tricky game and I had a right battle with one bloke who lasted the 9 overs. The wicket was very damp and there'd been a lot of rain and the key aspect to that was that there wasn't a great deal of bounce to be had. I definitely have to work on my Leg Break more because yesterday I was getting it to turn more (But that maybe because the ground was dryer/harder)? Whereas today I couldn't produce a big turning Leg Break. I also noted that all the runs that were conceded were almost exclusively from balls that were put on Leg stump or bowled wide of leg-stump or Wrong Uns that turned and went wide of leg stump (Pitched on middle). So a definite learning curve today because this bloke just wasn't interested in anything that I tried to tempt him with unless it went Leg side and then most of the time he got it away. Very patient and cautious player, but it led to them losing in the end.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354812 said:
I'm a learner Shrek so I couldn't say what the best tactics are, but my captain advocates pitching the ball up right under their noses, this might be because at the moment I'm not getting a lot of turn off the wicket and I have been much slower in the past. I think it depends on what you're bowling as well and how far down the wicket the batsman is coming. A tactic I've been shown by an Indian bloke was to put the ball on the length that approximates the batsman stretching his arm and bat out. Which is about 4 or 5 yards in front of the stumps. I vary the length anything from 2 yards to 5 yards all depending what ball I'm bowling and how the batsman is responding. As for speed the fastest I've been recorded was 47 Mph with wrong uns and 42 mph with flippers. But my flippers are quicker now because I bowl a different variation of the flipper which is quicker.
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They always say to aussie legspinners that as a rule you must pitch the ball up further and faster when bowling in England so it makes sense that you do pitch it up a fair bit.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354523 said:
Another good day at the office. I got 9 overs today and went for 23 with 2 wickets and a 2 maidens. Quite a tricky game and I had a right battle with one bloke who lasted the 9 overs. The wicket was very damp and there'd been a lot of rain and the key aspect to that was that there wasn't a great deal of bounce to be had. I definitely have to work on my Leg Break more because yesterday I was getting it to turn more (But that maybe because the ground was dryer/harder)? Whereas today I couldn't produce a big turning Leg Break. I also noted that all the runs that were conceded were almost exclusively from balls that were put on Leg stump or bowled wide of leg-stump or Wrong Uns that turned and went wide of leg stump (Pitched on middle). So a definite learning curve today because this bloke just wasn't interested in anything that I tried to tempt him with unless it went Leg side and then most of the time he got it away. Very patient and cautious player, but it led to them losing in the end.
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Definately a pattern happening it has to be a lot more than a lucky streak. Keep it up.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ljp86;354835 said:
Game 1: 7-2-17-0
Game 2: 7-1-27-4
Game 3: 5-0-32-4
Game 4: 4-0-31-4
Game 5: 9-2-23-2


Games: 5
Wickets: 14
Overs: 32
Runs: 130
Average: 9.29
Strike Rate: 13.71
Econ: 4.06



Fairly impressive stats if you ask me. Average is superb, strike rate is fantastic. Only thing that's letting you down is your economy. What type of games are you playing? Two-day games or only one-dayers? If you're only playing one-day games then your economy isn't too bad but you'd still want it below four.
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No wonder legspin bowling is on hard times if people think that going for a touch over 4 an over is a problem if you are consistently beating the top and middle order batsmen and picking up wickets as well. Hate to have you as my captain. If the rest of the attack had that strike rate they could all go for 4 an over and still win most games.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354838 said:
No wonder legspin bowling is on hard times if people think that going for a touch over 4 an over is a problem if you are consistently beating the top and middle order batsmen and picking up wickets as well. Hate to have you as my captain. If the rest of the attack had that strike rate they could all go for 4 an over and still win most games.
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Heh, have to agree with you on that. It depends a lot on what is the role of the bowler. When Shoaib Akhtar came onto the international scene, Wasim wanted him to get 3-4 wickets and didnt mind him going for 50-55 runs every match (10 over spells ofcourse).

Most legspinners love to attack the batsmen and as a captain, I would love to have a bowler who returns these figures, I wouldnt care if he went for even 5 runs an over.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354812 said:
I'm a learner Shrek so I couldn't say what the best tactics are, but my captain advocates pitching the ball up right under their noses, this might be because at the moment I'm not getting a lot of turn off the wicket and I have been much slower in the past. I think it depends on what you're bowling as well and how far down the wicket the batsman is coming. A tactic I've been shown by an Indian bloke was to put the ball on the length that approximates the batsman stretching his arm and bat out. Which is about 4 or 5 yards in front of the stumps. I vary the length anything from 2 yards to 5 yards all depending what ball I'm bowling and how the batsman is responding. As for speed the fastest I've been recorded was 47 Mph with wrong uns and 42 mph with flippers. But my flippers are quicker now because I bowl a different variation of the flipper which is quicker.
Click to expand...

Based on that experience, could you guess what speed your legbreak and/or the gipper(The one on youtube) are bowled at. Basically, I'm trying to estimate my speed. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a speed gun as we are a college team scrapping together for survival :)
I thought that club bowlers bowl much slower than the international ones and I speared in a few fast and flat legbreaks the other day in practice and the keeper guessed they would be -55-60 mph.

