Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I have started cricket training of my Cousin brother who is of 11 years old.
My uncle is looking forward to his training...i will be taking him to ground every Saturday and Sunday for fielding,batting and bowling drills..
the key would be to work on his fitness and getting him to use to warm routines...
Right now i just showed him the leg spin grip and practice the door knob-type wrist movement only...with a tennis ball...
He looks a natural leg spinner and i wanted him to be a leg spinner rather be a medium fast bowler(which normally kids of his age do first and then according to the coaches instruction change it spin or keep it fast)..
Starting early will help him in longer run of cricket.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;345825 said:
The use of backspin isn't mentioned elsewhere , because most online sources dont go into much detail. But this thread has allowed Philpotts loop theory, which is like e=mc2 for legspin bowlers to be learnt and understood especially if you read " the art of wrist spin" or one of his earlier coaching manuals.
Philpott was once employed by Mike Atherton to teach the England players the loop theory to try and counter Warne. If you understand the theory and how the various spins, (backspin, underspin, topspin, overspin, offspin, legspin) behave, then you are no longer in the dark, and leg-spin loses a lot of its mystery. It has always suited legspinners to overplay the " art" and intrigue involved in their craft, when in fact it is just another trade that can be learnt by almost anyone with the knowledge and the application to learn.
It used to be very much a guild where secrets where kept amongst legspinners and even carried to their graves! Colin Mc Cool never told anyone his backspinner, which was different again from everbody elses.
These days information is more widely shared, so it should be easier to coach young legspinners, but one thing that wont change is the amount of practise it takes to get any good.I am convinced Legspinners have to work harder than any other type of bowler to gain and maintain accuracy
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I reckon that is definitely the case. My adversary on my team for selection for games bowls a really nice Leg Break, but it's more or less his only ball and because he doesn't put the kind of hours in that I do, he doesn't really develop as a player and yet he's probably only 30ish with no commitments. So when he bowls he does so with the minimum of confidence and soon bowls wides and then it's all downhill from there as he gets the Yips and goes to pieces. Yet if you say to him 'Mate - how do you do that - show us your grip, what is it that you're doing to get it to spin so well'? You can tell there's a part of him that is gagging to explain, but there's also that sense that really he doesn't want you to know and learn his secret! Whereas me - I'm showing everyone and anyone who wants to listen. But even then they tend to look at me as if I'm mad as if to say 'Bull**** does that work'. But they're not aware of the amount of time and effort I put into it and therefore don't believe that I'm bowling these variations.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave I remember where you were after a copy of Philpotts "A spinners yarn", I picked up a another copy yesterday at a second hand book shop for a few bob. So I could post you a copy if you like.
The funny thing was as I was flipping through the book , a photo fell out of the book, it was a photo of Mushtaq Mohammad taken by a fan in the 70,s/80,s and he has left it in the book, the guy in the photo with Mushtaq is wearing a Manly cricket jumper, and the photo must have been taken at the Manly clubhouse.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Here they are:http://www.flickr.com/photos/stateli...sw/3064006465/
Sportspages.com: GRIMMETT, CLARENCE VICTOR (AUSTRALIA)

Yes the Avatar shows the grip used by Iverson and in fact is iverson, who died tragically from depression. I got the book by gideon haigh about two years ago and was really touched by the story. Yet again he was another innovator, who bamboozled the best batsmen of his era due to his unorthodox methods. They started working him out by playing him as an offspin bowler. By the way he was never coached as well, but spent his life spinning balls. He was obsessed by the effects of spinning. Finally though his story ended tragically. I am surprised that before mendis appeared, that was very little information on this bowler.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

That link doesn't work - but have a look at this as it's from a slightly different angle - http://www.planetnz.com/palmheads/images/grips2_2.jpg I can't believe that the spin is imparted through the flicking of the middle finger!

Have a look at this as well - I reckon this blokes looking in on what we're doing as this has all been updated with new stuff! Do you know this link and do you reckon that he's updated this recently?

