Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Thanks a lot folks. Yeah dave, I think I shouldn't be worrying all that much and I do self assess a lot and I know areas I need to work on. Fitness is very criticial as you won't get that drive going well with your body to unleash all that revs and spin on the ball.

And practice is the key indeed, when i practice a fair bit, I had 4 very good games with the ball on the trot, now that i havent' done much for the last two weeks, i'm feeling a bit out of touch but it's still good to wonder if there are ways to improve.

All I really need is accuracy and then I know I'll reach far because i've turn up a lot of batsmen already with my sharp turn and I have a devilish quicker ball like Afridi - it's really quick!

Maybe I need to bowl a bit slower so my deliveries would be more accurate, the problem is, I play a lot of 2020 on a small ground, 35 metres straight back so that's why I train to bowl quick, flighted and inbetween so maybe I am practicing too much stuff but I have to do it else I make my team lose those 2020 games. many times when I bowl good flight, they just manage to clear the 35 metres, if the fence weren't their, the fielders sometimes would have had time to get back from 30 metres to catch it. The national 2020 competition will be played on bigger grounds so i'll bowl a bit slower on those and see what happens.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Another good day at the office. I got 9 overs today and went for 23 with 2 wickets and a 2 maidens. Quite a tricky game and I had a right battle with one bloke who lasted the 9 overs. The wicket was very damp and there'd been a lot of rain and the key aspect to that was that there wasn't a great deal of bounce to be had. I definitely have to work on my Leg Break more because yesterday I was getting it to turn more (But that maybe because the ground was dryer/harder)? Whereas today I couldn't produce a big turning Leg Break. I also noted that all the runs that were conceded were almost exclusively from balls that were put on Leg stump or bowled wide of leg-stump or Wrong Uns that turned and went wide of leg stump (Pitched on middle). So a definite learning curve today because this bloke just wasn't interested in anything that I tried to tempt him with unless it went Leg side and then most of the time he got it away. Very patient and cautious player, but it led to them losing in the end.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

spin wiz;354283 said:
a devilish quicker ball like Afridi - it's really quick!

QUOTE]
Would I be right in saying Afridi is the best legspinner in test cricket at the moment ?
It would be good to see Rashid get a go for England.He should go good if he comes here on the next tour. But somehow I think the wickets will favour finger spinners this summer. I have seen it before where the English offspinners will do lots better on certain English wickets than legspinners. Low bounce and dusty suits those who spin the wrong way. The proper spinner, that is the legspinner gets no benefit from those wickets usually. I would like to see one of the commentators drop a cricket ball on a good length on the morning of the Cardiff test just to see the bounce.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354523 said:
Another good day at the office. I got 9 overs today and went for 23 with 2 wickets and a 2 maidens. Quite a tricky game and I had a right battle with one bloke who lasted the 9 overs. The wicket was very damp and there'd been a lot of rain and the key aspect to that was that there wasn't a great deal of bounce to be had. I definitely have to work on my Leg Break more because yesterday I was getting it to turn more (But that maybe because the ground was dryer/harder)? Whereas today I couldn't produce a big turning Leg Break. I also noted that all the runs that were conceded were almost exclusively from balls that were put on Leg stump or bowled wide of leg-stump or Wrong Uns that turned and went wide of leg stump (Pitched on middle). So a definite learning curve today because this bloke just wasn't interested in anything that I tried to tempt him with unless it went Leg side and then most of the time he got it away. Very patient and cautious player, but it led to them losing in the end.
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Definately a pattern happening it has to be a lot more than a lucky streak. Keep it up.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

nah macca afridi is the best odi leggie(pretty much only not including rashid) and he doesn't even make the pakistan test team as they have danish kaneria. The only other test leggie is amit mishra of india who i'd say is better but they are very close in standard really.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