I'm also surprised that your wrongun is faster. My wronguns tend to be much slower than the legbreak, as they are more flighted. Is it better to speed it up a little ?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354523 said:
Another good day at the office. I got 9 overs today and went for 23 with 2 wickets and a 2 maidens. Quite a tricky game and I had a right battle with one bloke who lasted the 9 overs. The wicket was very damp and there'd been a lot of rain and the key aspect to that was that there wasn't a great deal of bounce to be had. I definitely have to work on my Leg Break more because yesterday I was getting it to turn more (But that maybe because the ground was dryer/harder)? Whereas today I couldn't produce a big turning Leg Break. I also noted that all the runs that were conceded were almost exclusively from balls that were put on Leg stump or bowled wide of leg-stump or Wrong Uns that turned and went wide of leg stump (Pitched on middle). So a definite learning curve today because this bloke just wasn't interested in anything that I tried to tempt him with unless it went Leg side and then most of the time he got it away. Very patient and cautious player, but it led to them losing in the end.
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Good going Dave,
Nice to know that you are doing well. Could you post a video of the length you bowl, with the stumps and batting crease? If you could shoot an over or two that would be even better.

We played a game this weekend, and I came across another legspinner. He didn't bowl any googlies but seemed to have a topspinner that bounced quite nicely. Whether he could bowl them at will is arguable as he didnt have very good control. We hammered all bowlers on their team but the legspinner got two wickets - both with short-ish deliveries that bounced more than the batsman had anticipated. Right hander caught at point topedging a pull, the other - a left hander caught at deep square leg top edging a pull. I pulled off 56*(39) and hit the legspinner for 4 boundaries with only 2 dot balls.
My strategy was simple - pick singles off the good deliveries, and wait for the 1 or 2 bad balls a leggie is bound to bowl in an over.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;354844 said:
Based on that experience, could you guess what speed your legbreak and/or the gipper(The one on youtube) are bowled at. Basically, I'm trying to estimate my speed. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a speed gun as we are a college team scrapping together for survival :)
I thought that club bowlers bowl much slower than the international ones and I speared in a few fast and flat legbreaks the other day in practice and the keeper guessed they would be -55-60 mph.

I'm also surprised that your wrongun is faster. My wronguns tend to be much slower than the legbreak, as they are more flighted. Is it better to speed it up a little ?
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Why are we men always obsessed with size and speed. Just wondering.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;354849 said:
Why are we men always obsessed with size and speed. Just wondering.
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It is about effectiveness. If in order to be a better bowler, I need to bowl faster/slower and is possible with my abilities, I should do that.

I've noticed that even at international cricket, good spinners bowl at 50-55 mph. Emulating them is the best way forward as I dont have a formal coach
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ljp86;354835 said:
Game 1: 7-2-17-0
Game 2: 7-1-27-4
Game 3: 5-0-32-4
Game 4: 4-0-31-4
Game 5: 9-2-23-2


Games: 5
Wickets: 14
Overs: 32
Runs: 130
Average: 9.29
Strike Rate: 13.71
Econ: 4.06



Fairly impressive stats if you ask me. Average is superb, strike rate is fantastic. Only thing that's letting you down is your economy. What type of games are you playing? Two-day games or only one-dayers? If you're only playing one-day games then your economy isn't too bad but you'd still want it below four.
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Cheers mate it appears that you've deciphered my figures into proper 'Cricket stats'? I take it the economy is the runs made against my bowling which I am aware of is possibly a bit high, but I reckon I may be able to address that a bit over the next few games. This is 40 over or timed matches again I'm not sure what the rules are with the timed matches.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;354844 said:
Based on that experience, could you guess what speed your legbreak and/or the gipper(The one on youtube) are bowled at. Basically, I'm trying to estimate my speed. Unfortunately, I don't have access to a speed gun as we are a college team scrapping together for survival :)
I thought that club bowlers bowl much slower than the international ones and I speared in a few fast and flat legbreaks the other day in practice and the keeper guessed they would be -55-60 mph.

I'm also surprised that your wrongun is faster. My wronguns tend to be much slower than the legbreak, as they are more flighted. Is it better to speed it up a little ?
Click to expand...

That was months ago and that's really slow - I reckon it's got to be somewhere in the 35mph zone. Surely a Leg break at that speed (55-60mph) would have all the turn taken out of it? It's beyond me how Warne bowls at that 55mph and gets it to turn, but then again those balls that you see on youtube might coming out of the rough with speed and have loads of dip? Who knows. At club level though spinning it up a relatively slow speeds gets wickets. There's a 14 year old in our team that a few weeks ago was virtually bowling teams out on his own and in one match caused a collapse of less than 50 taking 6 wickets for 25 or something ridiculous and he bowls loopy and slow but with loads of spin and good accuracy.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354722 said:
" spin up" properly and you wont be short.
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I spin up, actually too much but still find it impossible to bowl a yorker length or full toss. possibly he is bowling with too much topspin, or his run up does not have enough energy. On the other hand he may be young and not have the power yet. Just some ideas.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354838 said:
No wonder legspin bowling is on hard times if people think that going for a touch over 4 an over is a problem if you are consistently beating the top and middle order batsmen and picking up wickets as well. Hate to have you as my captain. If the rest of the attack had that strike rate they could all go for 4 an over and still win most games.
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I take it the strike rate is the amount of runs conceded between wickets so if everyone bowled with that same strike rate the score would be 137 all out? In which case I think all of the Sunday teams would be happy to chase that.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;354702 said:
Right hander caught at point topedging a pull, the other - a left hander caught at deep square leg top edging a pull.QUOTE]
Classic legspin dismissals. deep square leg and cover point are two of the key fielding positions for the legspinner.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354726 said:
This is it so far. I didn't get picked at all at the start of the season as I don't think they'd been reading my blog and therefore weren't aware that I'd recovered from the Googly syndrome and recovered my Leg-Break.