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...&ndsp=20&hl=en&safe=active&sa=N&start=20&um=1

I've just looked at this again and the blokes got a youtube link which I'll go on and try and get him involved on here as he's equally as obessed as we are and we need his input! But back to the video. You know I've been banging on about my Leg break that I can bowl over the full 22 yards and another more wristy version, well this Iverson Gleeson video clips has attributes of my other leg break which is very 'Fingery' as well as wristy. So this is something I'm going to delve into and see if there's any mileage to be had from it?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

And these. He seems to use his thumb as i do and philpott seems to do to, at least going by the pictures on his book. Also in the other book he seems to release the ball very late. He has gone well past the vertical. Is this possible or is it as he was posing for the photo. Never seen warne release it down there in the clips. Any ideas Sportspages.com: GRIMMETT, CLARENCE VICTOR (AUSTRALIA)
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I had posted the links on Post numbers 980 and 981 in the wrist spin bowling threads if you want to take a look.

As regards that website, I saw it for the first time about two years ago when i started getting interseted in leg spin. This and your blog where the only relevant ones I found besides the warne/jenner videos and you tube.


I also find that when i use the iverson grip, it is the only way I can bowl a staightish delivery, or else getminimal leg spin. I tried to bowl offspin/googly with this grip without much sucess over 22 yards.

As you say he seems very interested in the subject and experiments lots by the look of it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

John Gleeson adopted the Iverson grip with great success he added an orthodox offspinner and a seamer. The ball is held between the thumb and the bent middle finger and spin imparted by flicking and straightening that finger. you dont use any fingers other than thumb and middle finger, your hand has to be large and strong. for legspin the hand cuts outside the ball and looks like an off break position, the opposite is true for the off break ,it looks like a legbreak.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

It would be a pose; he's probably demonstrating something in a leg-spinner's action without releasing the ball. My guess would be how you push the ball forward.

There is no possible way that is actually where he released the ball; it wouldn't make the length of the pitch if you released there.

*Edit*
Actually, it could be pretty close to his release point. If you consider his round arm action. His release would have to be later because if it wasn't the ball would go way down the leg-side.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;345837 said:
John Gleeson adopted the Iverson grip with great success he added an orthodox offspinner and a seamer. The ball is held between the thumb and the bent middle finger and spin imparted by flicking and straightening that finger. you dont use any fingers other than thumb and middle finger, your hand has to be large and strong. for legspin the hand cuts outside the ball and looks like an off break position, the opposite is true for the off break ,it looks like a legbreak.
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They worked out that if his finger pointed to the batsmans offside it would be a leg break and vice versa for the offspinner. It seems his stock ball though was the offspinning version according to the book.

Macca in his other books, does philpott add anything to what he says in the bible as they are all out of print or difficult to get.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

O'Reilly's grip can be made by forming a pistol with your hand, with the third finger pressed against the palm, and the top two fingers very close together. You really need to use your thumb for his grip. Tiger O Reilly grew up in the outback and was self-taught with little coaching, and when he arrived in Sydney the first thing they tried to change was his grip, which he never did.
Bradman said he was the greatest bowler he had ever faced or had ever seen.
I suppose saddo we could make a list of thumb on or off the ball legspinners. For a start, Grimmett, O 'Reilly and Philpott all had their thumbs on the ball. We can tell from photos and their own descriptions of their grips.
A lot of the Grimmett stuff is posed and non-action, one of the shots is from a series where he demonstrates bowling generally not just legspin. One might be a wrongun, he was always telegraphing his wrongun and emphasising the dropped left shoulder, but he had two wronguns, one obvious and another one where he didn't drop the shoulder and with his supple wrist it was harder to pick.
Grimmett used the wrongun less frequently later in his career but would often reveal it just to let the batsman know he still had one. Even though his wrongun was reported to be not that good he still got plenty of wickets with it, including Bradmans, where he describes bowling a number of wronguns in a row to the Don, which caused him to hole out.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just found his email address and emailed him asking him if he'd be interested in joining us in order that we have world domination of spin bowling resources.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca looking at this from warne Cricinfo - Shane Warne bowls during Australia’s net session ahead of his final Test match it is very similar to the grip by o'reilly, even though the thumb cannot be seen. I had read the story that they tried to change his grip. It may eplain why mystery bowlers were successful eg Iverson/Gleeson, Muralitharan, Mendis. Had they been coached at an early age they would have probably been told to change their grip/action. I think only warne and MacGill have been coached and have been successful, but I think have added nothing new to leg spin or spin bowling in general. The last two being successful not due to the fact that they added something new but in that they were unusually talented. It seems even Kumble is very unorthodox, so the point is of the three most successful spinners, two are unorthodox due to probably being unexposed to coaching, while warne who went to academies is orthodox but successful due to immense talent. So the question is, should there really be leg spin coaches except to show you the real basics and possibly advice about tactics? If you lokk at jenner after all these years, has he helped produce a genuinely talented leg spinner despite the clinics he holds round the world? I think the solution is having a big back garden, a few balls, and a dog to get them back to you..... and possibly this thread to get you through the tough days when all seems hopeless. It is like a say Multiple sclerosis support group, where each thrives from another members enthusiasm, and sometimes dare I say failures ( i am a saddo after all, might change my name to DeSade maybe). God it must be the rain here that is doing this to me, rambling and grumbling like an old failed legspinner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