gundalf7;354377 said:
nah macca afridi is the best odi leggie(pretty much only not including rashid) and he doesn't even make the pakistan test team as they have danish kaneria. The only other test leggie is amit mishra of india who i'd say is better but they are very close in standard really.
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Gundalf is spot on. India also have piyush chawla who is doing well in the uk, but he is used more for one dayers. Apparently O'Keefe said he would like to coach him. From what Macca said though he had better learn the big leg spinner from someone else though.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354523 said:
Another good day at the office. I got 9 overs today and went for 23 with 2 wickets and a 2 maidens. Quite a tricky game and I had a right battle with one bloke who lasted the 9 overs. The wicket was very damp and there'd been a lot of rain and the key aspect to that was that there wasn't a great deal of bounce to be had. I definitely have to work on my Leg Break more because yesterday I was getting it to turn more (But that maybe because the ground was dryer/harder)? Whereas today I couldn't produce a big turning Leg Break. I also noted that all the runs that were conceded were almost exclusively from balls that were put on Leg stump or bowled wide of leg-stump or Wrong Uns that turned and went wide of leg stump (Pitched on middle). So a definite learning curve today because this bloke just wasn't interested in anything that I tried to tempt him with unless it went Leg side and then most of the time he got it away. Very patient and cautious player, but it led to them losing in the end.
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Good going Dave,
Nice to know that you are doing well. Could you post a video of the length you bowl, with the stumps and batting crease? If you could shoot an over or two that would be even better.

We played a game this weekend, and I came across another legspinner. He didn't bowl any googlies but seemed to have a topspinner that bounced quite nicely. Whether he could bowl them at will is arguable as he didnt have very good control. We hammered all bowlers on their team but the legspinner got two wickets - both with short-ish deliveries that bounced more than the batsman had anticipated. Right hander caught at point topedging a pull, the other - a left hander caught at deep square leg top edging a pull. I pulled off 56*(39) and hit the legspinner for 4 boundaries with only 2 dot balls.
My strategy was simple - pick singles off the good deliveries, and wait for the 1 or 2 bad balls a leggie is bound to bowl in an over.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354160 said:
My son has been going great at indoor. He is not an athlete and is not much good at anything but cricket. He has got a good build for it though if Warne is a model , he is built like a mini warne and has very big and powerful shoulders. I dont want to brag but I haven't seen a kid around town at the moment spin the ball as much.
He always picks up at least 3 wickets a game at indoors. But last night he took 5 with a hat trick of caught and bowls thrown in. He was unplayable with big legspinners and two topspinners. I called it a perfect performance every ball right on target plus he is starting to vary his flight more by darting in the odd faster flatter one but not underpitching it , which was a problem we had worked on. We did put a in lot of hours of bowling practise in this week. Accuracy and spin equals success.
It is a bit of a worry that he is a better bowler now then I ever was. He even knows that now. I might have to take him to Sydney for some pro coaching.
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Great to hear he is continuing to improve. But do not let a pro screw his action if he is doing well, even though I know you do not need advice.

Do you have any drills that can be done by leggies either alone or with someone ekse, Macca? And what was your best delivery/deliveries when you used to play?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354346 said:
spin wiz;354283 said:
a devilish quicker ball like Afridi - it's really quick!

QUOTE]
Would I be right in saying Afridi is the best legspinner in test cricket at the moment ?
It would be good to see Rashid get a go for England.He should go good if he comes here on the next tour. But somehow I think the wickets will favour finger spinners this summer. I have seen it before where the English offspinners will do lots better on certain English wickets than legspinners. Low bounce and dusty suits those who spin the wrong way. The proper spinner, that is the legspinner gets no benefit from those wickets usually. I would like to see one of the commentators drop a cricket ball on a good length on the morning of the Cardiff test just to see the bounce.
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Do you think it has to do with the fact that offspinners have a higher arm and so get more topspin/bounce, as I cannot otherwise see how a legspinner would be disadvantaged. Or is it that the aussies have loads of lefthanders so the ball leaving them will create them more of a problem.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave, did you bowl against any lefthanders? If you have did they find you easier to play then right handers. And do you practise bowling round the wicket. Did grimmett find it harder to get the left handers out, as I gather he did not bowl the googly much.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