There's obviously a right way of doing this but hopefully you'll make sense of this -

0 for 17 off 7 overs (2 x maidens)
4 for 27 off 7 overs (1 x Double wicket maiden)
4 for 32 off 5 overs
4 for 31 off 4 overs
2 for 23 off 9 overs (2 x maidens)

I've got to get my head around all the stats they use to measure how good you are. My Captain on paper looks far better than me as he plays 3 maybe 4 times a week and has played every game so far this season. But I think there's some validity in looking at the Strike rates and Runs Per over and compare them?
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Awesome stats mate, really good. I won my seniors teams bowling average with an average of 10.40, so you're definitely well on your way to a trophy, and it seems they have shown some confidence in you after your bags of four.

Keep up the good work, and keep us updated, I'm intrigued to see your progress.

Also, how did you get your wickets mainly?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;354723 said:
I spin up, actually too much but still find it impossible to bowl a yorker length or full toss.QUOTE]

That sounds good if you can't overpitch you won't. Then you can concentrate on the line more.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

breeno;354688 said:
Great stuff Dave, keep it up.

Any chance you can post up season stats?
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This is it so far. I didn't get picked at all at the start of the season as I don't think they'd been reading my blog and therefore weren't aware that I'd recovered from the Googly syndrome and recovered my Leg-Break.

There's obviously a right way of doing this but hopefully you'll make sense of this -

0 for 17 off 7 overs (2 x maidens)
4 for 27 off 7 overs (1 x Double wicket maiden)
4 for 32 off 5 overs
4 for 31 off 4 overs
2 for 23 off 9 overs (2 x maidens)

I've got to get my head around all the stats they use to measure how good you are. My Captain on paper looks far better than me as he plays 3 maybe 4 times a week and has played every game so far this season. But I think there's some validity in looking at the Strike rates and Runs Per over and compare them?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;354702 said:
Good going Dave,
Nice to know that you are doing well. Could you post a video of the length you bowl, with the stumps and batting crease? If you could shoot an over or two that would be even better.

We played a game this weekend, and I came across another legspinner. He didn't bowl any googlies but seemed to have a topspinner that bounced quite nicely. Whether he could bowl them at will is arguable as he didnt have very good control. We hammered all bowlers on their team but the legspinner got two wickets - both with short-ish deliveries that bounced more than the batsman had anticipated. Right hander caught at point topedging a pull, the other - a left hander caught at deep square leg top edging a pull. I pulled off 56*(39) and hit the legspinner for 4 boundaries with only 2 dot balls.
My strategy was simple - pick singles off the good deliveries, and wait for the 1 or 2 bad balls a leggie is bound to bowl in an over.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're doing okay Shrek, wish I could bat a fifth as good as that! I'm working on shooting a load of video stuff to update the videos I've already got on youtube which are now well out of date. I've shot some recently as a test and they look okay, but I've just got to get all the heights of the tripod and the amount of zoom sorted to get the optimum distance sorted. I might look at those tonight and see if they're worth posting. But yes it's on the cards along with a big update on the legspin blog with all five of the different Flipper variations including Grimmetts mystery ball.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

mobby.786;354695 said:
when a bowl the ball lands short so how do a get the ball to land full
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Mobby - not enough information. How old are you and what are you bowling Leg Breaks or something different. It just sounds like you just need to practice more.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah good point, I think I went round then because of the position of the tripod legs!!!

In the last match I went round the wicket to a Lefty trying to bowl the leg break into his body with some Top-Spin on it to try and get it off his gloves or the top end of the bat, the wicket was wet so it didn't bounce and he just stepped backwards and hit it out to short extra cover. I went back to over the wicket on the next ball bowled it down the middle he hit it low to square leg and it was caught low - a pretty good catch by my mate Reece. Both the wickets were catches this week and I didn't have any dropped. I'd have had a catch at Long On if the regular captain had been playing but there wasn't anyone there this week. There weren't that many catching chances other than off the defensive shots of the bloke that saw out my 9 overs. But that would have required a bloke at silly mid-off.

I rarely bowl round the wicket and I'm not sure what the benefits would be other than to Lefties where maybe you'd pretend that you could only bowl Leg breaks to him for a period and the turn one the other way and try squeeze one through the gap between his bat and pads?
 
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