Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hi there,,, I am having consistency problems.

I bowl leg spin, and yesterday i had a net session with my team, but i wasnt very consistent.

Either wide down the leg side, or short. I have been trying to rotate my shoulders in the follow through just like the overseas pro at my club told me to.

Any ideas??
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Basit770;353363 said:
My post about consistency seems to have gotten lost among this big thread.

I'm having consistency problems when i bowl in nets, its either wide or short.

Any tips guys??
Click to expand...
Welcome
the two worst co-ordinates for the legspinner short and wide of leg. Short is never good unless on purpose for some very rare purpose and wide of leg is only good if you can spin it a long way. There is no point bowling a topspinner down legside. Most legspinners keep that line for their big spinner.
I dont know if you have gone beyond bowling at targets but all bowlers should from time to time. I suppose some people would say just pitch it up and get it on the stumps. I find if you think spin up and in fact do spin up you wont pitch short, that is important and also if you try too hard to spin the ball without getting the sequence right you will underpitch. Trying to bowl too fast can cause direction problems.
Just remember it is preferably for the legspinner to bowl too full rather than too short and wide of off stump rather than leg. As a rough guide a good length for a legspinner around here is about three yards in front of the batsman and on the stumps this varies a lot though depending on lots of factors. I think dave had some advice for you a couple of pages back.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Basit770;353102 said:
Hi there,,, I am having consistency problems.

I bowl leg spin, and yesterday i had a net session with my team, but i wasnt very consistent.

Either wide down the leg side, or short. I have been trying to rotate my shoulders in the follow through just like the overseas pro at my club told me to.

Any ideas??
Click to expand...

The two worst co-ordinates for the legspinner short and wide of leg. Short is never good unless on purpose for some very rare purpose and wide of leg is only good if you can spin it a long way. There is no point bowling a topspinner down legside. Most legspinners keep that line for their big spinner.
I dont know if you have gone beyond bowling at targets but all bowlers should from time to time. I suppose some people would say just pitch it up and get it on the stumps. I find if you think spin up and in fact do spin up you wont pitch short, that is important and also if you try too hard to spin the ball without getting the sequence right you will underpitch. Trying to bowl too fast can cause direction problems.
Just remember it is preferably for the legspinner to bowl too full rather than too short and wide of off stump rather than leg. As a rough guide a good length for a legspinner around here is about three yards in front of the batsman and on the stumps this varies a lot though.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hi Guys,

I found this forum when I started searching for a solution to blisters on my spinning finger. Didn't find a solution for that yet, but this thread has helped me get the wrist position properly so that I'm turning my legbreaks now instead of bowling the topspinners like I did earlier. I still have to get it to turn consistently, but atleast I can tell as soon as I release whether it will turn: meaning, that when I want to turn it but can't, atleast I know what is the mistake. (Used to turn it a mile with the tennis ball, but rarely got to bowl with the leather ball).

Interesting discussion here and here's my first contribution to it:
I've heard someone (probably Bishen singh bedi of the Indian spin troika) say that there are four dimensions for a spinner - turn, nip, bounce, flight- If a bowler can control three of the four, he'll be successful.

And I will try to bring in a different point of view to the discussion as a middle order batsmen who encounters spinners most of the time.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Basit, how much do you practice and are you messing around with the variations? If so give up on the variations and work on your leg break with 100% committment. Analyse what you do, try and film yourself with a camera phone and see what it is you're doing wrong. There's so many small things that you might not be getting right that have a massive affect on final outcome.

Now here's a radical departure from me and the others may disagree with what I'm now going to suggest. Maybe bowl seam up for a while and not try and spin it. Just bowl nice and easy and slow just so that you get a good action and a smooth run in. As Macca says get yourself a target (I use another ball) and try and get your accuracy improved so that it lands on or near the target ball and have it placed on the off-stump line. Then vary the speed of your deliveries, the length and the flight. Maybe do this for a few weeks until you reckon there's an improvement and you can almost hit the stumps or go over the top of them 6 or 7 times out of 10.

While you're doing that still keep flicking and spinning the ball and any thing else from hand to hand and from an outstretched arm inwards to your chest so that you keep your wrist supple and develop a good flick.

What do you reckon Macca and Saddo a good plan or is this flawed do your think?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Basit770;353363 said:
My post about consistency seems to have gotten lost among this big thread.