No, in the last 4 games I don't recall any lefties and I've got to admit I do lay awake at night trying to visualise what I'd do. Days gone by I'd have just bowled Wrong Uns in the same way you bowl leg breaks at right handers. But since correcting the Googly Syndrome and re-establishing my Leg Break my wrong un isn't quite so accurate. I think my strategy would be to bowl round the wicket and use my Top Spinner which if you've been following my progress has a tendency to turn into a pretty healthy Wrong Un at times, it's just that when I now try and bowl the wrong un it doesn't quite come out right these days and looks as though it needs some work and I'm fearful I'll lose the Leg Break.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354722 said:
" spin up" properly and you wont be short.
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I spin up, actually too much but still find it impossible to bowl a yorker length or full toss. possibly he is bowling with too much topspin, or his run up does not have enough energy. On the other hand he may be young and not have the power yet. Just some ideas.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Does anyone know what googly means. The bosie ( bosanquet), and the wrong one I understand, but what is the genesis of the word googly, I wonder. Macca get your books out.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;354702 said:
Right hander caught at point topedging a pull, the other - a left hander caught at deep square leg top edging a pull.QUOTE]
Classic legspin dismissals. deep square leg and cover point are two of the key fielding positions for the legspinner.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354418 said:
No, in the last 4 games I don't recall any lefties and I've got to admit I do lay awake at night trying to visualise what I'd do. Days gone by I'd have just bowled Wrong Uns in the same way you bowl leg breaks at right handers. But since correcting the Googly Syndrome and re-establishing my Leg Break my wrong un isn't quite so accurate. I think my strategy would be to bowl round the wicket and use my Top Spinner which if you've been following my progress has a tendency to turn into a pretty healthy Wrong Un at times, it's just that when I now try and bowl the wrong un it doesn't quite come out right these days and looks as though it needs some work and I'm fearful I'll lose the Leg Break.
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I agree, if it ain't broke don't fix it. If you are doing well with the leg break why change? Then if you start finding it difficult to get wickets, you can gradually increase practice on the googly.

How is your mystery ball doing. I can sort of bowl it over 16 yards, but get offspin, and have the suspicion that i straighten my elbow ie chuck it.

Two days ago tried to bowl really round arm like grimmett, some were big legbreaks with the seam pointing from point to square leg, some i suspect were sliders as the seam pointed a little more leg slip to extracover and did not break much. Problem is the accuracy. Went yesterday and seemed to have forgotten how to do it. So, I restarted underarm then round arm over short distances and came together again. But, I am sure the way I bowl them will sure look odd compared to your elegant and smooth deliveries.

Something else, during practice do you try to hit the stumps mainly. I somehow seem to be more excited when I really turn the ball. Problem is in about 25% of the times the ball does not go where intended. Eg, if I want middle and off it goes outside leg stump, and funnily enough the first two/three overs are my most accurate and the ones I get most spin from. The more I practice during the session the worse I get. Possibly I try to vary too many variables in each delivery. More interested in experimentation then in being robotic ball after ball.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;354723 said:
I spin up, actually too much but still find it impossible to bowl a yorker length or full toss.QUOTE]

That sounds good if you can't overpitch you won't. Then you can concentrate on the line more.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;354395 said:
macca;354346 said:
Do you think it has to do with the fact that offspinners have a higher arm and so get more topspin/bounce, as I cannot otherwise see how a legspinner would be disadvantaged. Or is it that the aussies have loads of lefthanders so the ball leaving them will create them more of a problem.
Click to expand...

To do with the bounce. I dont know how good Swann is but if he is as good as some of the best English offspinners of the past he could run through this Australian side. It was the drift as well as their spin from their best offspinners. Underwood, Titmus, Emburey if Swann is in their class than Ponting is in big s***t
People forget how good some of those finger spinners that England used to produce were. One of the reasons legspin did not get a fair go. If you look at the figures the legspinners from Aus did no good in the same games where Australia had its big collapses against the offspinners.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

breeno;354688 said:
Great stuff Dave, keep it up.