His first book was " how to play cricket" in 1973 and has his theory but not as developed as in "art of wrist spin". His books are at the university so I am going to have a look at them soon. They are cricket coaching manuals aimed at coaches I think. He is also a great batting and fielding coach.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo what you are saying is true. In Benauds' " my spin on cricket" he rates Bosquanet, Iverson, Gleeson and Warne as the innovators of spin,. How Warne made his list I dont know, Richie seems a bit in love with Warnie sometimes. But as you say Warne was not a great innovator, just the best "spinner" of a cricket ball in history probably. But as Bobby Simpson says , all Warnes new deliveries were just variations on Philpotts backspinner.
Benaud leaves out Grimmett from his list of innovators, which seems strange because Clarrie invented the flipper, discovered the Iverson grip before Iverson, worked out an outside of the hand slider, a slow ball, in fact he was still working on deliveries in his backyard well past his three score and ten years!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What's the story with 'dropping the shoulder' when bowling the wrong un?

I think the case with Terry Jenner is that he's a good solid wrist spinner, but more than that he's able to look at Warne (In particular) and suggest ideas. I get the impression that Jenner just works exceptionally well with Warne for some reason on a one to one basis and Jenners case for being 'The Spin Doctor' is massively helped by virtue of Warne being an exception individual when it comes to wrist spin bowling. Other than Warne who else cites Jenner as being a genius coach as you've said here? Was Jenner instrumental in Warnes development from pre 1993? To leave Grimmett out of the list of great innovators is like not crediting Tenzing and Hilary for conquering Everest because they took so long doing so and then highlighting one of the modern climbers that may have done it more frequently or faster as being better - or is that a really crap analogy?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;345840 said:
His first book was " how to play cricket" in 1973 and has his theory but not as developed as in "art of wrist spin". His books are at the university so I am going to have a look at them soon. They are cricket coaching manuals aimed at coaches I think. He is also a great batting and fielding coach.
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Yes i think he could nearly qualify as an all rounder, even though i guess the run average has to be higher than the run per wicket average to qualify as an allrounder. He was also aussie and sri lanka coach, so he is a complete allrounder. Shame he did not play longer. By the way it is interesting he says he discovered the backspinner late in his carrear and could not develop it. It seems no other leggie shared the secret with him.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave I sent that philpott book yesterday, I sent it airmail and there is my address on the back, so you could send me a money order or postal note for ten pounds, if I had sent it by sea it would only have cost 5 pounds. I should have, but at least you get it quicker.
It's an autobiography, but there is a good chapter on the flipper and its history. There is also the sad story of how his test career ended.
Also he talks of his involvement in the t.v series "bodyline" where he played the part of Clarrie Grimmett!
Dropping the left shoulder goes back to the invention of the "bosie" where bosquanet literally stumbled on the delivery because the left side of his body collapsed into a deep rut on the wicket and this dropped his left shoulder and twisted his arm and wrist around and caused him to bowl an offspinner with a leg-break action. Or so one story goes , others say that he discovered it bowling on a beach in England somewhere. Grimmett read of this in New Zealand as a boy and went out on the Basin Reserve and came up with his own wrongun.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Off the back of all this I've just had a look at Ajantha Mendis again YouTube - The Carrom Ball - Ajantha Mendis the ball hardly turns off the pitch and one of them is even described as a leg cutter which to me suggest that his bowling is more akin to a Medium pacers speed and style? Is this about right and then with the Iverson Gleeson finger spin the turn that it does get combined with a delivery that looks like a straight forward Medium Pacers ball causes all the problems? Or am I selling him short? I wonder what he was doing before he discovered the Carrom Ball AKA Iverson Gleeson grip?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Philpott spent a lot of time teaching and coaching in N.Z. He was born in Sydney and had serious health problems as a child. His test career ended for various reasons, it was still an amateur sport in Australia and he had to make a living. But he was unfairly criticised for one performance ,where he was carrying a major finger injury, but if you look at his figures in that, his last test ,they are not so bad at all. He would waltz into the current aussie side.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;345712 said:
Macca looking at this from warne Cricinfo - Shane Warne bowls during Australia’s net session ahead of his final Test match it is very similar to the grip by o'reilly, even though the thumb cannot be seen. I had read the story that they tried to change his grip. It may eplain why mystery bowlers were successful eg Iverson/Gleeson, Muralitharan, Mendis. Had they been coached at an early age they would have probably been told to change their grip/action. I think only warne and MacGill have been coached and have been successful, but I think have added nothing new to leg spin or spin bowling in general. The last two being successful not due to the fact that they added something new but in that they were unusually talented. It seems even Kumble is very unorthodox, so the point is of the three most successful spinners, two are unorthodox due to probably being unexposed to coaching, while warne who went to academies is orthodox but successful due to immense talent. So the question is, should there really be leg spin coaches except to show you the real basics and possibly advice about tactics? If you lokk at jenner after all these years, has he helped produce a genuinely talented leg spinner despite the clinics he holds round the world? I think the solution is having a big back garden, a few balls, and a dog to get them back to you..... and possibly this thread to get you through the tough days when all seems hopeless. It is like a say Multiple sclerosis support group, where each thrives from another members enthusiasm, and sometimes dare I say failures ( i am a saddo after all, might change my name to DeSade maybe). God it must be the rain here that is doing this to me, rambling and grumbling like an old failed legspinner.
Click to expand...

Coaching is an interesting issue. I really do think it is quite important; I mean I never had a constant leg break till I read the the "spin it back towards your self" trick on this site. Before that I could bowl an over-spun leg-break about half the time, the other half I would release to close to a top-spinner so they hardly turned. After reading the "spin it back towards yourself" advice I've hardly bowled any of those nasty almost top-spinners when attempting the leg-break. If I had someone to tell me that when I first started my bowling would probably be at least a year ahead of where it is now.

Of course being over-coached is very bad; I think that it is very unwise to do a lot a fiddling with natural actions, particularly at young ages, unless they are dangerous. The important thing is to get results. How that is achieved is rather irreverent.

I also think it is also important to keep in mind what the bowler seeks to be. If the bowler wants to become a orthodox leg-spinner who rips the ball like Warne, then he should be probably be coached as such. If the bowler is happy with bowling similar to Kumble, then there is not much point trying to coach him to be like Warne.

However, I do think that learning in an unstructured environment has an advantage. It allows you to learn the craft without the pressures of a match situation. Jenner has said a lot about how young spinners are often told bowl flat to contain the scoring, rather than being allowed toss it up to try and get wickets.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;345823 said:
I think a recent case in point is the fast bowler Jimmy Anderson. I was reading a few weeks back prior to the recent matches in the WI his coaches had given up on trying to rectify his weird and potentially damaging bowling action. I've got a picture on the wall next to the computer of him (Despite the fact that he's a fast bowler) because the picture is bizarre. He's caught at a point after releasing the ball & he's pictured almost bodily parrallel to the ground with his arms almost at his sides and he's looking out towards where Leg slip would be. See this picture http://d.yimg.com/ca.yimg.com/p/090310/afp/iphoto_1236724403776-3-0jpg.jpg my image has both his legs together without any dangling down.