I'm having consistency problems when i bowl in nets, its either wide or short.

Any tips guys??
Click to expand...

Just a couple, if you are consistently bowling short and wide, it looks like you might (1) going too round arm and/or (2) trying to bowl too fast.

I've seen bowlers over the years start off each spell in nets or otherwise with a few that they try to land on the spot, before putting extra effort into spinning the ball.(more shoulder, more followthrough, more wrist and finger flick etc)
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave I tidied up the flipper story and put it in the one word doc. I sent you another email with the update. It is half finished but I keep finding more stuff. I have to find out more about backspin/underspin and its effect on flight as well as some more history stuff.
One big bit of evidence though that Grimmett did not bowl a backspinner much is that Bradman in his chapter on legspin in the art of cricket , he explains the effect of leg, off, and topspin on drift and drop but then says that " no bowler in cricket can impart enough backspin to affect the flight of the ball" ! He is talking after he retired and sounds like a man who never saw a flipper because as we know the backspin on the flipper causes crazy swing and flight. Bradman played in the same club, state and national teams as Grimmett whilst he was developing the flipper.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

hi

i'm trying to start bowling leg spin over the summer but just can't get it going at all.

my main problem is that the ball is just floating up very high barely reaching the the other end, i'm trying to follow through more but it ain't making a difference.

i'm trying to bowl out the back of the hand a bit i dunno if this is a problem, i doubt it considering the googly can be bowled like this

its frustrating as a i am bowling fairly straight its just this that is letting everything down
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I reckon I've got the slider at last - it just seems to be a natural progression from the leg break. I've been waking around with a ball flicking it Flipper style a la Grimmetts mystery ball so it top spins. At the same time I'm alternating with a flicking the standard grip further and further round and today I realised I was doing it out of the back of my hand and gave it a go and it seemed to work and this evening I threw a few Grimmettesque over - spinning flippers and they went well. In the short term I'll just keep flicking the wrist to get a real natural feel for it and maybe look at both of these after Sept and try and develop them for next season?

The learning curve that I've gone through in the last month has been enormous, if I bowl now I just naturally bowl Leg Breaks it is in such an exponential difference between now and say April.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Nesh can you bowl fairly decent medium pace? As in straight? The thing is all of you that have said that you've got problems with your bowling have all got to accept that it's going to take hour upon hour of practicing. Have you looked at my blog see link below? Have a look through that. Another key thing that some of us on here would recommend would be to buy or borrow from your local library Peter Philpotts 'The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling'. Read that.

But in the short term - you've got to stop bowling out of the back of your hand. It's got to come out of the front of your hand and off the 3rd finger. It's the 3rd finger that's going to put the spin on it. I wouldn't worry about it being loopy as that will just improve as you put the hours in practicing. Try and and practice on your own as much as you can so that you can focus 100% on what you're doing.

If you're saying that you can't get the ball the full 22 yards - how old are you? If you're 14 or over I'd say not to worry and that it will come with practice. If you can get someone to make a video of you bowling and upload it to youtube and we'll have a look at your run in and bowling action. There are so many things you could be doing wrong and it maybe months if not years before you get the whole thing together. What you've chosen to do here - wrist spin bowling - is the most difficult discipline in cricket and you've got to be prepared to put the hours in. But when it comes good and you've got your Leg Break and another variation or two if you stick at it you can look forward to becoming the best bowler in your club/team.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah this is bizarre - why is everyone in denial of all these potential variations, why does Benaud claim to have invented the Flipper when 10 years or so before Grimmett had not only invented Benauds bog standard "Club cricket" version but had moved on to look at the Flipper variations including over-spinning Flipper that the likes of us are working on as we speak and as you've informed us many of these greats see as being physically impossible and yet Clarrie did all this in the 1930's and 40's!! It's madness or maybe ignorance?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Basit770;353363 said:
My post about consistency seems to have gotten lost among this big thread.

I'm having consistency problems when i bowl in nets, its either wide or short.

Any tips guys??
Click to expand...

Basit, Clarrie Grimmett would never bowl in the nets. He said that it was something a batsman does and it's use to bowlers is limited and I'm inclined to agree. Batsmen don't bat the same in the nets as they're allowed to have another go and another. For bowlers it's potentially demoralising. I'd suggest finding a bit of open space - a flat field, artificial wicket and stick a couple of stumps up and set a target in line with the off-stump about 3 yards in front of your stump and bowl on to the target using only your leg break.