Any chance you can post up season stats?
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This is it so far. I didn't get picked at all at the start of the season as I don't think they'd been reading my blog and therefore weren't aware that I'd recovered from the Googly syndrome and recovered my Leg-Break.

There's obviously a right way of doing this but hopefully you'll make sense of this -

0 for 17 off 7 overs (2 x maidens)
4 for 27 off 7 overs (1 x Double wicket maiden)
4 for 32 off 5 overs
4 for 31 off 4 overs
2 for 23 off 9 overs (2 x maidens)

I've got to get my head around all the stats they use to measure how good you are. My Captain on paper looks far better than me as he plays 3 maybe 4 times a week and has played every game so far this season. But I think there's some validity in looking at the Strike rates and Runs Per over and compare them?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;354423 said:
I agree, if it ain't broke don't fix it. If you are doing well with the leg break why change? Then if you start finding it difficult to get wickets, you can gradually increase practice on the googly.

How is your mystery ball doing. I can sort of bowl it over 16 yards, but get offspin, and have the suspicion that i straighten my elbow ie chuck it.

Two days ago tried to bowl really round arm like grimmett, some were big legbreaks with the seam pointing from point to square leg, some i suspect were sliders as the seam pointed a little more leg slip to extracover and did not break much. Problem is the accuracy. Went yesterday and seemed to have forgotten how to do it. So, I restarted underarm then round arm over short distances and came together again. But, I am sure the way I bowl them will sure look odd compared to your elegant and smooth deliveries.

Something else, during practice do you try to hit the stumps mainly. I somehow seem to be more excited when I really turn the ball. Problem is in about 25% of the times the ball does not go where intended. Eg, if I want middle and off it goes outside leg stump, and funnily enough the first two/three overs are my most accurate and the ones I get most spin from. The more I practice during the session the worse I get. Possibly I try to vary too many variables in each delivery. More interested in experimentation then in being robotic ball after ball.
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The Mystery ball was on track to be unveiled this weekend (tomorrow) but it's knackered my thumb up, I woke up Wednesday morning with all of the joints in my thumb feeling really sore, so since then I've been resting it and not flicking inwards or in the manner of the bog standard Flipper. At the minute sitting here it feels a lot better, so if tomorrow it feels okay I may have a few before the game and see if I can get them on target. Leading up to the soreness I was doing exceptionally well with it and would have rolled it out in the match, but I'll have to see how I feel tomorrow. I've got another temporary problem at the minute which affects older blokes such as me and is made worse by drinking lager (Dehydration) and today the humidty levels here in the UK have been incredibly high with the temp up in the 26 - 28 degrees level and that's made the situation worse. So hopefully over night that'll sort itself out as well and I might be up for a game!?

Had a bowl today focusing on the Leg Break using my cocked wrist approach and that produced some surprisingly big turning leg breaks that would have been good down the Leg Side I reckon. Again I may give that a go tomorrow as well. Weathers predicted to be good, it's rained this evening so the wicket will be damp and it's going to be warmer and a lot more humid.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;354702 said:
Good going Dave,
Nice to know that you are doing well. Could you post a video of the length you bowl, with the stumps and batting crease? If you could shoot an over or two that would be even better.