Cricinfo - James Anderson goes airborne in his attempt to break through for England

This technique the coaches decided needed to be corrected if he was to play international cricket for England on a regular basis and for the last two years they've been trying to change his bowling action. The article then went on to say that just recently they'd scrapped that idea and were allowing him to revert back to his natural bowling style with which he took far more wickets.

All of which reinforces the argument for letting people develop their own techniques and ways of doing stuff. Who else has taken 4 wickets in succession in one over? I only know of the very unorthodox Malinga.
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Well the situation with dangerous bowling actions is an interesting one; if the action has serious potential to cause injury, then I really think it should be changed. That said, it can be hard to learn something new, particularly if you have been doing the same thing for a different way for at least half your life. Ideally, you would want to catch dangerous actions as early(although you would have to be very careful, as they may get frustrated if they were getting good results with their old action) as possible, so that their body doesn't get so used to the dangerous action.

Unfortunately, a lot of coaches may not pick up on that one of their players has a dangerous action. I don't know how widespread this would be(maybe Liz knows?); but from what you've said about how little some clubs know of bowling, it wouldn't surprise me there were a few clubs with a coach/coaches who don't know how to recognise dangerous actions.

But there is certainly no reason to change an unorthodox action if it gets results and is not an injury threat.

someblokecalleddave said:
I think with our specialism you need some direction, but there's not a lot of it about. The team that my sons play for almost exclude spin bowling outright. There seems to be one kid that bowls finger spin and he's crap and there doesn't seem to be anyone in the club that's able to offer him any help and I've watched the poor kid in the nets and he's all over the place trying to figure out what it is that he needs to be doing. My own son was told not to grip the ball across the seam and it was only when I told him to ignore the bloke and bowl in his own way (Wrist spin) and he nearly got three wickets off 6 balls (2 drops and one useless wicket keeper) that the bloke back tracked and said to him "Listen to your Dad when it comes to your bowling son".

I think that once you have the basics you just need to self evaluate/assess and listen to the advice that people do offer you and then decide whether to act on it. There does seems to be a reluctance for people to offer advice at club level because it is such a dark art and they don't know what's involved.
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Absolutely, seven years ago, at the age of 11, I went to a three day cricket clinic; I attempted to bowl leg-spin and didn't turn it at all. Did the coach pick up that I couldn't bowl it very well? No. Or he did and didn't say anything for fear of upsetting me. Of course I was partly to blame as well. I didn't ask him(I was very shy at that age): "I'm trying to bowl leg-spin but seem unable to turn it at all. Any ideas on what could be wrong?

But looking back on it would seem weird if he knew how leg-spin was bowled, yet he didn't say anything; the first(well after I made sure their action wasn't mixed)thing I would do as a coach is ask the bowler what he is trying to bowl(which this coach didn't) and see whether the results matched what you would get doing the most basic technique correctly(which I clearly wasn't).

Yes, what the bowler wants is one of the most important things. I mean I've considerably changed all my actions(leg-spin, off-spin, seam-up) a few times each. I have found it incredibly easy to change my actions once I have the knowledge of how to do it, whether this is because I am just good at it or because the old action just never got deeply embedded I don't know; but the biggest thing about whenever I changed an action is that it was what I wanted.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Terry Jenner had a lot to do with the development of Adil Rashid from Yorkshire. He has coached him on and off since Rashid was 14. I was looking at some photos the other day of Jenner at his peak and remembering seeing him bowl a few times and he had a superb classical action, one of the best I have seen, he used to keep his front arm high right until the moment of delivery, and as he completed his delivery his bowling hand went down and across his body perfectly. He looks a lot like Warne in some shots, in fact more like Warne than any bowler I can think of.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

^_^

Yay! I got my leg break straightened out. And by straightened out, I mean it's breaking again. Of course, I can't throw a wrong 'un or topspinner anymore, but that'll come back, right? :cool:
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Sometimes I sit here and think why do I write so much on here and is anyone listening and is of any consequence - or have I just got OCD or something. But when I read this stuff -