I used to use a bit of hardboard and use hockey balls see this - Wrist Spin Bowling: More practice ideas - Leg Spin Bowling

Have a look at my blog see the link below and look at the resources page and look at the David Freedman video with Beau Casson.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I read the bit about the Wrong Wrong Un in Malletts book and to me it sounded as though he was talking about twisting the wrist and arm round further but still keeping the 2 fingers up 2 fingers down grip and not the Flipper grip. So I'm still sticking with the name 'Gipper' as mine's the same principle with the wrist and arm but the release is the Flipper grip/release.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;353383 said:
Hi Guys,

I found this forum when I started searching for a solution to blisters on my spinning finger. Didn't find a solution for that yet, but this thread has helped me get the wrist position properly so that I'm turning my legbreaks now instead of bowling the topspinners like I did earlier. I still have to get it to turn consistently, but atleast I can tell as soon as I release whether it will turn: meaning, that when I want to turn it but can't, atleast I know what is the mistake. (Used to turn it a mile with the tennis ball, but rarely got to bowl with the leather ball).

Interesting discussion here and here's my first contribution to it:
I've heard someone (probably Bishen singh bedi of the Indian spin troika) say that there are four dimensions for a spinner - turn, nip, bounce, flight- If a bowler can control three of the four, he'll be successful.

And I will try to bring in a different point of view to the discussion as a middle order batsmen who encounters spinners most of the time.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear that we helped you out Shrek. Let us know how you get on in your games and yeah definitely chip in with some Middle order batsmans views.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;353108 said:
I reckon I've got the slider at last - it just seems to be a natural progression from the leg break. I've been waking around with a ball flicking it Flipper style a la Grimmetts mystery ball so it top spins. At the same time I'm alternating with a flicking the standard grip further and further round and today I realised I was doing it out of the back of my hand and gave it a go and it seemed to work and this evening I threw a few Grimmettesque over - spinning flippers and they went well. In the short term I'll just keep flicking the wrist to get a real natural feel for it and maybe look at both of these after Sept and try and develop them for next season?

The learning curve that I've gone through in the last month has been enormous, if I bowl now I just naturally bowl Leg Breaks it is in such an exponential difference between now and say April.
Click to expand...

By slider do you mean Philpotts backspinning topspinner and the slider that Jenner demos, sometimes called the Doug Ring slider ? It is just a progression from the legbreak and once mastered as a concept it is not that hard.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;353404 said:
Glad to hear that we helped you out Shrek. Let us know how you get on in your games and yeah definitely chip in with some Middle order batsmans views.
Click to expand...

I'm not playing this weekend although my team is traveling for two games, unfortunately I earn my keeps in the team mainly as a batsman who can save bunch of runs or pull off a couple of good catches at point. So, I wont get a bowl in the match anytime soon, but we did have a double wicket tournament to get some practice on thursday- I got to roll my arm over for two overs - got the batsmen out thrice -

they dont take me too seriously as a bowler and started setting themselves up for a big swing down to midwicket - beat them in flight to get one guy bowled, and two top edges on sweeps. (I wouldn't rate them very high on batting abilities though )

As for the batsmen point of view when facing a spinner - I was advised (and this has served me well over time) that you play a spinner "as late as possible" and "off the backfoot as often as possible"
I remember Shane warne admitted after being hammered in 98-99 tour to india that he didnt remember ever having been cut as often as he was on that tour. So, the slower you are through the air, the more time you give the batsmen to get back to cut and pull. or if it is full enough to nudge him around for singles off the back foot. So, thats 6 off 6 easy pickings without any risk

Did you get players who did that to you a lot ?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah that's the one a la' Jenner and as you say it's a progression of the Leg Break. Mine still breaks towards off but doesn't bounce half as much.

I had a look at the file but I haven't got MS word to open the file. What I'll do is open it tomorrow at work and convert it to word pad or note pad. I'll be able to have a look at it then.

Actually I'll try again now using notepad.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;353383 said:
Hi Guys,

I found this forum when I started searching for a solution to blisters on my spinning finger. Didn't find a solution for that yet, but this thread has helped me get the wrist position properly so that I'm turning my legbreaks now instead of bowling the topspinners like I did earlier. I still have to get it to turn consistently, but atleast I can tell as soon as I release whether it will turn: meaning, that when I want to turn it but can't, atleast I know what is the mistake. (Used to turn it a mile with the tennis ball, but rarely got to bowl with the leather ball).