We played a game this weekend, and I came across another legspinner. He didn't bowl any googlies but seemed to have a topspinner that bounced quite nicely. Whether he could bowl them at will is arguable as he didnt have very good control. We hammered all bowlers on their team but the legspinner got two wickets - both with short-ish deliveries that bounced more than the batsman had anticipated. Right hander caught at point topedging a pull, the other - a left hander caught at deep square leg top edging a pull. I pulled off 56*(39) and hit the legspinner for 4 boundaries with only 2 dot balls.
My strategy was simple - pick singles off the good deliveries, and wait for the 1 or 2 bad balls a leggie is bound to bowl in an over.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you're doing okay Shrek, wish I could bat a fifth as good as that! I'm working on shooting a load of video stuff to update the videos I've already got on youtube which are now well out of date. I've shot some recently as a test and they look okay, but I've just got to get all the heights of the tripod and the amount of zoom sorted to get the optimum distance sorted. I might look at those tonight and see if they're worth posting. But yes it's on the cards along with a big update on the legspin blog with all five of the different Flipper variations including Grimmetts mystery ball.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;354423 said:
Something else, during practice do you try to hit the stumps mainly. I somehow seem to be more excited when I really turn the ball. Problem is in about 25% of the times the ball does not go where intended. Eg, if I want middle and off it goes outside leg stump, and funnily enough the first two/three overs are my most accurate and the ones I get most spin from. The more I practice during the session the worse I get. Possibly I try to vary too many variables in each delivery. More interested in experimentation then in being robotic ball after ball.
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I'm personally excited to see it pitch on middle and off and break as it should. As long as it's between there and just outside off threatening to hit the stumps I'm happy (Corridor of uncertainty). I don't really get that hung up on it too much and I rarely bowl to hit the stumps intentionally, I'm more concerned that it goes where I want it to, whether it then spins and the degree of spin that just comes as a bonus, but it's happening a lot so I'm more than happy with my bowling at the minute. The other thing I look to do is when I bowl the variations they do what they're supposed to do hence the caution with actually trying to bowl the Wrong Un, because it's out of control.

I have a bucket of balls with a mixture of types. The red ones (the majority) I bowl as Leg Breaks. The white balls top-spinner/wrong Uns and the two-tone balls as Flippers and I bowl the variations as they come out of the bucket, so I never bowl the same thing all the time unless I feel it needs it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

mobby.786;354695 said:
when a bowl the ball lands short so how do a get the ball to land full
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Mobby - not enough information. How old are you and what are you bowling Leg Breaks or something different. It just sounds like you just need to practice more.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354425 said:
sadspinner;354395 said:
To do with the bounce. I dont know how good Swann is but if he is as good as some of the best English offspinners of the past he could run through this Australian side. It was the drift as well as their spin from their best offspinners. Underwood, Titmus, Emburey if Swann is in their class than Ponting is in big s***t
People forget how good some of those finger spinners that England used to produce were. One of the reasons legspin did not get a fair go. If you look at the figures the legspinners from Aus did no good in the same games where Australia had its big collapses against the offspinners.
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I'm rubbish at all the stats you blokes look at and don't have the same knowledge and experience (Or sky TV) of all these different bowlers. But having seen Swann on terrestrial TV and on-line TV footage I reckon he looks pretty handy. He looks a lot more fluid and faster than Panesar and just seems to revel in the game and has an air of determination and self confidence about him, whereas Panesar to me always looks as though he's just been given the chance for the first time and he's got to prove himself. It looks as though he has try at it and that he's trying too hard. Swann just looks as though it's his job and that he loves it and knows exactly what to do.
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;354425 said:
sadspinner;354395 said:
To do with the bounce. I dont know how good Swann is but if he is as good as some of the best English offspinners of the past he could run through this Australian side. It was the drift as well as their spin from their best offspinners. Underwood, Titmus, Emburey if Swann is in their class than Ponting is in big s***t
People forget how good some of those finger spinners that England used to produce were. One of the reasons legspin did not get a fair go. If you look at the figures the legspinners from Aus did no good in the same games where Australia had its big collapses against the offspinners.
Click to expand...

Why then would the English finger spinners do well but the Aussie Leg Spinners not so?
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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah good point, I think I went round then because of the position of the tripod legs!!!