"Coaching is an interesting issue. I really do think it is quite important; I mean I never had a constant leg break till I read the the "spin it back towards your self" trick on this site. Before that I could bowl an over-spun leg-break about half the time, the other half I would release to close to a top-spinner so they hardly turned. After reading the "spin it back towards yourself" advice I've hardly bowled any of those nasty almost top-spinners when attempting the leg-break. If I had someone to tell me that when I first started my bowling would probably be at least a year ahead of where it is now".

I feel as though it's all been worthwhile as I think that was one of the concepts that I brought to the forum if I remember rightly. Additionally when I did introduce the idea (Albeit via Philpott - I think?) there were a few people that suggested that I was talking out of my a**e. So it's good to read this.

Most of us on here understand the potential for spinning the ball back towards yourself and we'd always advocate it, but other than on here and in Philpotts book I've never come across it anywhere else, not even via Warne and Jenner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Cotton Eye Joe;345854 said:
^_^

Yay! I got my leg break straightened out. And by straightened out, I mean it's breaking again. Of course, I can't throw a wrong 'un or topspinner anymore, but that'll come back, right? :cool:
Click to expand...

How did you do it Cotton Eye Joe ?
 
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Yeah, I don't know why that piece of advice is never mentioned anywhere else.

It really was the catalyst for my leg-break. Perhaps it is thought to be confusing, which I can't really understand as I got it pretty much as soon as I read it; but then I guess different people learn differently.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Good ol' wrist spinning! I've tried teaching my some of my upcoming kids that I coached, It's not easy but I feel they are getting there. With season over, I hope there not forgetting, Although I am a wrist spinner for life. I feel wrist spinning is great for getting out the mid order more than the top order. The teams we have over here in the AUS have some pretty good batsmen so my boys will need to step that up.
 
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Yeah definitely - it's a case of different things for different people. As the others have said earlier in the thread, if unorthodox methods work for you stick with them unless of course they might cause injury in the long run. I think a recent case in point is the fast bowler Jimmy Anderson. I was reading a few weeks back prior to the recent matches in the WI his coaches had given up on trying to rectify his weird and potentially damaging bowling action. I've got a picture on the wall next to the computer of him (Despite the fact that he's a fast bowler) because the picture is bizarre. He's caught at a point after releasing the ball & he's pictured almost bodily parrallel to the ground with his arms almost at his sides and he's looking out towards where Leg slip would be. See this picture http://d.yimg.com/ca.yimg.com/p/090310/afp/iphoto_1236724403776-3-0jpg.jpg my image has both his legs together without any dangling down.

Cricinfo - James Anderson goes airborne in his attempt to break through for England

This technique the coaches decided needed to be corrected if he was to play international cricket for England on a regular basis and for the last two years they've been trying to change his bowling action. The article then went on to say that just recently they'd scrapped that idea and were allowing him to revert back to his natural bowling style with which he took far more wickets.

All of which reinforces the argument for letting people develop their own techniques and ways of doing stuff. Who else has taken 4 wickets in succession in one over? I only know of the very unorthodox Malinga.

I think with our specialism you need some direction, but there's not a lot of it about. The team that my sons play for almost exclude spin bowling outright. There seems to be one kid that bowls finger spin and he's crap and there doesn't seem to be anyone in the club that's able to offer him any help and I've watched the poor kid in the nets and he's all over the place trying to figure out what it is that he needs to be doing. My own son was told not to grip the ball across the seam and it was only when I told him to ignore the bloke and bowl in his own way (Wrist spin) and he nearly got three wickets off 6 balls (2 drops and one useless wicket keeper) that the bloke back tracked and said to him "Listen to your Dad when it comes to your bowling son".

I think that once you have the basics you just need to self evaluate/assess and listen to the advice that people do offer you and then decide whether to act on it. There does seems to be a reluctance for people to offer advice at club level because it is such a dark art and they don't know what's involved. I think these forums and the resources that are here on-line are exceptionally helpful as long as you're prepared to try things and make decisins as to whether they're right for you.
 