Interesting discussion here and here's my first contribution to it:
I've heard someone (probably Bishen singh bedi of the Indian spin troika) say that there are four dimensions for a spinner - turn, nip, bounce, flight- If a bowler can control three of the four, he'll be successful.

And I will try to bring in a different point of view to the discussion as a middle order batsmen who encounters spinners most of the time.[/QUOTE

Hi Shrek

Benaud cured his spinning finger problem with " oily calamine lotion BPC '54 and Boracic acid powder" he gives the method on page 127 of his autoboigraphy. I t did not kill him but I am no expert on medicine. You can try some tape with a rough outer surface if you have to bowl. It still hurts .
Click to expand...
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;353113 said:
Yeah that's the one a la' Jenner and as you say it's a progression of the Leg Break. Mine still breaks towards off but doesn't bounce half as much.

I had a look at the file but I haven't got MS word to open the file. What I'll do is open it tomorrow at work and convert it to word pad or note pad. I'll be able to have a look at it then.

Actually I'll try again now using notepad.
Click to expand...

I find if I dont get that slider quite right I get a big legbreak albeit a slower turner and as such is a pretty foolproof ball. When it comes out straight it is a LBW special. Benaud was a master of that ball.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Nesh;353400 said:
hi

i'm trying to start bowling leg spin over the summer but just can't get it going at all.

my main problem is that the ball is just floating up very high barely reaching the the other end, i'm trying to follow through more but it ain't making a difference.

i'm trying to bowl out the back of the hand a bit i dunno if this is a problem, i doubt it considering the googly can be bowled like this

its frustrating as a i am bowling fairly straight its just this that is letting everything down
Click to expand...
Hey Nesh, you sound like an old fashioned back of the hand lobber. Sometimes called a bosie bowler in the olden days. You cant bowl like that anymore and get away with it I am afraid.
If you post some video everyone will give advice I am sure. Basically you need to let the ball go a fraction later and have it come out the front or side of your hand and not the back. Good luck.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca your a genius!

Continuing from yesterday when I said I've been walking around flicking the ball Flipper style over the top of the hand to impart the Top Spin I've been doing it again today and have now started to bowl it and the good news is that I can easily get it up over the 22 yards and keep down the offside, it's a bit loopy as I'm bowling it slow but it turns and it rushes on and it's looking pretty sinister. I may even try it in a game this Sunday as I reckon over the next couple of days I could get it together.

The secret just seems to have been the fact that I've just spent a whole week or so flicking it over the top of my hand. What I'll have to do is film another video with the release action or do we want this kept a secret?

Again this just reinforces the fact that these deliveries have been lost in the mists of time and or they're just seen as being impossible (Jenner & Mallett)? If you think about it just the basic deliveries are shrouded in mystery, how often is it that you come across a Leggie that bowls the whole bag of basic options?

I'm really surprised at how quickly it's come together.

Lastly what is this delivery called other than 'The secret ball'? I reckon we called call it 'The McFlipper' after you Macca!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Woah, lots of stuff to catch up on here.

Nesh said:
my main problem is that the ball is just floating up very high barely reaching the the other end, i'm trying to follow through more but it ain't making a difference.

i'm trying to bowl out the back of the hand a bit i dunno if this is a problem, i doubt it considering the googly can be bowled like this
Click to expand...

You're releasing too early. I used to that.

You might also be a bit weak through the action too; but we would need to see a video to tell that, although you may be able to tell that if you start releasing earlier, as if you drop short(of course it could be caused by other things, such as head position)all the time it could be an indicator of lack of energy through the crease.

Well, a back of the hand release can mean the ball gets tossed higher when compared to a front of the hand delivery. I know my pathetic excuse for a googly gets tossed higher than my leg-break, so much so that it is basically discernible from the moment of release.

Shouldn't be a problem if you are learning to bowl a googly, although you would want to get the trajectory down so the batsmen can't just charge down the wicket and smash you easily(if you are wanting to bowl a leg-break then it is totally wrong). However, if you are wanting to bowl a leg break(and everybody here would say that you should); I would advise you to stop trying to bowl googlies until you've got the leg break worked out, and even after that bowl mostly leg-breaks, as the googly and the leg-break are kind of opposite actions. If you concentrate on the googly action to much it may make you lose your leg break. Dave is really the person to ask about that, as he had a bad case of the so called Googly Syndrome.