In the last match I went round the wicket to a Lefty trying to bowl the leg break into his body with some Top-Spin on it to try and get it off his gloves or the top end of the bat, the wicket was wet so it didn't bounce and he just stepped backwards and hit it out to short extra cover. I went back to over the wicket on the next ball bowled it down the middle he hit it low to square leg and it was caught low - a pretty good catch by my mate Reece. Both the wickets were catches this week and I didn't have any dropped. I'd have had a catch at Long On if the regular captain had been playing but there wasn't anyone there this week. There weren't that many catching chances other than off the defensive shots of the bloke that saw out my 9 overs. But that would have required a bloke at silly mid-off.

I rarely bowl round the wicket and I'm not sure what the benefits would be other than to Lefties where maybe you'd pretend that you could only bowl Leg breaks to him for a period and the turn one the other way and try squeeze one through the gap between his bat and pads?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Something that I am noticing with my Leg breaks is that of the 3 approaches to bowling it that I have -

1. 3rd finger straight hand approach.
2. Cocked wrist flick approach.
3. Big flick inwards (The Biggun)

Because of my arm (Medial Epincondylitis) I'm only using 1 & 2. Technique 1 is getting me the wickets and I'm throwing up the odd wrist flick jobbie. But this delivery is odd in that it's very inconsistent - it turns big when it does turn with very little effort, but 50% of the time it simply goes straight and I can't figure out the nuances of the action which cause it to turn or not turn which is a bit frustrating because if I could do it 90% of the time or more I'd go down the leg-side and turn it in on the stumps giving myself more options. I kind of like the idea of a slightly shorter ball that comes in across the front of the body or behind it to remove the off-stump bail. I suppose I'll have to follow my own mantra and practice it more!!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;354735 said:
Something that I am noticing with my Leg breaks is that of the 3 approaches to bowling it that I have -

1. 3rd finger straight hand approach.
2. Cocked wrist flick approach.
3. Big flick inwards (The Biggun)

Because of my arm (Medial Epincondylitis) I'm only using 1 & 2. Technique 1 is getting me the wickets and I'm throwing up the odd wrist flick jobbie. But this delivery is odd in that it's very inconsistent - it turns big when it does turn with very little effort, but 50% of the time it simply goes straight and I can't figure out the nuances of the action which cause it to turn or not turn which is a bit frustrating because if I could do it 90% of the time or more I'd go down the leg-side and turn it in on the stumps giving myself more options. I kind of like the idea of a slightly shorter ball that comes in across the front of the body or behind it to remove the off-stump bail. I suppose I'll have to follow my own mantra and practice it more!!!
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I know what you mean. You bowl one on middle stump and it deviates two stumps further out than off stump, then try it outside leg stump and it goes straight. The only explanation/s I have is/are:
1. The ones that turn land on the seam, while those that do not, land on the rest of the ball or
2. The one that does not turn is the backspinner/slider, while the one that turns is the big legbreak.

And Dave, do they call any ball outside leg stump as a wide, as that is what they do in first class cricket. Are they more lenient at club level?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Something else, during practice do you try to hit the stumps mainly. I somehow seem to be more excited when I really turn the ball. Problem is in about 25% of the times the ball does not go where intended. Eg, if I want middle and off it goes outside leg stump, and funnily enough the first two/three overs are my most accurate and the ones I get most spin from. The more I practice during the session the worse I get. Possibly I try to vary too many variables in each delivery. More interested in experimentation then in being robotic ball after ball.
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I don't usually aim to hit the stumps, as I tend to focus on spinning the ball. If I wanted to hit the stumps with my best; I would have to pitch it at least half a foot outside leg stump(the local nets spin quite well), which while might be okay occasionally, is not exactly the best thing to be doing every ball. And then there is my inconsistency, if I aimed everything half a foot or more outside leg stump; I would bowl a lot of wides as I don't always get maximum turn.

I usually aim for middle and leg or leg and attempt to spin it past off.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Thankfully they're a lot more lenient. I thought I'd have been given a few wides down leg-side but looking at my figures it looks like they were kind to me. But I've got to admit in my kids game Sunday morning our umpires were being amazingly harsh to the oppo's bowling when they were umpiring behind the stumps whereas their umpire was a lot fairer it seemed!
 
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