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Re EOW's comments on what to bowl or what not to bowl is interesting. Both my son's seem really set in their decisions as to who they are as bowlers. So much so that they potentially neglecting all other aspects of the game because they only see themselves as bowlers. Joe said last night 'We're Monty Panesar bowlers.... we can't bat - we just bowl' referring to him and me! Cheeky blighter and that's with all the effort that I've been putting in recently to improve my run of ducks last season. As a teenager in a team it must be difficult to make the decisions as to what kind of bowler you are and I suppose that you do have the luxury of being young and changing your technique. I know recently I looked at the way that Harbijan Singh bowls with his double rotation of his arm as he comes in to bowl the ball and found it quite appealing in that it was a lot faster and had the potential to turn into a simple straight slow medium pace technique. But I stopped as it wasn't really helping with my leg break. I'd imagine that if you went through a bad phase in your bowling as a youngster it might be tempting to change from one discipline to anothe quite easily rather than persevere over the longer period. I think looking at the committment and time scales that Grimmett and Jenner both write about you can see why younger blokes could easily be tempted away from the Art of Wrist spin when they're seemingly not moving forward. When you read Philpotts book - the amount of committment and love he suggests all the way through the book that you should give to the discipline even has me questioning 'Am I doing enough'?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The use of backspin isn't mentioned elsewhere , because most online sources dont go into much detail. But this thread has allowed Philpotts loop theory, which is like e=mc2 for legspin bowlers to be learnt and understood especially if you read " the art of wrist spin" or one of his earlier coaching manuals.
Philpott was once employed by Mike Atherton to teach the England players the loop theory to try and counter Warne. If you understand the theory and how the various spins, (backspin, underspin, topspin, overspin, offspin, legspin) behave, then you are no longer in the dark, and leg-spin loses a lot of its mystery. It has always suited legspinners to overplay the " art" and intrigue involved in their craft, when in fact it is just another trade that can be learnt by almost anyone with the knowledge and the application to learn.
It used to be very much a guild where secrets where kept amongst legspinners and even carried to their graves! Colin Mc Cool never told anyone his backspinner, which was different again from everbody elses.
These days information is more widely shared, so it should be easier to coach young legspinners, but one thing that wont change is the amount of practise it takes to get any good.I am convinced Legspinners have to work harder than any other type of bowler to gain and maintain accuracy
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I am not surprised that club coaches have no idea of leg spin.Today I heard an ex England test player commenting during the game pakistan vs australia. He called a fast leg break a flipper, even after having seen the replay.I am not surprised though as even we who are a bit obsessed on this thread, find it difficult to pick what some leg spinners bowl possibly as no 2 legspinners are the same, and have the same action.

I was happy to see the wickets taken by afridi for pakistan. He took 6 for about 38. The aussies had no clue. After the match asked why his improvement, he said that as Abdul Qadir is on the management/coaching team, he picked his brain and learnt a lot. He seems to have a very difficult googly to spot. He also seemed to throw in what looked like two orthodox off spinners with a the same run up of his leg spinners. I think he got 2 wickets with that.

Dave I wonder whether you could include the grips of grimmett and o'reilly on your website on legspin. I do not think there would be copyright problems as these are not being used for money making, but purely for educational reasons. I tried to find the Benaud grip,and the MacGill one with no luck though.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I would have to credit this thread for my sons recent improvement as a bowler. It coincided with the end of the season where I hadn't coached him for weeks and just let him do his own thing , which is good from time to time, but he ended up losing his line and sidespin.
But since I found this site and re-read Grimmett and Philpott, I have taken a whole new approach to his coaching and it is paying dividends, he bowled his indoor coach today with his third delivery.
I am finding it a lot harder to play him as well, trying to drive him on the front foot takes better footwork than mine. But playing him from the crease isn't that easy either, he gets real zip off the wicket lately despite the fact he looks slow through the air, you dont realise the nip in his bowling untill you have to make a decision with a bat in your hand.
I am working on uploading some video of him soon.
 
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