Macca said:
You can try some tape with a rough outer surface if you have to bowl. It still hurts .
Click to expand...

I did that a bit, although most of the time I took a rest until the blisters were healed to the point to where it was not that uncomfortable to bowl, they were far from fully healed though. My fingers were in various states of blister throughout the entire summer. I don't know if that is medically advisable or not.

It may become less of a problem. I haven't had blisters for ages; the skin on my spinning fingers has become hard and tough. But that might not be true of everyone though: I mean Benaud had terrible trouble.

Now on to my net sessions report:
I had two short sessions in the nest this week(for those who haven't been reading this thread recently: this is my first serious bowling after having a four week lay-off with a sprained middle finger). The first was a bowl with no batsmen present and it pretty much followed the exceptions I had for my first bowl back; it was all over the place: short, wide, turn-less. My leg-spin was completely out of sorts(I did bowl a nice seamer though).

The second, with a batsmen(beat him a couple of times)went quite, well I thought. I was basically back to pre-injury form. My wrist flick was a bit lacking, so my spin was a bit weak. But other than that I was bowling like before the injury.

In all, I have considered this to be a pretty productive week.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Well that topspinner was called a " flicker" by Bradman and the other players. Flipper does not become widely used until after Benaud and then only referring to the backspinner.
Mallett and Jenner are not aware of its existence. Philpott is aware and so were lots of former players like Keith Miller. Just thinking about it Miller was Philpotts first captain in club cricket and miller was great mates with Pepper. Pepper lived the rest of his life in England and showed his flipper to quite a few English guys after he retired and some of them are still alive so they would know. Pepper had several flipper balls. backspinner, topspinner and it sounds like he could bowl it as a offbreak as well.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;353439 said:
I did that a bit, although most of the time I took a rest until the blisters were healed to the point to where it was not that uncomfortable to bowl, they were far from fully healed though. My fingers were in various states of blister throughout the entire summer. I don't know if that is medically advisable or not.
QUOTE]


Another thing on the tape is, you can use it as a preventative measure. I worked out instead of overbowling without tape in the nets all week and then being blistered for the weekend.
I started putting tape on in the nets, even when I wasn't really sore, and then having the finger ready for the game. It also prepares you and gets you used to the tape if you have to use it. Dont do this all the time though but it can help save your finger.
With the tape on, it is hard to get what Grimmett called "sympathy for the ball". He always carried a bit of pumice in his kit and polished his skin on his fingers before an innings. But you do get used to the tape, some might even consider it cheating? It depends on how much you bowl too , of course.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;353383 said:
Hi Guys,



Interesting discussion here and here's my first contribution to it:
I've heard someone (probably Bishen singh bedi of the Indian spin troika) say that there are four dimensions for a spinner - turn, nip, bounce, flight- If a bowler can control three of the four, he'll be successful.

QUOTE]
Trust Bishen Bedi to condense it down to such simple wisdom. I was lucky enough to have seen the troika in action a few times.
Chandrachaker was one of the best bowlers I ever saw. He was different to all legspinners I have ever seen. It would have been impossible for the average club cricketer to even get bat on ball against his bowling.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;353110 said:
I read the bit about the Wrong Wrong Un in Malletts book and to me it sounded as though he was talking about twisting the wrist and arm round further but still keeping the 2 fingers up 2 fingers down grip and not the Flipper grip. So I'm still sticking with the name 'Gipper' as mine's the same principle with the wrist and arm but the release is the Flipper grip/release.
Click to expand...

Mallett gets that wrong too, he has not read Grimmetts 1948 book closely. Grimmett started with an iverson style flick with a googly action and got a legbreak instead of the offbreak. But he abandons that method and he says he applied the finger clicking spin that produces the flipper to a wrongun delivery style and found it produced a legbreak. He called it his wrong wrongun. At first he thought this might be the best way to deliver the flipper style finger clicking method. But it was a bit of an evolutionary dead end ,which is one of the reasons it took him 12 years, he was not sure how to use his discovery . He did not see great potential in the backspinning flipper and it was Dooland that really worked it up to what we call a flipper these days.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Basit770;353102 said:
Hi there,,, I am having consistency problems.

I bowl leg spin, and yesterday i had a net session with my team, but i wasnt very consistent.

Either wide down the leg side, or short. I have been trying to rotate my shoulders in the follow through just like the overseas pro at my club told me to.

Any ideas??
Click to expand...
Basit,
Can u post a bowling video of yours of front view(keepers end).
Did u started bowling in the nets after some gap period...

Virender
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just had another 1/2 an hour bowling 'The Flicker' but also bowling the other variations of the Flipper. I reckon I've got it down to 5 distinctly different variations all of which I reckon have got applications in the game and most of which I could actually use in a game. So here they are going round the loop

(1). Your "bog standard" Flipper as demo'd by Messr's Warne and Jenner on the internet, using index and middle finger and Thumb to put backspin on the ball.
(2). Your Clarrie Grimmett Flipper which is much the same ball but you use 4 fingers and the thumb. This ball because I think you have much firmer grip on the ball you can bowl faster with more spin and you get a lot of swing with it (In Swing to RH bat).
(3). Now twist the wrist 90 degrees so that the palm of the hand is facing the bat. This then spins out of the hand spinning clockwise and is an off-break ball.
(4) . Turn the wrist another 90 degrees so that your little finger is closer to the bat and your thumb is pointing to your face. This is the 'Over-spinning' Grimmett secret ball that everyone is in denial of - This is 'The Flicker' and it looks like a killer of a delivery!
(5) Now rotate the hand 270 degrees anti-clockwise (You have to twist your arm) and you have 'The Gipper'. Which is like a Leg Break.

Again I have to credit so much to the fact that I've been clicking the ball in my hand over the top all week and this has just given me a real feel for the delivery and made it so that my wrist it seems is far more supple, the version (3) delivery which I've never been able to do well tonight was working exceptionally well, just because of the each at which it came out of the hand with the flick. I'm staggered at how good all these deliveries are and especially 'The Flicker'. I reckon with a few more weeks working on The Flicker it is going to be a killer ball used in conjunction with my Leg Break!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

QUOTE]
But you do get used to the tape, some might even consider it cheating? It depends on how much you bowl too , of course.[/QUOTE]


I had the impression you could not use plaster/tape. Or is it that you can bowl with tape, but if the batsman opposes to it you have to remove it?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;353254 said:
Mallett gets that wrong too, he has not read Grimmetts 1948 book closely. Grimmett started with an iverson style flick with a googly action and got a legbreak instead of the offbreak. But he abandons that method and he says he applied the finger clicking spin that produces the flipper to a wrongun delivery style and found it produced a legbreak. He called it his wrong wrongun. At first he thought this might be the best way to deliver the flipper style finger clicking method. But it was a bit of an evolutionary dead end ,which is one of the reasons it took him 12 years, he was not sure how to use his discovery . He did not see great potential in the backspinning flipper and it was Dooland that really worked it up to what we call a flipper these days.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you put us right on that - is that in Taking Wickets? I like the sound of Wrong Wrong Un.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Nesh;353400 said:
hi

i'm trying to start bowling leg spin over the summer but just can't get it going at all.

my main problem is that the ball is just floating up very high barely reaching the the other end, i'm trying to follow through more but it ain't making a difference.

i'm trying to bowl out the back of the hand a bit i dunno if this is a problem, i doubt it considering the googly can be bowled like this

its frustrating as a i am bowling fairly straight its just this that is letting everything down
Click to expand...


I think you have to go over the process that dave went through. You have to start hand to hand , and hand to chest , then graduate to under arm, then round arm.. and stop there if you are grimmett, but if you are a mere mortal continue to overarm. Start the latter over very short distances, and progressively increase the distance. Over a short distance you can see the way the seam is moving, and you get a fair idea whether it is a leg break/topspinner or googly, and your mind sort of gets used to what you are doing.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The flicker , like Philpott says, seems more of an offspinners ball, but Bradman says Grimmett disguised it with a turning of the wrist after delivery.

So as soon as you flick it you have to make your wrist assume a more leg break looking finish to the delivery.

The thumb points up in delivering the ball and then quickly you must turn the wrist and make the thumb point down. That is how I read Bradmans description.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;353267 said:
Macca I've just done a big entry on my blog about the Flicker, hopefully it doesn't use too much of your work. Have a look at it and if you think it's a bit too much of your work let me know and I'll remove it. I still haven't looked at the stuff you sent yesterday as I had a bit of a funny turn here last night on the computer - I though I'd had a stroke and was on the verge of dying, so had to go to the Doc's today to check it out as I felt rough all day at work. Turns out that it was stress related and the fact that I'd had a massive caffeine over-dose and as a consequence suffered a massive bout of heart palpatations. It scared the s**t out of me that's for sure! But consequently I was somewhat pre-occupied at work and didn't think to look at the email.
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Hope you are better. Must be your opponents doing voodoo on you, that's their only way. They have no chance though, Grimmett is protecting you from up above.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;353383 said:
Hi Guys,

I found this forum when I started searching for a solution to blisters on my spinning finger. Didn't find a solution for that yet
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Welcome. I wonder how many of you got blisters. I never got one but I spin with my middle finger, and there I have a big callous from the way I use my pens. It is either that or I am really a poor spinner!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;353258 said:
I'm glad you put us right on that - is that in Taking Wickets? I like the sound of Wrong Wrong Un.
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He does mention it in his 1930 book but at that stage he is only 2 years into his experimenting and he has discovered the finger clicking spin but has not worked out how to apply it to overarm bowling and he seems to think that bowling it like the gipper might be the best use to put it too.
He was still working it up to 22 yards at this stage. He does not bowl it untill 1940 in a big game and by then his career was nearly over. He had been bowling in first class cricket for 30 years by then! That would be like someone starting in 1979 and be still going now! And he never bowled a no-ball in all that time.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

shrek;353408 said:
I'm not playing this weekend although my team is traveling for two games, unfortunately I earn my keeps in the team mainly as a batsman who can save bunch of runs or pull off a couple of good catches at point. So, I wont get a bowl in the match anytime soon, but we did have a double wicket tournament to get some practice on thursday- I got to roll my arm over for two overs - got the batsmen out thrice -

they dont take me too seriously as a bowler and started setting themselves up for a big swing down to midwicket - beat them in flight to get one guy bowled, and two top edges on sweeps. (I wouldn't rate them very high on batting abilities though )

As for the batsmen point of view when facing a spinner - I was advised (and this has served me well over time) that you play a spinner "as late as possible" and "off the backfoot as often as possible"
I remember Shane warne admitted after being hammered in 98-99 tour to india that he didnt remember ever having been cut as often as he was on that tour. So, the slower you are through the air, the more time you give the batsmen to get back to cut and pull. or if it is full enough to nudge him around for singles off the back foot. So, thats 6 off 6 easy pickings without any risk

Did you get players who did that to you a lot ?
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Fortunately something I've not come across yet but it makes sense. I think If I was faced with this I might turn to much faster Flippers and bowl them as Yorkers which turn a little towards off and mix them up with Top Spinners and Lobby Flippers which drop in and almost stop. Not sure.... I'd have to do it in a game and see how it comes off?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;353261 said:
Was it Philpott that said that he'd shown it to kids in training sessions but wasn't able to get it down the track for the full 22 yards?
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Jenner wrote that in the email he sent me. I dont think Philpott bowled the flipper, at least at test level. Benaud says in his autobiography that Philpott could spin the ball more than Warne. He says the same about Sincock. Wether they spun it as fast he does not say, but that is the big difference , Warne was a big and fast spinner of the ball.
But Philpott could get the ball to audibly hum or buzz and that is the best anecdotal evidence of a big spinner. If you start to hear the ball buzz like a bee then you are getting close to first class selection.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Is there anything to be had from gradually roughing up your skin pre-season so that you create minor blisters that then heal and repeat again and again so that the skin gets harder. I know that when I first started to play Guitar (Bass Guitar) I had crap guitar with a really high 'Action' and this caused real problems and soreness with the tips of my fingers so what I took to doing was basically roughing up the tips of my fingers at any opportunity I had - dragging then across walls and any hard surface and eventually the tips of the fingers became hard. Similarly with Surfing - I spent a couple of summers surfing back in the 80's and what more or less happened was when I got there in May I took my shoes off hardly ever to put them on again until November. By Mid June I was more or less 'Free-running' a la Parqure style' across the rocks like a goat in bare feet. I could run across gravel car parks by October and when I got back to Civi street and started to have baths again I must have lost 5mm of old dead skin within a week of my feet being washed with soap and hot water!

I reckon there may be some mileage by using as Macca says something rough like a pumice stone and get the skin hardened prior to the season?
 
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